vesperholly
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 12,826
nevermind, better counter arguments than mine already presented
And there we have it. It's so obvious that several of the posters here are hiding behind a bunch of other reasons when that is the only issue they really have. Every country has different rules. There were plenty of people in the audience at Russian events with no masks at all - obviously it isn't enforced there as absolute rule. If everyone is being tested and monitored and having to wear masks while at Worlds, then I don't get your deal. Here's a news flash: a lot of skaters outside of Russia and a lot of people in general are doing a lot more than barricading themselves at home. Brendan Kerry, for starters? Should he have been banned pre-injury? Or do you get to pick and choose?I don't think Worlds should go ahead at all. But if they are stupid enough to forge ahead with it, then the Russians shouldn't be allowed to come. They don't get to put other countries' skaters, coaches and officials at risk because they've decided the rules don't apply to them. I think it's laughable that you think the Worlds team is magically exempt from all the risk-taking, rule-breaking behaviour we've seen this season when they're a big part of it! How many times have we seen Mishin shoving his mask down under his chin? Queen Tuk, much as I love her, was one of the skaters happily hugging and kissing other skaters at the illicit banquet.
No, most people are hiding behind pathetic reasons and I've been saying this is surely their real reason for a few weeks now. Finally you are the first to admit it at FSU as far as I know, and the comments on Jackie's post are finally coming around to that, too. But WTF are people doing complaining about Russians being banned when Jackie and others are trying to pass it off like skaters don't want to go/are being forced? You know the skaters don't feel that way, don't try to claim such.The main reason people are concerned about the Russians is because we know the ISU won't have the spine to do anything about it if they do come and start breaking rules. They didn't have the spine to do anything about Rostelecom, after all. I'd be less worried if the ISU came out with a hardline stance after Rostelecom and removed the accreditation from the event and said look, there will be consequences if you don't adhere. But they didn't. Does anyone really think that if one of the big-name Russian coaches refused to wear their mask properly at Worlds they'd be thrown out? Or what if it's one of the skaters? Do you really think, for example, that if Kolyada refused to wear his mask he would be disqualified from the event?
You don't live here. I do. The rules are still the same in planes and airports. I've asked twice- do you think she was really making a scene about not wearing a mask throughout her journeys?Your example about Tutberidze going to Florida just made me laugh because let's be honest, she wouldn't need to kick up a fuss about wearing a mask in Florida.
Forget the Russians for a minute.And there we have it. It's so obvious that several of the posters here are hiding behind a bunch of other reasons when that is the only issue they really have. Every country has different rules. There were plenty of people in the audience at Russian events with no masks at all - obviously it isn't enforced there as absolute rule. If everyone is being tested and monitored and having to wear masks while at Worlds, then I don't get your deal.
So about Brendan Kerry, should he have been banned pre-Worlds as well for what was shared through social media? Or just Russians?Forget the Russians for a minute.
I don't think Worlds should go ahead anyway.
If you'd actually read my posts - for quite a number of weeks now on the subject - my objection is actually, primarily, Sweden. One of the most incompetent and irresponsible responses to the pan-demic, who have still been resisting proper measures and only just started doing it, and where numbers are going up.
But I also don't think it's right to just dismiss the very real concerns about the behaviour of the Russian skaters and coaches as just some kind of partisan behaviour, either.
By the way guys, just because some sports are going ahead - doesn't mean it's not stupid for them to do it!
Source? According to this Sweden continues to leave the other nordic countries in the dust in current cases and deaths. Likely why some of the athletes are sharing their concerns knowing as a country its not exactly putting safety first? I say this as someone who is looking forward to Worlds and still hopes it happens but I also appreciate concerns raised by Jackie. This is not like US Nationals that did an excellent job with strict protocols etc this is Sweden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-coronavirus-cases-in-the-nordics/Sweden's 7-day average is inching upward but still pretty flat compared to Norway and Finland.
I don't know where the fairy tale of skaters being forced to go to Worlds originated, but it is obvious from all the comments skaters are posting that they can't wait to compete in Stockholm. The entry numbers alone speak for themselves. It defies reason that all the people signed up are being forced to do something they have all been waiting a year to do.
Are you just purposely carrying on with supposed hypotheticals? Do you just want to find a way for Worlds not to happen? Which skaters, who made the effort to go compete to get into Worlds in one way or another (virtual review, competitions, Nationals, internationals, whatever) are now being forced after spending all year on the ice?I don't see anyone in this thread saying that all the skaters are being forced to compete. IMO it's reasonable to ask if any of them are uncomfortable with travelling away from home and competing, given that there's a worldwide p*nd*m*c, but are going anyway.
Your source is cumulative since the beginning of this. I'm quite sure you can see that part of the stat.Source? According to this Sweden continues to leave the other nordic countries in the dust in current cases and deaths. Likely why some of the athletes are sharing their concerns knowing as a country its not exactly putting safety first? I say this as someone who is looking forward to Worlds and still hopes it happens but I also appreciate concerns raised by Jackie. This is not like US Nationals that did an excellent job with strict protocols etc this is Sweden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-********-cases-in-the-nordics/
Source? According to this Sweden continues to leave the other nordic countries in the dust in current cases and deaths. Likely why some of the athletes are sharing their concerns knowing as a country its not exactly putting safety first? I say this as someone who is looking forward to Worlds and still hopes it happens but I also appreciate concerns raised by Jackie. This is not like US Nationals that did an excellent job with strict protocols etc this is Sweden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-********-cases-in-the-nordics/
The ISU has already tested out its bubble at a speed skating or short track event (can't recall which right now) that had way more people involved and had zero problems. The U.S. is not the only entity that can host a safe competition. Given that the ISU has not held a figure skating competition in over a year, how could anyone possibly comment on or criticize the ISU for how it will manage Worlds? I believe it will be so tightly controlled that anyone who makes one wrong move will be out in a flash - no matter who they are.I say this as someone who is looking forward to Worlds and still hopes it happens but I also appreciate concerns raised by Jackie. This is not like US Nationals that did an excellent job with strict protocols etc this is Sweden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-********-cases-in-the-nordics/
As far as I can tell, it does look like cases are trending slightly upward in Sweden right now but it's hard to tell because they only report numbers 4 days/week. I think the Swedish authorities have the right of it by trying to warn people right now and taking some activities off the table for the time being, so that it doesn't turn into a true spike. In essence, they MIGHT be on the verge of a third wave. Or not. Only time will tell.As Tony said, those are cumulative cases over the past year. 7 day average shows whether cases are increasing or declining right now.
I swear, most of the complaining comes from this bolded part but just blanketed inside a bunch of other stuff. Russia does not have the same protocols as Australia. Where have they proven that they can't be trusted to do so, and which protocols? Like I said, Tutberidze got on a flight to Miami and I am 100% sure she didn't argue with the people on the plane about which rules she was going to follow. She simply abided by the rules of the situation, and I'm certain that with this being Worlds, and a pre-Olympic one at that, everyone will be on their best behavior. So don't speak as if it's proof of anything. If you're in Florida or soon to be Texas and you're out at a bar or generally disregarding mask rules, guess what? In most situations, you aren't breaking rules.
Second - the. skaters. are. going. to. the. rink. every. day. as. it. is. They aren't up and skating after a year of sitting at home doing nothing. So what exactly is the point you're trying to make about indoor rinks being such a hotbed of risk when the US has run two competitions without one instance and most skaters have been on the ice 5x a week for the last 8 or 9 months?
FWIW, the original concerns about some of the long-term effects for athletes appear to have been overstated.So Sweden's numbers are rising, ice rinks are inherently riskier, the coaching/officials group is generally in the higher-risk groups, getting the 'rona can shorten or end an athletic career...
Australia:
Victoria unsurprisingly has the strictest rules so I will just link to them: https://www.********.vic.gov.au/face-masks-when-wear-face-mask#when-do-i-need-to-wear-a-face-mask
This hearty debate is certainly long overdue,as this particular topic has certainly not been discussed ad nauseum on this forum.
I strongly suggest some members here consider finding a non-pndemic related hobby. I am curious as to what the level of interest is for a symposium on the history of compulsory figures?
-BB
Am guessing the Russian federation could reasonably argue that this season’s Rostelecom wasn’t really an ISU event so they could follow their own protocol.Uh, Rostelecom, much? You know, that event that turned into a superspreader, where they had a banquet despite the ISU saying their sanctioned events were not allowed to, and the ISU did jack squat about it?
Am guessing the Russian federation could reasonably argue that this season’s Rostelecom wasn’t really an ISU event so they could follow their own protocol.
And so could have almost every business. My company is a prime example, we could have done meeting virtual meetings and virtual stuff for years. We chose not to. We have already said we are never going back to the old reality - we now know how much better the new reality works and how much money it saves us. So just because the ISU discovered the same thing we did doesn’t mean that they have nefarious motives. Especially since I don’t think they called you and said we are too scared to have a meeting in person so we’re going to do it on the Internet. It could be that they said our revenue is basically negligible this year and we can’t afford for you people to show up. I’m actually seeing a lot of that.Zoom and other virtual meeting technologies have been around for several years. Conference phone calls have been around for decades. And the ISU AFAIK has never shown any previous inclination to do much of its business virtually, like Council meetings and Congress sessions. It seems to be the opposite, that the members/delegates enjoy the opportunity to go to a meeting and stay in a nice hotel and be fed very well.
I understand that a lot more networking and connections and relationship-building happens at an in-person meeting. But sorry, I'm not completely buying the argument that the ISU having virtual meetings right now has anything to do with their consideration for the safety of athletes at worlds. The ISU could have had online meetings long before the p*nd*m*c.
Source? According to this Sweden continues to leave the other nordic countries in the dust in current cases and deaths. Likely why some of the athletes are sharing their concerns knowing as a country its not exactly putting safety first? I say this as someone who is looking forward to Worlds and still hopes it happens but I also appreciate concerns raised by Jackie. This is not like US Nationals that did an excellent job with strict protocols etc this is Sweden. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102257/cumulative-********-cases-in-the-nordics/
This hearty debate is certainly long overdue,as this particular topic has certainly not been discussed ad nauseum on this forum.
I strongly suggest some members here consider finding a non-pndemic related hobby. I am curious as to what the level of interest is for a symposium on the history of compulsory figures?
-BB
EXACTLY! As I like to say, “Don’t worry - be happy!”From my perspective, something I think people should think about is that these athletes, who have missed out on competition all season long, who have signed up for Worlds in high numbers (this is actually the most pairs teams in recent years isn't it?) deserve the chance to prepare for Worlds with joy and excitement, not the mild nagging worry of having a fan campaign trying to shut Worlds down, however unlikely that may be. They have missed out on so much this year. This Worlds will be unusual, with a bubble and no audience. Don't add stress to the experience. I kept hoping the numbers would go down enough that they could get to have an audience, but that does seem unlikely. So to me, what I want to do as a fan is to contribute in any way I can to skaters feeling like they have as much positivity and enthusiasm about what they will be doing as possible even though there may not be fans physical cheering for them.