ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[kre56]

Tom Z is an idiot..

 

[Colonel Green]

They should be planning for its impacts. Fewer opportunities to train and fewer participants is going to have to change how the sport as a whole operates.

There's not really much to be done without knowing how exactly this plays out. The main thing the ISU controls is event scheduling (together with local federations), and so far they're taking a wait-and-see approach.

 

[Bellanca]

Tom Z is an idiot..

The pot calling the kettle black...

 

[overedge]

There's not really much to be done without knowing how exactly this plays out. The main thing the ISU controls is event scheduling (together with local federations), and so far they're taking a wait-and-see approach.

The ISU gives development money to smaller federations, decides how many international events are held and when, has a biannual Congress, trains and appoints judges...it does a lot more than schedule events. No, it can't match down to the local rink and tell them how many learn to skate classes and what price to charge - but it better do some strategic planning for how skating might be forced to evolve.

 

[skateboy]

If this has been discussed already, my apologies.

One of the biggest hazards of holding skating events during this BB concerns the large crowd numbers. I know the idea of performing without audience members has been mentioned (for a number of sports)... what about the idea of holding GP and other competitions in rinks, rather than big arenas?

Could this even be a possibility? The huge space wouldn't be necessary without the public and would certainly save a ton of money.

 

[MacMadame]

The only Junior event I've ever been to was at a local rink. I think it was not a JGP but some other Challenge-type event (for a series that might not exist anymore). So it's been done before and could probably be done again.

 

[misskarne]

If this has been discussed already, my apologies.

One of the biggest hazards of holding skating events during this BB concerns the large crowd numbers. I know the idea of performing without audience members has been mentioned (for a number of sports)... what about the idea of holding GP and other competitions in rinks, rather than big arenas?

Could this even be a possibility? The huge space wouldn't be necessary without the public and would certainly save a ton of money.

It's occurred to me as a solution. The problem remains that you have skaters, judges and officials coming from all different countries, not just the host country. Many countries have 14-day quarantine on arrival now, and there are many countries that just won't be able to host regardless - as well as many countries skaters won't want to go to (understandably). If you look at the list of GP events, only Canada is really in any shape to be considered right now.

And if you cancel one GP, you have to cancel them all. Otherwise you end up in a giant mess of "how many GPs is fair to make the series go ahead and what do we do with the skaters assigned the cancelled event?"

 

[taz'smum]

Well, in Australia all citizens are banned from international travel.

So no one from here is going anywhere. Certainly not for a skating competition.

Until when is the ban in place?

 

[misskarne]

Until when is the ban in place?

We do not have an end date yet. The first border opening will most certainly be with New Zealand - probably late June or July, more likely August. After that, I suspect we will take it case by case. Our citizens might be allowed out, but I doubt anyone else will be allowed in before the end of the year.

 

[taz'smum]

We do not have an end date yet. The first border opening will most certainly be with New Zealand - probably late June or July, more likely August. After that, I suspect we will take it case by case. Our citizens might be allowed out, but I doubt anyone else will be allowed in before the end of the year.

I'd imagine those citizens allowed out would be subjected to 14 days quarantine on return?

 

[Tinami Amori]

First the xxxxxxxxx situation needs to clarify, then Feds' countries need to restore regular functions, then air travel resumed, and few more... Then one can consider how to plan major sports venues.

Imo - we are going to skip 2020/21 season.

 

[Orm Irian]

I'd imagine those citizens allowed out would be subjected to 14 days quarantine on return?

Absolutely. Straight from the airport to a fourteen-day quarantine in a hotel in the state you arrive in, then another fourteen-day quarantine when you cross the border to the state you live in if it's a different one, if the system is the same by then as it is now.

 

[misskarne]

I'd imagine those citizens allowed out would be subjected to 14 days quarantine on return?

Yep - do not go home at all, straight to hotel for quarantine. So for our skaters, who look as though they will have to stay here to train, it would be two weeks quarantine, competition, two weeks quarantine. Not to mention the person being quarantined has to pay now, if they leave the country voluntarily and then come back.

 

[Rhino]

One thing to bear in mind in all this is that next year's World Champs are in Sweden and, famously, Sweden has hardly had any sort of lockdown https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rges-lockdown-question-hangs-was-sweden-right. https://www.france24.com/en/2020051...y-has-caused-an-amplification-of-the-epidemic.

Whether the lockdown strategy, or lack of it, was right I leave others to decide, but if there's one country in the world where the virus will have done its worst by next year, it would appear to be Sweden.

Of course it may be that herd immunity has not yet been established in Sweden by next year due to all the voluntary social distancing measures being adopted, but if it has been it may be a relatively safe place to travel to, plus you would assume they'd be quite willing to accept skaters from all round the world - their borders are still open as we speak, plus if you do have herd immunity it shouldn't bother you too much if people are coming to you from countries where the virus is still very prevalent.

Overall I feel there has to be some confidence that the World Champs will be held in Sweden next year just because of their overall policies, whereas anywhere else would appear to be very doubtful.

Edit - the France 24 link doesn't appear to be working, but if I do a Google search on C*********s Sweden the article is there. Don't know what's going on, but if you want to read it you should be able to find it.

 

[taz'smum]

One thing to bear in mind in all this is that next year's World Champs are in Sweden.

As this article states, it will take 4 to 5 years for Sweden to gain herd immunity, so it most certainly won't be a safe place to travel next Spring, unless a vaccine is in place by them or an alternative method of controlling the v**rus is found along the lines of the way AIDS is controlled.
Americans calling for herd immunity should look at Sweden's coronavirus experiment to see why it won't work

(necessity is the mother of all inventions, so I live in hope for either a vaccine or a control method!)

 

[MsZem]

(necessity is the mother of all inventions, so I live in hope for either a vaccine or a control method!)

Researchers are learning as they go along - not surprising with something so new and complex - so there may well be breakthroughs in the knowledge about how to detect and treat CV cases effectively, or understanding who might be more immune. And the ISU will be able to look to other sports to see what works. The Bundesliga started again yesterday, and it's very different from skating but could maybe provide an early model, and other sports will also start coming back and providing more/less effective models.

I don't think we should assume all will be miraculously fine in a few months, but neither should we assume that the current situation will be fixed in place until there's a vaccine. So: stay hopeful

 

[Rhino]

As this article states, it will take 4 to 5 years for Sweden to gain herd immunity, so it most certainly won't be a safe place to travel next Spring, unless a vaccine is in place by them or an alternative method of controlling the v**rus is found along the lines of the way AIDS is controlled.
Americans calling for herd immunity should look at Sweden's ******** experiment to see why it won't work

(necessity is the mother of all inventions, so I live in hope for either a vaccine or a control method!)

Thanks for the link. The one thing in the Guardian article that caught my eye was where it said a quarter of people in Stockholm have already had the v***s, plus half of all Swedes were infected to some degree, implying that the virus was well advanced as it were in working its way through the population. I guess time will tell who is right, certainly there is always a large degree of uncertainty about numbers of people who have actually been infected with it and so on when you start digging into the articles surrounding it.

 

[taz'smum]

The one thing in the Guardian article that caught my eye was where it said a quarter of people in Stockholm have already had the v*s, plus half of all Swedes were infected to some degree, implying that the *** was well advanced as it were in working its way through the population.

Unfortunately, even assuming the Swedes are on their way to herd immunity, this article points out the problems with the herd immunity theory.
What the Proponents of ‘Natural’ Herd Immunity Don’t Say

 

[allezfred]

Isn't northern Italy where the skaters train, and where Lombardia Trophy would be held?

Yes, at Icelab in Bergamo, a city that was particularly badly hit. At the height of the pandemic the local newspaper had pages and pages of obituaries.

From what I've read, if you arrive in Italy from outside the Schengan/EU, you will be subject to a quarantine.

Good luck to Louis injecting money into the Italian economy from his AirBnB...

The ISU is re-arranging deckchairs on the Titanic by worrying about the big international competitions.

Skating at the local and regional levels is going to look a lot different when or if rinks reopen. I wouldn't be surprised if many clubs or rinks go out of business. With the numbers of skaters that will likely be allowed on the ice at any one time - a lot less than before - training and competing is going to become either a lot more expensive or a lot more inaccessible. Or maybe both. So participation numbers in the sport are probably going to go down.

I was reading an article a few days ago that discussed how, with the v*r*s closing down gyms and other recreational facilities, people are discovering that they can stay in shape with running, hiking, and other outdoor activities where social distance can be maintained. This article speculated that people's leisure/sport preferences may change significantly in the future. So that's something that could also steer people away from sports like skating.

Not sure what the ISU or anyone is supposed to do about it or though? Maybe you could write to them with your suggestions?

 

[Rhino]

Unfortunately, even assuming the Swedes are on their way to herd immunity, this article points out the problems with the herd immunity theory.
What the Proponents of ‘Natural’ Herd Immunity Don’t Say

Thanks again for the article. Yes, this is why Sweden's approach is so risky and controversial, but that appears to be their decision for better or worse. Incidentally have also found out why the France 24 article link above isn't working - if it's got C*********s in the name, FSU is converting it to all *'s saying the link isn't there - got this with your NY Times one, and wondered what was going on with that one until suddenly realised the reason why. (overtyping with the actual name then gives you the link).

 

[Colonel Green]

The ISU gives development money to smaller federations, decides how many international events are held and when, has a biannual Congress, trains and appoints judges...it does a lot more than schedule events. No, it can't match down to the local rink and tell them how many learn to skate classes and what price to charge - but it better do some strategic planning for how skating might be forced to evolve.

There's not all that much you can really do without knowing how exactly this shakes out. They, like most other sports, are going to have to play it by ear for the next little while.

 

[Rock2]

Regions like Sicily, Calabria, Basilicata, and Puglia - some of the poorest in Italy - have remained shuttered for months to protect the weathly Milanese elite (and to keep them out because they wouldn't follow the regional directives that required them to stay at home)....

There absolutely is some truth to the idea that the rich run the world to serve themselves first. But when we insist on framing important decisions and policies around a narrative of victimization at the hands of the elite, I continue to worry about the health and common sense of the public.

Have been living with this here in Toronto when discussing public transit. "The elite rich downtowners only build subways for themselves and won't fund it for the lower income suburbanites." No - it's about population density...and...subways are actually built to get your suburban hiney into the dt core to work in the first place. Trains all over the world go above ground outside of the population core. No having that discussion.

Same all over. The elites are seen as waking up in the morning looking for reasons to mess with the lives of everyone else, because, you know, that's a hobby. No doubt, if/when the situation worsens in the south directly as a result of domestic and foreign tourism, the narrative will switch to the elites trying to destabilize the south to hog the tourism economics. Stand by for that.

 

[Vagabond]

Unfortunately, even assuming the Swedes are on their way to herd immunity, this article points out the problems with the herd immunity theory.
What the Proponents of ‘Natural’ Herd Immunity Don’t Say

Tiny URL is your friend.

 

[Colonel Green]

The vast majority of the country, including the entire south, has been relatively unaffected.

Because the country was locked down to inhibit further spread.

This is like arguing that because your umbrella keeps you from getting wet from the rain, therefore no umbrella was necessary.

 

[aftershocks]

If there isn't a 2020-21 season for safety reasons, surely alternative measures for keeping the skaters engaged and competing in some capacity needs to be thought out. What about a variety of local competitions or individual rink-related competitions, or virtual competitions, even if the judges are involved in judging remotely? Something creative needs to be considered, IMO, to keep the athletes engaged, motivated and in relative competitive shape. And as well to maintain fan interest.

 

[taz'smum]

What about .... virtual competitions, even if the judges are involved in judging remotely? Something creative needs to be considered, IMO, to keep the athletes engaged, motivated and in relative competitive shape. And as well to maintain fan interest.

I think this is a great idea.
I am hoping that at least Russian Nationals will go ahead and be streamed world-wide, that would be great, even if it is delayed until Jan or Feb and is without an audience.
We may now reap the benefit of skaters being used to skating in comps which have next to no audience,they will be used to the new setup!

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Yes, I agree. Some measures on the local and fed levels in countries need to be considered. We have no idea how things are going to pan out generally in any number of fields and endeavors. Even individually, people are coming to grips with their personal lives and relationships, and trying to figure out the directions they hope to go in moving forward. It will be and already is a changed world altogether. There's no sense in arguing at the moment about how things can go back to being the normal we were so used to.

From what I've seen on social media, the athletes are remaining upbeat and trying to adjust. Therefore the feds and ISU need to support them by everyone coming together on local, regional and country level (and cooperating in ways they can with the ISU internationally) regarding how to cope in creative ways. What is our new normal? I truly wish we could all just party like it's 1999. But we can't. We're in a new century and we have to adjust to new realities.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

Regions like Sicily, Calabria, Basilicata, and Puglia - some of the poorest in Italy - have remained shuttered for months to protect the weathly Milanese elite (and to keep them out because they wouldn't follow the regional directives that required them to stay at home). These regions, which are already teetering on abject poverty and are some of the absolute poorest in Europe, would be in total collapse without a summer season.

If YKW overwhelmed Lombardy, it would have been absolutely catastrophic in the South, due to the considerable aging population and the imbalance of resources. When you consider that It would have most likely been transmitted by folks returning home from the North when universities/etc shut down, strict SAH orders were absolutely necessary to slow the rate of infection. My family hasn't been cooped up in their homes in Palermo to protect the "elite"—they're doing it so everyone gets to have a future and not a funeral. Have to agree with @ostile17 that reopening is premature.

But I digress.

As for ice rinks, I've said it elsewhere, but I can't imagine setting foot on the ice until 2021 at least, when I feel like we might have a better sense of YKW is and the possibility of a vaccine. I know that's not what the ISU wants, but I might respect them more if they took a stand and shut down the 2020-2021 season as a precautionary measure and then maybe wrote some guidelines for what to do in the event of a catastrophic event.

 

[tony]

Virtual competitions would still require a lot of setup. Who is going to be in charge of moving the feed from rink to rink? Are they going to provide cameras or just hope the internet connection on a computer/phone is strong enough to see all of the skaters equally? What happens if a feed goes down mid-performance? How many different camera angles will the judges get? Do they get replays? What happens if the rinks can't all come to an agreement of a time schedule for said competitions? Remember, it would likely span MANY different time zones in theory and you'd have some skaters on the ice at 10AM and some at 8PM if you really want it to be an 'International'. If they don't get a specific start time for each skater and rather say 'well, just submit your video to us', they are just going to send the best skate! Local competitions, yes, that would be possible. But bouncing from rink to rink and country to country... different story.

But the biggest question with this remains- are the majority/ALL skaters going to be able to participate? Are countries all going to open rinks in the cities where these skaters train? And if so, are all of them going to be open with similar amounts of preparation time? We are seeing in other sports, the athletes are saying they don't want shortened seasons without all teams/athletes being able to participate- a big one being college football which is infinitely bigger than figure skating. I could see the skating community very much putting their competitors ahead of their own 'need' for competition by having the logic that they want everyone to have the chance to get back to event mode at the same time.

This is A LOT of wishful thinking.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Send them your checklist @Tony Wheeler. We are all in this together, no? This is a time to try and be hopeful and a time to begin exploring creative options, with an eye on precautions and limitations. But IMO, it is not a time for bickering or complaining, or for resorting to hopelessness.

Read up on what it was like during the beginning of live television. A very primitive time in terms of technology. It led to some of the most amazing creativity, quality and quantity of output that television has ever seen, considering the tools and resources they had on hand. Where there's a will, there's a way.

I know that's not what the ISU wants, but I might respect them more if they took a stand and shut down the 2020-2021 season as a precautionary measure and then maybe wrote some guidelines for what to do in the event of a catastrophic event.

Since there's no way for things to return to normal under current realities, I agree there needs to be some creative and strategic thinking on a number of levels regarding various scenarios, and including ways of adjusting that are feasible. They do need to be looking at models in other sports, but also discussing matters with feds around the world. Maybe the working group is thinking in these terms, but they also need to be creative in their thinking, and bring in ideas from the entire skating community to consider. They need to show responsible and creative leadership, which I know does not come easily to the ISU. But rise to the challenge!