From Russia with Love [#33]: Summer 2019

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hanca

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Or you can think about it the other way around. Russian coaches can kick out any student (except those few elite ones in the national team who bring in funding) for any reason any time - if they lose interest in a student, if they think the student is going to grow too tall, or whose parents are not cooperative enough, or the student doesn’t work hard enough, or is too chubby... American coaches have to keep working with as many students as it takes to fill their coaching slots because that’s what their living depends on. Not every student they coach is (in their eyes) future star material.
I don’t think that top American coaches would hesitate to get rid of a problem student. Of course they have to fill their slots, but I don’t think the top coaches have to worry about not being able to do so. One student leaves, others are queueing to take his/her place.
 

Tinami Amori

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Or you can think about it the other way around. Russian coaches can kick out any student (except those few elite ones in the national team who bring in funding) for any reason any time - if they lose interest in a student, if they think the student is going to grow too tall, or whose parents are not cooperative enough, or the student doesn’t work hard enough, or is too chubby... American coaches have to keep working with as many students as it takes to fill their coaching slots because that’s what their living depends on. Not every student they coach is (in their eyes) future star material.
In general, in life, in profession, in choice of partners, students, coaches work places, houses, cars, you name it - any person, in any country, when reaches a level where he/she can "chose the best" or "what he/she wants". the person chooses what's best or what he/she wants.

Some coaches need to fill training spots with any student that comes their way, until they reach a higher level and able to pick. Some coaches reached a level where they can decide which ones to train or not.

Top skaters also pick their coaches. Shoma has many choices, HE gets to pick where to train, and most coaches would take him.

You have to prove yourself, and/or be "of value" in the industry, as a skater or as a coach, and then you get to pick what's best or works for you.

People who have more, or offer more do have more choices. That's normal and fair.
 
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barbarafan

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Was Dylan's expenses just for him or was that the team's collective expenses?
the teams...for half the time he paid everything I believe for both of them. Only Dylan got funding from Skate Canada up until the time Lubov got her permanent residency as per Skate Canada rules. She obtained that I think at the end of their 3rd yr, and she became a citizen during their last year. Re: Canada's rules she was not allowed to earn money until she got her permanent residency.
 

Tinami Amori

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Here is an interesting situation happening. We talked earlier about skaters changing flags, and how it benefits the country's sports federation that they transfer to in terms of "more opportunities for the local skater, when a higher quality foreign skater joins".

Anastasia Shabotova (Russian junior) who trained and still is training with Panova, has recently changed flags/citizenship, and now skating for the Ukrainian Federation. She was released and accepted very swiftly, no issues there, and will be participating in the Ukrainian Test Skate at the end of August. She will remain in Moscow and Panova will continue to train her. Ukrainian Federation's financing and support, or if there is any, has not come up yet.

The current top Junior and Senior skater in Ukraine is Аnastasia Arkhipova, who is a Junior and National Senior Champion. She skated in several JGP events last few years, never medaled, and received places between 4th and 17th.

Her mother, Larisa Arkhipova, and (many? or plenty) of Ukrainian figure skating fans (on chats/forums) are not happy about Russian skater Shabotova transferring to Ukraine, and "taking the spot of the local girls, raised and born in Ukraine".

Shabotova has had much higher scores and has "top 10 Russian juniors" ranking. She will certainly outskate Arkhipova and other Ukrainian girls, in local events, and will take the spot in Junior, European, and other international events.

This is what Arkhipova's mother posted:
"And in the meantime, Shabotova from Russia, has developed Great love for Ukraine accidentally, and now is coming to our Test Skate. Is it because her sudden great love for Ukraine, or her own hopelessness (from not able to make the top back home)? And yet here we are (ukrainians), and our ridiculous (clownish) efforts (to advance our skating locally), banging our heads against the wall (smashing against the ice like caught fish), not seeing that all we are here is a consumable material to be sooner or later simply trampled on (that sooner or later they will wipe their feet on us)."

Shabotova is not getting a favorable press in the Ukrainian sports publication either.
She is called "a 13-year old with a scandalous reputation is now to skate for Ukraine".
1 year ago Shabotova made jokes about "having to take the right doping in order to win in skating" and got a lash-back for it.

The main point of discussion on ukrainian chats by skating fans is that local ukrainian girls will now not get a chance to compete in International events, because Ukraine has only 1 spot in most events and Shabotova will most likely take it, pushing out the current girl.
 

hanca

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I am not sure why they complain if she is in top ten Russian junior ladies. What would be annoying for me would be if an under average skater came to my country and represented it while being completely useless. Then I think such a skater has no place at Europeans and worlds. But if it is a skater is pretty decent, I wouldn’t complain. I know it sucks for the home grown skaters, but the country has a chance to get some medals, so why complain.

ETA: about the country having only one spot, well, if Shabotova is any good, she will get two spots. If she is not any good, Arkhipova will not have anything to worry about.
 

kwanfan1818

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I am not sure why they complain if she is in top ten Russian junior ladies.
Because she's considered a ringer, with the kind of opportunities that Ukrainian skaters don't have, ie coaching and training conditions.

ETA: about the country having only one spot, well, if Shabotova is any good, she will get two spots. If she is not any good, Arkhipova will not have anything to worry about.
I think the opposite: if Arkhipova ETA:Shabotova doesn't earn two, but is still the top skater in Ukraine, no locals will get any spots, and that will piss people off.
 
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hanca

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Because she's considered a ringer, with the kind of opportunities that Ukrainian skaters don't have, ie coaching and training conditions.


I think the opposite: if Arkhipova doesn't earn two, but is still the top skater in Ukraine, no locals will get any spots, and that will piss people off.
I think you mixed up their names.
But if Shabotova isn’t any good, Arkhipova has nothing to worry about because she could beat her.

I think Ukrainians have the same options like anyone else. Arkhipova could go and train abroad, same as skaters from many other countries.
 

Dobre

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I am not sure why they complain if she is in top ten Russian junior ladies.
Shabotova was only 14th at Russian Junior Nationals this year. Arkhipova's SB score is higher than Shabotova's from that event--by @2 points. (I've no idea how Shabotova skated there as I've never seen her). Arkhipova URs, and my guess is that Shabotova does too because most of the Russian ladies' exports do. But we'll see. The reality is that Arkhipova is going to have to fix her UR issue to be more competitive internationally anyway. Her scores have that tendency to drop a lot upon review. Ukraine needs athletes that are competitive in three events in order to try to climb back into the team competition at the Olympics. (Which could be an argument for bringing someone in for one discipline in order to help earn Olympic opportunities for other local skaters).

It's always hard to know how these kind of things will work out. Sometimes a window opens. Someone walks through & has success. Then someone else sees it and walks right on through the same window and grabs the success. Other times, the local competition raises their game & holds the line or wrestles the spot back. You never know.
 
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ninjapirate

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I have to say, I'm on Arkhipova's side in this. Shabotova is maybe a smidge better but she's had better training environment(though Panova's team does not have near the conditions as Sambo or CSKA). And I don't think that smidge matters too much. I believe that if Arkhipova were in Russia she would be developed into making the JGP Final.

OTOH, Shabotova is not senior eligible for two seasons so Arkhipova will have the opportunity to go to Europeans and Worlds then.

I think they need to help Arkhipova get better training conditions and/or demand Shabotova train somewhere else(maybe not this season but in a season or two).

I wonder what Shabotova relationship is to Ukraine anyway.
 

hanca

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I have to say, I'm on Arkhipova's side in this. Shabotova is maybe a smidge better but she's had better training environment(though Panova's team does not have near the conditions as Sambo or CSKA). And I don't think that smidge matters too much. I believe that if Arkhipova were in Russia she would be developed into making the JGP Final.

OTOH, Shabotova is not senior eligible for two seasons so Arkhipova will have the opportunity to go to Europeans and Worlds then.

I think they need to help Arkhipova get better training conditions and/or demand Shabotova train somewhere else(maybe not this season but in a season or two).

I wonder what Shabotova relationship is to Ukraine anyway.
If Arkhipova is only tiny bit behind Shabotova, she shouldn’t make such a fuss, in my view. It is all in her hands, she can improve and overtake Shabotova. If it wasn’t Shabotova but let’s say Scherbakova, I would understand that she feels she has no chance to compete with her, but it is not like if beating Shabotova is so impossible. Arkhipova is old enough to go abroad for better training, if she is unhappy with the coaching she can get in her country. So demanding that Shabotova trains somewhere else is ridiculous. At the moment, Shabotova is not even senior eligible, so it is not as if she was able to ‘steal’ the spot for Europeans and worlds from Arkhipova. And by the time Shabotova is age eligible, Arkhipova has two years to improve enough to beat her. I think it will actually benefit to their country that there is some internal competition. At least it will be pushing them to work harder.
 

Tinami Amori

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I wonder what Shabotova relationship is to Ukraine anyway.
Nobody yet knows, and her family is not giving details. it is assumed that either one of her parents (or grand-parents) were born in Ukraine (which can be said about half the "russians" including me), or she has some kind of relatives who live in Ukraine (which can be said about half the "russians" including me again)... :lol:

Shabotova had a choice to skate for Israel or any former Soviet republics, or any country that would take her and give her citizenship. Given she had a choice to skate for Israel, that means she has "some jewish blood" in her. "jewish blood" and "ukraine" go hand in hand often, because the "Pale of Settlement" for the jews were pretty much located predominantly in Ukraine, and some in Baltics and Belorussia.
 

rfisher

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There's always the chance Ukraine could get 2 spots at Europeans as a consequence. If Tursy had skated for Russia, Kazakhstan would never have more than one slot at 4CC or Worlds. So, sometimes local skaters profit when others country shop.
 

kwanfan1818

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Lots of things could happen: Arkhipova could win a single spot outright. She could lose it to Shabatova, and then lose the year before the Olympics. She could lose it to someone else. She could melt down, or become ill or injured at the wrong time.

It's not a guarantee, but it's understandable how a skater and/or parent would react the way Arkhipova's did when they get little support from the Fed, and they have been supporting their skater in less than NJ ideal conditions.
 

alchemy void

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However Morozov can be a genius when he sets his mind to it, so I will reserve judgement until we see the programs in a few weeks time!
Morozov has done choreography for Stolbova before, so we have an idea of what he has done for her already. He worked on her programs in the 2014-15, 2015-16, and 2016-17 seasons
I think these are important points that often get lost in the romance angle between Stolbova and Morozov.

FWIW, Stolbova/Klimov's 2015 Man and Shadow LP that Morozov choreographed is brilliant. I still think it's of the best pairs programs ever (if not THE best*): an inspired music choice with a stunning mood maintained, with complimentary modern and angular choreography.

Needless to say I'm excited to see what direction he goes with Stolbova/Novoselov. I'm REALLY trying not to get my hopes up, but not yet succeeding. :lol:

*IJS-era.
 
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alchemy void

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It's not a guarantee, but it's understandable how a skater and/or parent would react the way Arkhipova's did when they get little support from the Fed, and they have been supporting their skater in less than NJ ideal conditions.
I totally agree. I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating this is for Arkhipova and her team, but I am relieved Shabatova still isn't senior-elligible for two seasons. Arkhipova has been one of my favorite junior ladies the past two seasons, and now she has an opportunity to establish herself on the senior level. She can't control this circumstance, and just needs to focus on what she can control. Who knows what Shabatova's jumps will look like in two years, anyways?

I do find it interesting in the past year, we've seen 5 or 6 Russian junior girls switch countries. But before that, there was very little country-hopping, even with a junior field just as deep. Is this a new change of strategy by the Russian fed? Or just a coincidence?

Off the top of my head, these skaters have switched from Russia in the past 12 months:
AZE: Ryabova
AUT: Stomakhina?
BLR: Safonova
FRA: Kuzmenko
POL: Kurakova
UKR: Shabatova

Anyone I'm forgetting?
 

Michalle

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I wonder if it's just that with literally 7-8 women at the top now that all the A's have gone senior competing for Worlds spots that could all contend for gold or at least medals there (Tuk and Sofia are not quite in the gold medal mix barring a shocking turn of events I think and I'm not taking for granted that the former juniors will have smooth transitions - but they at least have the potential) it's sort of hit critical mass in terms of everyone else reading the writing on the wall.
 

Sabine-Yuna

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With the recent releases do we have word if Lena Pavlova is released to skate for 🇩🇪 (w/ Blommaert) by now?
I think this is a process that will take some time. But even if she would be released in the next weeks there could be no chance to skate for Germany internationally this season. You have to be in the German anti-doping test program for at least 6 months. To go to Europeans or make the scores for worlds in time it would not work out.
 

TAHbKA

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Garjieva's interview with Tsurskaya
She have seen a landed 4s3t- `Sasha can do anything'
She probably would have stayed in Omsk and try to get accepted to a uni in Omsk. But she is in Moscow.
She spent her birthday in a training camp as a coach.
She never did additional lessons because there was enough ice time and coach time when she was skating.
FS progressed, in the past at the age of 13 they were supposed to land all triples and about 4-5 people were able to land 3/3 at the Nationals. Now a days the 11y.o. do all the triples and by the time of 12 they have to land a 3/3. FS progresses, not becomes younger, because now kids learn the triples for the quads and not doubles for the triples. Every parent realizes what it means.
For the first two weeks her parents didn't accept that she is doing nothing, they wanted her to return. They are probably happy for her now because she works and is not sitting on the couch.
Tsurskaya was never offered to go ice dancing - it's gorgeous, she likes it, but she wouldn't want to be an ice dancer.
She got accepted to the international economics, she switched to the off site studies because she wants to coach/attend the camps.
The studies are 4 years
She has a cat and a dog
Every athlete writes down a plan for a season together with a coach - which competitions they plan to attend and which place they expect to end up. The plans are sent to the federation and the athletes are trying to fulfill these plans. She doesn't know what happens when the plan is not fulfilled.
 

hanca

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That’s interesting. So she stopped skating because she wanted to study, but now she switched to distance learning so that she can do coaching. It seems it is not as easy to give up skating as she initially thought.
 

Ka3sha

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Short Interview with Arthur Minchuk about Boikova/Kozlovskii and their plans for th upcoming season

They are thinking about adding to 3toe-Euler-3sal combination and 3Lo (as they did in 2017/18 season) in the LP. Will start their season at FinTrophy ( @Hanna ).

Their new long program is to James Bond soundrack, but Minchuk doesn’t specify which compositions were chosen
 
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