From Russia with Love [#31]: Winter to Spring 2019

DobrinFan

Well-Known Member
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4,014
Btw, I am kinda sorry for Sotskova.
After that bad season with its worst highlight at nationals, I thought, Universiade could be some nice chance of redemption and a great farewell for her in front of her home crowd(if she is not deciding to continue).

I need to get that hard-crying last image of her outta my mind :(

Uh, they need to come out with this entry list because Samokhvalov just today said Maria is going. Post was even liked by Maria's mother.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bua42zTnNa-/
Medvedeva vs. Zagitova, Medvedeva vs. Tuktamysheva, Medvedeva ... It’s time to take a break before Saitama and get accustomed to Masha and Stas. Universiade without war!
 
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Tinami Amori

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20,110
Uh, they need to come out with this entry list because Samokhvalov just today said Maria is going. Post was even liked by Maria's mother.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bua42zTnNa-/
.... wow! i could see Tuk being so upset that she sees no reason to go to this event. She is skating SOI Japan though... (i hope she does).

This is about the first time i see so many sports journalists coming to Liza's defense, calling the situation "mafia games", "Liza has been deceived/misled! she is right to be upset.", and making direct accusations against RFSF and "team-Med"... here is one more.
https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...ossii-elizaveta-tuktamysheva-skandal-1517820/

Japanese fan made a doll for Tuk.. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0a1iugUYAAN4-n.jpg
 
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Finsta

Well-Known Member
Messages
338
Curious. Why is it wrong for Russian press to bash/insult/harass Zagitova but okay and funny when they do it to Medvedeva or even Tukt? Seems people post these gossip articles with glee. Are any Russian reporters credible? Or just big gossip?
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
50,358
.... wow! i could see Tuk being so upset that she sees no reason to go to this event. She is skating SOI Japan though... (i hope she does).

This is about the first time i see so many sports journalists coming to Liza's defense, calling the situation "mafia games", "Liza has been deceived/misled! she is right to be upset.", and making direct accusations against RFSF and "team-Med"... here is one more.
https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...ossii-elizaveta-tuktamysheva-skandal-1517820/

Japanese fan made a doll for Tuk.. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0a1iugUYAAN4-n.jpg

How sweet of the Japanese fan!
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,110
Curious. Why is it wrong for Russian press to bash/insult/harass Zagitova but okay and funny when they do it to Medvedeva or even Tukt? Seems people post these gossip articles with glee. Are any Russian reporters credible? Or just big gossip?

I and my skating fans friends have been following "the media" this season very close, and the take on it is this:

- As everywhere there is "media" that tries to create sensation for readership, and that falls on all top russian skaters.
- There are journalists who have either personal reason, or are paid for/instructed/enticed to give a negative or a positive twist against a particular skater or coach, or both. It's called "заказаная статья", "arranged article".
- Then there are interviews with skaters/coaches/officials and the later ones have their own "agenda" pro or against someone. In such case a journalist asks a question, can't control the answer, which can be very harsh.
- Some times a journalist (who has his/her own agenda) will ask leading questions.
- Then there are journalists/sports reporters who get simply outraged over a situation, and they write their own opinions, without any influence.
- And there are those who "speak neutrally" trying to analyse but then end up giving away some details which show problems, or say something unintentionally which raises a storm...

For example this video discussion between show hosts and sports journalists:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeWl-MJIfqo

In this video, a sports observer, Sergey Dadygin, from kp.ru, without any intention to cause a problem, actually defending Federation's decision, disclosed the following information.

He does not know what the fuss is all about, that Med is selected. It was known from the start that (his own words) no matter what happens during the season, Medvedeva will be sent to the Worlds. How could they not? Medvedeva's costs (in Canada) per month, is $6,000,000" (6 mil) Rubles ($10,000 USD). If they (RFSF) does not some how justifies this expense to the Russian Sports Ministry, they will be in big trouble.

That of course brought a lot of speculations that "russian officials" are probably getting either kick-backs, or there is some kind of benefits being passed to them. Which puts Tarasova on the spot, too, because she is pushing Medvedeva up everyone's "xxxx", including judges and officials, and has some "press" to push through her agenda.

When such issues arise, uncomfortable discussions take place... And those questions brought up by some media are:
- Why was Tuktamysheva/Mishin strung along, given hope, when officials in RFSF knew their decision/pref. in advance
- Why did they start this circus with "Russian Cup Finals" and dragged Liza/Mishin into it only to "lose" when all the judges where set to put Medvedeva in 1st place.
- and why are Feds twisting facts, saying "it was based on sports principles", when it was based on money, sponsors, and politics?
 
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Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
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20,110
Will there be a happier person than Tinami if Medvedeva bombs at the worlds? I think not.

What some "western figure skating fans" want to see represented by Medvedeva's move to Canada, is a confirmation of "North American superior skating methods".

What they got instead, represented by Medvedeva and Co, is a confirmation of "Russian superior corruption/manipulation practices".

:D
 

Loves_Shizuka

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,543
I disagree. If they already knew they wanted Medvedeva, they would’ve announced the team as soon as the RCF concluded. The result was clearly unexpected and engendered so much discussion and confusion that they had to cope with the ISU deadline in a really chaotic way.

If Liza had won, I’m sure they would’ve picked her without hesitating. Or if Med would’ve won without any errors, that would’ve been an easy decision too.

I don't know... I hope you're right.

I thought it was going to be Medvedeva all along. I thought it before the Cup final, and definitely afterwards.

Maybe the fed were surprised by Med's poor early season combined with Zag's struggles, for Tuk to have a great GP and for Samo to win Euros. All this put together made it a bit sticky. I think all Med needed was one solid outing before Worlds to give them the team they had in mind. That's fine. And to be fair, she delivered for them. I think it was easier for the fed to say we pick Med because she won the Russian Cup final rather than basing it off finishing 7th at Nats.
 
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Meoima

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4,710
He does not know what the fuss is all about, that Med is selected. It was known from the start that (his own words) no matter what happens during the season, Medvedeva will be sent to the Worlds. How could they not? Medvedeva's costs (in Canada) per month, is $6,000,000" (6 mil) Rubles ($10,000 USD). If they (RFSF) does not some how justifies this expense to the Russian Sports Ministry, they will be in big trouble.
As far as I know, from all the official sources, Medvedeva and the Federation say the Federation pays for her apartment only. There is no official news says that they pay for her coaching fees. From all the things I have read, Medvedeva pays the TCC herself.
She does not live in a hotel. I can not see how the Federation spend $10,000 on her each month. No average apartment is at that price.
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
17,537
Curious. Why is it wrong for Russian press to bash/insult/harass Zagitova but okay and funny when they do it to Medvedeva or even Tukt? Seems people post these gossip articles with glee.
Zagitova is underage, hence the media cant write sex and Zagitova in the same sentence. She also never became a newsmaker despite being an Olympic champion. Medvedeva had been a newsmaker ever since 2017 - she was the main hope for the Olympics and all the pre Olympic crazyness was about her. Tuktamysheva was all over the tabloids with her recent gala programme
Are any Russian reporters credible? Or just big gossip?
Yes. Vaytsekhovskaya, Ermolina, Samokhvalov, Simonenki, Sovetova, Khodorovski just to name a few off the top of my head. Those are the ones who are usually being translated. Of course there are Dadygin and Verner, on the other hand, who mainly focus on the female skaters bra size or come up with relationships and feelings that never happened or post ‘interviews’ that took place in their heads only.
 

zoe111

Well-Known Member
Messages
523
What some "western figure skating fans" want to see represented by Medvedeva's move to Canada, is a confirmation of "North American superior skating methods".

What they got instead, represented by Medvedeva and Co, is a confirmation of "Russian superior corruption/manipulation practices".

:D
I totally disagree with this. I’m a western skating fan and I really like all the Russian skaters. I don’t care where Medvedeva or any of the rest of them train. I feel like what everyone is forgetting is that Med had two bad competitions in her gp’s this year and one bad short at Russian nationals- in 3 years. Tuk has been way way more up and down and is nowhere near the skater Med is. The Russian cup final judging didn’t seem biased at all to Med in my opinion. Liza had a jarring mistake in the short and was gifted pcs in order to keep her in contention for the free. She was massively overscored in free in pcs but she still made a few mistakes in the jumps and is much weaker than med in the spins. It wasn’t enough to win. Med made one mistake in the free only but it cost her 7 points or so- very costly. But she looks much better and solid than she did. I don’t see a fix. I’m sure there was campaigning on both sides, not just Med’s. But she’s now seen as a traitor for training outside Russia and so she gets skewered. I think it’s disgraceful
 

Rina RUS

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992
What happened to Totiana/
another skating injury, just before New Year (like previous time), either during a show or at practice (don't remember).

It is not "another injury". It is the 5th surgery because of that injury which Tatiana had a year ago (in a show, at New Year time). The 4th surgery was in April... Yet her leg had merged wrongly, she skated through the pain (they didn't tell that), then she had a planned surgery.
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
992
The sport really needs to consider some way that Grand Prix final medalists or medalists from the previous World Championships or Olympics can get direct entry to the short program at Worlds in addition to the maximum number of skaters their country is sending. Only the maximum number from that country can proceed to the free skate. So if there's four skaters from Russia and they qualified three spots from the previous year, the highest three Russian finishers in the short program go to the free skate & the fourth place Russian is done.

:) By the way, why do you think you'll have only 4 athletes from Russia with such rules? You can have 6 skaters from one strong country or... even more (theoretically). For example, 2 skaters who medaled at Olympics + 1 skater who medaled at Grand Prix final + 3 skaters chosen by the country (if they'd like to choose another 3 skaters)
 

Rina RUS

Well-Known Member
Messages
992
What some "western figure skating fans" want to see represented by Medvedeva's move to Canada, is a confirmation of "North American superior skating methods

Tutberidze is strong, but Tutberidze isn't the only coach in Russia. It seems Mishin who worked not only with teenagers, still can teach new athletes. So I don't get why Orser's possible success would be "a confirmation of North American superior skating methods" :)

What they got instead, represented by Medvedeva and Co, is a confirmation of "Russian superior corruption/manipulation practices".

It is weird, that you picture, that Tarasova and Medvedeva are huge spiders, but Mishin is "an innocent bystander". I don't want to blame Mishin. I only say, that your position is ridiculous. :)

Did Medveda win the Olympics thanks to Tarasova's power? It seems she didn't.
Was Plushenko sent to the Sochi Olympics thanks to Tarasova's power? :) I guess you don't think so. Plushenko didn't have to compete for that. Do you know that joke? "In what competitions does Plushenko plan to participate?" "In closed skates". (a closed skate is a special event where Plushenko skates, but almost nobody can see his skating)

Tarasova stood next to the judges’ panel while Med skated and while not talking to them directly, made very loud comments
OK. I trust it is true. Is that all? :)

As for Mishin... After Salt Lake City Plushenko started to say, that he had fallen because Zagainov had looked at him. Yagudin says, Mishin tried to do the same more than once: Mishin used to stand in that corner where Yagudin had to do an important jump. Yagudin says Mishin came to Yagudin's training before a competition even if Evgeni didn't have a training at the same time. We can't check this info, but I don't think, that Yagudin can lie about Salt Lake City (where many people could see it): at the Olympics Mishin was standing in that corner again, when Yagudin had to skate.

I don't want to blame (to discuss) Mishin. I just say, that it is ridiculous, that now you picture, that "manipulation practices" are organised by Tarasova. (or Medvedeva)

it's Russia... :nopryde:
I live in Russia. We are fine, thank you. :)
 
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Perky Shae Lynn

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Messages
2,311
What some "western figure skating fans" want to see represented by Medvedeva's move to Canada, is a confirmation of "North American superior skating methods".

What they got instead, represented by Medvedeva and Co, is a confirmation of "Russian superior corruption/manipulation practices".

:D
I am glad you said this. It explains a lot. And it's wrong on so many levels.

1. This is not the Cold War. Politics and click-bait media on both sides aside, people are smarter than this. You think that 'western figure skating fans" are idiots. We are not.

2. Athletes are not viewed as a representation of a "system". This is not 1981. Fans get emotionally attached to skaters from different countries, because we get to see them grow, develop, and go through ups and downs. Our preferences have nothing to do with the Western or Russian "skating methods."

3. Medvedeva is not a representation of anything, other than herself. She is a teenage girl who grew up in front of our eyes, and has dealt with major success and disappointments. We root for her because we like her, and we like a good come back story. She is brave and courageous, and a lovely skater. What's not to love?

4. There is literally no one more respected in the skating community than Moskvina and Mishin. Russian coaches. Eteri's method's are questioned because they are questionable. The factory-like approach to little girls, and not beeing able to sustain success past 17 yo. is a problem in any training system. This is not about nationality.

5. You hugely overestimate the nationalistic and political aspects of fandom. Alex Ovechkin (a Putin supporter) is one of the most popular athletes in North America. ESPN male athlete of the year, the first hockey player to get the honor. Ovechkin's jersey is the best selling one in the NHL. He is beloved regardless of nationality, training methods, or politics.

As fans, we love who we love. Canadian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese. While xenophobic bigots exist everywhere, you think that all of us, "Westerns skating fans" are such bigots. Personally, I couldn't care less about national superiority. I like nice dresses, pretty music, strong jumps, cute smiles, lovely spins, and happy skaters. It's that simple.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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15,776
:) By the way, why do you think you'll have only 4 athletes from Russia with such rules? You can have 6 skaters from one strong country or... even more (theoretically). For example, 2 skaters who medaled at Olympics + 1 skater who medaled at Grand Prix final + 3 skaters chosen by the country (if they'd like to choose another 3 skaters)

I know! They could enter as many as they qualify.

To address what @Dobre said, in my fantasy land...the "extra" skaters who aren't in the top 3 finishers for their country (or top 2 if their country only has 2 spots, or the top finisher if their country only has 1 spot) will not compete in the FS and their placement will not count overall. They will all get the 16(?) points that others who don't qualify to the FS get.

So their presence won't impact or change the placement of skaters from other countries. Their presence might impact what group a skater starts in, but perhaps - since we're making all this up :) - skaters who qualify directly to worlds by their results in prior international competitions can be designated to skate in the 1st group for the SP. If there are more skaters/couples than spots in the 1st group, they can spill over to the 2nd group.
 

starrynight

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2,677

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,189
As fans, we love who we love. Canadian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese. While xenophobic bigots exist everywhere, you think that all of us, "Westerns skating fans" are such bigots. Personally, I couldn't care less about national superiority. I like nice dresses, pretty music, strong jumps, cute smiles, lovely spins, and happy skaters. It's that simple.

Tinami is a master of projection. And definitely stuck in some bygone faraway era, as her cultural references (Charo???) plainly show. I wonder how she gets an internet connnection from her cave...

She also accused the Russian posters here of "brownnosing" Westerners anytime they do not go along with her train of thought. Pure Soviet mentality - no dissenters allowed. You are with us or against us. That era has been over for decades. It's really bizarre.
 

Lizziebeth

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,337
I feel a little sad for Medvedeva because she got injured in the year of the Olympic games and could not get back to full health before the games. That must have been terrible for her. She still finished second by a small margin. I suspect she will do well at worlds.

I have great respect for Liza T because of her excellent jumps. But I have trouble being a total fan of her because there is not much else about her skating that is interesting to me. Not going to worlds must really hurt after she has had a good comeback season.

Wish they could both have gone to worlds.
 

missing

Well-Known To Whom She Wonders
Messages
3,924
I am glad you said this. It explains a lot. And it's wrong on so many levels.

1. This is not the Cold War. Politics and click-bait media on both sides aside, people are smarter than this. You think that 'western figure skating fans" are idiots. We are not.

2. Athletes are not viewed as a representation of a "system". This is not 1981. Fans get emotionally attached to skaters from different countries, because we get to see them grow, develop, and go through ups and downs. Our preferences have nothing to do with the Western or Russian "skating methods."

3. Medvedeva is not a representation of anything, other than herself. She is a teenage girl who grew up in front of our eyes, and has dealt with major success and disappointments. We root for her because we like her, and we like a good come back story. She is brave and courageous, and a lovely skater. What's not to love?

4. There is literally no one more respected in the skating community than Moskvina and Mishin. Russian coaches. Eteri's method's are questioned because they are questionable. The factory-like approach to little girls, and not beeing able to sustain success past 17 yo. is a problem in any training system. This is not about nationality.

5. You hugely overestimate the nationalistic and political aspects of fandom. Alex Ovechkin (a Putin supporter) is one of the most popular athletes in North America. ESPN male athlete of the year, the first hockey player to get the honor. Ovechkin's jersey is the best selling one in the NHL. He is beloved regardless of nationality, training methods, or politics.

As fans, we love who we love. Canadian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese. While xenophobic bigots exist everywhere, you think that all of us, "Westerns skating fans" are such bigots. Personally, I couldn't care less about national superiority. I like nice dresses, pretty music, strong jumps, cute smiles, lovely spins, and happy skaters. It's that simple.

I think nationalistic and political aspects of fandom and alive and well and there's nothing wrong with them. The popularity at FSU of threads about Canadian skaters and American skaters indicate people care about what nation certain skaters come from. The regular references to Hanyu's Japanese fans being willing to travel across the Pacific to see him compete suggest that those fans have, in addition to admiration for his skills and his appearance, an additional national pride identification with him. And to be honest, one reason I don't always care for his programs (and therefore him) is because of his "nice dresses." Some of his Johnny Weir inspired outfits set my teeth on edge.

Politics also factor in and are just as valid as cute smiles. I have a friend who finds it very difficult to root for Vincent Zhao because he went to the White House with other Olympic athletes. There may well be skating fans who root for him because he did go.

Nor is fandom a constant. I read a lot of posts at FSU from 2016-17 expressing disdain for Medvedeva's programs and skating style. People didn't necessarily like her miming. She was undoubtedly "brave and courageous and a lovely skater" then, since as best I can tell all figure skaters are brave and courageous, and few of them are truly ugly and klutzy (one or the other maybe, but probably not both). There was an appreciation for her Anna Karenina program, perhaps because George Bush didn't do vocals during it (another political reason why some people didn't care for her). It could be some people like her more because she made what was undoubtedly a very difficult move away from her Russian home to work with Brian Orser. It could also be some people like her less for having done so.

There's no One Right Way for fandom. I truly don't understand why people think that there is or that there should be.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,677
Is Tuktamysheva still going to Universiade? She said under the video where she did the 3A, 3A-2A that she was hoping to show a two triple axel free skate this season. So maybe she intends to keep doing competitions to see what she can achieve, even if she hasn't been named to the Worlds team?
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
24,152
What some "western figure skating fans" want to see represented by Medvedeva's move to Canada, is a confirmation of "North American superior skating methods".

What they got instead, represented by Medvedeva and Co, is a confirmation of "Russian superior corruption/manipulation practices".
:D

Historically, in terms of results, the Russian system would be the superior one - although the methods and 'factory-like approach it entails are sometimes questionable, and wouldn't work in the west.

That's way it was such a big deal for Team Canada to take gold in 2018. :cheer2:
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,283
She also accused the Russian posters here of "brownnosing" Westerners anytime they do not go along with her train of thought. Pure Soviet mentality - no dissenters allowed. You are with us or against us. That era has been over for decades. It's really bizarre.
I can attest to this being true.

Also, there’s no such thing as the Russian method :p It is obvious to the most casual observer that say Mishin has a very different approach than Eteri. And so on
 
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