From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

[mjb52]

There's been so much news lately maybe I missed it, but what's up with Drozd and partner (Konkina?)? They haven't competed yet at all or been at the test skates. Are they training? And are there any updates on Rylov?

 

[hanca]

There's been so much news lately maybe I missed it, but what's up with Drozd and partner (Konkina?)? They haven't competed yet at all or been at the test skates. Are they training? And are there any updates on Rylov?

He had two surgeries, nothing serious. His mum is very unwell, in hospital for Covid related pneumonia. No recent news whether he is back on the ice, but from August there was youtube link of them doing triple Salchow. Careful, but landed and looked ok. Whether they can land it in the program, we will see.

 

[Cherub721]

Wow, first Galliamov and now Kozlovski, it seems that it is a matter of time before Moskvina gets it. It looks it is spreading in her group and neither Galliamov nor Kozlovski probably had any significant symptoms (otherwise they would go to the doctors and isolate, and not find out when they were testing for the competition), so the chance is that they spent a lot of time with Moskvina in the last few days, preparing for the competition.

So far we already know about at least five skaters on the Russian national team to get YKW right? Anastasia Shpilevaya, Tiffany Zahorski, Vladimir Morozov, Aleksandr Galliamov, and now Kozlovskii. This is getting out of hand.

Well, the good news is that so far Smirnov, Guerreiro, Tarasova, Mishina, and Boikova did not get it, and they are interacting with their partners directly, up close, for long periods of time, presumably without masks. Maybe if the symptoms are mild they are not shedding as much of the v*rus. Coaches would have less close contact than partners, so hopefully, Moskvina and the others will continue to be alright, but it is scary to think about. I get the sense that she's lived through so much, that this situation isn't going to stop her, but I hope she takes precautions.

 

[Ka3sha]

I read (a google translated article) that the Russia cup ladies free was the highest rated sports broadcast for Russia for the week (not sure how much competition there was!), guess where there is success there is drama! Sounds exciting at Angels of Plushchenko but also natural with a lot of skaters and coaches to have different groups.

Yes, ladies free skate even beat football matches of the National team. That’s huge.

 

[zoe111]

You can agree or disagree, it doesn’t matter. But the bottom line is that she has only one chance, only a few years to get her skating career to the top. If she misses her chance, she is a Russian lady, she won’t have as many chances as Carolina Kostner.

So I get that she has only one chance but she should be focusing just on what she can control- herself. It feels like her strategy is a combination of trying to making herself better and trying to make sure others don’t get better. The latter seems to me to be a distraction from the former, a waste of valuable time and mental energy best employed elsewhere. And I like Trusova and am rooting for her but this behaviour is childish

 

[NAOTMAA]

So I get that she has only one chance but she should be focusing just on what she can control- herself. It feels like her strategy is a combination of trying to making herself better and trying to make sure others don’t get better. The latter seems to me to be a distraction from the former, a waste of valuable time and mental energy best employed elsewhere. And I like Trusova and am rooting for her but this behaviour is childish

I'm not able to read the article at this moment but does it seriously give the vibe that she's "trying to make sure others don't get better" really? That sounds too ridiculous to be true. Although I guess stranger things have happened

Besides that strategy always backfires and never works. Any movie/tv show about competition will tell you that, even the worst

 

[hanca]

So I get that she has only one chance but she should be focusing just on what she can control- herself. It feels like her strategy is a combination of trying to making herself better and trying to make sure others don’t get better. The latter seems to me to be a distraction from the former, a waste of valuable time and mental energy best employed elsewhere. And I like Trusova and am rooting for her but this behaviour is childish

But she is not making sure others don’t get better. She chose by whom she wants to be coached. We don’t know what was promised to her when she moved to Pluschenko. It is quite possible that the main attraction of moving to Pluschenko was that she would get rid of the every day competition during the daily practice she had at Tutberidze. So I can imagine that she would have been unhappy if suddenly she suddenly found out that Aliona decided to follow her. That would mean training every day with the same pressures she had at Tutberidze’s rink. It’s probably nothing personal against Aliona, but none of the top skaters were that happy training with their closest competitors (Hanyu didn’t skate at the same time as Fernandes etc). As far as we know, she doesn’t decide which coach is allowed to coach other skaters from the rink; she just decided by whom she wants to be coached. That’s her right. In fact, each of them having different coaches makes the situation much easier for everyone. There is no conflict of interest. Saying that one coach can love two skaters exactly the same is naive; if a coach is a professional, he/she may be very good at hiding it, but deep down the coach will still have some preferences. For example, even though Tutberidze wanted the best for both Medvedeva and Zagitova, her heart really was with Medvedeva. Having different coaches will make both Trusova and Kostornaya feel that their own coach has their back. That Trusova’s coach wants Trusova to win (and Kostornaya’s coach wants Kostornaya to win), rather than having the same coach who would want both of them to win and doesn’t really care which of them it will be (or secretly hoping the other one wins).

 

[NAOTMAA]

When push comes to shove if it's not written in her contact that she must be the only top lady in the group then Plushkenko and Rozanov are free to do as they please. They can take on whoever they want. It's bad business not to and it's stupid to expect them not to. And if Trusova and her parents don't like it then they can move to another coach again and this time put it on paper.

I don't blame her for being upset because everyone wants to be #1 in their coaches/teachers eyes but I don't blame Plushkenko and Rozanov either. They got to make a living too

 

[Tinami Amori]

So if this is true, rumor had it exactly backwards about which skater Ilinykh works with.

It's only now that Ilinykh maybe starting to work with Kostornaya. Perhaps she and Sasha/parents had some "issue". In any case the rumors (in that article) were correct that the two girls are "fighting for coaches" and there are "issue".

It is not at the expense of another. She doesn’t owe anything to anyone. She has no duty to be coached by a specific person. Coach-student relationship is a business relationship, not a marriage or family relationship. It is not a poor sportsmanship to change a coach if her situation did not suit her. She can change coach every day if she wants to, as long as she finds coaches willing to take her on.

She has a duty to show Good Sportsmanship behavior. This situation is a mess - on one hand Pluschenko promised her the Sun and Moon; on the other hand even a high level skater can't expect the coaches and the staff to train only them (unless it is specified in a contract in advance, and it was not apparently).

 

[angi]

Well, the good news is that so far Smirnov, Guerreiro, Tarasova, Mishina, and Boikova did not get it, and they are interacting with their partners directly, up close, for long periods of time, presumably without masks. Maybe if the symptoms are mild they are not shedding as much of the v*rus. Coaches would have less close contact than partners, so hopefully, Moskvina and the others will continue to be alright, but it is scary to think about. I get the sense that she's lived through so much, that this situation isn't going to stop her, but I hope she takes precautions.

It's true, but all it takes is that one person who got infected turns out to also be a super spreader and it can become catastrophic real fast. That's the thing with YKW, the results are unpredictable (plus, while I obviously hope it won't be the case if Kozlovskii just got diagnosed others who were exposed to him can still develop symptoms in the next couple of days even if they tested negative right now).

 

[Tinami Amori]

Yana Khokhlova's interview (training and coaches, on ice falls, life in USA, Zueva, etc.). Google translates well.

«В России тренер — несчастный человек»: Хохлова о западном менталитете, падениях на льду и семейных ценностях

В России многие фигуристы уверены, что тренеры должны заставлять их работать, а сами наставники зачастую лишены возможности экспериментировать, так как являются зависимыми. Об этом в интервью RT заявила бронзовая призёрка чемпионата мира — 2008 Яна Хохлова. По её словам, на Западе ситуация...

russian.rt.com

 

[Bellanca]

This ongoing (ott) coach/student drama is beyond ridiculous and far past the point of mind-numbing. Skating life is too short for these tedious junior high school level behaviors. Regardless if it is/was started by the coach, the student, or both, coaches should not be playing games, and neither should the students. FFS, it is not that hard. Show up to the rink, train, do the best you can, and move on because another skater's success or shortcomings cannot be controlled by the coach, a rival skater, teammates, etc. One could argue the politics put into play, but that is an issue for another day. As far as the training rink politics go, the best thing a student can do is focus on themselves and their situation. It is not Romper Room, although sometimes I wonder. May the best competitor win - that is what sports are all about or supposed to be. Nothing too complicated about it.

 

[hanca]

I don’t blame anyone, neither Trusova, nor Pluschenko or Rozanov. Trusova has the right to request by whom she wants to be coached. She also has the right to raise any requests about her training, for example she can request she wants to train at different times than Kostornaya. (Kostornaya can do exactly the same - request who she wants to be her coach and any training request that she thinks will make it more comfortable for her.) Pluschenko is the head of the school. It is in his interest to keep both Trusova and Kostornaya happy, because if they are happy, there is a bigger chance they will get the results. But at the same time, Pluschenko has the right to decide whether their requests are reasonable or not, and whether he will arrange it the way each of them wants to or not. He also has the right to kick either of them out of his school, if he thought that she (either of them) was unreasonable or had too many requests that he couldn’t or didn’t want to fulfill. Trusova (and Kostornaya) has the right to leave Pluschenko’s school if she feels that she doesn’t enjoy working in the environment with the skating conditions Pluschenko arranged for her. The same way as Kostornaya left Tutberidze when she wasn’t happy with the situation there.

 

[Bigbird]

Everybody just has too much time on their hands. If this were a regular season they'd just shut up and train and get on with it. I pray we are out from the threat of XYZ sooner rather than later.

It's the only season in which we'd ever see a coach compromise the health of a top ranked ice dance team for a measly Russian Cup event when there were other possibilities for qualifications. Absolute, utter, madness.

 

[syzygy]

No coach has ever done what Eteri over a 5 or 6 year period in the ladies discipline. Its unprecedented and unbelievable! Sure shes far from perfect and a hard ass and probably the toughest coach in figure skating. But her girls are super polite and never say anything bad about other skaters or other teams. Thats why they are so popular.

It's crazy how fast her team progressed. When Trusova landed her first quad, everyone thought it was a one person thing, but within a year, Eteri had even more girls jumping quads. No matter how she did it, results are results and her girls are amazing.

 

[hanca]

It's crazy how fast her team progressed. When Trusova landed her first quad, everyone thought it was a one person thing, but within a year, Eteri had even more girls jumping quads. No matter how she did it, results are results and her girls are amazing.

Yes, they definitely are coaches who can manage to make consistent skaters with very high technical difficulty. The question is whether the price the skaters paid for it wasn’t too much. If you ask Zagitova, I am sure she would tell you it was all worth it. But if you ask, let’s say Tsurskaya, who was great, and yet had to eventually retire without having any junior world medal, or medal from Europeans or worlds, would she think that all the injuries and the sacrifices were worth it?

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

It's crazy how fast her team progressed. When Trusova landed her first quad, everyone thought it was a one person thing, but within a year, Eteri had even more girls jumping quads. No matter how she did it, results are results and her girls are amazing.

One has to wonder how come they get so much height and power coming out of these tiny bodies...

 

[Eislauffan]

Vislobokova/Ialin debut. Not bad for their first competition, considering that they have been together roughly two months. According to the protocols, their lift has not been counted.

С. ВИСЛОБОКОВА/Д. ЯЛИН КП | S. Vislobokova/D. Yalin SP (15.10.2020) -

POOR QUALITY DUE TO PROBLEMS WITH ORIGINAL STREAM. SP Score : 56.63 Protocol : https://freeskating.info/results/2021/panin_memorial_2020/MCa_K_Scores.pdf

m.youtube.com

Thank you for the link. I like both skaters and I'm happy to see that they continue. Hopefully this will work out better than his previous partnership with Valeria Ponosova and hopefully Stanislava will get at least one consistent triple.
The lift didn't count as it was called a Group4 and the required lift for this season Pairs SP is a Group3. That is a strange mistake. On the video you can't really see the entry - maybe they tried a difficult and original entry that the Technical Panel decided is hand-to-hand rather hand-to-hip.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It's crazy how fast her team progressed. When Trusova landed her first quad, everyone thought it was a one person thing, but within a year, Eteri had even more girls jumping quads. No matter how she did it, results are results and her girls are amazing.

Davydov is also teaching his girls quads. Berestovskaya has a quad, and he recently announced that Frolova is working on 4T and nearly got it.

Тренер: Фролова уже почти освоила четверной тулуп - РИА Новости Спорт, 15.10.2020

Российская фигуристка Анна Фролова уже практически способна исполнить четверной тулуп, заявил РИА Новости тренер спортсменки Сергей Давыдов. РИА Новости Спорт, 15.10.2020

rsport.ria.ru

Pluschenko, on the other hand, while able to jump quads himself in his skating career, was NOT able to teach any of his students quads until Eteri started doing it and then he got Trusova and Zhilina from her club.

Davydov is also a victim of Pluschenko's poaching, he lost two promising students to him. But he actually teaches his girls quads from scratch, none came to him with quads ready.

 

[muffinplus]

I guess Eteri's comments about "not giving anyone special conditions" and the persona non-grata list comments don't so bad in retrospect after all this drama

 

[AxelAnnie]

Kozlovskii is ********* positive. Will miss Cup III.

Александра Бойкова - Дмитрий Козловский не выступят на третьем этапе Кубка России в Сочи

Чемпионы Европы в парном катании Александра Бойкова - Дмитрий Козловский не смогут принять участия в третьем этапе Кубка России -- Ростелеком, который пройдет в Сочи. Накануне соревнований

fsrussia.ru

Moskvina: the partner of the figure skater Kozlovskii, Boikova is healthy​

ТАСС

tass.ru

Run Moskvina...run!

 

[AxelAnnie]

Wow, first Galliamov and now Kozlovski, it seems that it is a matter of time before Moskvina gets it. It looks it is spreading in her group and neither Galliamov nor Kozlovski probably had any significant symptoms (otherwise they would go to the doctors and isolate, and not find out when they were testing for the competition), so the chance is that they spent a lot of time with Moskvina in the last few days, preparing for the competition.

TAKE THOSE WORDS AND THOUGHTS RIGHT BACK!

 

[AxelAnnie]

Vika needs to step away and heal. As hard as that is to do, it has to be done. Now would be the ideal time. The situation will not improve until they do something meaningful about it. Rest and recover.

I don't understand the reluctance to heal...now. there is not much at stake right now. And next year is the run up to the olympics. I would think people would want to be squared away before that.

 

[Ka3sha]

All Mishin’s students tested negative for YKW. They are preparing for RC#3 in Novogorsk, then will fly to Sochi

У фигуристов группы Мишина не выявлен коронавирус, они начали тренировки в Новогорске

Спортсмены готовятся к сочинскому этапу Кубка России

tass.ru

 

[taz'smum]

I don't understand the reluctance to heal...now. there is not much at stake right now. And next year is the run up to the olympics. I would think people would want to be squared away before that.

It is the fact that

All Mishin’s students tested negative for YKW. They are preparing for RC#3 in Novogorsk, then will fly to Sochi

У фигуристов группы Мишина не выявлен коронавирус, они начали тренировки в Новогорске

Спортсмены готовятся к сочинскому этапу Кубка России

tass.ru

It's an added level of stress for the skaters, preparing hard for a competition that they might not get to go to if a last minute test shows positive.

 

[Skibean]

Davydov is also teaching his girls quads. Berestovskaya has a quad, and he recently announced that Frolova is working on 4T and nearly got it.

Тренер: Фролова уже почти освоила четверной тулуп - РИА Новости Спорт, 15.10.2020

Российская фигуристка Анна Фролова уже практически способна исполнить четверной тулуп, заявил РИА Новости тренер спортсменки Сергей Давыдов. РИА Новости Спорт, 15.10.2020

rsport.ria.ru

Pluschenko, on the other hand, while able to jump quads himself in his skating career, was NOT able to teach any of his students quads until Eteri started doing it and then he got Trusova and Zhilina from her club.

Davydov is also a victim of Pluschenko's poaching, he lost two promising students to him. But he actually teaches his girls quads from scratch, none came to him with quads ready.

I guess I don’t understand this comparison. Eteri isn’t teaching quads either. And by all reports, the one that taught Trusova and Alena their harder jumps is now working with Plushy. So it’s not as if Eteri was ever the jump specialist.

 

[syzygy]

One has to wonder how come they get so much height and power coming out of these tiny bodies...

Likely good neuromuscular connectivity (I believe those are the right words). It gives good strength to weight ratios. A side effect is that their muscles look super small when they are, in reality, super strong.

 

[Bellanca]

I don't understand the reluctance to heal...now. there is not much at stake right now. And next year is the run up to the olympics. I would think people would want to be squared away before that.

Much of the concern regarding top teams or individual skaters taking time off is the fear, the risk of losing momentum, and ranking positions. Taking time off for an illness or an injury can have severe consequences ranging from moderate to serious setbacks, depending on where the skater(s) were positioned before the injury or illness sidelined them. The sport is continually moving forward, and unless the skater(s) can come back and pick up right where they left off, e.g., number 1 spot, etc., (we've had some of those, btw), they risk being passed by within their own country or internationally. That is why (imo) so many skaters try to skate through their injuries because they know any time off could be a significant setback. Sports are erratic to the point where if the current leader or top-ranked athlete is out, there is usually another top-tier athlete ready to step up and fill that spot.

 

[muffinplus]

I guess I don’t understand this comparison. Eteri isn’t teaching quads either. And by all reports, the one that taught Trusova and Alena their harder jumps is now working with Plushy. So it’s not as if Eteri was ever the jump specialist.

Dudakov was teaching quads...

 

[Skibean]

Dudakov was teaching quads...

Thank you. I didn’t realize this. For some reason I thought it was the other coach that jumped ship.