ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[tony]

Since there's no way for things to return to normal under current realities, I agree there needs to be some creative and strategic thinking on a number of levels regarding various scenarios, and including ways of adjusting that are feasible. They do need to be looking at models in other sports, but also discussing matters with feds around the world. Maybe the working group is thinking in these terms, but they also need to be creative in their thinking, and bring in ideas from the entire skating community to consider. They need to show responsible and creative leadership, which I know does not come easily to the ISU. But rise to the challenge!

This post and a few of the others make it sound like the ISU just plain doesn't care. When you have the biggest sports in the world struggling to come up with a situation that works the best and many athletes being vocal about either waiting this out or just canceling seasons as we know them and reconvene in 2021, I don't know why skating should be any different. I honestly think some fans in this situation are a lot more 'worried' about the skaters getting back to competition mode than the skaters themselves. They understand what is happening, as unfortunate at it is. But I don't see any of them complaining about the state of the world.

And once again, you can only do so much. Skating Federations aren't in charge of local and national regulations. They also can't prepare anything solid when the information coming out each day changes drastically. This includes cities that have tried reopening or tried to loosen whichever restrictions they have in place, only to see that it isn't a good idea.

 

[aftershocks]

This post and a few of the others make it sound like the ISU just plain doesn't care.

It really isn't about that for me. There's been no indication that the ISU doesn't care. Why would you even say that? I think you are perceiving what I and perhaps some others are saying in the wrong way. I think many of us accept the realities and understand that normal competitions are unlikely to happen anytime soon. Why do you think that prevents exploring creative ways to do something? Again, it's not about a return to competitions as we know them. I'm not an expert regarding technology, but I'm sure there are people in the sport who do have expert knowledge and capabilities.

There's no way of knowing when or if large-gathering competitions will be able to take place again. So does that mean everything is thus scuttled? Have you done a survey of exactly how athletes are thinking in detail? Or are you having conversations here and there with a few of them on surface level issues? We need some strategic long-term and short-term thinking. Or do we just give in and wait around hopelessly in thrall to the friggin' v i r u s and the chaos it has wrought?

ETA:
Plus, I'm not expecting anything to happen immediately in terms of competitive possibilities. And surely it's not going to happen all at once globally, so it's not a matter of having an 'official shortened season.' I'm not looking at it in the normal way, because nothing is normal regarding what we've been used to. There would have to be more local and regional endeavors considered and experimented with as a way of athletes being kept engaged and active while the larger battle continues to find a v a c c i n e and other safety measures. The thing is to try new ways of thinking and to just begin exploring, and to do something.

That's the spirit I've seen from athletes and from people in other fields of endeavor on social media. Even if people in the skating community simply get together remotely and talk, but keep engaging in a positive, hopeful way. In fact, that's what some skaters and coaches are doing to stay engaged with each other. They are taking online streaming exercise and ballet classes and staying in touch with each other and engaging with fans. That's the first step. And now why not start thinking about what else can be done in terms of competing in creative ways that aren't part of a normal, record-keeping season? Why not?

 

[tony]

It really isn't about that for me. There's been no indication that the ISU doesn't care. Why would you even say that? I think you are perceiving what I and perhaps some others are saying in the wrong way. I think many of us accept the realities and understand that normal competitions are unlikely to happen anytime soon. Why do you think that prevents exploring creative ways to do something? Again, it's not about a return to competitions as we know them. I'm not an expert regarding technology, but I'm sure there are people in the sport who do have expert knowledge and capabilities.

Your direct quote is that 'they need to show responsible and creative leadership'. That's extremely hard to do with the endless variables in this situation- variables that the ISU has no control over. They can come up with all the plans that they'd like, but the reality is that situations are changing daily/weekly and until there's some kind of uniform level that most of the world has gotten to, it doesn't really matter which ideas they have brainstormed.

There's no way of knowing when or if large-gathering competitions will be able to take place again. So does that mean everything is thus scuttled? Have you done a survey of exactly how athletes are thinking in detail? Or are you having conversations here and there with a few of them on surface level issues? We need some strategic long-term and short-term thinking. Or do we just give in and wait around hopelessly in thrall to the friggin' v i r u s and the chaos it has wrought?

You are being facetious asking if I've done a survey. You know the answer to that. But I have talked to a fair share of athletes, coaches, ISU members, and other people involved in the sport and not one has complained yet that the skaters NEED to be competing again. No one is posting on their social media that life isn't fair. Athletes in other sports have shared that they want as much of a regular season as possible, even if it means waiting longer. I can direct you to such information. I've also shared earlier in this thread that from talking to some people who are involved with the ISU, it seems their hopeful plan at this point is to fit in a Worlds sometime in the first half of 2021-- not necessarily in March. At this point, I get the impression they don't have much hope of the Grand Prix or especially the Junior Grand Prix, and that would basically mean no fall 2020 season. But like I said, things can change daily. They can hold out hope just like some of us hold out hope that we can return to work sometime soon without being put at too much of a risk, etc.

 

[overedge]

As for ice rinks, I've said it elsewhere, but I can't imagine setting foot on the ice until 2021 at least, when I feel like we might have a better sense of YKW is and the possibility of a vaccine. I know that's not what the ISU wants, but I might respect them more if they took a stand and shut down the 2020-2021 season as a precautionary measure and then maybe wrote some guidelines for what to do in the event of a catastrophic event.

^^THIS

 

[aftershocks]

Your direct quote is that 'they need to show responsible and creative leadership'. That's extremely hard to do with the endless variables in this situation- variables that the ISU has no control over. They can come up with all the plans that they'd like, but the reality is that situations are changing daily/weekly and until there's some kind of uniform level that most of the world has gotten to, it doesn't really matter which ideas they have brainstormed.

You are being facetious asking if I've done a survey. You know the answer to that. But I have talked to a fair share of athletes, coaches, ISU members, and other people involved in the sport and not one has complained yet that the skaters NEED to be competing again. No one is posting on their social media that life isn't fair. Athletes in other sports have shared that they want as much of a regular season as possible, even if it means waiting longer. I can direct you to such information. I've also shared earlier in this thread that from talking to some people who are involved with the ISU, it seems their hopeful plan at this point is to fit in a Worlds sometime in the first half of 2021-- not necessarily in March. At this point, I get the impression they don't have much hope of the Grand Prix or especially the Junior Grand Prix, and that would basically mean no fall 2020 season. But like I said, things can change daily. They can hold out hope just like some of us hold out hope that we can return to work sometime soon without being put at too much of a risk, etc.

^^ Okay, good @Tony Wheeler. That's fine. It still does not preclude holding local, in-rink competitions that are streamed. I'm not suggesting that such competitions be held as part of any kind of season. You seem to be thinking that I'm asking for results now and for all the answers to be solved now. That's not what I'm doing, and I doubt that's what others are asking for either.

While authorities are brainstorming on a number of levels regarding the future once a vaccine becomes available, the question for me is: what do athletes do in the interim aside from the staying fit that they have been doing? I don't expect traveling in-country, but if rinks are opened in some capacity, is it possible at some point with safety measures for athletes to perform (even if not competitively) but to get out on the ice together and perform in competitive-like formats to keep the juices flowing? Of course, keeping safety measures in mind.


You appear to be saying, 'No, hold tight and wait till a v a c c i n e is discovered.' Eh, even when/if it is discovered, traveling outside countries is not going to happen immediately. Therefore tentatively scheduling Worlds 2021 is also 'wishful thinking.' So the point I'm making is for creativity and thinking outside the box to happen. Because even with a v a c c i n e, it really doesn't mean things will ever get back to the 'normal' type of competitions we've been used to. Why not do something different in the interim that keeps us engaged and involved in new ways that are safe and feasible? It's not a matter of the kind of record-keeping and ISU-level competitions which right now can't take place.

 

[overedge]

Not sure what the ISU or anyone is supposed to do about it or though? Maybe you could write to them with your suggestions?

Once more for the people at the back: map out some possible scenarios and do strategic planning for each of them.

At the very least, because of rinks being shut and many people having economic difficulties, there's going to be a decline in skaters starting or continuing in the sport. Which is going to have implications in the not too distant future for the number of participants (=lower revenues from membership fees, which will affect the national federations) and implications even later on for numbers of coaches, officials, volunteers, etc.

 

[MacMadame]

I would be surprised if the ISU wasn't brainstorming how to return to having competitions, changes to the sport to keep money coming in, etc. The problem is that skating has to take place in rinks in most places and during most of the year. It's not like running or cycling that happens outdoors. So they are limited. For example, they can't hold virtual competitions like the endurance industry is doing.

I think locally setting up temporary rinks outdoors will work in some places. But not everywhere.

The only other thing I can think of is setting up some virtual events and having the skaters on rollerblades. Of course, that's a different sport with different skills and there already is a group running them.

 

[tony]

^^ Okay, good. That's fine. It still does not preclude holding local, in-rink competitions that are streamed. I'm not suggesting that such competitions be held as part of any kind of season. You seem to be thinking that I'm asking for results now and for all the answers to be solved now. That's not what I'm doing, and I doubt that's what others are asking for either.

Local, in-rink competitions would be a lot different than the ISU stepping up and telling member nations/local areas what they should do and/or being creative. Also, don't know if you've noticed but you have people calling Tom Zakrajsek an idiot for letting his skaters on the ice now. So at what point do these not become 'idiot'ic decisions? If workers in cities that still have a rise in all of their numbers are told 'well, we are reopening anyways so deal with it', do you think they are all going to want to go back immediately?

While authorities are brainstorming on a number of levels regarding the future once a vaccine becomes available, the question for me is: what do athletes do in the interim aside from the staying fit that they have been doing? I don't expect traveling in-country, but if rinks are opened in some capacity, is it possible at some point with safety measures for athletes to perform (even if not competitively) but to get out on the ice together and perform in competitive-like formats to keep the juices flowing. Of course, keeping safety measures in mind.

I haven't worked for over two months. Many people haven't worked for over two months. Most gyms across the nation are shut down. Most sports complexes are shut down. The skating world is far from the only world that has been affected in some way. The hobbies and careers that many people have are being put on hold or are being drastically modified with no clear answer on when they can start back towards what they were at pre-CV. But somehow the ISU should be the leader in showing creativity when governments can't even make up their minds about whether to open or stay closed..

You took the words out of my mouth. There are a number of considerations to think about on a number of levels. I've voiced this in the U.S. pairs thread. We are still in the early stages of what's been happening. There are mid-level skaters who rely on coaching in order to fund their training. And if they had other part-time jobs, those jobs may not have been available to them either at this time. We are surely going to begin to hear about many more skaters retiring or simply leaving the sport to pursue other interests and endeavors. The athletes can't hold out forever trying to stay fit. This is what I'm talking about. New ways of thinking have to be considered about the sport as a whole. About life as a whole. Maybe that's too big a concept for any of us to wrap our heads around. But we need to start.

Actually, the big concept that we need to wrap our heads around is that figure skating is not the only hobby/sport/event that is being severely compromised. The summer Olympic athletes, who were all trying to peak in July and August, now need to sit out completely and then hope they can get back into the rhythm for next year. Sure, some skaters might not have the motivation to come back to the sport. MANY people do not have any work or income right now. This isn't a case of it being a bubble where only the skating community is going to suffer.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ If you read my posts in their entirety @Tony Wheeler, you will see that I'm not just talking about figure skating and skaters. Obviously, the entire world has been affected which means all of us on an individual level. People are going stir-crazy indoors.

Hospitals are reopening with implementing safety measures and trying to convince the general public to return for elective procedures. But everything is very, very different. Security set up when you enter to ask questions. Everyone wears masks. They will give you a homemade cloth mask if you need one. Nurses team up with one observing as the other takes your blood pressure, etc (all from a safe distance). The doctor looks at your record and calls you on your cellphone before entering the exam room, and wears gloves and a mask. No close contact unless needed, with safety always in mind (even though they know you aren't infected with anything). There's hardly any patients though and all the food shops are empty, with front door service only. No handling of money, just credit or debit cards.

I had to visit a hospital the other day because I stupidly tripped and fell on a stairway landing in April but there was no way I was going to visit a hospital in April! I was fortunate I didn't break any bones, but I've been sore for awhile. Fortunately, no major issues. Still, yes, we are all impacted in ways that aren't even apparent, across every industry. The overall economic impacts for every country are dire and will be for some time.

At the very least, because of rinks being shut and many people having economic difficulties, there's going to be a decline in skaters starting or continuing in the sport. Which is going to have implications in the not too distant future for the number of participants (=lower revenues from membership fees, which will affect the national federations) and implications even later on for numbers of coaches, officials, volunteers, etc.

You took the words out of my mouth. There are a number of considerations to think about on a number of levels. I've voiced this in the U.S. pairs thread. We are still in the early stages of what's been happening. There are mid-level skaters who rely on coaching in order to fund their training. And if they had other part-time jobs, those jobs may not have been available to them either at this time. We are surely going to begin to hear about many more skaters retiring or simply leaving the sport to pursue other interests and endeavors. The athletes can't hold out forever trying to stay fit. This is what I'm talking about. New ways of thinking have to be considered about the sport as a whole. About life as a whole. Maybe that's too big a concept for any of us to wrap our heads around. But we need to start.

 

[alchemy void]

I don't understand why the ISU is expected to map out possible scenarios and conduct strategic planning when much larger sports, like MLB for example, are a hot mess. There are simply too many unknown variables this far out.

This would be my best-case scenario for next season:

• No autumn international events (JGP, GP, Challengers cancelled)
• Some domestic events in autumn (Russian Cups, Japanese events, maybe something in US, definitely an unfortunate advantage for large feds)
• Perhaps a few international events in early 2021, based on geography. Like Nordics for example? Or I could see a few neighboring countries in Europe holding an international event at some point. If not, probably a couple more domestic events.
• A slim chance of Euros occurring, with limited participation. Same with 4CC. Maybe it's just Oceania and Asia. #optimismreigns
• Worlds, possibly delayed, in spring 2021.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ As I said @alchemy void, I'm only hoping the ISU might show some creative and responsible leadership, which simply means stepping up during a crisis even when everything is uncertain and everyone is feeling insecure, and we all fear the unknown. That doesn't mean I expect the ISU to come up with all the answers. As I said earlier, they have a lot to think about on a number of levels, which involves delegation and organizational strategies and creative leadership, which the latter they've always lacked. At least, they are doing something, and I'm quite sure they care. It's not about that. It's about realizing that none of us have all the answers but it shouldn't prevent us from thinking outside the box and engaging with each other.

What's wrong though with a leadership body thinking about strategies and scenarios? For example, if they are setting a date for a possible Worlds 2021, are they just crossing their fingers? Or are they also taking into account implementing safety measures and figuring out what changes may need to be made, rather than thinking everything will take place in the usual fashion? It will not. Of course they have to monitor health considerations and guidelines, but they can also think strategically and start considering if thus and so happens, what will a future competition look like. It's as if many of us are really not on the same wavelength in our postings here. Nothing is going to be the same. Some athletes may not be able to travel to a possible 2021 Worlds regardless.

We'll see if the Summer Olympics gets to be held in 2021. I doubt the 2022 Winter Olympics is going to take place. It will have to be rescheduled as well, but where and when? Rescheduling will affect timelines, strategies and logistics for many athletes. So once again, even when a v a c c i n e is discovered, nothing is going back to normal.

And tell me @Tony Wheeler about the fact that gyms are shut down everywhere. I miss my Y workout regimen!!! For the time being, I have to figure out other alternatives. I'm just glad about the fact that I never took those privileges for granted when they were available to me. Even should gyms and YMCAs reopen at some point, nothing will be the same.

 

[aftershocks]

The fact is that the sport of figure skating has needed for quite awhile to consider making a number of changes or at least setting up exploratory committees for rethinking the sport's entire competitive structure. Now, they will be forced to rethink beyond what they could ever have imagined.

As I said in the Stars On Ice thread, beyond thoughts of competitive scenarios, why not also think about new revenue streams? Figure out ways of creating specially-made streaming productions similar to television skating specials of old -- but with an updated new world twist. It might provide employment avenues for those skaters who want to remain involved in the sport but are no longer able to viably compete. Think outside the box...

 

[missing]

I would assume the ISU is considering many different options both for figure skating and for speed skating. Nothing they decide is going to please everyone. I understand why they're not sharing the brainstorming sessions with us, but not knowing what's going on adds a level of frustration.

I have an idea (created while reading this thread for the last couple of minutes) for kind of a stunt event that would at least give fans something to watch and root and debate over.

The Voice has video auditions and culls people from their submissions before inviting them to audition live in front of the coaches.

What if when rinks are opened (but before big events can be held) skaters from around the world submitted videos of their best short programs. A panel of judges (say, famous retired skaters) would watch the videos and select what they vote as the best (maybe 6 for each discipline) to compete live at a specified time at the skater's own rink. The judges (and we the crazed fans) watch the free skates via streaming. The judges can pick the one they regard as best and the fans can do the same.

I doubt the top skaters would be interested but lower ranked skaters might as a way to get their work seen, and we the fans would have something to enjoy and participate in and complain about, while being spared the boring Zamboni breaks.

 

[aftershocks]

• slim chance of Euros occurring, with limited participation. Same with 4CC. Maybe it's just Oceania and Asia. #optimismreigns
• Worlds, possibly delayed, in spring 2020.

Talk about 'wishful thinking.' Do you mean Worlds 2021 delayed to later in 2021, if a v a c c i n e has been discovered, and traveling restrictions have been lifted?

How will the athletes even be competition ready if they don't have some kind of opportunity to get back onto the ice and work on last year's programs, since I doubt most will be able to get new programs completed, unless they are able to work remotely with their choreographers. Even then, at some point, the skaters have to do runthroughs.

I don't see 4CCs happening next year. If it's just Oceania and Asia, as you posit, then once again, traveling restrictions would have had to be lifted. Plus, quarantining may still be involved when entering countries. That's another drawback. And if a v a c c i n e is still not available by early next year, I don't see competitions like Euros or 4CCs or Worlds being held, unless possible virtual models for competing remotely have been explored and figured out.

 

[tony]

I would assume the ISU is considering many different options both for figure skating and for speed skating. Nothing they decide is going to please everyone. I understand why they're not sharing the brainstorming sessions with us, but not knowing what's going on adds a level of frustration.

I have an idea (created while reading this thread for the last couple of minutes) for kind of a stunt event that would at least give fans something to watch and root and debate over.

The Voice has video auditions and culls people from their submissions before inviting them to audition live in front of the coaches.

What if when rinks are opened (but before big events can be held) skaters from around the world submitted videos of their best short programs. A panel of judges (say, famous retired skaters) would watch the videos and select what they vote as the best (maybe 6 for each discipline) to compete live at a specified time at the skater's own rink. The judges (and we the crazed fans) watch the free skates via streaming. The judges can pick the one they regard as best and the fans can do the same.

I doubt the top skaters would be interested but lower ranked skaters might as a way to get their work seen, and we the fans would have something to enjoy and participate in and complain about, while being spared the boring Zamboni breaks.

Skaters of every level are free to share practice performances and clips on their own social media, and most do. They are then getting the direct attention and likes for their work. Even Michelle Kwan often posts brief clips of impromptu performances on roller blades (and previously on figure skates).

The ISU would probably never go for this 'Great Skate Debate'-type pro competition that happened in the 90's. The Young Artists Showcase did something similar with the choreography of programs for several years, but again I'm quite certain this would be a separate organization having to figure out the logistics rather than a new ISU venture.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ No one said that it has to be a 'new ISU venture.' The sport has never existed in a vacuum. When creative juices start flowing and we begin to think in terms of possibilities instead of fretting over limitations and lack, that's when new ideas can eventually lead to something else positive and unexpected happening down the road. In fact, how do any of us think the sport developed over time in the first place? People got out on the ice outdoors and started moving around and playing and thinking creatively and spontaneously, and it took off from there. Of course, skating over ice first started out of necessity in order to get from point A to point B. Later, people of leisure donned skates to enjoy themselves, and eventually the sport developed over time, with many fits and starts, and pearl-clutching revolutions and politics.

What if when rinks are opened (but before big events can be held) skaters from around the world submitted videos of their best short programs. A panel of judges (say, famous retired skaters) would watch the videos and select what they vote as the best (maybe 6 for each discipline) to compete live at a specified time at the skater's own rink. The judges (and we the crazed fans) watch the free skates via streaming. The judges can pick the one they regard as best and the fans can do the same.

Yep, get creative juices flowing and give the skaters something to look forward to and to occupy their time with! What you are suggesting is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Skaters can't wait around forever trying to stay fit in hopes they will eventually compete again. New thinking about everything has to happen, along with keeping safety meaures in mind. Start thinking and suggesting and exploring and trying things out. I totally agree with your post.

 

[Dobre]

Again, I think for a while maybe skating organizations & fans can just try to support competitions that are put together at a local level. And, of course, any fundraising/relief efforts for athletes that are facing economic hardship as the dust settles and the day-to-day challenge of training becomes feasible.

At this point, I would just hope that the ISU is staying in contact with different national federations. Trying to keep tabs on the scenarios in different countries and open to listening & responding as different needs, concerns, and opportunities for skating emerge.




Sweden seems committed to their current course and we will learn from their choices so that knowledge, at least, seems like a good thing.

Regardless of what happens there, I don't see how Sweden's achieving herd immunity would provide safety for anyone attending a World Figure Skating Championships. I mean--first you fly there in a plane full of people not from Sweden. And then you check into a hotel with a bunch of people not from Sweden. And then you sit in an arena for a week with a bunch of people from Sweden + a bunch of people not from Sweden. And even if you live close enough not to have to fly or you don't need a hotel, there is still the whole spending all day every day for a week with all those people in a cold environment where everybody's germs last longer than they would even in a regular indoor environment.

Of course, if there are treatments or a vaccine or the event was held without an audience, then those things could greatly change the risk factor. But herd immunity in Sweden wouldn't mean herd immunity among any typical World-Championships audience that I have seen. (A high level of immunity in Japan might be helpful).

 

[aftershocks]

Again, I think for a while maybe skating organizations & fans can just try to support competitions that are put together at a local level. And, of course, any fundraising/relief efforts for athletes that are facing economic hardship as the dust settles and the day-to-day challenge of training becomes feasible.

At this point, I would just hope that the ISU is staying in contact with different national federations. Trying to keep tabs on the scenarios in different countries and open to listening & responding as different needs, concerns, and opportunities for skating emerge.

Exactly.

 

[allezfred]

Once more for the people at the back: map out some possible scenarios and do strategic planning for each of them.

At the very least, because of rinks being shut and many people having economic difficulties, there's going to be a decline in skaters starting or continuing in the sport. Which is going to have implications in the not too distant future for the number of participants (=lower revenues from membership fees, which will affect the national federations) and implications even later on for numbers of coaches, officials, volunteers, etc.

So you have no clue either what they should do apart from the fact they should do something. Which you would somehow find a way to criticise whatever they did.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Well, as the OP said, "The ISU has established a Working Group, headed by Lakernik, that will monitor the feasibility of holding figure skating events during the 2020-21 season, due to the challenges of the current crisis. The Working Group will decide whether it's okay to hold events or not..."

Hmmm, here's my wild guess, Working Group headed by Lakernik: It's probably not going to be safe or feasible to hold the normal skating events for 2020-21. So while you're doing your working group think, please consider coming up with some thoughts, ideas, and maybe some short-term and long-term scenarios for the sport as a whole. Or at the least, try considering thoughts, ideas, and scenarios from others in the skating community. At the very least, try providing leadership, assistance and support for creative-thinking alternatives across-the-board. Leadership does not mean coming up with all the answers in a hot minute, btw. It's about vision, courage, and taking the responsibility during a crisis to step-up and lead us all out of the wilderness without a map, a compass or a friggin' clue. Capiche?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Whoaaaaaa.. Reading this entire thread is going to interfere with my day drinking.

Can someone please DM me and tell me the gist of this thread??????????

 

[misskarne]

Hmmm, here's my wild guess, Working Group headed by Lakernik: It's probably not going to be safe or feasible to hold the normal skating events for 2020-21. So while you're doing your working group think, please consider coming up with some thoughts, ideas, and maybe some short-term and long-term scenarios for the sport as a whole.

And how do you know they're not doing just that right now?

Believe it or not, the ISU doesn't exist purely to make fans happy. There's a lot of work they'll be doing right now. Calling off the season is a big deal. We might know it's obvious we won't get a JGP and GP season - but that's not solely the ISU's call; the competitions themselves are run by the various feds. The ISU probably has to determine if they're allowed to pre-emptively cancel a competition that the fed running it refuses to cancel - or that the fed financially cannot cancel.

Let's take Skate America for example. Let's say that come August/September (whenever the cutoff is), the US is still in a shitfire (likely) and the ISU does not want Skate America to go ahead for the safety of its athletes and judges (ignoring the fact that many athletes or judges may not be permitted by their home countries to fly to the US!).

The ISU cannot just unilaterally cancel the event. The event is being run by USFS. USFS decide they would like to cancel the event - but what if Nevada turns out to be one of those states run by an idiot (there seem to be a lot) who have demanded full re-open and other sporting events are ongoing? Suddenly the USFS insurance will not want to pay out, because there is no government order preventing them from running the event. Suddenly, the cancellation of Skate America could be financially ruinous for USFS. Suddenly, the ISU is left with a huge problem that's not their fault.

I don't like much of what the ISU has done recently, but I have no doubt they're frantically trying to untangle a very complex issue here and probably have lawyers on the phone day and night. Just because they haven't announced that that's what they're doing, doesn't mean they aren't doing it.

 

[aftershocks]

Whoaaaaaa.. Reading this entire thread is going to interfere with my day drinking.

Can someone please DM me and tell me the gist of this thread??????????

I'll give it a try: There's unlikely to be a skating season coming up and not until a v a c c i n e and lifting of travel restrictions, etc, etc. Why not think outside-the-box and do something so the athletes working out to stay fit won't be in vain. Others come in to throw cold water and clever sound bites over hopeful ideas. Dreamers dreaming and sharing worries, hopes, and fears. Wash, rinse, repeat. Lots of contradictions, with random efforts at summarizing and agreeing or disagreeing without of course resolving anything, except letting off some pent-up anxieties. Lots of cross-talking and misunderstanding and over-thinking or over-analyzing. Various and sundry prognosticators prognosticating. Some posters chiming in just to be contrarian. The ISU has always lacked creative leadership, so this will be a big test for them. Others punch back: How dare you criticize the sport's honchos who are secretly doing everything in their limited power and pulling their hair out in the process to save the sport of figure skating as we used to know it, without realizing the sport will never be the same again. But #optimismreigns. Maybe something positive is happening behind-the-scenes. Let's not give up. Let's be kinder and more compassionate toward the sport and toward each other. Ummm, at least try?
We all need to get outside and see some real figure skating and live again!!!

Oh, and let's not forget that everyone in the world is in the same boat, albeit with different views, advantages, disadvantages, etc. Pray, hope, fundraise for those who need help the most. Stop feeling sorry for yourself...

ETA:
@AngieNikodinovLove

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I'll give it a try: There's unlikely to be a skating season coming up and not until a v a c c i n e and lifting of travel restrictions, etc, etc. Why not think outside-the-box and do something so the athletes working out to stay fit won't be in vain. Others come in to throw cold water and clever sound bites over hopeful ideas. Dreamers dreaming and sharing worries, hopes, and fears. Wash, rinse, repeat. Lots of contradictions, with random efforts at summarizing and agreeing or disagreeing without of course resolving anything, except letting off some pent-up anxieties. Lots of cross-talking and misunderstanding and over-thinking or over-analyzing. Various and sundry prognosticators prognosticating. Some posters chiming in just to be contrarian. The ISU has always lacked creative leadership, so this will be a big test for them. Others punch back: How dare you criticize the sport's honchos who are secretly doing everything in their limited power and pulling their hair out in the process to save the sport of figure skating as we used to know it, without realizing the sport will never be the same again. But #optimismreigns. Maybe something positive is happening behind-the-scenes. Let's not give up. Let's be kinder and more compassionate toward the sport and toward each other. Ummm, at least try?
We all need to get outside and see some real figure skating and live again!!!

Oh, and let's not forget that everyone in the world is in the same boat, albeit with different views, advantages, disadvantages, etc. Pray, hope, fundraise for those who need help the most. Stop feeling sorry for yourself...

ETA:
@AngieNikodinovLove

LOLLLLLL,

Thanks .....

Ill stay with the day drinking. (and night drinking).

Ill check back in next weekend for an update!!!!!!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This may be the booze talking...

but why not go old school.. and have the GP series outdoors!!!!!!!!!!!!

Virus doesnt thrive outdoors.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Old school with a new twist. Yep, methinks you're on to something @AngieNikodinovLove. Just as I said earlier in regard to shows: why not go back to some of the skating special productions of old for inspiration, but with new updated twists and of course using streaming platforms. It will take some thinking and planning, but isn't pulling together in times of challenge and crisis doable?

 

[Aussie Willy]

Looking at this from the POV of our national skating scene (Australia) there are going to be a number of factors come into play.

Firstly the rinks have to open. And even then there are probably going to be restrictions on how many people can even enter the building at a time. So that is going to curtail people being able to skate for starters.

Secondly how many will actually come back to skating? If you were a parent who didn't have to get up at the crack of sparrow's fart to take your kid skating and then looked at how much money you saved, it might change your mind. I certainly know parents who are appreciating not having to do that.

Thirdly, clubs and associations have to try an accommodate for their sport in amongst a massive demand for ice time. Hockey may want to book out ice for a disrupted season calendar to play catch up.

On top of this, when it comes to an international season, is there even going to be one? Not unless open international travel resumes which I do not see is going to happen in the next 12 months. I don't know what is going to happen to 4CC here in Sydney next year, but I really don't see it going ahead. Because while other countries may be open for business, Australia may not be.

So it is a case of we wait and see.

 

[carriecmu0503]

^^THIS

We cannot have the entire world hide in our homes waiting for a vaccine that may never come. There’s never been a coronavirus vaccine before. What makes you think they’re all of a sudden going to come up with one in less than a year now? We’ve been waiting almost 40 years for an HIV vaccine. It is not realistic to put the entire world in hiding waiting for a vaccine that may never come. As time goes by, we are learning that 98 to 99% of people who get this virus either don’t know they ever even had it or recover just fine. At this point, the elderly and those with serious underlying health conditions need to be protected, while the rest of us need to get back at it.

 

[starrynight]

The thing is that in Australia we are starting to reopen again because we haven’t suffered badly because (aided by being a long way from everything) we managed to shut borders early to stop overseas cases. The majority of our cases are from people bringing it in from overseas and they are being caught in quarantine.

We have nothing to gain from opening up borders and everything to lose.

That’s the perspective of a small isolated country. Of course every country is unique.

But by wanting to stage international sports - and there are so many of them - it’s effectively asking for the border closures to be taken down.

I mean it’s dreadful for international sports and I just don’t know what the consequences are going to be. But if sports went through and came out the other side of the World Wars, they will get through this one way or another.

Maybe local competitions are going to be the way forward for a while.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

We cannot have the entire world hide in our homes waiting for a vaccine that may never come. There’s never been a ******** vaccine before. What makes you think they’re all of a sudden going to come up with one in less than a year now? We’ve been waiting almost 40 years for an HIV vaccine. It is not realistic to put the entire world in hiding waiting for a vaccine that may never come. As time goes by, we are learning that 98 to 99% of people who get this ***** either don’t know they ever even had it or recover just fine. At this point, the elderly and those with serious underlying health conditions need to be protected, while the rest of us need to get back at it.

There absolutely will be a vaccine for the BB. We don’t know the exact timeline, but there will be one.

The idea that the fact that there’s no vaccine for HIV bears any relevance to the current situation is ridiculous. HIV and the BB are not remotely similar. HIV is a retrovirus. It is stunningly complicated. The BB is not a retrovirus, it is no more complicated than anything else we have a vaccine for.

And the only reason there’s never been a vaccine for this specific type of illness before is that we have never needed one. The typical version that many people have had is the common cold. There are no vaccines for any type of common cold because they are not dangerous. The actual dangerous versions of this type of agent were SARS and MERS. In both cases, vaccines were in development and were very far along at the point where the disease died out. The MERS vaccine had already made it through phase 1 clinical trials. The only reason vaccines for those were never developed is that there turned out to be no need. And no, that will not happen now. This disease is wildly more contagious and has spread much further and faster.

The 98 to 99% of people don’t know they have it or recover just fine? That’s nothing that number does not exist. The testing data isn’t good enough to show that kind of number with any certainty. We also don’t know if people who have recovered may face long term complications.

Heck, for the moment we don’t know for sure that people who have had the disease can’t get it again. We suspect that to be true, but even that is not yet proven.

So maybe don’t bounce in and spout anti-vax talking points like no one will call you on it?