U.S. Ladies [#17]: Heading to Helsinki in a Handbasket

[DobrinFan]

who was the caller at COC when they handed Ash a basket gift full of < and <<... a chinese caller? I cant remember...

Shin Amano, he was at Junior Worlds.

 

[Spun Silver]

who was the caller at COC when they handed Ash a basket gift full of < and <<... a chinese caller? I cant remember...

I agree.

Also I don't really think of the close calls got away with anything as mag claims because I think those jump short of rotation (but not enough to be called short) were taken into consideration on the GOE, especially in Ashley's case.

Check out the vid reposted from the Skating Protocol on The Skating Lesson's Instagram (and perhaps their thread here and their FB as well). I am too tired to search it out. Both of their combos looked very UR.

 

[Jammers]

To be honest of all the top ladies Ashley might have the weakest skating skills. She's constantly giving away points with her spins and she lacks transitions and one foot skating. She sells the hell out of her programs but if you just look at her skating it's not impressive. That's why people thought if Gracie ever got consistent she would never lose to Ashley people Gracie was a overall superior skater but we know how that's turned out in the last year.

 

[DDNatalia]

For Karen, seems to have proved very helpful advice: "Skating Dumb" I realize it came from Kristi Yamaguchi. IIRC, didn't Kurt Browning provide that very same advice to Kristi herself back in the day when they both trained up in Canada?

 

[Jarrett]

Check out the vid reposted from the Skating Protocol on The Skating Lesson's Instagram (and perhaps their thread here and their FB as well). I am too tired to search it out. Both of their combos looked very UR.

I saw the jumps and already unsubbed from that account on Instagram. There is no way Karens jump was close to 180 degree uder rotated like he suggests in the comments. Couple that with a previous post questioning a judge that gave ashley a -2 on a jump that he himself thought was under rotated from nationals... yea i dont think his opinion is a realiable source anymore.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I personally think the combination was underrotated and am kind of annoyed that Wakaba is not at least a few points closer to Karen, but I guess it doesn't matter what I think. Karen hasn't had even a clean "ish" international short in a while, so I guess this means judges like her a lot. I'm thinking that her speed makes a good impression. I don't think the Skating Protocol guy is biased, he has professed to be a big fan of Karen and had a post about how her combos at nationals were rotated (which I disagreed with), but it's still one guy's opinion at the end of the day, so of course people can disagree. I'm thinking that Karen will do well in the long.

 

[Willin]

I guess my thing is that this caller being lenient may benefit Karen and Ashley, every skater had the same caller, so her leniency on URs theoretically benefited everyone in the field. It's not like the caller was like "I'm going to ignore all URs from Americans" - the caller probably just didn't call them as much for anyone in the field. Of course, it probably benefited the US skaters most because they had obvious URs that didn't get called, but I'm sure there were plenty of other skaters with URs that weren't called.

 

[mag]

I guess my thing is that this caller being lenient may benefit Karen and Ashley, every skater had the same caller, so her leniency on URs theoretically benefited everyone in the field. It's not like the caller was like "I'm going to ignore all URs from Americans" - the caller probably just didn't call them as much for anyone in the field. Of course, it probably benefited the US skaters most because they had obvious URs that didn't get called, but I'm sure there were plenty of other skaters with URs that weren't called.

Except that it doesn't work that way. For skaters with clean jumps, they are not getting any bonus. For skaters with cheated jumps they get at least a 30% bonus on each cheated jump. With so few elements in the short, it can make a big difference. For example if the 3T on the end of the combo and the 3lo solo jump should have been marked as < that is a 2.8 mark BONUS. Right now there are just over 6 points between the podium and 10th place. With seven jump elements in the free lenient calls could make a huge difference.

 

[VGThuy]

Is Vanessa Gusermoli known for being very lenient? If she is, maybe she has extra sympathies for the skater as a former high level competitor who did triples herself.

 

[mag]

I don't understand how not doing her job is being sympathetic. Every time an underrotation is not called, skaters who do not underrotate are penalized. How about some sympathy for skaters with clean jumps!

 

[VGThuy]

In that case, why don't you write her a letter to let her know your outrage and demand that she explain herself?

I'm not saying it's right, but I don't think it's hard to imagine her thinking that siding more on the side giving more benefit of the doubt to skaters is being "nicer" even if it ultimately isn't fair to those who don't need such lenient calls. Who knows though. Maybe that's not why she's doing it and is just "blind".

 

[Vagabond]

Just a gentle reminder. The Technical Specialist reviews jumps using footage shot with a camera that uses the Tech Panel's vantage point, not the cameras used for the broadcast feed. Without access to what the judges' see, we have no way of knowing whether she is overlooking anything.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

In that case, why don't you write her a letter to let her know your outrage and demand that she explain herself?

I'm not saying it's right, but I don't think it's hard to imagine her thinking that siding more on the side giving more benefit of the doubt to skaters is being "nicer" even if it ultimately isn't fair to those who don't need such lenient calls. Who knows though. Maybe that's not why she's doing it and is just "blind".

A little reminder : They need two of the technical panel to call the jump UR to be marked as if. Two out of three. Just one doesn't make the call.

 

[VGThuy]

A little reminder : They need two of the technical panel to call the jump UR to be marked as if. Two out of three. Just one doesn't make the call.

I know, but it's been noted that the technical specialist has a lot of power since they're the ones making the initial calls and then the assistant then has to fight back. I read it changes the dynamic a bit.

 

[Jun Y]

Perhaps today's results can finally put an end to all the Karen Chen bashing, which got a bit ugly after 4CC. I wish this could serve as a lesson to prevent future premature (or any) bashing of young skaters who seem to offend some fans one way or another, but that would be asking for too much, isn't it?

 

[tylersf]

Yay Karen in 4th, Ashley in 7th, Mariah in 12th! We can send 3 to the Olympics!

 

[Jarrett]

I'm happy the ladies held on to three stops. I thought we were doomed after Ashley's skate but then everyone else imploded too. Anyone know if this means Karen and Mirai will be the ones invited to World Team Trophy next month? They are based off the season's world ranking right?

 

[Tesla]

Perhaps today's results can finally put an end to all the Karen Chen bashing. I wish this could serve as a lesson to prevent future premature (or any) bashing of young skaters who seem to offend some fans one way or another, but that would be asking for too much, isn't it?

It's reminiscent of how some didn't want S-K/K to go to Worlds, yet they outscored all of the other US pairs in just their second competition of the season. I'm very proud of all the ladies.

 

[Jammers]

I'm hoping Gracie took a long hard look at this event. The fact that Daleman who hasn't won much of anything in her career now has a World medal and she doesn't should tell her something. I said for over three years all Gracie had to do was go out there and land her jumps confidently and she would have won most any event including the World title. It's not like Daleman is some kind of amazing artist either and the judges were always ready to give Gracie the title.

 

[DimaToe]

Great debut by Chen, and glad Wagner was able to keep her placement. It shows that the pool in the U.S. isn't really as shallow as we might like to think sometimes. Even with the 4th and 10th place finishers from 2016 worlds not on this team the 3 spots still remained, plus 4th and 7th and 12th aren't exactly disaster placements. All 3 ladies guaranteed themselves 2 GP spots form next season.

I kind of felt for Ashley though. It's obvious her and Gold had to peak mid Olympic cycle. So of course the season after wouldn't be a smooth one. I'm excited to get underdog Ashley back next season though

 

[skatesindreams]

All of this talk about the "demise" of the US ladies was, and is, ridiculous!

 

[Mayra]

All of this talk about the "demise" of the US ladies was, and is, ridiculous!

You are only as good as your last competition, and then all sins are forgiven or magnified for US ladies.

 

[all_empty]

Congrats to Karen Chen for being the top U.S. finisher and almost making the podium.

She's been around for a number of years steadily improving. She has an attack and motivation that is encouraging to see.

I too thought our hopes for three ladies were dashed after Ashley skated, but the crazy placements ended up working out for the U.S. (sadly no so much for Japan).

 

[love_skate2011]

All of this talk about the "demise" of the US ladies was, and is, ridiculous!

yeah but turns out sadly it was the demise of another country's 3 spots for Olympics, Japan

 

[NadineWhite]

That's good we have 3 spots because I want Mirai Nagasu to finally do that 3axel. You brought me back in, kid, during the US Nationals, but you disappointed by not going for that storied 3axel.

 

[clairecloutier]

Wow! So happy that Karen & Ashley combined to keep our 3 spots. And Karen almost medaled at her first Worlds!! It's a much better outcome than I was hoping for; I have to admit I doubted Karen after 4CCs. Congratulations to her, especially.

 

[DimaToe]

the U.S ladies have dominated the pewter at worlds this Olympic cycle Gold in 2015 and 2016, and now Karen Chen in 2017

 

[bardtoob]

US Nationals 2018 is going to be crowded for the ladies, even with 3 spots.

Chen 4th 2017 Worlds and Reigning National Champion
Wagner 2nd 2016 Worlds and Former National Champion
Gold 4th 2016 Worlds, Former National Champion, 4th in the previous Olympics
Bell 3rd 2017 US Nationals
Nagasu 2nd 2017 4CC over Chen and Bell, Former National Champion, 4th at a previous Olympics . . . the 3A is now really a must.

. . . Then Edmunds . . .

 

[MrSatterwhite]

Does Mariah Bell get two GP next season?

 

[bardtoob]

Perhaps today's results can finally put an end to all the Karen Chen bashing, which got a bit ugly after 4CC.

Give it a rest. Chen learned from 4CC, which is good, but she got comments because of how she ACTUALLY PERFORMED when she came in 12th at 4CC and did not win anybody's confidence.

That being said, I am glad she did her job when it mattered and improved opportunities for all the US ladies next year, although she will not be entitled to a spot at the Olympics until after she is competitive during her upcoming performances.