ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[overedge]

Tom Z is putting a lot of people at risk IMO. Even with all those precautions in place, all it takes is for one person to have had contact with someone with the v*r*s to bring it into the rink. And carriers of the v*r*s can be asymptomatic as we know.

 

[kwanatic]

I also have a suspicion that when skating does resume and if Beijing does go on as planned, it's going to open the door back up for older ladies skaters who don't have quads and who had gone through puberty before the break. Adjusting to a body that has gone through puberty is one thing. Having an extended break from the ice is one thing. Having to contend with those issues together is going to be something else. Technique-wise, it's appeared to me that for the young ladies doing the quads, it's been dependent on having a pre-pubescent body. I'm thinking that puberty+long break from the ice could be a quad jump killer with those skills unlikely to return quickly if at all. If those girls can't do quads anymore going into Beijing, then that changes who has a chance to make Olympic teams and podiums.

It sucks so badly because I was really looking forward to watching Trusova, Shcherbakova, Kostornaia, Kihira, You, Valieva, Liu, etc. Not only to watch them battle it out for titles for this quadrennial, but also to use them as a case study for the more difficult jumps in women's skating. These "Beijing 2022" girls are our first generation of skaters with multiple quads/triple axels in the field. It is important to see how they progress and whether it is possible for them to maintain those quads/axels through puberty and into adulthood. All of them are 14-16 years old except for Kihira, who turns 18 in July. From what we've seen in the past, most female skaters tend to go through height/weight/body changes between the ages 16-18 years old. The next two years are crucial for observing how their technique holds up, if injuries develop that could be tied to the training of these jumps, if they are capable of executing the jumps with a post-pubescent body, etc.

This "situation" has thrown a wrench into that observation. The lack of training, extended time away from the ice, etc. will have to factor in to the results. Realistically looking at it, we may not get back to a normal season until the second half of 2021, or even into 2022 which leads to the possibility that the Olympics could be pushed back a year. If it turns out the pre-pubescent body theory is true for some skaters with these jumps, it's very possible they could end up missing their window to win the major titles.

Of course this doesn't just apply to the younger skaters. The "missing their window" possibility can apply to the older ones too. Skaters who were working their way back (Chen, Turzynbaeva, Gold), reworking their jumps (Medvedeva, Miyahara) or hitting their stride (Tuktamysheva, Bell, Tennell) may lose their momentum and not be able to get it back in time for the Olympics.

Everyone will be affected by this. No telling what the field will look like when things finally get back to normal.

 

[aftershocks]

Who knows what's going to happen going forward. It's very much a take it day-by-day approach at this point. People in all walks of endeavor are being impacted adversely. I wish all the skaters well.

I would take issue with TomZ mentioning !Trump! in any sentence having anything to do with crediting him with leadership concerning the current crisis or in fact leadership in any capacity.

As far as the Winter Olympics 2022, the Summer Olympics has already been moved to Summer 2021, so I have doubts the IOC will go forward with the Winter Olympics in 2022, as planned. I will be surprised if they do because the ongoing disruptions to athletes will impact their fitness and readiness. In particular, if there's no regular 2020-2021 figure skating season, the normal Olympics cycle is already adversely impacted. But IOC officials are probably waiting to make decisions based on taking things slowly, and seeing how everything develops over time.

ETA:
I love that Dick Button is keeping himself fit in anticipation of skating happening again soon. The punchline brings a smile to my face. Thank you Uncle Dick!

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[taz'smum]

Italy and Spain originally said that they would be closed for international travel until the end of the year.
Now it seems, Italy at least, will be removing travel restrictions from June 3, wow!!
Italy to lift travel restrictions as lockdown eases

Things are starting to look a little brighter!

 

[Orm Irian]

Italy and Spain originally said that they would be closed for international travel until the end of the year.
Now it seems, Italy at least, will be removing travel restrictions from June 3, wow!!
Italy to lift travel restrictions as lockdown eases

Things are starting to look a little brighter!

That's nuts. They're still having upwards of 700 new cases per day!

 

[Deleted member 221]

Now it seems, Italy at least, will be removing travel restrictions from June 3, wow!!
Italy to lift travel restrictions as lockdown eases

Things are starting to look a little brighter!

This is the best news I've read in a very long time!

That's nuts. They're still having upwards of 700 new cases per day!

The vast majority of the country, including the entire south, has been relatively unaffected. This is yet another example in Italy's long history of the north oppressing the south, leaving the south in even more dire economic ruin to protect the health of the wealthy north. It's time for the #stayathome crowd to SUCK IT. You are free to stay at home. You have no right to tell others to continue to do so. Regions like Sicily, Calabria, Basilicata, and Puglia - some of the poorest in Italy - have remained shuttered for months to protect the weathly Milanese elite (and to keep them out because they wouldn't follow the regional directives that required them to stay at home). These regions, which are already teetering on abject poverty and are some of the absolute poorest in Europe, would be in total collapse without a summer season. LET FREEDOM RING! Can't wait to visit Italy this summer and inject as much money as I can into their battered economy!

 

[misskarne]

Italy and Spain originally said that they would be closed for international travel until the end of the year.
Now it seems, Italy at least, will be removing travel restrictions from June 3, wow!!
Italy to lift travel restrictions as lockdown eases

Things are starting to look a little brighter!

How stupid, they're still having hundreds of new cases! This will just make things worse!

 

[Bigbird]

This is the best news I've read in a very long time!



The vast majority of the country, including the entire south, has been relatively unaffected. This is yet another example in Italy's long history of the north oppressing the south, leaving the south in even more dire economic ruin to protect the health of the wealthy north. It's time for the #stayathome crowd to SUCK IT. You are free to stay at home. You have no right to tell others to continue to do so. Regions like Sicily, Calabria, Basilicata, and Puglia - some of the poorest in Italy - have remained shuttered for months to protect the weathly Milanese elite (and to keep them out because they wouldn't follow the regional directives that required them to stay at home). These regions, which are already teetering on abject poverty and are some of the absolute poorest in Europe, would be in total collapse without a summer season. LET FREEDOM RING! Can't wait to visit Italy this summer and inject as much money as I can into their battered economy!

Do visitors know these facts? What will prevent spread from North to South? The disruption of one season would be unfortunate but it could prove catastrophic to open too soon. What if one these athletes was seriously affected?

EDIT: Wait for an approved vaccine or treatment method.

 

[Deleted member 221]

EDIT: Wait for an approved vaccine or treatment method.

There's nothing stopping those who wish to do so from doing exactly that.

 

[Bigbird]

There's nothing stopping those who wish to do so from doing exactly that.

I wonder would the athletes be penalized if they choose to do just that? Loosing ranking points and all that. It just seems ...off.

 

[Debbie S]

Isn't northern Italy where the skaters train, and where Lombardia Trophy would be held?

I don't expect to have a Challenger season...too many issues across the world and esp given that most skaters aren't back to training yet. We'll see what the ISU signals about the JGP/GP over the next couple months.

ETA: Just saw the thread below about Nepela and the Slovak JGP being canceled. I expect more announcements about early fall comps will be forthcoming.

 

[Orm Irian]

Isn't northern Italy where the skaters train, and where Lombardia Trophy would be held?

Yes - Lombardy was one of the worse-hit regions in Italy - but sensibly they didn't apply to run Lombardia Trophy this season. There's no Challenger scheduled in the US either.

I think it's possible a few Challenger events may end up happening, though not all, and it does depend on travel restrictions and whether a second wave of the lurgi hits in relevant regions. An event like ACI might be able to run (singles at least) with just the international skaters based in Ontario, though it would be a small field. Beijing is most likely toast though. Because there's no final that Challenger competitors are trying to get into it wouldn't matter so much if some events run and some don't. But if one JGP/GP event is cancelled I think they all should be, for equity reasons. There's no way to wrangle the numbers to create a finals field that won't be unfair to someone and an enormous hassle for everyone. If the final can even happen itself.

ETA: I guess that would be one way to run a reduced event equitably, though: cancel the final and treat the GPs like Challengers, just without the miniscule cash prize for whoever comes top of the score list.

 

[ostile17]

There's nothing stopping those who wish to do so from doing exactly that.

As an Italian I can tell your posts have very little to do with FS and all with retorical Italian political issues. Maybe you want to build a wall between North ans South while you are at it? Also exactly how does shutting your so-called poorest regions protects the "wealthy" Northeners?

Anyway, reopening the borders on June 3rd, and without a quarantine required for those coming into the country, just when things are starting to get better, is plain idiotic and irresponsible!

 

[Bigbird]

As an Italian I can tell your posts have very little to do with FS and all with retorical Italian political issues. Maybe you want to build a wall between North ans South while you are at it? Also exactly how does shutting your so-called poorest regions protects the "wealthy" Northeners?

Anyway, reopening the borders on June 3rd, and without a quarantine required for those coming into the country, just when things are starting to get better, is plain idiotic and irresponsible!

Got to agree with that.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I love Italy, from the Alps to Sicily, and have little tolerance for "regionalismo." However, the virus was concentrated in the north, and the south was shut only after the north failed to adhere to the initial rules. The entire south of the country is having single-digit new cases, with many regions having zero. There's no justification for keeping the entire country shut, especially when the south is in dire economic conditions. You'll get your "wall" (which is the opposite of what I want) a lot sooner if you keep the south shuttered.

And, yes, the skaters (to bring this back on topic) all train in the north. I was excited when Marina Piredda popped up because her surname is (usually) Sardinian, but it must be ancestry since she was born in Trentino.

 

[taz'smum]

Anyway, reopening the borders on June 3rd, and without a quarantine required for those coming into the country, just when things are starting to get better, is plain idiotic and irresponsible!

From what I've read, if you arrive in Italy from outside the Schengan/EU, you will be subject to a quarantine.

 

[AxelAnnie]

IMO -it is all a cluster fcuk. As near as I can tell, no one has correct data or information (and I am talking about the experts!). I do know that sheltering in place has flattened the spread. I think we should keep doing that until we know what is what. As to work, (my business has gone down 84% since this started), people are creative and will find ways to work. But it doesn't help for people to be stupid (like the barber who flaunted the rules and now has the virus).

And, as a die-hard Libertarian, it kills me to say this, but the Government(s) are just going to have to take care of us. Period. That is their job.

My best example of STUPID is the Mayor of Los Angeles, Gil Garcetti, (who has aspirations to become President) opened the beaches in Los Angeles...............with a caveat..... people have to only be on the wet sand. If you have been to a beach, you know you have to walk across the dry sand to get to the wet sand......but at LA beaches that is illegal. What is wrong with people! I would like to think that the people going to the beach would be smart enough to take care of themselves by social distancing. But, geesh!

 

[Dobre]

I think we have to stop thinking of events within our normal frame of reference. (For a while).

Maybe the ISU could help fund & support livestream access to locally held events as rinks & skaters get underway? I know "international" is part of what makes the ISU the ISU, but it seems normal requirements (per country limitations, international judging panels, ISU certified technical specialists, world standing points, etc) are probably going to have to take a back seat for a while in the name of a greater cause: providing athletes with the opportunity to compete and maintaining a fanbase for the sport by offering safe viewing opportunities.

 

[MacMadame]

My best example of STUPID is the Mayor of Los Angeles, Gil Garcetti, (who has aspirations to become President) opened the beaches in Los Angeles...............with a caveat..... people have to only be on the wet sand. If you have been to a beach, you know you have to walk across the dry sand to get to the wet sand......but at LA beaches that is illegal.

That's not the rule. The rule is you can go into the ocean to perform activities but you can't squat. So you can surf and kayak and swim but you can't lay your towel down and sunbathe (or picnic or otherwise stay in one place).

L.A. County beaches reopen with restrictions: Here’s what you can and can’t do

Los Angeles County beaches reopened Wednesday morning for limited use after being closed six week ago because of the escalating coronavirus crisis. In allowing people to go back to to the shoreline…

ktla.com

 

[Carolla5501]

Honestly I think this entire thread just needs to be closed because there’s nothing useful just a lot a lot political posturing and wanna be epidemiologists

 

[Miezekatze]

I think local skating events should be possible in the near future.

Here in Germany first local horseback riding competitions have gotten the permission to hold events (so far only for professional riders, no amateur events) with 100 people per competition day and there 4 or 5 of them already.

They have per competition day:

• 40 riders
• 40 accompanying people (I guess one per rider)
• 20 other personnel: judges, veterinarians, stewards and the like

Except for competitors during their ride, everybody has to wear masks. Check in is contact-less, no catering, time slots on where to enter the preparation area (up to 5 or 6 riders may be riding on it at the same time), no victory ceremony, results will be read out and publlished afterwards, no spectators, live streaming over the internet.

I'd guess you could hold small local skating events with about the same system, since organizational and in terms of how many people you need I think the sports are relatively similar.

Of course so far the main advantage of riding, is that it's outdoor. Indoor events aren't allowed here yet.

The only other sport that starting having competitions here is major league soccer.

But I'd guess tennis and golf could start local events without viewers relatively soon too.

But I think everything involving even national travel will be a lot more difficult to restart and also the number of competitors will probably be limited for quite a while.

I'd guess small local events could help skaters get in shape for international events even in a season that starts very late.

 

[MacMadame]

But I think everything involving even national travel will be a lot more difficult to restart and also the number of competitors will probably be limited for quite a while.

Another issue is that many of the skaters on the JGP are minors. Most of the skaters at local comps are minors.

So limiting who can be there for local comps might not work. I think most parents would want to be there. Even if you limit it to 1 parent, what are single parents going to do with the rest of their kids? It gets tricky when it's minors.

 

[misskarne]

Another consideration are the skaters who train away from home (this really occurred to me last night when Brendan was posting on his insta). Someone like Brendan will have to prepare for the season in a totally different training situation. There's no way he'll be able to go to Russia or to the US anytime soon. He'll be training here, with different ice time arrangements and different coaching to what he had planned. For a lot of the smaller country skaters, this is going to be an even bigger disadvantage than normal if they have had to go home during this, as they may now be caught there.

 

[overedge]

The ISU is re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic by worrying about the big international competitions.

Skating at the local and regional levels is going to look a lot different when or if rinks reopen. I wouldn't be surprised if many clubs or rinks go out of business. With the numbers of skaters that will likely be allowed on the ice at any one time - a lot less than before - training and competing is going to become either a lot more expensive or a lot more inaccessible. Or maybe both. So participation numbers in the sport are probably going to go down.

I was reading an article a few days ago that discussed how, with the v*r*s closing down gyms and other recreational facilities, people are discovering that they can stay in shape with running, hiking, and other outdoor activities where social distance can be maintained. This article speculated that people's leisure/sport preferences may change significantly in the future. So that's something that could also steer people away from sports like skating.

The ISU needs to be figuring out what to do about these possibilities, which are going to affect the sport in a big way, and not in a good way. Whether it can hold JGP events or not in the next couple of months should be the least of the ISU's worries.

 

[Colonel Green]

The ISU is re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic by worrying about the big international competitions.

Skating at the local and regional levels is going to look a lot different when or if rinks reopen. I wouldn't be surprised if many clubs or rinks go out of business. With the numbers of skaters that will likely be allowed on the ice at any one time - a lot less than before - training and competing is going to become either a lot more expensive or a lot more inaccessible. Or maybe both. So participation numbers in the sport are probably going to go down.

I was reading an article a few days ago that discussed how, with the v*r*s closing down gyms and other recreational facilities, people are discovering that they can stay in shape with running, hiking, and other outdoor activities where social distance can be maintained. This article speculated that people's leisure/sport preferences may change significantly in the future. So that's something that could also steer people away from sports like skating.

The ISU needs to be figuring out what to do about these possibilities, which are going to affect the sport in a big way, and not in a good way. Whether it can hold JGP events or not in the next couple of months should be the least of the ISU's worries.

That sort of stuff is completely outside the ISU’s ability to do anything one way or another.

 

[overedge]

That sort of stuff is completely outside the ISU’s ability to do anything one way or another.

They should be planning for its impacts. Fewer opportunities to train and fewer participants is going to have to change how the sport as a whole operates.

 

[starrynight]

Well, in Australia all citizens are banned from international travel.

So no one from here is going anywhere. Certainly not for a skating competition.

 

[DreamSkates]

Which a lot of folks in this country are sadly refusing to acknowledge.

When I do go out, only about 1/3 here wear a mask. The local (large, national chain) hardware store has 100-200 cars in its parking lot daily. About like Walmart. It doesn't appear they are doing anything to regulate the numbers of people in the store. And people wonder why are numbers here in this county keep rising.

I also think that's the difference between the values of individualism (rights, freedom, etc.) and a collectivist or conformist society.

 

[DreamSkates]

I'd be surprised if a lot of the skaters had new programs. Many won't have the money to pay for them since they aren't coaching to earn extra cash and also it would really add to the stress.

I'll take any "old" program to none in some form of competition even if confined to the US or a region, with few or no spectators. The skaters need to keep on track somehow vs. having a year "off" right before the next Olympic year.

 

[DreamSkates]

Nobody should be factoring herd immunity until it's proven that:
1. Previously Infected people are immune
2. Said immunity will last for at least a few years.

Temperature checks can help pinpoint people who are symptomatic, but asymptomatic people can spread the ***** and people who become very ill later are asymptomatic anywhere for 2 days to two weeks (or longer for outliers). So far studies show that the severity of one's symptoms don't correlate to how infectious they are and what kind of viral load they can expel. So checking temperatures can help uncover cases and bar infectious people from entering facilities but will not do jack sh!t to stop the majority of new transmissions. The only thing that will help is massive (and regular) testing of asymptomatic people coupled with contact tracing to know where the hot spots are, and enforced waves of new lockdowns every time any small cluster arises.

Or as in Wuhan (a note in the news), test everyone at the same time. Which is not likely possible. There is to be an attempt to test all 11 million people in Wuhan. If not done on the same day, what's the point?