From Russia With Love [#38]: Fall/Winter 2020

lala

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Davydov is also teaching his girls quads. Berestovskaya has a quad, and he recently announced that Frolova is working on 4T and nearly got it.

Pluschenko, on the other hand, while able to jump quads himself in his skating career, was NOT able to teach any of his students quads until Eteri started doing it and then he got Trusova and Zhilina from her club.

Davydov is also a victim of Pluschenko's poaching, he lost two promising students to him. But he actually teaches his girls quads from scratch, none came to him with quads ready.


First: Eteri didn't work with the Zhilinas for a minute! 🤣 And you know this!

Second: How do you know Plushenko doesn't able to the teach jumps? According to his pupils he is able...

I believe you are afraid of the succes of school of Plushenko. Your Eteri will lose the hegemony.
 

lala

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Dudakov was teaching quads...
and we blame Eteri because of the wrong edged jumps...

But for me it's really ridiculous :lol:how many Eteri fans and Plushenko haters would like to believe Plushenko is not able to teach jumps. Why? Yes, not everybody became a good coach who was a great jumper but that is ridiculous how many haters cling to this opinion like a stubborn ass. Probably if Plushenko wouldn't be good Trusova wants to work with Rozanov later on..Right? Or is she stupid or what?
 
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hanca

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Pluschenko, on the other hand, while able to jump quads himself in his skating career, was NOT able to teach any of his students quads until Eteri started doing it and then he got Trusova and Zhilina from her club.
well, Trusova does have triple axel and quad loop which she didn’t have last season. At the moment she put in her program only the axel and is still working on the loop, but in the video clip it was landed clean. So I wouldn’t be so sure that Pluschenko can’t teach jumps.

Also, younger Zhilina landed her triple axel. She didn’t have that last year. I am not taking anything from Tutberidze’s group about the role her school played in those girls’ development, but both girls are definitely moving forward, rather than stagnating only with the skills they had before.
 

ChiquitaBanana

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Likely good neuromuscular connectivity (I believe those are the right words). It gives good strength to weight ratios. A side effect is that their muscles look super small when they are, in reality, super strong.
I work in the field so that’s why I am even more dubious. When you have one athlete with super vertical height and explosion, you applause that great genetic baggage. When you have like 7, you start to wonder.
 

hanca

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Trusova had a triple axel with Eteri didn't she? It just wasn't reliable. Quad loop is new though I think.
Not really. She didn’t really land it anywhere in competition. She tried, but always fell.
I guess it depends how you define having the jumps. Having it and being able to use it, or trying for two hours and posting the only successful attempt, those are two very different things. If you are saying that she had the triple axel and her coach prevented her to use it at the Europeans, then I am not surprised she left Tutberidze.
 

happycamper2554

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Not really. She didn’t really land it anywhere in competition. She tried, but always fell.
I guess it depends how you define having the jumps. Having it and being able to use it, or trying for two hours and posting the only successful attempt, those are two very different things. If you are saying that she had the triple axel and her coach prevented her to use it at the Europeans, then I am not surprised she left Tutberidze.

I didn't know Valieva landed it in competition .....
 

mjb52

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I agree, I wouldn't say she "had it" in terms of landing it in competition, but I don't know that you can say that Plush taught it to her either. Helped her stabilize it, sure. Not really that important, obviously his skaters are learning jumps with him in general, just being nit-picky.
 

hanca

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I didn't know Valieva landed it in competition .....
She didn’t, and Trusova didn’t land her quad loop either, yet. But I am just a bit sceptical about Trusova having 3A last year. That’s a bit like Guliakova posting her triple axel roughly five years ago and no one has ever seen it since. I think Trusova must have worked a lot on her 3A in comparison with the last year, so even though Tutberidze’s school would have a partial contribution towards it, I wouldn’t really attribute her learning 3A to Tutberidze. Pluschenko’s school must have put some work into it, it didn’t get there on its own.
 

happycamper2554

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She didn’t, and Trusova didn’t land her quad loop either, yet. But I am just a bit sceptical about Trusova having 3A last year. That’s a bit like Guliakova posting her triple axel roughly five years ago and no one has ever seen it since. I think Trusova must have worked a lot on her 3A in comparison with the last year, so even though Tutberidze’s school would have a partial contribution towards it, I wouldn’t really attribute her learning 3A to Tutberidze. Pluschenko’s school must have put some work into it, it didn’t get there on its own.

you said valieva has it this year but trusova didn't have it last year. so valieva doesn't have it by those standards
 

hanca

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you said valieva has it this year but trusova didn't have it last year. so valieva doesn't have it by those standards
Did you actually see a decent 3A landed by Trusova last year? I didn’t, that’s why I don’t count it. Common sense would suggest that she must have landed some otherwise what would be the point of putting it in the program, but her attempts last year reminded me chasing non existent unicorns.
 

happycamper2554

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Did you actually see a decent 3A landed by Trusova last year? I didn’t, that’s why I don’t count it. Common sense would suggest that she must have landed some otherwise what would be the point of putting it in the program, but her attempts last year reminded me chasing non existent unicorns.

i dont think the attempt valieva landed is any better then the videos from trusova last year.
 

hanca

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i dont think the attempt valieva landed is any better then the videos from trusova last year.
I don’t know. As I said, I haven’t seen it so for me it is a bit like Santa Claus - everyone talking about it but did it really exist?
 

Tinami Amori

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She didn’t, and Trusova didn’t land her quad loop either, yet. But I am just a bit sceptical about Trusova having 3A last year.
Trusova was landing it during practices (there were vids) but not in competition. It is because she started landing 3A's solidly at the practice rink, her parents gave her a poodle (there was a big hoopla about it "landing 3A = poodle".) Trusova also started to practice 4L with Eteri group... eventually she would have got it, regardless of which rink she is at.

Did you actually see a decent 3A landed by Trusova last year?
She was landing several in practice in 2019, at the home rink and in warm up.
Here is one vid from Khrystalniy @ start @ 0:58
 
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Tinami Amori

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First: Eteri didn't work with the Zhilinas for a minute! 🤣 And you know this!

Second: How do you know Plushenko doesn't able to the teach jumps? According to his pupils he is able...

I believe you are afraid of the succes of school of Plushenko. Your Eteri will lose the hegemony.
- Zhilina was in the younger group, which Eteri mentors several times per week. She does not work one-on-one with each skater in that group on daily basis but still participates in the training process several times per week.

- Pluschenko had several junior and senior ladies (before Trusova and Zhilina) and not only he did not teach them quads, he was not able to bring them to a podium at major competitions (except for GP medals for Tarakanova, during the first several months after she came to him from Eteri's group, and then he failed Tarakanova badly and insulted her publicly... ;)

- There is no success so far in the school of Pluschenko. He is working with several STOLEN from other coaches skaters - Tutberidze, Davydov, CSKA Moscow, SCA St. Pete club. Two of these skaters (Trusova and Zhilina) came with quads from Tutberidze's group.

He has no other skaters with quads. And he has NO skaters whom he taught quads. Plus, it is not him who teaches jumps, it is Volkov (who is in his club but independant) and now Rozanov. Pluschenko just runs his mouth for all of them.... :)
 

Tinami Amori

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Zhulin informs on Sinitsina's condition.

German doctors have confirmed the initial diagnosis for the injury of the European champion Victoria Sinitsina, performing in ice dancing with Nikita Katsalapov - the skater has an inflammation of the knee tendon. Needs rest and proper treatment. As soon as the pain goes away, we will start training, we will prepare for the Grand Prix stage in Moscow, said Zhulin.
 

Bigbird

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Zhulin informs on Sinitsina's condition.

German doctors have confirmed the initial diagnosis for the injury of the European champion Victoria Sinitsina, performing in ice dancing with Nikita Katsalapov - the skater has an inflammation of the knee tendon. Needs rest and proper treatment. As soon as the pain goes away, we will start training, we will prepare for the Grand Prix stage in Moscow, said Zhulin.
So it's not really that serious then?
Really wished the FED was being more flexible. Will there even be European's and world's this season?
 

hanca

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- Pluschenko had several junior and senior ladies (before Trusova and Zhilina) and not only he did not teach them quads, he was not able to bring them to a podium at major competitions (except for GP medals for Tarakanova, during the first several months after she came to him from Eteri's group, and then he failed Tarakanova badly and insulted her publicly... ;)

- There is no success so far in the school of Pluschenko. He is working with several STOLEN from other coaches skaters - Tutberidze, Davydov, CSKA Moscow, SCA St. Pete club. Two of these skaters (Trusova and Zhilina) came with quads from Tutberidze's group.

I think you contradict yourself a bit. Pluschenko has been coaching only for a few years, so it would be impossible to have a junior age skater whom he had from a very young age. He has his group of very young skaters, and they do pretty well. His girl actually beat Tutberidze’s girl at younger novice nationals (younger age nationals, younger age category). So it is not true that his students don’t win. Of course, younger novice is not a category that is that important; things can easily change by the time the kids get to senior age. But then why are you complaining that he has skaters that came from other groups?

Regarding the skaters he had in the past and who came from a different groups, I agree that he didn’t handle it very well. Let’s hope he has managed to learn something from having Sakhanovich and Tarakanova. After all, Tutberidze also didn’t handle well her first skaters. The way she treated Shelepen and Lipnitskaya... anyway, he did pretty well with Sakhanovich and managed to get the results in quite short time. How she skated just before she got to him, there was a huge progress at that GP she attended. Pity she got injured. Tarakanova’s results were also very similar as she did with Tutberidze. I liked her packaging with Tutberidze more, but her competitive results were very comparable.

About your constant allegations that he is stealing skaters - well, do you think you can be stolen? When I used to skate, I knew pretty well what I wanted. Who I wanted to coach me. When I was happy with my skating/coaching situation, there was no way anyone would be able to persuade me to swap. When skaters wants to change, there is always a reason. They may not be keen to share the reason publicly, but there is usually something that is not working in their current situation. People generally don’t like change, and especially not when they are happy; when they are happy, they want things to continue the same so that they can continue to be happy. So about Trusova and Kostornaya’s change, you may have to accept that they just were not happy in Tutberidze’s group. No matter how many ‘happy looking photos’ you posted, day-to-day situation was different than a few seconds of smiling for the pictures.
 

Tinami Amori

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well, Trusova does have triple axel and quad loop which she didn’t have last season. At the moment she put in her program only the axel and is still working on the loop, but in the video clip it was landed clean. So I wouldn’t be so sure that Pluschenko can’t teach jumps.

Also, younger Zhilina landed her triple axel. She didn’t have that last year. I am not taking anything from Tutberidze’s group about the role her school played in those girls’ development, but both girls are definitely moving forward, rather than stagnating only with the skills they had before.
At present, Trusova is continuing to develop what she learned in Tutberideze's group. Pluschenko is yet to teach her something she has not been learning already, for example upgrade her spins, which she barely gets to L3.

Zhilina started to learn 3A with Rozanov, back at Khrystalniy. Pluschenko has nothing to do with it. Zhilina has been Rozanov's pet-project for a long time. Back at Khrystalniy few mothers took their girls out of the elite "younger group", complaining that Rozanov is neglecting their daughters, and even holding them back, all for the benefit of Zhilina. One mother was so upset that she posted this story all over social media (i translated this story few months ago).

Zhilina is not Eteri's and not Pluschenko's - she is Rozanov's skater, and they will stick together regardless of which rink it is. There is also Zhilina's mother who is her unofficial coach as well, and she works with her too.
 

hanca

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At present, Trusova is continuing to develop what she learned in Tutberideze's group. Pluschenko is yet to teach her something she has not been learning already, for example upgrade her spins, which she barely gets to L3.
Well, there are no more jumps if you count the 3A and quad Lutz as Tutberidze’s achievement. But then again, considering that Tutberidze admits into her group only kids with triples, she is also only building on what other coached the kids.

About Zhilina not being Pluschenko’s because she is Rozanov’s skater, according to this theory how can you prove that any of Tutberidze’s skater is actually Tutberidze’s skater? They may be also Rozanov’s if it was Rozanov who taught them the jumps. Or they might be Dudakov’s skaters. How can you prove that Tutberidze actually taught them anything, if you are disputing whether Pluschenko taught Zhilina anything?

It seems that for your argument it is very important where a skater started to learn a certain jump. Trusova started learning 3A and quad Loop in Tutberidze, Zhilina (or both Zhilina girls?) started learning their hard jumps at Tutberidze’s group.... But for the skaters’s competitive results, it is actually more important where the skaters learned the element well enough to be able to use it. I started learning a lot of elements that I never managed to get into such stage that I would be able to use in competitions. That means starting to learn is useless, if one doesn’t actually learn it enough to use it. I started learning Japanese, but unless I get it to certain stage, I won’t be able to communicate in Japanese. (And I am far, far from that stage).
 

Tinami Amori

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I think you contradict yourself a bit. Pluschenko has been coaching only for a few years, so it would be impossible to have a junior age skater whom he had from a very young age.
.....
About your constant allegations that he is stealing skaters - well, do you think you can be stolen? .....
- Pluschenko started his school in 2017. Since then he had "big names" such as Sotnikova, Konstantinova, Sakhanovich, Tarakanova, Ryabova (still with him) and they did not progress. He had/has several junior "going into seniors" ladies, and they are still "no names".

He has many novice age skaters, but he does not want to take time and effort to raise them to juniors and seniors. His wife Yana wants publicity and success here and now, so they started poaching other coaches ready-made skaters. It would be ok if the skaters came to him first on their own, but that is not the case - Pluschenko is the one who contacts them with proposal.

In USA there are rules against poaching (stealing) skaters. In Russia at present there are none. Pluschenko makes no secret that it is HE who sent proposals to the skaters to come to his rink. He sent such proposal to Alina twice. That's called poaching. In USA i believe the FS Federation would be involved and actions taken against such coach, who is poaching.
 

lala

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- Zhilina was in the younger group, which Eteri mentors several times per week. She does not work one-on-one with each skater in that group on daily basis but still participates in the training process several times per week.

- Pluschenko had several junior and senior ladies (before Trusova and Zhilina) and not only he did not teach them quads, he was not able to bring them to a podium at major competitions (except for GP medals for Tarakanova, during the first several months after she came to him from Eteri's group, and then he failed Tarakanova badly and insulted her publicly... ;)

- There is no success so far in the school of Pluschenko. He is working with several STOLEN from other coaches skaters - Tutberidze, Davydov, CSKA Moscow, SCA St. Pete club. Two of these skaters (Trusova and Zhilina) came with quads from Tutberidze's group.

He has no other skaters with quads. And he has NO skaters whom he taught quads. Plus, it is not him who teaches jumps, it is Volkov (who is in his club but independant) and now Rozanov. Pluschenko just runs his mouth for all of them.... :)
No. Eteri didn't work with them. Plus the mentor is not a coach. LOL! They worked with Rozanov and the base was given by their mother. Period.
Te other text is just blah-blah...blank wording.
 
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Tinami Amori

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Well, there are no more jumps if you count the 3A and quad Lutz as Tutberidze’s achievement. But then again, considering that Tutberidze admits into her group only kids with triples, she is also only building on what other coached the kids.

About Zhilina not being Pluschenko’s because she is Rozanov’s skater, according to this theory how can you prove that any of Tutberidze’s skater is actually Tutberidze’s skater? They may be also Rozanov’s if it was Rozanov who taught them the jumps. Or they might be Dudakov’s skaters. How can you prove that Tutberidze actually taught them anything, if you are disputing whether Pluschenko taught Zhilina anything?

It seems that for your argument it is very important where a skater started to learn a certain jump. Trusova started learning 3A and quad Loop in Tutberidze, Zhilina (or both Zhilina girls?) started learning their hard jumps at Tutberidze’s group.... But for the skaters’s competitive results, it is actually more important where the skaters learned the element well enough to be able to use it. I started learning a lot of elements that I never managed to get into such stage that I would be able to use in competitions. That means starting to learn is useless, if one doesn’t actually learn it enough to use it. I started learning Japanese, but unless I get it to certain stage, I won’t be able to communicate in Japanese. (And I am far, far from that stage).

Yes, Tutberidze takes in kids only with triples. They come to her, she selects only few for trial group, and then keeps even fewer. She does not send them messages "come to my rink i'll give you everything". She is not poaching, and she is not after anybody. It's the parents and skaters who are after her... :).

Very often the coaches in remote cities and towns across Russia tell their skaters and parents "you need to move to Moscow or St. Pete if you want to further your career", and many directly suggest to go to Tutberidze, like the case with Zagitova and Tzurskaya. Zagitova is still friends with her earlier coach, and that coach was teaching her sister. I don't know how many times this should be repeated, as it is mentioned often in the interviews.

It is a well known fact that Dudakov is the team's jumping coach, Eteri is not claiming the title. It is very easy to prove that Tutberidze is actually teaching them a lot, since there are many videos of practices at Khrystalny... :)

Trusova, since she started to learn quads, and 4L and 3A at Khrystalniy, would have continued to learn them, just as well as she is doing it now at Pluschenko's rink, there is still a "momentum" going on from all she had learned, and it would show at any rink. Lets see a year from now...
 

Tinami Amori

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No. Eteri didn't work with them. Plus the mentor is not a coach. LOL! They worked with Rozanov and the base was given by their mother. Period.
Te other text is just blah-blah...blank wording.
:) I don't feel like searching for photos where Tutberidze is interacting with Zhilina during "junior group" practice, but they are out there....

Zhilina was and is Rozanov's skater... not Eteri's, and not Plush's. If and when Rozanov leaves Pluschenko (and he will since his goal is to open his own school, that's no secret), Zhilina will most likely go with him. Rozanov is waiting for a chance to start his own club, and not work for someone.
 

Bigbird

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:) I don't feel like searching for photos where Tutberidze is interacting with Zhilina during "junior group" practice, but they are out there....

Zhilina was and is Rozanov's skater... not Eteri's, and not Plush's. If and when Rozanov leaves Pluschenko (and he will since his goal is to open his own school, that's no secret), Zhilina will most likely go with him. Rozanov is waiting for a chance to start his own club, and not work for someone.
Well maybe he's just waiting for his good buddy Katsalapov to retire so they can all join forces with Sotnikova, since we've begun writing a tela novela. She may need the help, right?
 

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