UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[dinakt]

This seems like a program Patrick Chan could have done really well with whereas it's not as natural for Jason's performing style. He can do beautiful, introspective, musical work as evidenced by his "Piano" LP and that one also took awhile for him as well.

As I was watching it, I thought- who am I imagining doing it? Patrick... I didn't write it, but I thought it- so clearly that comparison is in the air- maybe for David W., as well.
For costume- lol- my brain envisions some tribute to skating costumes/or general fashion of the early 70ies. So that not Jason is dressed like an old man (which he seems now), but there's a sense of nostalgia.

 

[soogar]

I might be the only person who doesn't hate the costume. I like the shirt and it doesn't look bulkier or weirder than other costumes out there. In fact, it reminds me of the costumes American male skaters wore in the early 90s; shirts tucked into pants. I like the blue colors as well.

This program looks similar to the program Dave Wilson choreographed for Patrick Chan - Dust in the Wind. I didn't like that program and I don't like this program either. This music is really very AM radio and outdated. It just doesn't look or sound very contemporary. I also think that if a skater is having a bad day, like Patrick had at the Olympics, the music sees to accentuate the sorrow and difficulties of the skate. I think it would be really hard to pick yourself up after an error with that mellow music. JMO

 

[MacMadame]

P.S. In MHO, Bookends is one of the most beautiful, emotional, heartfelt songs ever written, and a WONDERFUL choice for an artist of Jason's caliber.

I agree. I just think it goes on too long. There's a part where it goes instrumental and I expect Hazy Shades of Winter to start up and then there are lyrics again. I think it should fade into Hazy Shades before that.

And I admit I didn't really notice the costume one way or another.

 

[RoseRed]

I really didn't mind the shirt either when I saw it in person.

 

[misskarne]

I thought you would be salty, considering Jason’s quadless program scored higher than anything Max Aaron ever did...

Jason's ISU PB was higher than Max's before the change in the scoring system. In fact Jason's ISU PB was higher than Max's Nationals PB and Max had to drag the Nationals judges kicking and screaming over 90 with the best SP of his career. So, nice try.

 

[ilovepaydays]

I think the general point that some are trying to make is that other than Jason Brown, pretty much no one else has scored above 90 with a quadless short program. And it’s really, really hard to win a world/Olympic medal if you can’t consistently score at least 90-95 in the short program.

 

[misskarne]

I think the general point that some are trying to make is that other than Jason Brown, pretty much no one else has scored above 90 with a quadless short program. And it’s really, really hard to win a world/Olympic medal if you can’t consistently score at least 90-95 in the short program.

Yes, but the point we're trying to make in return is that there's absolutely no rush for Jason getting the quad, at least in terms of SP scores, because he can score over 90 without one. 96, to be precise, in front of international judges, purely on the quality of his skating.

I want Jason to get at least one quad down because we know it's bothering him that he hasn't, yet (not officially anyway the one at 2016 Skate America was clean and you can't change my mind). And I have every confidence that he will. He works hard, he has nice clean air position and gets decent height. I'm sure that he will.

And then he can go over 100 with one quad and pricks like MaxSwagg and caseyedwards will bitch about that, too.

 

[Meoima]

I have one question, at what age Patrick landed a clean 4T at international competitions? I remember it was when he was 19-20? But he was training it since he was 17. I wonder how much is that compared to Jason?

 

[Colonel Green]

I have one question, at what age Patrick landed a clean 4T at international competitions? I remember it was when he was 19-20? But he was training it since he was 17. I wonder how much is that compared to Jason?

2010 Skate Canada International, when he was 19 going on 20.

 

[Carolla5501]

So, clearly I already had all the a$$holes on ignore since I see none of them, only the responses. However, I disagree heartily with this assessment. I find that with a$$holes, there is no rational discussion to be had, therefore, the only rational response is to tell them they are a$$holes that need to fcku off! LOL!

P.S. In MHO, Bookends is one of the most beautiful, emotional, heartfelt songs ever written, and a WONDERFUL choice for an artist of Jason's caliber.

Thanks for the warning I just added you to the ignore list I really don’t need to interact with 12-year-olds

 

[Meoima]

2010 Skate Canada International, when he was 19 going on 20.

do we have other men landing quads the first time later than Patrick?

 

[leigh466]

Thanks for the warning I just added you to the ignore list I really don’t need to interact with 12-year-olds

And I, in turn, will be most happy to return the favor. I certainly do not want to interact with someone who gets this bent out of shape over a discussion of the correct way to treat a$$holes.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I might be the only person who doesn't hate the costume.

LOL I havent been in this thread in some time....

One thing I always know about Jason.. amazing programs, "not my cup of tea" costumes. Bleh...every last one of them.

I hope he makes the World team... ANL is tired.. is US sending 3 men to Worlds?

 

[Colonel Green]

do we have other men landing quads the first time later than Patrick?

Kurt Browning was 21, going way back to the first person to do it. I'm sure others have picked them up later than that.

 

[Mrs. P]

Kurt Browning was 21, going way back to the first person to do it. I'm sure others have picked them up later than that.

Tatsuki Machida came to mind for me.

He was attempting 4T for a few seasons but became consistent in 2013-2014 when he won both his GPs and won silver at Worlds. He was 23 at the start of the season and turned 24 just a few weeks before Worlds.

But of course, he decided to retire at the end of the 2014-2015 season, to focus on school. He had won Skate America,, placed 2nd at TEB (when it was just the SP due to the terror attacks) but struggled in the GPF and placed 6th. So I guess you can argue it wasn't consistent for long, but he did have a good hold on the jump long enough to win a world medal.

And Tatsuki didn't have to contend with a ton of guys doing 4Los, 4Fs and 4Zs either or more than one quad. So getting just a 4T consistent was enough back then.

 

[DreamSkates]

Isn’t orser supposed to be like good for jumps?!? Brown has no jumps. He’s behind where orser was in 1984

If he "has no jumps" how did he earn 96 points in his short program in France? The jumps he executed were stellar, compared to the falling and stumbling out of quads of several skaters over the Grand Prix season.

 

[DreamSkates]

Jason seems to be doing OK, he won a medal in Russia.

While it was not my favorite long program for Jason, I have to say I love his short. If he skates both of them clean, he will score very well and win some more medals. I hope he gets two programs that suit him next year.

People complain if a skater or team keeps the same style of program every year and then complain if they branch out. Make up your mind people!

Personally, if someone skates a perfect program - and does all their jumps and gets positive GOE and shows good skating skills - what's not to love??? Even if the program or music is not my favorite.

I bet Jason is really encouraged about this result and will go home and work harder than ever.

And a silver medal in France.

 

[Firedancer]

I hope he makes the World team... ANL is tired.. is US sending 3 men to Worlds?

Yes - thanks to Nathan finishing 1st and Max finishing 11th at last year’s worlds.

 

[DreamSkates]

And I, in turn, will be most happy to return the favor. I certainly do not want to interact with someone who gets this bent out of shape over a discussion of the correct way to treat a$$holes.

I also, like the "ignore" feature for people who don't know how to rationally interact with others who disagree with their assessments. No need for name calling or telling someone you don't know personally, how to treat others.

 

[caseyedwards]

Jason is not getting a consistent quad. Ever.

If he "has no jumps" how did he earn 96 points in his short program in France? The jumps he executed were stellar, compared to the falling and stumbling out of quads of several skaters over the Grand Prix season.

The extremely broken scoring system! The extreme punishment of doing quads hasn’t eliminated them yet like it did from 2008 to 2010 but don’t doubt people are watching browns scores and will eliminate quads from their programs and training to keep up with brown and where judges are going like what happened in 2009 and 2010

 

[Colonel Green]

The extremely broken scoring system! The extreme punishment of doing quads hasn’t eliminated them yet like it did from 2008 to 2010 but don’t doubt people are watching browns scores and will eliminate quads from their programs and training to keep up with brown and where judges are going like what happened in 2009 and 2010

LOL at “keeping up with Brown”.

Jason’s score was only possible because he has some of the highest PCS marks around. It’s not something any skater can achieve merely by doing nothing triples.

So no, you won’t see quads vanishing because of Jason. You are already seeing fewer quads, especially in the short program (more people just doing one).

However, note also that Jason did not come close to winning overall because of Nathan’s free program quad jumps. So the idea that the scoring system is going to eliminate quads is nonsense. Jason is the only men’s GP medalist this season to not attempt a quad (though arguably Matteo Rizzo would have been in a stronger position had he followed the same strategy).

 

[Tavi]

LOL at “keeping up with Brown”.

Jason’s score was only possible because he has some of the highest PCS marks around. It’s not something any skater can achieve merely by doing nothing triples.

So no, you won’t see quads vanishing because of Jason. You are already seeing fewer quads, especially in the short program (more people just doing one).

However, note also that Jason did not come close to winning overall because of Nathan’s free program quad jumps. So the idea that the scoring system is going to eliminate quads is nonsense. Jason is the only men’s GP medalist this season to not attempt a quad (though arguably Matteo Rizzo would have been in a stronger position had he followed the same strategy).

Tut tut Colonel Green - if Jason had skated his FS program squeaky clean, even with the 2A, he would nearly have tied Nathan and possibly squeaked past him to win depending on GOE. Between the pops, < and a lost spin level, he lost more than 14 points, and he also lost more than a point in -GOE.

To win he would have had to be close to as perfect as he was in the SP, so perhaps not super realistic. And if Nathan hadn’t fallen in the SP, there is likely no way Jason could have won even if he were perfect.

 

[antmanb]

I have one question, at what age Patrick landed a clean 4T at international competitions? I remember it was when he was 19-20? But he was training it since he was 17. I wonder how much is that compared to Jason?

do we have other men landing quads the first time later than Patrick?

I think a better question might be when did Patrick first land the 4S in competition. Did he not start to train to that for the 2018 Olympics and add it in at the beginning of the season?

I don't recall him trying it or landing it before.

 

[misskarne]

I hope he makes the World team... ANL is tired.. is US sending 3 men to Worlds?

Yes. Thanks to Nathan and to Max.

Jason will be fine for the World team. I mean, who else are they gonna send in his place?

 

[antmanb]

Yes. Thanks to Nathan and to Max.

Jason will be fine for the World team. I mean, who else are they gonna send in his place?

I would have said that about the Olympics last year and yet it didn't turn out that way.

 

[briancoogaert]

The extremely broken scoring system! The extreme punishment of doing quads hasn’t eliminated them yet like it did from 2008 to 2010 but don’t doubt people are watching browns scores and will eliminate quads from their programs and training to keep up with brown and where judges are going like what happened in 2009 and 2010

As long as their Skating Skills and overall qualities are like Jason Brown's, they can try programs without quads !
But, I don't think a skater with not so spectacular SS can do a program without any quad and hoping to score that high. So, I'm not sure it's that bad for Quads.

 

[VGThuy]

I think some people are really afraid of 2008-2010 happening again, but I don't see it happening. The men who are doing quads will continue to do quads, and it's not just one but multiple. Despite the expanded GOE range, there is something about building up base values. So long as the men are able to do completed, rotated quads then they'll have more of a chance of medaling than they would without one. Some skaters who focus on other skills can now be better rewarded for their strengths, but it still puts them at a BV disadvantage and they have to rely on more subjective areas of judging to get scores to be competitive. If you skate like Jason Brown, then you can get it, but like quads, that takes years of development and work and focus on those areas.

 

[Meoima]

Even uncles like Voronov and Brezina are doing quads so I think the men will keep doing quads. It’s fine.

 

[DreamSkates]

The extremely broken scoring system! The extreme punishment of doing quads hasn’t eliminated them yet like it did from 2008 to 2010 but don’t doubt people are watching browns scores and will eliminate quads from their programs and training to keep up with brown and where judges are going like what happened in 2009 and 2010

The extreme punishment applies equally to all jumps. One of the ladies in France, popped a jump so had a base value of 0 with a negative GOE. Can't remember who it was. Or maybe base value was @ 1.0 with - GOE of .40. If she had had a bad fall what could they have deducted? Up to -5? So that would be 1.0 - 5.0.(hopefully not!)

 

[Skittl1321]

I think it is impressive Jason has had the success he has had without quads. It is a rare skater who can skate the way he can.

Yeah, it would be amazing if he had quads; but it's not like he's a complete failure. He's still adding to the collection of hardware.