Japanese figure skating 2022-23 season news & updates

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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16,954
I dunno about the women; but regarding the men, there's a real question as to who the A team & B team are. The guys going to 4CCs need the experience at a major international. (As does Yamamoto). If they had had the experience at a major international previously, the selection for the World team might have been different. I think it's pretty important that Shun & Miura get that experience. And there was no question Shimada needed to be sent.

As for Shoma, he's clearly A team; but usually we don't see the men's winner from Japanese Nationals attend. Recently, I've figured that was because neither Hanyu nor Shoma wanted to go into 4CCs as the #1 guy from Japan and lose to the other one prior to Worlds. That's not an issue this year; but it's not unusual for the Japanese men's champion not to come. It's unusual for #2 & #3 not to come, but this was quite an unusual set of Nationals results for the guys relative to their GP finishes.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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16,954
Oh, I wanted to add that I'm happy for Sota. I think he earned this berth and I know he would have liked to skate better at Nationals. But it's been a long, hard fight for him; and I'm glad to see both Sota & Mai overcoming the health challenges they've faced. Two comebacks that have been years in the making & required a lot of learning, determination, and grit along the way.
 

YukiNieve

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1,608
I don’t know what exactly he was referring to either, but have seen speculation elsewhere that he may have been sticking up for his training mate Koshiro only being named second alternate to Worlds after winning silver at Nationals. He did follow up his remark about not being entirely happy with the team selection with “regarding me,” which makes me think his previous statement was not about himself.
That is what many Japanese fans are guessing - he was not talking about the situation about himself, but about his training-mate. But he also did not mean to deny the opportunities given to other teammates - what (we think) he was referring to is the selection process that changes so often and is not necessarily cleat-cut.
 

On My Own

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5,010
Uno is not someone who has ever shied away from competition. My guess is he would have quite liked the chance to win a second 4CCs crown. I think that title is one that he valued, because, as he himself noted in Anaheim in 2019, it was his biggest international outright victory until he won Worlds last year.
He is a 25 year old man who is attempting 4-5 quads and has had troubles with boots and I believe injuries in the past. I don't think he and his team will be going to unnecessary competitions anymore. It'd have been great if they'd sent Tomono to 4CCs, but it makes a perfectly competitive field to be sending the JNats silver and two men who made the GPF this season.
 

her grace

Team Guignard/Fabbri
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6,492
I find the prestige arguments of Euros v. 4CC tiresome, but it looks like the men's field are evenly matched

4CC (skaters ranked by SB list)
4 Miura
7 Cha
8 Sato
14 Messing? (*pending Canada's nominations)
15 Shimada
18 Lee
19 Pulkinen? (*pending USA's nominations)

Euros
5 Siao Him Fa
6 Grassl? (*pending Italy's nominations)
9 Aymoz
10 Vasiljevs
11 Bristschgi
12 Rizzo? (*pending Italy's nominations)
17 Frangipani/22 Memola? (*pending Italy's nominations)
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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37,641
I think the only assignments that I question are:

1) Rinka Watanabe getting both Worlds and 4CCs - but, it's not as though Sumiyoshi or Kihira were appreciably better than her over the season or at Nationals. As inconsistent as Watanabe is, especially in the SP, I fully expect her to blow it either in Colorado Springs or Saitama and she's going to be lucky to get decent WS points from one of the events, but not both
Jackie Wong applied the selection criteria, except (3d), the fourth criteria for the third selection and tweeted:

So then unless another senior-eligible skater finished in the top 3 at Japan Nationals, Rinka Watanabe's spot at Worlds seemed to be all but set no matter how she did at Nationals because she had such a strong set of results internationally.
Eventual top three: Sakamoto, Mihara, Shimada (not eligible)

Flow of decisions for the women: 1) Sakamoto -> select Sakamoto 2a) Mihara; 2b) Mihara, Watanabe, 2c) Mihara, Watanabe -> select Mihara 3a) Watanabe, b) Watanabe, c) Watanabe, d) ?? -> select Watanabe
https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1607019976124411906

where Watanabe was the only eligible selection for the first three criteria (a-c) for the third selection, after being bypassed for the second selection; Mihara was the only other woman eligible for that. Someone responded that Yoshida was eligible for the 4th criteria. If this is correct, then Sumiyoshi and Kihara did not meet the selection criteria.
 

Karen-W

Checking Senior Bs for TES mins...
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36,124
Jackie Wong applied the selection criteria, except (3d), the fourth criteria for the third selection and tweeted:
Jackie Wong is an idiot since the 4CCs selection criteria is different than the Worlds criteria. I don't know that anyone is challenging Watanabe's selection for the Worlds team, though I would posit the argument that it isn't entirely clear. If ONLY the 2nd & 3rd place finishers, regardless of age-eligibility, meet the criteria for B & C of the Worlds selection criteria, then doesn't it follow that ONLY skaters who are in the WS, WR and SB Top 6 meet the 4CCs criteria?

2. Four Continents Figure Skating Championships (Men's and Women's Singles, Pairs, and Ice Dance: 3 slots each)
(1) Male and female single
At the end of the All Japan Championships, a comprehensive judgment will be made from those who meet one of the following criteria.
A) Top 10 of All Japan Championships
B) His/Her top six ISU World Standings at the end of the All Japan Championships
C) Top 6 ISU Season World Rankings at the end of the All Japan Championships
D) Top 6 ISU Season Best Scores at the end of the All Japan Championships
E) At international competitions dispatched before the All Japan Championships and domestic competitions[*1] designated by the strengthening department
Season Best Total Element Score [*2] Top 6 players

A) Sakamoto, Mihara, Chiba, Yoshida, Aoki, Kawabe

B) Sakamoto (1), Mihara (4)... If you follow on down the line and take the top six Japanese women in the ISU WS - Watanabe (20), Higuchi (21), Matsuike (24), Kawabe (25)

C) Watanabe (4), Mihara (5), Sakamoto (6)... Following down the WR with the top six Japanese women - Kawabe (14), Sumiyoshi (21), Shimada (22)*

D) Shimada (1)*, Sakamoto (2), Mihara (3)... Following down the SB with the top six Japanese women - Watanabe (7), Yoshida (8), Nakai (9)

I think what's clear, based on both the Women's and Men's selections, is the JSF did what they wanted and found a way for the criteria to fit their selections. ;)
 

mtnskater

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,196
I know Kagiyama is coming back from injury, but I’m still shocked that the Olympic Silver medalist is not being sent to 4CC or Worlds. Wondering if he should have passed on his Nationals. He said in interviews his father suggested it, but Yuma said he did not want to miss. Watching his skate, it’s clear he has also grown…or filled out a bit this year and no longer looks like a boy. I sure hope he can heal and get back to form! I was looking forward to watching Yuma and Ilia go head to head this quad.
 

Holy Headband

chair of the Lee Sihyeong international fanclub
Messages
1,654
I think the fact he’s standing up for Shimada makes Uno a good friend and I’m not criticising him for speaking out, but I totally understand JSF’s selection in this instance. Yamamoto has had a very successful season internationally and Shimada simply doesn’t have the same scoring potential at his best as either Yamamoto or Tanaka at theirs. Shimada deserved his silver here, but it was down to him having one of his cleanest competitions ever and the whole event being a last-man-standing fiasco. I would be hesitant to trust him too when I need to secure 3 spots and he’s as likely to finish 18th at Worlds as he is to finish 8th.

Nationals is a tool that helps the fed determine who’s in form and most likely to help them achieve their targets, not a binding contest to decide who ‘deserves’ the personal honour of going to the most prestigious competitions the most, and JSF’s selection criteria are flexible enough to reflect that.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
678
He is a 25 year old man who is attempting 4-5 quads and has had troubles with boots and I believe injuries in the past. I don't think he and his team will be going to unnecessary competitions anymore. It'd have been great if they'd sent Tomono to 4CCs, but it makes a perfectly competitive field to be sending the JNats silver and two men who made the GPF this season.
I can't imagine Shoma will not compete until Worlds, that will be almost 3 months without competition and not something that sounds great in preparation for Worlds. I tend to believe we will see him in some competition, likely Challenge Cup.
 

SkateFanBerlin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,603
Did Japan announce for 4CCs and Worlds? I'm lost in all the theories and fan applications of the selection criteria. I can't find the actual selections.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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79,976
I posted all of them one page back (post #189) - direct link doesn't work well when there are embedded tweets so quoting myself:
Link to JSF's ISU Championships selection announcement documents (in Japanese): https://www.skatingjapan.or.jp/figure/news/detail.php?id=179

Worlds 2023 (March 20-26 in Saitama JPN):
Shoma Uno [S1/GPF1], Sota Yamamoto [S5/GPF2], Kazuki Tomono [S3];
Kaori Sakamoto [S1/GPF5], Mai Mihara [S2/GPF1], Rinka Watanabe [S12/GPF4];
Riku Miura / Ryuichi Kihara [GPF1];
Kana Muramoto / Daisuke Takahashi [S1].

Alternates:
Women 1-3: Hana Yoshida, Mone Chiba, Mana Kawabe [S9]
Men 1-3: Shun Sato, Koshiro Shimada, Kao Miura
Ice Dance: Misato Komatsubara/Tim Koleto

4CC 2023 (Feb. 7-12 in Colorado Springs, CO USA):
Koshiro Shimada [S2], Shun Sato [S4/GPF4], Kao Miura [S6/GPF5];
Rinka Watanabe [S12/GPF4], Hana Yoshida [S6/JGPF6], Mone Chiba [S5/J2];
Riku Miura / Ryuichi Kihara [GPF1];
Kana Muramoto / Daisuke Takahashi [S1], Misato Komatsubara / Tim Koleto [S2].

Alternates:
Women 1-3: Mana Kawabe [S9], Rion Sumiyoshi [S14], Rika Kihira [S11]
Men 1-3: Kazuki Tomono, Sota Yamamoto, Tatsuya Tsuboi [S9]

Junior Worlds 2023 (Feb. 27-March 5 in Calgary AB CAN):
Nozomu Yoshioka [J1/S10/JGPF3], Kao Miura [S6/GPF5];
Mao Shimada [J1/S3/JGPF1], Ami Nakai [J3/S4/JGPF4];
Haruna Murakami / Sumitada Moriguchi [S1/JGPF4];
Nao Kida / Masaya Morita [J1].

Alternates:
Women 1-2: Mone Chiba, Hana Yoshida
Men 1-2: Shunsuke Nakamura [J4/S11/JGPF4], Haruya Sasaki [J3/S15]
Ice Dance: Sara Kishimoto/Atsuhiko Tamura [J2]

From the FISU World University Games 2023 thread (figure skating competition is Jan. 13-15 in Lake Placid, NY): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...u-world-university-games.109983/#post-6347989

Team Japan was announced on Nov. 12: https://twitter.com/figureskatingm1/status/1591418844182360067

Yuma Kagiyama
Shun Sato
Tatsuya Tsuboi

Kaori Sakamoto
Mai Mihara
Rion Sumiyoshi

(Alts: Sota Yamamoto, Kosho Oshima, Kazuki Hasegawa; Rinka Watanabe, Maria Egawa, Mako Yamashita)
 

On My Own

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,010
I don't see why people think Uno was speaking about Yamamoto. Yamamoto made the GPF. I'd assumed it was Tomono he was talking about.

I don't see why it matters either way. He's simply an adult man expressing his confusion politely (to the disbelief of 🕳️ fans on twitter, who think he's just too dumb to even understand the rules).
 

Sylvia

TBD
Messages
79,976
I missed seeing Oshima's "Top Gun" FS (clip tweeted above) but was entertained by his SP music ("Real?" by MIYAVI) & costume that he kept from last year (added a new hairstyle ;)) - SP clip: https://twitter.com/online_on_ice/status/1606238114124398592

He tweeted this throwback vs. present day pic with Taichiro Yamakuma, fellow Meiji University student, after the East Japan Section Championships that Oshima won in early November ("... and! Taichiro-kun decided to retire this year, and I'm more than happy to be able to participate in the All Japan Championship together 😆"): https://twitter.com/KoshoOshima/status/1589101288050266112

Yamakuma's 12/25/22 tweet (he finished 13th and Oshima 14th at Nationals) - machine translation:
Thank you for the All Japan Championship.
Thanks to everyone's warm encouragement, I was able to enjoy skating from the bottom of my heart.
I was really happy to be in the group in the second half of the free skate and skate in the best place.
There are only a few games left, but I'm going to enjoy it from the bottom of my heart!
Thank you for your support until the end!

@YukiNieve, I found this interview with Kosho ("Koto") Oshima that was published on Dec. 18 :):
 
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kwanette

Fetalized since 1998
Messages
3,448
There is an awful lot of speculation in this article "appears to be" "psychic" "who is friends w whom" "the future"..We have all predicted the "He's got next"..or "She's got next"..Yukina Ota, Tiffiny Chin, Naomi Nari Nam..anyone? I think this "journalist" should set up an interview w Shoma...and ask him EXACTLY what he meant..My take..
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
678
I don't see why people think Uno was speaking about Yamamoto. Yamamoto made the GPF. I'd assumed it was Tomono he was talking about.

I don't see why it matters either way. He's simply an adult man expressing his confusion politely (to the disbelief of 🕳️ fans on twitter, who think he's just too dumb to even understand the rules).
It's fanyus propaganda. I still think he either called out the lack of transparency of the selection criteria or the lack of consistency of the Japanese federation in following it, or he was unhappy with the decision not to send him to 4CC which might blindside him. The claim that he was talking about either Sota or Kazuki is one that fanyus made up without anything to back it up, but as always with them, you can bet they will spread it around as much as they possibly can (loved the 🕳️ fans btw).
 

Holy Headband

chair of the Lee Sihyeong international fanclub
Messages
1,654
It's fanyus propaganda. I still think he either called out the lack of transparency of the selection criteria or the lack of consistency of the Japanese federation in following it, or he was unhappy with the decision not to send him to 4CC which might blindside him. The claim that he was talking about either Sota or Kazuki is one that fanyus made up without anything to back it up, but as always with them, you can bet they will spread it around as much as they possibly can (loved the 🕳️ fans btw).
The Japanese media seem pretty convinced he was commenting on Shimada's snub, not his own assignments. If you can find his full quote somewhere, he says his piece about the criteria and then he says, "And as for me, . . ." or something to that effect, implying the first part of his answer was not about him personally.

People really need to stop blaming every take they disagree with on "fanyus."
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
678
The Japanese media seem pretty convinced he was commenting on Shimada's snub, not his own assignments. If you can find his full quote somewhere, he says his piece about the criteria and then he says, "And as for me, . . ." or something to that effect, implying the first part of his answer was not about him personally.

People really need to stop blaming every take they disagree with on "fanyus."
I heard and read the full quote, he was very vague in his wording and did not name anyone specifically, and only commented on the selection criteria. Since it was fanyus who decided to supply an alternative "translation" for his words including flat out saying he was insulting Sota, it's perfectly fine blaming them for it (and let's be honest, the list of things they are guilty of is very long so this is basically a drop in the pool).
 

Sylvia

TBD
Messages
79,976
Th full text of this article is behind a paywall (can anyone access it?):
2nd place Koshiro Shimada (21 = Kinoshita Group) was not selected and went to the 4 Continents Championships (February next year, Colorado Springs, USA), which is mainly for young people. The first substitute was Shun Sato (18 = Meiji University), and Shimada made a "comprehensive judgment" in light of the selection criteria, and as a result, the second substitute = 5th place overall. He explained the premise that "selection is not a one-shot match for all Japan [Nationals placement, presumably]".
Mr. Takeuchi's explanation, "It's time for the last train to run out, but I would like to explain the selection criteria for this time," Mr. Takeuchi explained, and the questions and answers with the press are as follows. [...]
ETA: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202212260001364.html
The night before [Dec. 25 after Men's FS], the federation announced the representative members for major tournaments in the second half of the season, such as the World Championships (March 2023, Saitama Super Arena), but Yosuke Takeuchi, director of the strengthening department, said, "(Before the world championships announcement press conference) I didn't have time to explain," he said. On this day, it is said that there were voices from each camp asking for advance explanations to the players in the future.
 
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Sylvia

TBD
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79,976
"Kao, Yuma, and Shun visiting Osaka Castle together" [after Nationals]: https://twitter.com/YumachiGIFs/status/1607379845797015553
Source - 3rd photo in Kao Miura's Instagram post yesterday: https://www.instagram.com/p/CmoXefsJqHn/
Machine translation:
Thank you for your support at the All-Japan Championship. Didn't turn out how I wanted it but this is how I'm at it. But we managed to get 2nd place result in free. I also received a delegation for the 4 [Continents] Championship and the World Junior Championships, so I'm going to believe in myself and do my best!
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,262
Criteria aside, the Japanese men's field is too deep for the same three people to be sent to both Worlds and 4CCs. So they found a way within the published criteria to make it work (send 5 men out), good for them. Sota earned his spot by placing 2nd at GPF and with Hanyu out and Kagiyama injured, is the undisputed #2. If anything, the dispute should be on Kazuki vs Koshiro for the 3rd spot, and Kazuki winning out that face-off quite easily as well.

Just looking at the championships assignments, it is interesting that Rinka and Kao, both only third best internationally this season and didn't have the best Nationals, ultimately got 2 assignments.
 
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PRlady

Cowardly admin
Staff member
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45,791
Well, Mana, Rika and Rion were all on the GP and didn’t do well enough to get to the GPF. Rinka did, and that counts a lot to the JSF. As it should.
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
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15,262
What I meant was, in comparison, Shoma, Sota, Karoi, Mai all skated better throughout the season and at Nationals and solidified their positions as Nationals #1 and 2 and somehow only got 1 Championship assignment, whereas Kao and Rinka got 2.

I suppose Japanese Fed regards Winter University Games much more highly than others do. I would understand why Shoma might be upset / confused to be the leading man for Japan all along this season and only have 1 major assignment post-Nationals. 4CCs is easy prize money too.

Now that the world is opening up, I hope the next World Team Trophy will come along soon.
 
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On My Own

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5,010
It's fanyus propaganda. I still think he either called out the lack of transparency of the selection criteria or the lack of consistency of the Japanese federation in following it, or he was unhappy with the decision not to send him to 4CC which might blindside him. The claim that he was talking about either Sota or Kazuki is one that fanyus made up without anything to back it up, but as always with them, you can bet they will spread it around as much as they possibly can (loved the 🕳️ fans btw).
I wouldn't say it's about 4CCs, because I don't believe it's about his own assignments. Obviously, it's up to our own interpretation, because he was being vague and polite. I just disagree it can possibly be about Yamamoto. And I disagree it's because Uno is an idiot, much like I disagree Uno was "tactless" for saying he was rooting for Chen at the Olympics. You can't be bullsh*tting about "Olympic spirit" and "rightly criticizing rules" and decide to not even apply it to anyone else, all from the same deluded fanbase that needs to bugger off already.

Oh, and by the way: If certain people fancy themselves geniuses, then they should know geniuses are self-critical first. It is the fools who are convinced everyone else is more foolish than they are.
 

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