2020-21 Canadian Women News & Updates

pat c

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,056
I'm guessing it's the same in most (all?) provinces. And are they actually "pushed" or is hockey just a better attraction?

Hockey is a team sport where you can have fun playing it as a kid at multiple levels. Competitive figure skating is less friendly, perhaps.
There are so many sports right now scrambling for players. Hockey definitely, ringette, figure skating, indoor soccer..........

Distance and cost are the biggest barrier for competitive skating at the lower levels. Skating fees, club membership, and rink fees aren't cheap. So parents are looking for the biggest bang for their buck, and a lot of it has to do with the parents. Hockey culture provides camaraderie not just for kids but for parents. There are so many factors that impact the number of kids going into fs. And each region in Canada has it's own difficulties. Prairies - distance, maritimes coaching? lack of rinks?

There isn't a magic solution and I'm not even taking into consideration direction from Skate Canada, national, provincial or local levels.
 

Dr.TylerPhD

Member
Messages
10
I truly believe, whether people want to say it out loud or not, we're staring down the barrel of a reality that Canada will not be competitive at the most elite level in the ladies event going forward - and maybe that's actually okay.

In any event...sorry for being Debbie Downer. I'm actually quite optimistic about many aspects of Canadian figure skating..albeit not this particular event. But it is what it is.
They said the same thing after Liz Manley left, then after Josee left, then while Joannie and Cynthia were having trouble, then after Joannie left, and during all this time, imagine telling them a world champion was going to emerge from Canada in 2018....three years ago. Daleman may even rebound, and Madeline was already in the top ten after the short.

Long Story short, this is a broken record that happens whenever there is a lull in ladies skating in Canada.

For whatever reason, we don't hear the same sentiment for mens, pairs, or dance, yet the ladies get nothing but doom and gloom.

If Madeline had done a cleaner long at worlds, would we still be screaming all doom and gloom?

Also the Russian system isn't actually all that different from how is has been for the past 10-20 years, right now to many of the same coaches being in place, yet the world does find a way to compete. They even said the same thing about Russia at one point while they were having a low point and Moskvina just replied in an interview: "New people will emerge", and she was right.

Do you also realize that at one time Women's Skating in Russia was seen as a strange puzzle, where they could produce world and olympic champions, but never in women's skating? Yet now here we are talking about their amazing system rather than treating it as a modern phenomenon largely related to one single coach (i.e., Eteri).
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
71,040
This article is linked from the PRESSION (Pressure) documentary thread (last link in post #4) and is provocatively titled "We won't beat the Russians in singles figure skating for 12 years":

Google translated excerpts:
According to mental preparation consultant and former figure skater Véronique Richard, to get there, “the Canadian system has to change”.
According to her, you need to have a long-term vision focused on science and the well-being of skaters, unlike the Russians, who advocate repetition in training and the imposition of rigid structures.
“It's clear that there will be no Canadians, in singles, on the podium at the next Olympic Games or the ones after, because the Russians took the short cut. On the other hand, if we take a 12-year perspective and want to build such an efficient system, which will be done in a healthy environment, it is possible.”
"In Canada, we have not yet brought enough scientific intelligence," she continues. Figure skating should be equipped with biomechanics [specialists in the movement of the human body and its interaction with the environment in which it evolves]. I don't think the Russians are going to take that approach, not in the short term.”
Joëlle Carpentier, consultant in sports psychology:
“We now know better what helps an athlete to perform, but we have to take a break and extend the period we give to develop,” she adds. The ultimate performance will come when human beings are well. Organizations must be reassured. Take care of the human being and the medals will arrive in the long term and with consistency.”
Véronique Richard ... warns that will also stop funding only sports that earn medals, and instead fund sports depending on the quality of service offered to the athlete.
“When [the coaches] are told that their sport might go off the map if they don't make it to the Olympics, don't be surprised if some of them go crazy or say things to people. athletes, which are totally unacceptable,” she argues.
“The Russians win like that and make no secret of it. We use funding systems that are somewhat similar, based on results only. That has to change.”
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
Messages
13,439
Ice time is hard to get, so it doesn't surprise me that hockey and ringette are more popular than figure skating. A lot of parents start their kids in CanSkate (like a learning how to skate program) and there's also speed skating too. Figure skating is possibly the most expensive of all these sports when you think about ice time, coaching, costumes, skates & boots, and traveling to competitions. I would like to see more competitions being held at lower levels, encouraging the early skaters to shoot for something. It feels like Skate Canada isn't doing enough and they're hyper focused on a select few.
Its the cost as well, my daughter was a competitive figure skater and it was so expensive, plus the better you are the more it costs. When she switched to short track speed skating we saved a fortune and her funding paid for travel and school which was even cheaper in Quebec. She also enjoyed it far more, although she still loves watching figure skating. Part of the issue I agree is a lack of competitions when the skaters are developing, but the long term athlete development model discourages it. So then we need to provide more opportunities for the older developing athletes and go the route of Osmond.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,143
The technical standard of elite ladies' skating has skyrocketed since the last Olympic Games.

It isn't enough to have seven triple jumps (with two triple-triple combinations or sequences). To make the podium, now ladies need triple axels and quadruple jumps just to be considered.

Seeing that, I wonder if a lot of skaters are put off by the extreme demands and expectations, and as others have written, go into winter sports where you're racing against a clock instead.
 

Lemonade20

If I agreed with you, we’d both be wrong.
Messages
2,351
The technical standard of elite ladies' skating has skyrocketed since the last Olympic Games.

It isn't enough to have seven triple jumps (with two triple-triple combinations or sequences). To make the podium, now ladies need triple axels and quadruple jumps just to be considered.

Seeing that, I wonder if a lot of skaters are put off by the extreme demands and expectations, and as others have written, go into winter sports where you're racing against a clock instead.
When you compare figure skating to other winter sports, it is insane how difficult it is to reach the top. It's impossible to be the complete package. Jason Brown is the most musically inclined skater, the Russians are jumping beans, and Yuzu comes close to having it all together.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,714
In Canada, across disciplines, you either have to have super elite talent coming in or be exceptionally driven. Because the system here only does a certain amount for you. In Russia and China, comparatively, the federations set goals to win gold medals and - for better or worse - run the show, fund everything and charge the students to do whatever is necessary to WIN....or you are tossed aside without much ceremony.

Here in the west, results largely depend on the individual skater(s) themselves. You could almost taste the talent in athletes like Osmond, Browning and Chan. And then you had the skaters with less obvious talent but an off-the-charts drive and work ethic like Stojko and Duhamel. For me personally, something really needs to catch my eye in those areas to dare to dream of a golden future.

Effort is a tricky thing. Every parent claims their little Amber "tries really hard" but there's a totally different intensity that needs to be in play to meet the elite work ethic threshold. The bar is sensationally high.

I haven't seen 100% of the novices and juniors in Canada but among our better juniors and all seniors, the only one that meets any of my criteria is Schizas. The girl wants it. And she's going to go get it. Some of what she brings to the table you just can't coach.

The only other one I'm watching is Ruiter. Not yet convinced. But, there is a certain magic about her that international judges will really take to, if she can overcome her technical limitations. You can teach tech, but they haven't yet invented pixie dust to sprinkle onto a skater that makes you just want to watch them.

A distant third is Cotop. Haven't been active on the boards enough to know of any updates on her. Last I heard she planned to remain in the picture. But that was a year ago. Haven't completely closed my files on her yet unless y'all know something I don't.
 

Habs

A bitch from Canada
Messages
5,801
A distant third is Cotop. Haven't been active on the boards enough to know of any updates on her. Last I heard she planned to remain in the picture. But that was a year ago. Haven't completely closed my files on her yet unless y'all know something I don't.
I'd like to remain optimistic about Cotop. She has unreal natural talent, and we all saw the vast improvements she made to her basic skating after a short time with Ravi Walia. She's just such an unknown because she's so dogged by injuries.
 

WanderlustTO

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,079
They said the same thing after Liz Manley left, then after Josee left, then while Joannie and Cynthia were having trouble, then after Joannie left, and during all this time, imagine telling them a world champion was going to emerge from Canada in 2018....three years ago. Daleman may even rebound, and Madeline was already in the top ten after the short.

Long Story short, this is a broken record that happens whenever there is a lull in ladies skating in Canada.

For whatever reason, we don't hear the same sentiment for mens, pairs, or dance, yet the ladies get nothing but doom and gloom.

If Madeline had done a cleaner long at worlds, would we still be screaming all doom and gloom?

Also the Russian system isn't actually all that different from how is has been for the past 10-20 years, right now to many of the same coaches being in place, yet the world does find a way to compete. They even said the same thing about Russia at one point while they were having a low point and Moskvina just replied in an interview: "New people will emerge", and she was right.

Do you also realize that at one time Women's Skating in Russia was seen as a strange puzzle, where they could produce world and olympic champions, but never in women's skating? Yet now here we are talking about their amazing system rather than treating it as a modern phenomenon largely related to one single coach (i.e., Eteri).
The reason it's not the same discussion is because in previous generations the technical differential b/w what top Canadians vs the world (when combined with Canadian skaters who weren't at the very top) wasn't so glaring as it currently is.

If you want to understand conceptually what i'm getting at - compare the technical difference b/w Canadian ladies at the world level, verses the skaters at the top from other countries. Then dig a bit and look at the technical sheets from skaters in the various countries at the national events.
 

dramagrrl

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,058
The reason it's not the same discussion is because in previous generations the technical differential b/w what top Canadians vs the world (when combined with Canadian skaters who weren't at the very top) wasn't so glaring as it currently is.
At one point in the mid-to-late 90s, it definitely was. Skaters like Angela Derochie and Keyla Ohs were placing first and second at Canadians with little more than a double axel or two and two or three badly-done triples of the easier variety at best. I love Jennifer Robinson, don't get me wrong, but the fact that she had a five-year winning streak at Canadians and didn't manage to even crack the top 10 at Worlds until 2002 was emblematic of our ladies program at the time. We didn't even manage to qualify one entry to the 1998 Olympics.
 

Former Lurve Goddess

Well-Known Member
Messages
539
At one point in the mid-to-late 90s, it definitely was. Skaters like Angela Derochie and Keyla Ohs were placing first and second at Canadians with little more than a double axel or two and two or three badly-done triples of the easier variety at best. I love Jennifer Robinson, don't get me wrong, but the fact that she had a five-year winning streak at Canadians and didn't manage to even crack the top 10 at Worlds until 2002 was emblematic of our ladies program at the time. We didn't even manage to qualify one entry to the 1998 Olympics.
While I agree with everything else, "Top Ten" Jen first cracked the top 10 in 2000 (not 2002) when she place 8th (6th in the long program). Also, I think some of our current women are actually reasonably close to international tech standards, if we take the Russia out of the equation. And I bet that if Daleman and Cotop hadn't struggled with injuries/illness/other issues for the last couple of years, we'd likely be much more hopeful about the state of the Canadian ladies.
 
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Habs

A bitch from Canada
Messages
5,801
And I bet that if Daleman and Cotop hadn't struggled with injuries/illness/other issues for the last couple of years, we'd likely be much more hopeful about the state of the Canadian ladies.
Especially Daleman. World bronze, plus an amazing performance in the Olympic team competition. I'm not optimistic that she'll return to form but I certainly hope she gets closer.
 

karmena

Well-Known Member
Messages
222
Somehow I am left in the impression that Daleman never recovered from her Olympic skate ( individual); so deeply inside she simply couldn't not accept how she skated at Olympics, and what happened after was only a consequence. While for Kaetlyn medal never was a reason or goal why she is skating, for Gabby a medal was everything, an ultimate goal. I might be mistaken of course. I am not Canadian so my opinion is based only on what I have read in interviews and by watching their powerful skating.
Canadian skating in general has something very special, something very Canadian which stands out; it has its own taste and flavor. Canadian figure skating is a nice and beautiful flower in the garden of the world's figure skating. It is my favorite flower.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,179
Somehow I am left in the impression that Daleman never recovered from her Olympic skate ( individual); so deeply inside she simply couldn't not accept how she skated at Olympics, and what happened after was only a consequence. While for Kaetlyn medal never was a reason or goal why she is skating, for Gabby a medal was everything, an ultimate goal. I might be mistaken of course. I am not Canadian so my opinion is based only on what I have read in interviews and by watching their powerful skating.

I'm really not sure about that - have never had that impression.

Remember, Gabby suffered from depression and an eating disorder.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
Messages
13,439
Daleman's concussions are likely a compounding factor. Speaking as someone who has had one—concussions themselves can cause mental health symptoms and/or amplify existing ones.
I know several former elite level retired athletes with anxiety issues which manifested post concussion, I wish there was more research.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
71,040
I didn't see this posted... Gabrielle Daleman was featured in the ISU podcast episode titled "Comeback Queens..." (she speaks from 19:00-27:30): https://www.isu.org/media-centre/libraries/podcast

She discusses her mental health, body image struggles, concussion and other injuries from the 2019 WTT collision, how she landed a 4T "wrong and tore ligaments in my ankle" leading up to 2020 Nationals, and entered the pageant world to gain self-confidence.

ETA that Daleman hasn't revealed her SP music yet (choreo. by Jeff Buttle) but has shared some practice clips:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPT1yGlHToK/
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CP1havhHdqP/
 
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haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
8,629
2021 Summer CAN SR LADIES FS/TOTAL

Gabrielle Daleman 122/178
Madeline Schizas 113/173
Emily Bausback 109/172
Camille Perreault 97/146
Veronik Mallet 94/146
Alison Schumacher 89/142
Beatrice Lavoie-Leonard 90/140
Kim Deguise-Leveillee 91/136
Leah Lee 92/136
Maelle Denke 92/133
Michelle Long 83/131
Laurence Berube 79/131
 

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