From Russia with Love [#31]: Winter to Spring 2019

babayaga

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There was a discussion a couple of pages ago about the difference between training methods and someone explained that Tutberidze (and other Russian coaches) works with groups of skaters. So there is not much individual time, but much more supervised time. I am sure that during group lessons Evgenia was getting more attention from Eteri than anyone else in the group. I already said this before, but seeing Evgenia this year made me realize one thing - Eteri's girls are so successful not only because she makes them work like crazy, but also because she herself is willing to work like crazy with them. The coaches take responsibility for every little detail.
 
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If people in Russia hate Medvedeva then why they give her much support and love at Russian Nationals? No sense is made of that statement. My Russian friends adore her and Tukt.
 

Tinami Amori

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If people in Russia hate Medvedeva then why they give her much support and love at Russian Nationals? No sense is made of that statement. My Russian friends adore her and Tukt.
Nobody said she does not have fans. The issue is that she lost many fans, but not all.
The national polls on most popular athlete, show Zag first, Med second.
Same for Tuk, some love her, and some think she is "rude and lewd".
I am split on Tuk: respect for 3A and getting back to work; don't like her PR-campaign and all that comes with it.
 

babayaga

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If people in Russia hate Medvedeva then why they give her much support and love at Russian Nationals? No sense is made of that statement. My Russian friends adore her and Tukt.
People in Russia don't hate Medvedeva at all it's a myth. She is getting tons of support during competitions, lots of media attention, and praise from FS specialists and former athletes. I am quite surprised to see it as a widespread belief on this board.
 

Tinami Amori

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Never you can comment on technique or back up your points with technical explanations. I doubt you really know how the system work. What is a great outside edge, what is good technique on spins, steps and jumps. All you talk about is results and the life/personalities of skaters. So to me, you're a someone living abroad Russia, in America, bashing in the hand that feed you, and liking to see wonder kids in tights.
And if this is supposedly true, is there a rule that requires FSU posters to make equal amount of commentary on technique, spins and edges vs. social issues and results?... :rofl:

People in Russia don't hate Medvedeva at all it's a myth. She is getting tons of support during competitions, lots of media attention, and praise from FS specialists and former athletes. I am quite surprised to see it as a widespread belief on this board.
She has fans and she also lost fans. Normal situation. providing many many many links to chats/forums/blogs showing comments of her fans, former fans, and anti-fans, would be a waist of space. But there are many opinions.
 

starrynight

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There was a discussion a couple of pages ago about the difference between training methods and someone explained that Tutberidze (and other Russian coaches) works with groups of skaters. So there is not much individual time, but much more supervised time. I am sure that during group lessons Evgenia was getting more attention from Eteri than anyone else in the group. I already said this before, but seeing Evgenia this year made me realize one thing - Eteri's girls are so successful not only because she makes them work like crazy, but also because she herself is willing to work like crazy with them. The coaches take responsibility for every little detail.
Yes, a system where everyone is lined up together and they all go out and train as a group.

I can see how that would work very well when you have a group of skaters all at the same age, gender, level and fitness and with the same goals.

At the same time, if a skater needs something very specific then it would be harder to get that in an ‘all in’ system. E.g. an adult skater whose body can’t do the repetition training that young skaters need to learn jumps and can withstand or a skater managing comprehensive injuries.

I recall Orser saying that the trainings of his different students are very separate and dont impact on each other. E.g. what Medvedeva is doing has no impact on Yuzuru or Jason Brown etc. Whereas I imagine that at Sambo 70 they are all in together and Trusova and Zagitova would know what the other is doing and it would all interact.
 

Tinami Amori

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Whereas I imagine that at Sambo 70 they are all in together and Trusova and Zagitova would know what the other is doing and it would all interact.
That is correct, Sambo girls said themselves in many interviews "when i see the other girl doing it, i want to do it too, or better". The girls also said that because they have elements of competition every day during training, it sometimes help with pressure at regular competitions, because it is a usual state of mind.
 

hanca

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That is correct, Sambo girls said themselves in many interviews "when i see the other girl doing it, i want to do it too, or better". The girls also said that because they have elements of competition every day during training, it sometimes help with pressure at regular competitions, because it is a usual state of mind.
Which is great for motivation if it is let’s say Trusova competing every day at the rink agains Scherbakova and Kostornaya, but not so great if you have with those three also a skater going through the puberty (e.g. Panenkova), or a skater who is injured or recovering from injury (Tsurskaya, Medvedeva). And in a year, or maximum two years we will add to this list also Zagitova. Of course it becomes quite hard for those skaters to keep up, which then affects their confidence. And in skating, confidence is quite important; if one doesn’t believe he/she can land the jumps, the jumps won’t happen.
 

Tinami Amori

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Which is great for motivation if it is let’s say Trusova competing every day at the rink agains Scherbakova and Kostornaya, but not so great if you have with those three also a skater going through the puberty (e.g. Panenkova), or a skater who is injured or recovering from injury (Tsurskaya, Medvedeva). And in a year, or maximum two years we will add to this list also Zagitova. Of course it becomes quite hard for those skaters to keep up, which then affects their confidence. And in skating, confidence is quite important; if one doesn’t believe he/she can land the jumps, the jumps won’t happen.
If one can't keep up with the next generation in sport, one should either accept one's standing or leave. In sports older ones move out, younger stronger come in. If it does not happen inside a sports club, it happens soon after at a competition. I don't understand what people expect? an administrative "knee wack" to the younger and stronger?
 

starrynight

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If one can't keep up with the next generation in sport, one should either accept one's standing or leave. In sports older ones move out, younger stronger come in. If it does not happen inside a sports club, it happens soon after at a competition. I don't understand what people expect? an administrative "knee wack" to the younger and stronger?
Competition is always there. But it doesn’t mean that a one size suits all approach is necessary for training.

Very young skaters probably benefit a lot from repetition training. Doesn’t mean that adults have to train the exact same way or retire.

Aljona Savchenko most likely did not train the same at 34 as she did at 14 for example.
 

Coco

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But bodies at different ages need different training methods.

It's possible to keep up in competition despite practicing differently.

Not to mention, it's a real possibility the 'next generation' won't keep these quads once they are seniors according to the ISU. So why try to keep up with them in practice until they are your actual competition?

On a related note, the ISU really needs to start measuring speed in and out of an element, as well as height and distance of jumps (relative to the skater's height). Number of rotations in the air is just one type of achievement.
 

babayaga

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Yes, a system where everyone is lined up together and they all go out and train as a group.

I can see how that would work very well when you have a group of skaters all at the same age, gender, level and fitness and with the same goals.

At the same time, if a skater needs something very specific then it would be harder to get that in an ‘all in’ system. E.g. an adult skater whose body can’t do the repetition training that young skaters need to learn jumps and can withstand or a skater managing comprehensive injuries.

I recall Orser saying that the trainings of his different students are very separate and dont impact on each other. E.g. what Medvedeva is doing has no impact on Yuzuru or Jason Brown etc. Whereas I imagine that at Sambo 70 they are all in together and Trusova and Zagitova would know what the other is doing and it would all interact.
I don't know how their practices are structured, but I do see individual approach even on the junior level now. Kostornaya did 3A and 3L3Loop last season. Then she grew and lost those jumps, or just lost consistency on them, I don't know. So this season they took them out, replaced with 2A and 3L3T and instead spent lots of time during practices perfecting things she can do. They are obviously working on getting +5 GOE on most of Alena's elements instead.

Scherbakova lost consistency on her 3L3Loop so they replaced it with 3L3T for the Nationals and started training this jump selection instead. Tutberizde seems to be open to simplifying content when necessary even for junior skaters instead of forcing repetition to get the hardest possible content. I don't know, maybe she learned from past mistakes.

Also, you make it sound as if training in Eteri's group is basically practicing jumps with junior skaters. But it seems to be so much more, like perfecting the spin positions and centering, polishing programs with constant coach supervision so that everything looks sparkling.
 

Dobre

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Kostornaya did 3A . . . last season.
When? It what competition? I remember footage or discussion of her doing it this summer and many people saying she would do it this season, but I don't recall her performing one in competition yet. Has she done it in a Russian Cup event or something outside of Nationals or the JGP?
 

babayaga

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When? It what competition? I remember footage or discussion of her doing it this summer and many people saying she would do it this season, but I don't recall her performing one in competition yet. Has she done it in a Russian Cup event or something outside of Nationals or the JGP?
Oh, my bad, you are right. She wasn't doing neither 3 axel nor the loop combo last year. She did all of that in practice videos only. It's looked so effortless that I sort of assumed she is planning to include the jumps this year so it all got mixed up in my head. Thanks for the correction :duh: I still think they are doing a great job with Alena taking a step back and not forcing new things on her when she is growing.
 

Japanfan

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The few “Russian posters” who are popular on this forum, are often to one extend or the other are basically “brown nosing” to “western values” and the “predominant voices” on this forum.
I never thought of you as unpopular, @Tinami Amori. Contentious at times, yes, but not unpopular. :)

Tinami's posts are interesting and informative and she uses links to check what she is saying. Is she biased? Yes! As many other poster here but probably less malicious.
Not to mention, your go-to person for information about travel pretty much anywhere in the world!
 

Mad for Skating

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You know I had thought I remembered that as well, so thank you for posting it. I try not to jump into this persons (Tinami ‘s) type of discussions but I honestly think her/his posts are really nasty and very personal- professing to have all this inside knowledge and contacts and then blabbing on the boards. The comments about Medvedeva are unnecessary- as are the (surprisingly) nasty comments about Kostornaia.
I've learned to just roll with it, but it is very annoying and rude.
 

zebraswan

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The few “Russian posters” who are popular on this forum, are often to one extend or the other are basically “brown nosing” to “western values” and the “predominant voices” on this forum.
Or maybe they just have minds and opinions of their own and are not beholden to ancient stereotypes about "east vs west?" Is it an "eastern value" to be so obsessed with popularity (your own and that of teenage athletes) well into the twilight of your life? I wouldn't have thought so.

On topic - some nice pics of Fedor Klimov and Elena Berezhnaya in "The Nutcracker"

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsJDULJB4lR/

Cast

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsJUechBsJt/

Some fancam video clips here (scroll to the right)

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br7urMyHcY9/

I miss Fedor :(
 
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Vash01

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Or maybe they just have minds and opinions of their own and are not beholden to ancient stereotypes about "east vs west?" Is it an "eastern value" to be so obsessed with popularity (your own and that of teenage athletes) well into the twilight of your life? I wouldn't have thought so.

On topic - some nice pics of Fedor Klimov and Elena Berezhnaya in "The Nutcracker"

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsJDULJB4lR/

Cast

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsJUechBsJt/

Some fancam video clips here (scroll to the right)

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br7urMyHcY9/

I miss Fedor :(
I miss Elena (and Anton and Ksenia)
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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Berezhnaya looks fabulous. She's 41, folks. Fedor look better than I have ever seen him. I wonder if he'd have a different career with someone like Elena - soft, sweet and classical (in terms of their skating style). Ksenia is still the Queen of course, but this did make me wonder.
 

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