Champs Camp 2017 (Aug 19-23)

[Karpenko]

Bradie Tennell is on the upper left in the black beret (behind Haven Denney and Mirai Nagasu) and Ross Miner is behind Maia Shibutani -- I assume they both have been assigned to Skate America.

Like a dagger in the heart. Caroline will have to force USFSA to notice her, once again. (and she will)

she really should be there (at least) IMO, she's currently top 5 in the US.. #norespect #teamzhang

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Right, the system provides precious little opportunities for talented skaters. And despite all the heavy focus on #DestinationPyeongchang, only a small handful will arrive at that hotly contested destination.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_vZbsF5tk/?taken-by=icenetwork

@ Chris Knierim's response when the photographer said, "Now everyone pretend you're excited."

Mervin is always pulling wacky faces in photographs. Reminds me of my brother when he was little. Always a funny face in photos.

Hmmm, I'm used to Eliana Pogrebinsky being a brunette, but I guess a lady has to experiment every now and then with different looks/ hair color.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_nkUzlxOw/?hl=en&taken-by=icenetwork

Ash W has lightened her locks again (looks better than the Goth of last season).

I love this Madi/Zach samba shot!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BX-vwnlFuzo/?hl=en&taken-by=icenetwork
And this clip!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BX-xG2UFTrB/?hl=en&taken-by=icenetwork

Ashley C in a red gown with Timothy L mugging in the background:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_MG_hF_Lr/?hl=en&taken-by=icenetwork

I suppose there are photos/clips of other skaters that aren't posted.

 

[Jeschke]

Why is Zhang missing?

 

[olympic]

Why is Zhang missing?

Due to no GP assignments

 

[Jeschke]

Due to no GP assignments

Tennell has none either and is there!
Zhang is the current 5th place nationals finisher!!!

 

[clairecloutier]

NM

 

[Jeschke]

It's believed that Tennell may have been given the Skate America host spot. Her early-season scores are higher than Zhang's.

Zhang skated with a broken blade

Either way; US Fed better sends her to Nebelhorn!

 

[chapis]

Group photo.
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/899061934724493312

May the USFS invite to Grant and the girl next to him more often, please , they seem the only ones excited to be there.

 

[Sylvia]

May the USFS invite to Grant and the girl next to him

She's Tarah Kayne. I posted this video clip yesterday: Jason is ALWAYS excited to be there : https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/899041234680913920

I guess we have to get with the times and watch disappearing instagram stories that can't be linked or posted from.

Shhhh... (for @mollymgr, @Debbie S & others interested to watch but can't... )

Chock/Bates' Instagram story (with several skater cameos): https://vimeo.com/230314514
Shibutanis' Instagram story: https://vimeo.com/230314356 (thanks to @chapis for finding/posting the link)

 

[jiejie]

Sorry, but I don't get the Caroline Zhang love. It's with good reason she's not here. Her record at past GP's since 2009 is very poor. IIRC, she was given at least one Skate America TBA spot and pretty much embarrassed herself and the USFSA. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ..... The USFSA likely has a collective long memory on this.

Her 5th place at Nationals last year was as much surviving a war of attrition (when better skaters faltered) as it was any inherent skating brilliance. When I watch her skate now, I still see the same lack of speed and poor jump technique that has dogged her forever. The positive difference now is that she seems to skate with more heart than in past years...but while I'm glad that she's found a sense of renewal, that's not enough to give her the benefit of a doubt over up-and-comers like Bradie Tennell. I would take a chance on Courtney Hicks or even Amber Glenn on the GP before I would Caroline. I don't see a place for sentimentality in the decision on who gets the TBA.

Caroline should get some Senior B's, where she has done well at in the past, and try to boost her World standings points. She needs to EARN her way back to top international competition assignments. I suspect she is very aware of this.

 

[Karpenko]

It's not really sentimentality, she was 5th at Nationals over Gracie Gold (bless her), who was last seen doing double toes at SOI. She scored over 68 in the SP at Glacier Falls and 115 with a busted skate (which happened after her first jump in the LP). She was only 6 points behind a clean Karen SP.

She's not skating the way she was in her last GP appearance, she's been improving since her comeback and you can make a logical argument for her to at least be at champs camp IMO. Either way I don't expect it to phase her, she'll probably keep improving and get a shot next season.

 

[Jeschke]

Either way I don't expect it to phase her, she'll probably keep improving and get a shot next season.

I think we hit the final round, don't we?

 

[Karpenko]

Olympics are in Beijing next time and she's the energizer bunny, I think she's going to continue. Why not? She only keeps getting better and she's finally healthy. If she keeps improving there's no reason why next seasons GP can't happen. because whoopie, post Olympic GP is so much better

 

[Sylvia]

There are 8 "rookies" at Champs Camp this year:

Rachel & Michael Parsons: https://www.instagram.com/p/BYBW2vvFk-_/?taken-by=icenetwork

Lorraine McNamara & Quinn Carpenter with coach Alexei Kiliakov: https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_w4oTlLU9/?taken-by=icenetwork

Deanna Stellato: https://www.instagram.com/p/BYBUPKujs58/?taken-by=deannamsd622
"Baby's first Champs Camp... even though I'm the oldest one here ! I am so honored and thankful to be here!!!"
ETA: She turned 34 in June.

Bradie Tennell (also shared the group photo on her Instagram): "So excited to be a part of #champscamp17!!!"

Vincent Zhou (also shared the group photo on his Instagram):
"What an honor to be at Champs Camp for the first time, and at such a special one--the Olympic year Champs Camp! I'm looking forward to this week of learning, growing, reaching out, performing, and having fun."
ETA: He's the youngest one here - will turn 17 in October.

Timothy LeDuc (with Ashley Cain) received their PSA Best Pair Performance (2017 Nationals SP) award at Champs Camp: https://www.instagram.com/p/BX_5IR6B2sA/?taken-by=the.cains

 

[Jun Y]

Bradie Tennell skated very well at Philadelphia Summer Competition, landing the triple Lutz triple toe combination in both the short program and the free program and won senior ladies convincingly in front of an international judging panel. She also skated consistently well at other earlier competitions that I did not attend in person and now cannot remember. I don't know whether she will get the SA host pick or not, but if she does, I would say she has certainly earned it.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Group photo.
https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/899061934724493312

This is my favorite Champs Camp group photo ever.

I used to have difficulty identifying a lot of people. This year I can identify them all even if their eyes are closed!

Added later: I can't find Amber Glenn. Shes the one Im most excited for. I know she hasn't a GP assignment, but she's already been assigned a B. Caroline hasn't been assigned anything yet so I understand her absence.

I don't believe a GP assignment is a requirement as both C&L and S&B are at this.

 

[jiejie]

Either way I don't expect it to phase her, she'll probably keep improving and get a shot next season.

I haven't seen much meaningful improvement on the technical side. She does seem to smile/emote more than she did in past years, but that doesn't get you too far these days. She's not in challenger mode, she's in redemption mode and carries a lot of baggage that the newer senior skaters don't. We'll see. Some medals on the Senior B circuit and getting scores consistently up in the 170's would be a start at getting that shot. I don't see her as a possibility for the US Olympic Team, but 4CC is not out of the question and she has a strong track record at that competition.

 

[Lutzlvr]

Can't find Josh in any of the pictures. Beginning to worry and hope he is ok Been really looking forward to seeing him competing again!!!!

 

[Debbie S]

Most of the USA ladies competing on the GP this year are nearing the end of their careers. From a developmental perspective, it makes much more sense to send Tennell over Zhang (and I like Caroline!). USFS needs to develop the 'next generation' and set up its up and coming talent for the next quad. Tennell may not end up being the 'next great U.S. lady' but it makes sense to give her a chance now to get experience and start building her resume. And given her performances this summer, she deserves it.

 

[Dobre]

Most of the USA ladies competing on the GP this year are nearing the end of their careers. From a developmental perspective, it makes much more sense to send Tennell over Zhang (and I like Caroline!). USFS needs to develop the 'next generation' and set up its up and coming talent for the next quad. Tennell may not end up being the 'next great U.S. lady' but it makes sense to give her a chance now to get experience and start building her resume. And given her performances this summer, she deserves it.

This is all true, but I honestly think USFS may just have done a direct comparison of the summer scores & results. Ross wasn't invited in order to develop the next generation. He was pretty clearly selected for consideration based on his summer results, and Bradie had the results to be selected for the same reason. If Caroline had the higher score or had gone head-to-head with Bradie and/or done a second competition with a higher score, the decision might very well have been different.

 

[Willin]

I posted this video clip yesterday: Jason is ALWAYS excited to be there : https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/899041234680913920

Is Jason ever not excited for something? I admire his unwavering positive attitude - it's truly amazing. You'd think there'd be something that would make him unhappy, right? (Then again he's so precious I hope we never see him unhappy)

Sorry, but I don't get the Caroline Zhang love. It's with good reason she's not here. Her record at past GP's since 2009 is very poor. IIRC, she was given at least one Skate America TBA spot and pretty much embarrassed herself and the USFSA. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on ..... The USFSA likely has a collective long memory on this.

Her 5th place at Nationals last year was as much surviving a war of attrition (when better skaters faltered) as it was any inherent skating brilliance. When I watch her skate now, I still see the same lack of speed and poor jump technique that has dogged her forever. The positive difference now is that she seems to skate with more heart than in past years...but while I'm glad that she's found a sense of renewal, that's not enough to give her the benefit of a doubt over up-and-comers like Bradie Tennell. I would take a chance on Courtney Hicks or even Amber Glenn on the GP before I would Caroline. I don't see a place for sentimentality in the decision on who gets the TBA.

Caroline should get some Senior B's, where she has done well at in the past, and try to boost her World standings points. She needs to EARN her way back to top international competition assignments. I suspect she is very aware of this.

Preach! I love Caroline as a person, but as a skater she has a lot of work to do.

USFSA is finally waking up to the fact that you need to develop young skaters before throwing bones to older skaters who have problems they haven't fixed. They're still giving the benefit of the doubt to some vets over rookies, but it's much less than in the past. When they do throw that bone to a struggling vet, it is with good reason to be optimistic (ie. Mirai Nagasu improving placements and getting fewer URs). With so few spots, you need to make room for both the veterans and the future. We have many veterans of the Senior GP that have a very good chance of placing higher than Caroline at any given GP (Ashley, Gracie, Mirai, Karen, Mariah), some vets that would likely place higher than Caroline if they're on this season (Polina & Courtney), and some up-and-comers that could use valuable Senior GP experience (Amber, Bradie).

Maybe after she builds up more of an international resume she'll be a better candidate, but when your only international medal in the last 5 seasons is a silver in a competition with a weak field (and with a score of 166.93 - good for an average of 8th place at a GP that season compared to the average US Lady GP rank that season of 5th) it's unrealistic to have a GP spot. Judging at Nationals and US club competitions is very different than international judging, so I prefer only to compare international results with international results. Not to mention judging/scoring at club competitions can be a lot more inconsistent due to having a wider variety of judges on those panels experience/level/rating-wise.

ETA: It should also be mentioned that not all international competitions are equal. For instance, there are ISU sanctioned events that use ISU judging panels. Some of the club competitions with an "international" component to them do not have ISU judging panels - just skaters from non-US countries (I'm not sure how the "international" component of the competition this summer was run). In synchro, there are several US club competitions that allow foreign teams to compete, but are not ISU events. I've also seen this with local club competitions because we used to have a lot of foreign competitors training in the area.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Is Jason ever not excited for something? I admire his unwavering positive attitude - it's truly amazing. You'd think there'd be something that would make him unhappy, right? (Then again he's so precious I hope we never see him unhappy)

LOL, I feel like he is forever on The Price Is Right! And, thats a good thing!

 

[Karpenko]

Caroline can't have any international success to justify her place if they never send her to anything! that's kind of the predicament that we're in here.

Jason is one of those strong positive people, he's very good at killing people with kindness and not giving a damn about any of the negativity. He could make anybody smile and prevent wars from happening.

 

[jlai]

Caroline can't have any international success to justify her place if they never send her to anything! that's kind of the predicament that we're in here.

But other than the one SA spot, which should go to Bradie in the first place, USFSA does not have any GP spots to give.

Once the Senior Bs are out, we'll see if Zhang gets skipped.

Last season, Zhang got challenge cup and scored in the 160s and in second. She will need to score at least 20 points more if she wants USFSA to send her anywhere else.

 

[dr.frog]

FWIW, I have heard from that neither Grant nor Caroline really trains like a serious athlete, with a full schedule of off-ice training, etc. They are both said to be full-time coaches who skate a little on the side, rather than full-time athletes who coach a little on the side. Grant's still managed to earn his GP assignments on the basis of his ranking points, but Caroline has not, and I think USFS is correct not to hand out plum assignments they control to a skater who hasn't earned them and won't bring publicity to the event. Moreover USFS has ALWAYS, for DECADES, preferred to give competition opportunities to younger skaters. Caroline benefited from that policy herself when she was in her mid-teens but now the skate is on the other foot.

 

[aftershocks]

... neither Grant nor Caroline really trains like a serious athlete...

^^ Grant and Caroline are not independently wealthy and must find a way to pay bills and training expenses. Unfortunately, for many skaters on the margins of the top heap, and those struggling just to make it to the margin of the top heap (including e.g., Pfund/Santillan), they have to work and that usually means coaching, which cuts into their training time, not by personal preference, but by survival necessity. Walk a mile in their skate boots.

I would agree that under the current limiting antiquated structure of the way the sport is run, USFS has lots of difficult choices to make, and they understandably want to give viable opportunities to up-and-coming young talent. Tennell and many others need nurturing. Certainly at this point, Tennell also has little name recognition, much less than Zhang, so that's not a factor re Champs camp inclusion.

Sigh, the skaters are likely less bothered by this ('who's there, who's not') stuff than us fans. Meanwhile, let's not diminish what Caroline has already achieved in coming back to the point she has from serious back surgery. Amazing that she's even skating, and with some noticeable improvements and a great deal of calm, focused determination.

May the USFS invite to Grant and the girl next to him more often, please , they seem the only ones excited to be there.

That's Grant with Tarah Kayne. I'll bet everyone there is excited to be there, no matter what expressions are showing on their faces.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I thought Champs Camp was for skaters with GP's or for a TBA skate-off, although I'm not sure that has happened until possibly this year.

Is the argument that Zhang should have gotten the TBA instead of Tennell, who is assumes to have gotten it?

 

[Dobre]

Is the argument that Zhang should have gotten the TBA instead of Tennell, who is assumes to have gotten it?

I would assume that the argument is twofold. That Caroline had an argument for the TBA spot with her fifth place finish at Nationals. And that she should not be overlooked. After all, she finished fifth at Nationals over a good many ladies that were given Challengers & international assignments prior to Nationals last year. Perhaps if Caroline had been assigned a Challenger already, we would not be having this argument. (I hardly think she can be blamed for earning her livelihood. If she can do so and still finish fifth at U.S. Nationals, I'm impressed. Imagine what she could do if she didn't have to spend so many hours coaching. It's a good career path for her though. I'm so happy she is finding fulfillment in the sport she loves).

But I don't see any need to worry that Caroline will be overlooked. Last season, she had to prove herself because she had missed the season before & placed at the bottom before that. This season she is ranked fifth and did quite well in her summer event. I think she'll get an assignment. It just won't be SA. (I was rooting for her, but it was fairly easy to see that Bradie had the strongest argument this summer). As far as the rest of the season goes, honestly, there are pluses in competing later on the Challenger Series.

 

[el henry]

I have no opinion on the ladies, God bless 'em all, but...

If Grant has to spend some time earning a living, and building a "real life" career, and preparing for a life after competition, ....and still ends up being "Mr. Pewter" at every US Nats, including 2017, well good for him

And I just love love love his interactions with Jason at Champs Camp, both this and the previous ones. From the sotto voce deadpan "*He's* really excited" to

Grant is not happy about having lost to Jason's lucky frog

they're my fav duo.

 

[leigh466]

Grant and Caroline are not independently wealthy and must find a way to pay bills and training expenses. Unfortunately, for many skaters on the margins of the top heap, and those struggling just to make it to the margin of the top heap (including e.g., Pfund/Santillan), they have to work and that usually means coaching, which cuts into their training time, not by personal preference, but by survival necessity. Walk a mile in their skate boots.

Thank You!