CAS rules Valieva can compete - reactions/fallout, plus some details from the hearing

[screech]

When I was in my teens I was nowhere near elite level, but my coach made me switch my painkiller medication from Tylenol to Advil (or the other way around, I can't remember) because one of them occasionally came up on the banned substance list. This was just in the off chance that I ever reached a level where I'd be tested.

When I competed at sectionals (in Canada) in the 90s and qualified for what was then Divisionals, I remember the completely in-depth forms that had to be filled out listing the entire medical history. I remember being 16 and completely overwhelmed having to fill in any medications (and not understanding whether I had to put things like occasionally taking Advil/Tylenol when I had a headache, since I didn't take anything regularly), having to fill in when my last menstruation was (as a 16 year old with spotty, irregular periods, I had no idea how to include 'well, I had it 6 months ago, but before that it was 2 weeks...')... I can only imagine how in depth these things are now, 25 years later. All I can say is at that level, you definitely know what you're getting into.

One worry this ruling brings up in me is that the rules seem to only be applied to athletes aged 16+. Even if everyone where to absolutely follow these anti-doping rules, those who do take things to assist in training or performance will still absolutely do so at the junior level. As much as it is now clear that the age for competing at the senior level should be raised to 16, it doesn't help issues at the lower levels where it's guaranteed those who've been given things will continue to get away with taking the medications.

 

[chantilly]

Well I think this decision does it for me for watching skating at the Olympics.

I’ll still watch all the other skating competitions.

If this isn’t an an argument to raise the age limit I don’t know what is.

I feel so sorry for Valieva. This is not her fault and yet she will likely feel the brunt of this decision. Even if she wins, which is likely, it will always have an asterisk beside it in many minds.

Russia has the IOC and ISU by the balls for whatever reason.

They should be banned for the next four years, but it won’t happen. Maybe not fair to the athletes, especially the non doping ones, but still, the fact that continue to get away with the travesties they do is revolting.

What’s more revolting is the fact that the other athletes who won their medals fair and square are punished.

Why not run the medal ceremony without the athletes or Russian flag or anthems?

 

[Sylvia]

IOC's response: https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-e...lowing-cas-decision-on-the-case-of-roc-skater
...
3. The IOC requests the International Skating Union (ISU), for reasons of fairness, to allow a 25th competitor to participate in the free skating part of the competition on 17 February, in case Ms Valieva is ranked in the first 24 of the short programme on 15 February.

ISU published this about 4 hours ago: https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/1...ioc-executive-board-decision?templateParam=15

Based on the IOC Executive Board Decision, the IOC requests the International Skating Union (ISU) for reasons of fairness to allow a 25th competitor to participate in the Women Single Skating Free Skating of the competition on February 17, in case Ms. Valieva is ranked in the first 24 of the Short Pogram on February 15. Consequently, in line with the 2021 ISU Special Regulations Single & Pair Skating/Ice Dance, Rule 400, paragraph A.1.*, the following will apply for the Women Free Skating, scheduled to be held on February 17, 2022 at 18.00 hours Beijing time.

“Based on the result of the Short Program and subject to Ms. Valieva ranking in the first 24 of the Short Program, the Competitors placed 1-25 (instead of 24) in Women Single Skating shall qualify for the Free Skating. By analogy with Rule 520, paragraph 4, the warm-up groups for the Women Free Skating will be 7 Skaters for the first group and 6 Skaters for groups 2, 3 and 4.”

*Rule 400
Entries to the Olympic Winter Games
A. Entries of Competitors
1. The maximum number of entries for the Olympic Winter Games for
Women and Men, for Pair Skating and for Ice Dance as well as the
respective number of Competitors in the Short Program respectively
the Rhythm Dance to qualify for the final Free Skating respectively the
final Free Dance, shall be in accordance with the IOC Qualification
System for each edition of the OWG. The IOC Qualification System
will be decided by the IOC in consultation with the ISU.

 

[Sylvia]

From this Associated Press article by Dave Skretta and Sally Ho:

With Valieva cleared, Russian 'Quad Squad' out for sweep

BEIJING (AP) — The biggest barrier between Russian figure skating star Kamila Valieva and another Olympic gold medal is no longer a panel of judges holed up in a Beijing hotel room but rather the teammates she practices with every day.

apnews.com

“If that’s their choice, I guess that’s the right one,” 16-year-old Alysa Liu, who will perform just before Valieva on Tuesday night and is the best hope for an American medal in the women’s competition, said upon learning of the CAS decision.
Her father, Arthur Liu, was not as diplomatic.
“She tested positive for a banned drug. What’s not clear about it?” he said to The Associated Press. “She should be out. That is as simple as that. What kind of message are they sending to millions of young boys and girls in sports — particularly figure skaters? That cheaters are allowed to compete in the Olympics, the holiest competition on the planet.
“It totally destroys the Olympic spirit.”

Arthur Liu took particular aim at Tutberidze, who has earned a reputation for pushing skaters to the extreme, then discarding them when they are no longer of use to her. Several of her athletes, including 2014 Olympic gold medalist Yulia Lipnitskaya, have been forced to retire before the age of 20 because of injuries their young, developing bodies incurred in training.
“They are the ones who are most at fault,” Arthur Liu said. “I’m not trying to blame it all on Valieva. Her coaches, doctors, whoever gave her the drugs need to be prosecuted — criminally prosecuted, to be honest. They should be banned forever.”
That may happen down the road. In the meantime, Valieva and the rest of the Quad Squad are set to take center stage.

 

[bardtoob]

Wow. Unless I missed some past statements, it's highly unusual for Yuna to comment publicly about, well, anything. She's very very careful with her statements.

Ashley Wagner: https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/1493167282234798087

Sotnikova cleared of doping claims from Sochi Olympics

The International Skating Union says Olympic figure skating champion Adelina Sotnikova has been cleared of doping charges by the IOC

www.usatoday.com

I'm guessing this soured Yuna.

 

[Deleted member 1204]

Cross posting from other thread -

Just woke up after some sleep, after the ice dance and…

WHOOP DEE DOO!!!!!!!

OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!

KAMILA IS IN!!!!

Wasn’t expecting this (ahum)…

Disgusting.

 

[bladesofgorey]

Do we really think that a team doctor who is in the kiss and cry box with the athletes, who admitted to, and was banned for, organized doping violations of a whole team not that long ago- an anesthesiologist who sought a patent for two banned noble gasses that are used as anesthetics but supposedly have EPO-like effects in athletes- is not administering this banned "treatment" to the athletes he oversees given it's currently completely undetectable in testing?

I mean I guess it's possible (LOL).

 

[bardtoob]

My feeling is that the safest thing for Kamila to do is go out and do her best performance. I don't blame her. This is about surviving at this point.

 

[On My Own]

I am sure the claims were "xenophobic"/"russophobic" as I was informed a bit back on the Unpopular Opinions thread by @hanca and @muffinplus, so I am happy that CAS made this procedural decision, putting an end to such "xenophobia"/"russophobia".

It is unfortunate that Yuna Kim exposed her "russophobia". I am happy that there are Russians on her IG post claiming she was an emotionless, mediocre skater, who's jealous, the first of which is certainly not rooted in any racism coming from European Russians, much like it never was when it was being said during her career. I'm sure @misskarne, protector against all things racist and xenophobic, who one hundred percent hasn't said anything racist about East Asian fans before, would agree with this, much like with the opinions that her first world country's health care system, karne's pride unlike the ones in "uncivilized countries", can't possibly have done anything to help with the mental health issues of Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya.

Such a beautiful day for figure skating. I cannot wait for the ladies SP where all the sore loser women Karen Chen, Yelim Kim, Wakaba Higuchi, Kaori Sakamoto, Young You, so on, should most certainly not be effected mentally by this.

 

[Sylvia]

ROC's official statement (English version):

The ROC Official Statement – Russian Olympic Committee

In accordance with the decision rendered by the Ad Hoc Division, all appeals in this case were dismissed and the decision of the RUSADA Disciplinary Anti-Doping Committee was upheld.

Thus, the Athlete may continue to fully participate in the Olympic Games without restriction.

In the legal reasoning presented before the CAS, the Russian Olympic Committee, which acted as a defendant in the case together with the Athlete and the RUSADA, insisted that, taking into account all the circumstances of the case, the decision to lift the provisional suspension was absolutely justified and fully complied with the general legal fundamental principles of justice, fairness and proportionality.

The ROC’s lawyers, together with the Athlete’s lawyers, proved that the RUSADA Disciplinary Anti-Doping Committee’s decision should be upheld and the Athlete’s legal right to participate in the Olympic Games should be preserved.

The Russian Olympic Committee initially paid special attention to the compliance with the timeframe of the sample analysis at the Stockholm Anti-Doping Laboratory. This fact was also taken into account by the Ad Hoc Division in rendering its decision.

The Russian Olympic Committee continues to consistently defend the rights and interests of Russian athletes. At the same time, we consider it extremely important to conduct a full-scale objective investigation to establish all the circumstances of the Athlete’s positive doping sample.

The ROC is interested in ensuring that the legal process results in an objective, fair decision on this case.

 

[sk9tingfan]

My feeling is that the safest thing for Kamila to do is go out and do her best performance. I don't blame her. This is about surviving at this point.

Listen to Tara and Johnny on this sbject.

Johnny and Tara object to decision to allow Valieva to compete | Winter Olympics 2022 | NBC Sports

NBC Olympics figure skating analysts Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski explain the reasoning behind their disagreement with the decision to allow Kamila Valieva ...

www.youtube.com

 

[bardtoob]

This whole mess absolutely ruined the Olympics.

I bet China wants it money back because this will not win them the prestige they wanted.

 

[karmena]

Sad day for figure skating and the Olympics. I guess when it comes to Russia, the phrase "rules for thee not for me" applies.

It always has been so.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Disgusting.

In this case I have to agree. I mean look at what Jessica had to go through. And the USA isnt under a microscope for cheating to begin with.

One of my friends this morning from the UK said she should withdraw because it’s ruining it for everyone. So now as long as she’s on the podium no one can have their medal podium experience either.

This just makes no sense to me. Here we have a country that hasn’t competed under their country’s name for two Olympic cycles for cheating. And now they have a skater that has it in their system. Supposed to be zero tolerance and it’s like yeah keep the team medal and go ahead and compete today. There’s like a different set of rules for athletes in Russia and then a complete different set of rules for the rest of the world

First time team Japan had ever medaled in the team event and they can’t have their podium experience? Because of a country that’s already known for cheating and still continues to cheat? So wrong

 

[Dave of the North]

This news has made to a duplicate bridge discussion forum (Bridge Winners). CAS is notorious in bridge because they reversed a suspension given to Italian collusive cheaters Fantoni-Nunes. CAS said: "the majority of the Panel concludes that the exchange of information through the Code has not been proven to its comfortable satisfaction and rules that the appeal filed by the Players shall be upheld"

From Wikipedia:
"Boycott of Italy in European Bridge League qualification event
In August 2021 Fantoni was included as a replacement player in the Italy squad for the European Online Bridge Team Championship. Every other competing team refused to play against Italy during the event. "

 

[soogar]

Why not run the medal ceremony without the athletes or Russian flag or anthems?

They are already doing that now because of Russia's prior actions.

In this case, they aren't even going to acknowledge that Russia competed in the ladies event if Valieva finishes on the podium.

Wouldn't it be something if both Japanese ladies and Alysa get on the podium?

 

[Sylvia]

2010 Olympic Champion Evan Lysacek: https://twitter.com/EvanLysacek/status/1493273536965742592

I’m proud to declare that I always competed clean.
I’m trying to put all my energy into supporting @MariahBell96 @Karebearsk8 and #AlysaLiu and all the athletes who will compete clean in Beijing. If you’re an Olympic athlete who is proud to have competed clean, please say it.

 

[MacMadame]

I’m not shocked but am much more angry than I expected to be.

Yes. I could see the writing on the wall so I was kind of surprised how furiously angry I am.

One worry this ruling brings up in me is that the rules seem to only be applied to athletes aged 16+. Even if everyone where to absolutely follow these anti-doping rules, those who do take things to assist in training or performance will still absolutely do so at the junior level. As much as it is now clear that the age for competing at the senior level should be raised to 16, it doesn't help issues at the lower levels where it's guaranteed those who've been given things will continue to get away with taking the medications.

Even if they only dope when under-age, it still gives them advantages that last into adulthood. Having learned a 3X and a couple of quads before 16 with the aid of dope, you aren't going to suddenly lose them when you turn 16.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I agree that raising the age limit isn't the only thing that needs to be done, but it does need to be done. My question is what else do people see as possible here to do that? Aside from WADA also apparently needed to specify that "protected persons" are covered by the portion of the code referring to interim suspensions, even though generally I don't know any lawyers who find that CAS's interpretation of that is legally sound.

I wonder, is Russia still mad that there was an American on the panel and Valieva couldn't POSSIBLY get a fair hearing? Or have they moved past it?

 

[briancoogaert]

I want Kamila to go out on the ice and skate around the rink for two minutes so as to not qualify for the free skate. Then she will show what the adults around her seem to be incapable of - integrity, honesty, and fairness. That, would be her Olympic glory.

With the PCS she gets, she is able to qualifie for the LP !

 

[overedge]

When I competed at sectionals (in Canada) in the 90s and qualified for what was then Divisionals, I remember the completely in-depth forms that had to be filled out listing the entire medical history. I remember being 16 and completely overwhelmed having to fill in any medications (and not understanding whether I had to put things like occasionally taking Advil/Tylenol when I had a headache, since I didn't take anything regularly), having to fill in when my last menstruation was (as a 16 year old with spotty, irregular periods, I had no idea how to include 'well, I had it 6 months ago, but before that it was 2 weeks...')... I can only imagine how in depth these things are now, 25 years later. All I can say is at that level, you definitely know what you're getting into.

Adults competing at Adult Nationals had to fill out those forms too. There was a lot of hilarity about the declaration that you would not consume alcohol during the time the event was being held. But yes, with that level of rigour even at events that weren't leading to the Olympics, no one can claim that they didn't know what was expected re testing and doping.

 

[becca]

Yes. I could see the writing on the wall so I was kind of surprised how furiously angry I am.


Even if they only dope when under-age, it still gives them advantages that last into adulthood. Having learned a 3X and a couple of quads before 16 with the aid of dope, you aren't going to suddenly lose them when you turn 16.

I would imagine if you are looking to compare Till your 25 you may not though want to do all those reps which would make such a medication silly.

 

[Oreo]

One of my friends this morning from the UK said she should withdraw because it’s ruining it for everyone. So now as long as she’s on the podium no one can have their medal podium experience either.

I've been thinking the same thing. She would get respect back from the skating community and fans (non-Russian ones, that is), and she's certainly young enough to get a new coach and compete for years to come. Skate in this Olympics, she'll have the asterisk next to her name forever.

 

[Karen-W]

I've been thinking the same thing. She would get respect back from the skating community and fans (non-Russian ones, that is), and she's certainly young enough to get a new coach and compete for years to come. Skate in this Olympics, she'll have the asterisk next to her name forever.

I doubt she will care in the long run. She will go home and be hailed as a hero, they'll stop doping her and she'll continue to grow and lose her jumps, and she'll be off skating in shows in Russia well before Milano-Cortina rolls around.

 

[Oreo]

I doubt she will care in the long run. She will go home and be hacked a hero, they'll stop doping her and she'll continue to grow and lose her jumps, and she'll be off skating in shows in Russia well before Milano-Cortina rolls around.

Sadly, I'm afraid you're right!

 

[allezfred]

In light of how Valieva has been let off, no wonder other athletes like Sha’carri Richardson are aggrieved:

https://twitter.com/itskerrii/status/1493209274457153536?s=21

 

[MsZem]

In light of how Valieva has been let off, no wonder other athletes like Sha’carri Richardson are aggrieved:

https://twitter.com/itskerrii/status/1493209274457153536?s=21

I understand why Richardson is aggrieved, but she's an adult and Valieva isn't.

Has there been an equivalent case with an athlete who is a protected person at this level of competition?

 

[Karen-W]

Chelsea Liu has also posted on her IG - https://instagram.com/stories/chels...ce=ig_story_item_share&utm_medium=share_sheet

And the Russia-bots are already on the attack against Meagan Duhamel - https://instagram.com/stories/meaga...ce=ig_story_item_share&utm_medium=share_sheet

Filip Taschler & Lana Petranovic also shared Yuna Kim's IG post.

 

[Vagabond]

I hate it when people cause trouble here.

 

[trouble77]

Yes, because of people spouting prejudice just like this.

I'm not spouting. That`s my personal experience.