From Russia with Love [#31]: Winter to Spring 2019

D

Deleted member 40371

Guest
Historically, in terms of results, the Russian system would be the superior one - although the methods and 'factory-like approach it entails are sometimes questionable, and wouldn't work in the west.

That's way it was such a big deal for Team Canada to take gold in 2018. :cheer2:
I am surprised at the so call of factory like approach comes from, Russia still got the likes of Leonova still competiting and top of that many of that Russians have a pension system available for its elite athletes. The Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling...
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,110
She also accused the Russian posters here of "brownnosing" Westerners anytime they do not go along with her train of thought. Pure Soviet mentality - no dissenters allowed. You are with us or against us. That era has been over for decades. It's really bizarre.

;) it's not just "russians to westerners".. some "westerners" on russian-language political chats do the same. people want to be liked and accepted; when people join a "group with a prevailing popular view" they are likely to adopt those views to be accepted and liked. FSU is english language, majority of posters "western", there has always been (last 16 years?) a negative skew on russia, etc...
there is plenty of stuff out there on "why people join the crowd"..:puppet:, here is a first one that popped up..
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...he-science-behind-why-people-follow-the-crowd
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,283
I am surprised at the so call of factory like approach comes from, Russia still got the likes of Leonova still competiting and top of that many of that Russians have a pension system available for its elite athletes. The Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling...
I am sure there was one coach people have in mind and not the whole country :rolleyes:

And while we are on the subject of psychology: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/beautiful-minds/201210/the-pesky-persistence-labels?amp

The tendency to categorize and label people you don’t really know is powerful, isn’t it?
 
Last edited:

taz'smum

as @Jesche says - мама knows best
Messages
2,548
I am surprised at the so call of factory like approach comes from, Russia still got the likes of Leonova still competiting and top of that many of that Russians have a pension system available for its elite athletes. The Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling...

I agree, as the mum of a Russian athlete, I see no evidence of a factory like approach and yes Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling, thank goodness! ;)
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,110
I am surprised at the so call of factory like approach comes from, Russia still got the likes of Leonova still competiting and top of that many of that Russians have a pension system available for its elite athletes. The Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling...

I agree, as the mum of a Russian athlete, I see no evidence of a factory like approach and yes Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling, thank goodness! ;)

:smokin: but it does not matter what the facts are and the personal experience... Russians are a dominant force in figure skating since 1960's; Russia is "not like what westerners want it to be/act"; if something good is happening in a place one does not approve of, then "something good in that country" must come from something "wrong/evil"... :D
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,325
When there was no financial support there for a number of years, the athletes coming up really struggled. It hit different disciplines at different times, of course. But it was and is pretty clear that funding played a major role in the dominance of Soviet sports and has played a major role in the resurgence of success for Russian figure skating.

I am glad the Russian athletes today are well funded. And also happy for athletes from various other countries when they receive financial support to do what they love. But there is quite clearly a connection there, and I do not blame countries who feel that their resources should go toward other avenues.
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,283
I wonder what it means when so many hostile Westerners like Russian skaters like say, Kolyada, Kostornaia, and the young Daniil Samsonov. Two of these being the students of the evil Eteri! Talk about a cognitive dissonance!
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,283
I am confused 6 million rubles is more than 10,000 usd, more like 91,000 usd
Yes, but who cares about facts. RusFed pays for competition related travel and accommodations for the top skaters. Gorshkov had said several times they do NOT pay Brian’s fees. On the subject of the ridiculous rumors of $90k/month for Med he simply said “We don’t have this kind of money. This isn’t hockey or soccer.”

And I thought I had problems with maths :D
 

Mad for Skating

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,885
Btw, I am kinda sorry for Sotskova.
After that bad season with its worst highlight at nationals, I thought, Universiade could be some nice chance of redemption and a great farewell for her in front of her home crowd(if she is not deciding to continue).

I need to get that hard-crying last image of her outta my mind :(

Please, let me forget in peace 😭

Ha- I don’t frequent the gossip sites or devote life to getting the goods and drama to knowing all things Russian. I think her skating is juniorish. Choreography very junior . If you disagree that’s fine. But doesn’t change opinions of others

You don’t have to like her. I just said I think she’s earned her spot this year.

"Lady Perfection"?

The line is “Practically perfect in every way”.

I am glad you said this. It explains a lot. And it's wrong on so many levels.

1. This is not the Cold War. Politics and click-bait media on both sides aside, people are smarter than this. You think that 'western figure skating fans" are idiots. We are not.

2. Athletes are not viewed as a representation of a "system". This is not 1981. Fans get emotionally attached to skaters from different countries, because we get to see them grow, develop, and go through ups and downs. Our preferences have nothing to do with the Western or Russian "skating methods."

3. Medvedeva is not a representation of anything, other than herself. She is a teenage girl who grew up in front of our eyes, and has dealt with major success and disappointments. We root for her because we like her, and we like a good come back story. She is brave and courageous, and a lovely skater. What's not to love?

4. There is literally no one more respected in the skating community than Moskvina and Mishin. Russian coaches. Eteri's method's are questioned because they are questionable. The factory-like approach to little girls, and not beeing able to sustain success past 17 yo. is a problem in any training system. This is not about nationality.

5. You hugely overestimate the nationalistic and political aspects of fandom. Alex Ovechkin (a Putin supporter) is one of the most popular athletes in North America. ESPN male athlete of the year, the first hockey player to get the honor. Ovechkin's jersey is the best selling one in the NHL. He is beloved regardless of nationality, training methods, or politics.

As fans, we love who we love. Canadian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese. While xenophobic bigots exist everywhere, you think that all of us, "Westerns skating fans" are such bigots. Personally, I couldn't care less about national superiority. I like nice dresses, pretty music, strong jumps, cute smiles, lovely spins, and happy skaters. It's that simple.

Thank you for this! I watch skating strictly for skating, not politics. I like some skaters who are Russian, some who are Chinese, some who are American, some who are Japanese, and so on. Tinami, it’s not that deep! It’s just figure skating!

Triple axel and triple axel-double axel sequence from Tuktamysheva

https://twitter.com/tuktikliza/status/1101474220041740288?s=21

Go get that spot next year, Empress!

Tinami is a master of projection. And definitely stuck in some bygone faraway era, as her cultural references (Charo???) plainly show. I wonder how she gets an internet connnection from her cave...

She also accused the Russian posters here of "brownnosing" Westerners anytime they do not go along with her train of thought. Pure Soviet mentality - no dissenters allowed. You are with us or against us. That era has been over for decades. It's really bizarre.

I would call her out, but I don’t want her to turn me over to her KGB friends. Stalin will put me in a Gulag.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,311
I am surprised at the so call of factory like approach comes from, Russia still got the likes of Leonova still competiting and top of that many of that Russians have a pension system available for its elite athletes. The Russia does support its athletes even when they are struggling...
It's not the Russian system that's factory-like. I would say it's the opposite; skaters get a lot of supports, and many coaches develop strong relationships with their students. But Tutberidze's school is a factory. To be fair, some girls come out of it with fame, medals and endorsements (at least for a couple of years). The factory comment is about an individual not a country.
 

NAOTMAA

Well-Known Member
Messages
893
Producing a large number doesn't make Eteri a factory. If it was then all the girls would fit the same cookie cutter mold. They would have the same uniform style and have the exact same strengths and weaknesses but in fact its the compete opposite. Each girl has their own distinct look, personality, their own strength they're known for and thing they have to work harder on. The only similarity would be jump technique and a few other little flourishes but that's true for all coaches that have coached multiple athletes over the years or at the same time (for instance you can tell what a Moskvina pair looks like or who a Mishin student is without even looking twice). If anything her team should be applauded for crafting each skater their own individual thing despite having so many others to deal with at the same time.
 

VenusH.

Active Member
Messages
84
Producing a large number doesn't make Eteri a factory. If it was then all the girls would fit the same cookie cutter mold. They would have the same uniform style and have the exact same strengths and weaknesses but in fact its the compete opposite. Each girl has their own distinct look, personality, their own strength they're known for and thing they have to work harder on. The only similarity would be jump technique and a few other little flourishes but that's true for all coaches that have coached multiple athletes over the years or at the same time (for instance you can tell what a Moskvina pair looks like or who a Mishin student is without even looking twice). If anything her team should be applauded for crafting each skater their own individual thing despite having so many others to deal with at the same time.

You can tell Eteri program by being rushed and skater not being allowed to hold position for more than 2 seconds.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
50,355
You can tell Eteri program by being rushed and skater not being allowed to hold position for more than 2 seconds.

...and you can tell every Moskvina program from the creative choreography, and every Mishin program from the great jump technique of the skater. Every coach has his/her strengths and weaknesses/limitations. Why criticize only Eteri ? (if that was your intention)
 

Polaris

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,216
Producing a large number doesn't make Eteri a factory. If it was then all the girls would fit the same cookie cutter mold. They would have the same uniform style and have the exact same strengths and weaknesses but in fact its the compete opposite.

They all don't last.
 

Holy Headband

Matthew Markell's hypewoman
Messages
583
I wonder what it means when so many hostile Westerners like Russian skaters like say, Kolyada, Kostornaia, and the young Daniil Samsonov. Two of these being the students of the evil Eteri! Talk about a cognitive dissonance!

God, no one cares. 'Hostile Westerners' is a trope that serves to inflate Russian people's sense of their own country's geopolitical importance to make up for the decline in living standards that gets reproduced in other walks of life, such as here apparently. In reality, very few figure skating fans feel disinclined to root for Russian skaters for political reasons. (Pee tape-obsessed Americans who see themselves as part of the #Resistance may feel differently, but they rarely watch this sport.) Liking Kostornaia or Kolyada--Samsonov is unwatchable--does not destabilise anyone's sense of self!
 

mjb52

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,278
God, no one cares. 'Hostile Westerners' is a trope that serves to inflate Russian people's sense of their own country's geopolitical importance to make up for the decline in living standards that gets reproduced in other walks of life, such as here apparently. In reality, very few figure skating fans feel disinclined to root for Russian skaters for political reasons. (Pee tape-obsessed Americans who see themselves as part of the #Resistance may feel differently, but they rarely watch this sport.) Don't flatter yourself.
I think you missed the sarcasm in her post. You're just making the same point she was.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,311
God, no one cares. 'Hostile Westerners' is a trope that serves to inflate Russian people's sense of their own country's geopolitical importance to make up for the decline in living standards that gets reproduced in other walks of life, such as here apparently. In reality, very few figure skating fans feel disinclined to root for Russian skaters for political reasons. (Pee tape-obsessed Americans who see themselves as part of the #Resistance may feel differently, but they rarely watch this sport.) Liking Kostornaia or Kolyada--Samsonov is unwatchable--does not destabilise anyone's sense of self!
Yes, and that's exactly what she meant.
 

Cherub721

YEAH!
Messages
16,902
Is Stolbova serious about her comeback? Are they training and working out his eligibility to skate for Russia? Haven't heard anything since the announcement at the test skates.
 

lala

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,808
Some clarifications

Did Medveda win the Olympics thanks to Tarasova's power? It seems she didn't.
Was Plushenko sent to the Sochi Olympics thanks to Tarasova's power? :) I guess you don't think so. Plushenko didn't have to compete for that. Do you know that joke? "In what competitions does Plushenko plan to participate?" "In closed skates". (a closed skate is a special event where Plushenko skates, but almost nobody can see his skating)

1. If I right remember TAT didn't have one word against Plushenko face to face then... She supported him probably Tarasova understood why the Rus Fed wanted to send him to Sochi. She asked a plus spot from the IOC for her pupil.

2. Plushenko skated front of the whole coach counsil they voted to him.

But if you wanted to say that was very unusual I'm sying yes.
 
Last edited:

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,110
10,000 dollars makes about 680,000 rubles, not 6 million
It was me who left out a "0" in the USD exchange, not the sports observer. He did say 6 million per month, and he had no ill intentions, he was actually "protecting the decision" but ended up opening a can of worms.

And now "xxxx hit the fence" and the Russian Figure Skating Federation had to make an official announcement "that they are not spending that much" and give an explanation "what they are paying for". They've done it before, it is was always a very unclear information. RFSF says one thing, the Rink Club another, and Russian Sports Ministry something else. They don't conflict, but it is all very "cloudy" information.

Here is the last official statement (in reaction to the interview, posted above):
https://www.fsrussia.ru/news/4275-o...a-podgotovku-evgenii-medvedevoj-v-kanade.html
 

DobrinFan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,014
New interview:
Egor Murashov: In Search of the Golden Key
https://www.fsrussia.ru/intervyu/4278-egor-murashov-v-poiskakh-zolotogo-klyucha.html
This season, Egor Murashov, in one of his programs, is trying to tell his wooden doll story on the ice - Pinocchio. The figure skater looks like this fairy-tale hero: big eyes, a glance looking inward, and the “broken” choreographic lines in the program only emphasize the similarity with the character.

This year, Egor combines performances at the junior and adult levels. The other day in Innsbruck, Austria, Murashov won a bronze medal. This season, goals and dreams and the search for his "golden key", which will help to achieve success not only in sports - in life, Egor said in an interview with the website of the figure skating school.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information