MarieM
Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
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Add Katsalapov to that list. Well all athletes from Sotchi.Any idea what's going to happen to Bukin and Stolbova? Do they need to prove that they are clean or are they on the banned list?
Add Katsalapov to that list. Well all athletes from Sotchi.Any idea what's going to happen to Bukin and Stolbova? Do they need to prove that they are clean or are they on the banned list?
We don’t know that for sure yet, as far as I understand. For example, Bobrova/Soloviev also competed in Sochi but were allowed to go to Korea in 2018Add Katsalapov to that list. Well all athletes from Sotchi.
This is just the first step in a process and what I would expect is that people close to young skaters are not letting them think at this point they are screwed forever and a day. Its very unlikely they won't be able to compete as happened in 2018.
If I were Ivan Bukin I might be nervous.
We don’t know that for sure yet, as far as I understand. For example, Bobrova/Soloviev also competed in Sochi but were allowed to go to Korea in 2018
How would you like to be the parent of an hysterical 15 or 16 year old who has never done anything wrong that somebody else just fecked with your life and career and did it when you were just a little kid?
Thanks!Russia submitted in advance an extended squad of 500 athletes as they didn't know which athletes they would ultimately be sending. In Ice dance 5 teams were submitted, S/K were one of those 5.
However according to the Russian press, Bukin, Stolbova and Katsalapov were not on that invitation list.
Shockingly, people get sentimental about their kids, and want the best for them.What sentimental nonsense. Do you think the international sporting community, in all sports, should turn a blind eye to flagrant abuses just because an individual fifteen year old might cry?
Tarakanova's already been posting on Instagram about how worried she is. I assume other skaters have as well -- I didn't have time to check. Hers just happened to pop up in my feed. (And yes, I know her chances of making Worlds or Olympics aren't good, but I assume she doesn't want to see them go from "not good" to "zero.")
I said worried, not hysterical.
1. Teenagers get hysterical about a lot of things. Any good parent will have developed coping strategies.How would you like to be the parent of an hysterical 15 or 16 year old who has never done anything wrong that somebody else just fecked with your life and career and did it when you were just a little kid?
Like I tell my students - "If you're going to do the wrong thing, do it the right way."The worst part is, they are so dumb, they couldn't even cheat properly without being caught. Unbelievable idiots.
Maybe the Russian officials should have thought of that before they engaged in such blatant bad behavior.How would you like to be the parent of an hysterical 15 or 16 year old who has never done anything wrong that somebody else just fecked with your life and career and did it when you were just a little kid?
Per the articles, the Russian labs are only part of the issue. Russia had a chance to clear things up by providing test data from their labs, but rather than hand over all the data apparently altered the contents so that the status of individual athletes cannot be accurately assessed. It is the lack of cooperation and intentional obstruction that landed them the latest ban.
The lab was entirely legitimate and operated properly! There was nothing wrong with the lab. Then the reports from the lab were falsified. The lab found athlete A doped. Someone in Russian government got the list and changed it to athlete A didn't dope! WADA got the real results from the lab from a leaker! A whistleblower! So WADA already had the list of failed test. WADA wanted to see if Russia would hand it over officially. They didn’t. They faked the list even knowing WADA had the real one. Then try to say rodchenkov gave them the fake list. The fake list was first. The whistleblower was fake. Or that Rodchenkov doctored the list not Russia. They haven’t agreed on what happened yetAccording to NYT article:
As part of the resolution of that case, Russia agreed to provide a set of testing results to doping regulators from its Moscow laboratory. It is that database, which Russia was found to have manipulated, that is at the heart of a crisis that threatens its sporting future.
So @rfisher question still stands for me. I don't understand why didn't they used other labs, meaning none in Russia? It may not be the only issue but it is an important issue for which I haven't seen an answer.
The preceding paragraph indicates that they are referring to the results from Sochi:According to NYT article:
As part of the resolution of that case, Russia agreed to provide a set of testing results to doping regulators from its Moscow laboratory. It is that database, which Russia was found to have manipulated, that is at the heart of a crisis that threatens its sporting future.
So @rfisher question still stands for me. I don't understand why didn't they used other labs, meaning none in Russia? It may not be the only issue but it is an important issue for which I haven't seen an answer.
What has angered many is Russia’s mendacity in the face of efforts to rehabilitate the country after whistle-blower evidence helped unravel a meticulously planned — and ultimately successful — scheme in which Russian antidoping experts and members of the country’s intelligence service surreptitiously replaced urine samples tainted by performance-enhancing drugs with clean urine at the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia.
"As part of the resolution of that case....."
Again, it's the cover up that was the tipping point.
The lab was entirely legitimate and operated properly! There was nothing wrong with the lab. Then the reports from the lab were falsified. The lab found athlete A doped. Someone in Russian government got the list and changed it to athlete A didn't dope! WADA got the real results from the lab from a leaker! A whistleblower! So WADA already had the list of failed test. WADA wanted to see if Russia would hand it over officially. They didn’t. They faked the list even knowing WADA had the real one. Then try to say rodchenkov gave them the fake list. The fake list was first. The whistleblower was fake. Or that Rodchenkov doctored the list not Russia. They haven’t agreed on what happened yet
I am going to highlight your segment of the post, because it makes the most reason as to what's going on.ETA: also, I don't even understand WHY they did it. In the worst case, some more sportsmen would have had banned. Big deal, given it was already 5 years ago, and those athletes probably mostly retired anyway. Although now the entire team is compromised.
The worst part is, they are so dumb, they couldn't even cheat properly without being caught. Unbelievable idiots.
How does that work then? There are quotas of skaters per country, but if the skaters don’t skate for the country, are there any limits on their numbers? Otherwise Russia could send all 18 ladies from Russian nationals (even if they don’t skate for Russia).So if I understand correctly, Russian athletes will still be able to compete at major events, but not under the Russian flag?
So @rfisher question still stands for me. I don't understand why didn't they used other labs, meaning none in Russia? It may not be the only issue but it is an important issue for which I haven't seen an answer.
Look...... just because there is a stumble, it is no reason to give up on the sport you like.. if you do this with a hobby, just think how such attitude will affect important things in life. So there is a problem..... it will be solved eventually.For me, my issue is that the way WADA has handled this with no explanation to individual athletes of why they specifically are not allowed to participate and the fact that some want a blanket ban on all athletes regardless of whether they are accused of doping in any way makes it hard for me to trust that this is being handled in a fair and impartial way that is respectful of the individual human beings who are impacted by these decisions who - like all of us - deserve to be judged as individuals for their own actions, not collectively as responsible for the actions of others. I am going to take a break from this board from the rest of the season because otherwise there is no way I eventually won't post something I'll later regret. I hope you guys enjoy euros/4ccs/Worlds.
It is a question of logistics. How do you get the samples from Russia to the European testing sites within the required 24 hour window?
Do we actually know for a fact that there was no explanation for individual athletes? I know that Bukin, for example, said there weren't but I also doubt they would have disclosed it if they were given a reason and I assume that Wada can't comment about issues of individuals as to not violate their privacy so they can't really refute those claims.For me, my issue is that the way WADA has handled this with no explanation to individual athletes of why they specifically are not allowed to participate and the fact that some want a blanket ban on all athletes regardless of whether they are accused of doping in any way makes it hard for me to trust that this is being handled in a fair and impartial way that is respectful of the individual human beings who are impacted by these decisions who - like all of us - deserve to be judged as individuals for their own actions, not collectively as responsible for the actions of others. I am going to take a break from this board from the rest of the season because otherwise there is no way I eventually won't post something I'll later regret. I hope you guys enjoy euros/4ccs/Worlds.
You hire this European group, to set up testing site in Russia, strictly with foreign employees and the site under their control with WADA's approval, and pay them whatever you have to.
Do we actually know for a fact that there was no explanation for individual athletes? I know that Bukin, for example, said there weren't but I also doubt they would have disclosed it if they were given a reason and I assume that Wada can't comment about issues of individuals as to not violate their privacy so they can't really refute those claims.
There is Minsk, Baku, Kishenev, Tbilisi, Yerevan, Helsinki... not further away than the rest of 2/3 of Russia..I'm not sure it's that simple, as the European group would need a secure testing site in Russia, and you can bet WADA would say that any site set up on Russian soil would be suspect.