Russia banned from hosting/competing at major international events for 4 years

[mjb52]

Are there people on this board that you seriously think don't know what it means? Come on.

 

[skatingguy]

Of course it does. Bukin's situation has been used as an example of how the process in 2018 was unfair and you are trying to hint at some nefarious missed test as justification for it, presumably to back up your previous statements about Russia.

I don't believe there was anything nefarious about it, and as you said, missing a test is something that can happen - just bad luck in some cases I'm sure.

While it is true that even if there actually was a missed test, it wouldn't really be sufficient justification for keeping him off the team anyway, given that missed tests happen, it is nonetheless quite insidious on your part to try to plant this idea in people's minds without offering any substantiation for how you would be in a position to know about it.

Normally a missed test, or two would not be a reason to keep someone out of the Olympics, but the Russian team was being held to a higher standard in 2018.

As I said earlier, at least one person and maybe people on this board have been the cause of extremely dubious information spreading on social media before. I think with that in mind, it would be better to be more conscientious.

I've tried to be as clear as I can about the information I have.

Are there people on this board that you seriously think don't know what it means? Come on.

I'm sure there are lots of people on this board who haven't read all the doping requirements, and I don't it hurts to be clear what the normal procedures & requirements are.

 

[mjb52]

You haven't been even remotely clear. Who are you? Why are you in a position to claim to have this information? Where does it come from? What is your profession? What is your relationship to the skating world? All you have done is repeat yourself without giving any explanation of what the source of your info is. Again, if you are not prepared to do that, that's certainly your prerogative, but in that light it is extremely inappropriate and manipulative to bring it up in a public thread.

 

[Vagabond]

How is it that you supposedly have an answer, but Bukin himself does not?

I don't think we have to take Bukin at his word that he doesn't know why he was banned. Equally, we don't have to take an anonymous poster on the Internet at his word either.

 

[allezfred]

What I find difficult to understand about Bukin’s case is if he missed tests how come he was able to compete at Euros weeks before PyeongChang and then weeks after at Worlds? If you commit a doping violation, you should be barred from competing at all.

 

[mjb52]

Well what does that tell you? To me, it makes it seem that his being barred from the Olympics had no actual foundation. It was just arbitrary.

 

[taz'smum]

What I find difficult to understand about Bukin’s case is if he missed tests how come he was able to compete at Euros weeks before PyeongChang and then weeks after at Worlds? If you commit a doping violation, you should be barred from competing at all.

Normally an athlete has to miss 3 doping tests to be barred from competing.
However for the 2018 Olympics only, Russian athletes were held to a higher standard, one missed test was sufficient for them to be barred.
It was understandable given the circumstances that invitations for Russian athletes were at the discretion of the Olympic committee and they wanted to doubly make sure that any Russians who competed were clean, but nevertheless it was discriminatory.

 

[taz'smum]

As I understand things, unlike 2018 when the ban was only for the Olympics, the current ban includes Worlds and the Olympics.
So correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if Bukin and Katsalopov are allowed to compete at worlds, then they should be good to go for the Olympics.

 

[skategal]

I don't think we have to take Bukin at his word that he doesn't know why he was banned. Equally, we don't have to take an anonymous poster on the Internet at his word either.

And if Bukin does know why he was banned, I don't blame him one bit for not sharing that information with the masses.

People are allowed to keep their personal business private.

 

[skatingguy]

As I understand things, unlike 2018 when the ban was only for the Olympics, the current ban includes Worlds and the Olympics.
So correct me if I'm wrong but I think that if Bukin and Katsalopov are allowed to compete at worlds, then they should be good to go for the Olympics.

We should also get more information based on what happens this summer with the Tokyo Olympics. I can't find anything at this point indicating that the Russian athletes need to go through the same process that they did with Pyeongchang other than qualifying for their sport. Presumably any process that the IOC puts in place for 2020 will apply next winter given the short time between the two events.

 

[Orm Irian]

However for the 2018 Olympics only, Russian athletes were held to a higher standard, one missed test was sufficient for them to be barred.
It was understandable given the circumstances that invitations for Russian athletes were at the discretion of the Olympic committee and they wanted to doubly make sure that any Russians who competed were clean, but nevertheless it was discriminatory.

As I understand it based on the information that was available at the time, all Russian athletes in all sports were barred from competing by the IOC in a blanket ban, but some athletes with records that met a given (and very high) standard then had that bar lifted when they were issued an invitation to attend and compete. So Bukin wasn't barred for one missed test, but under the same completely impersonal blanket ban as all his fellow Russian athletes. The fact that he wasn't then issued an invitation to attend just implies that in the circumstances pertaining at the time, one missed test was considered enough of a red flag by the IOC that they decided not to take a risk on him. Same result for him, but a slightly different perspective on their choice.

 

[taz'smum]

As I understand it based on the information that was available at the time, all Russian athletes in all sports were barred from competing by the IOC in a blanket ban, but some athletes with records that met a given (and very high) standard then had that bar lifted when they were issued an invitation to attend and compete. So Bukin wasn't barred for one missed test, but under the same completely impersonal blanket ban as all his fellow Russian athletes. The fact that he wasn't then issued an invitation to attend just implies that in the circumstances pertaining at the time, one missed test was considered enough of a red flag by the IOC that they decided not to take a risk on him. Same result for him, but a slightly different perspective on their choice.

Yes you are right, I made the wrong choice of words, Bukin and Katsalapov were not barred, they were just not invited.

 

[mjb52]

Sorry what? Nikita was injured and couldn't finish Russian Nationals for 2018, so why is he being brought up in connection with the 2018 Olympics? Honestly, this thread illustrates how problematic the process in 2018 really was. A lack of transparency, a lack of fairness, and as a result you end up with a festival of rumors and speculation. This conversation shouldn't even be possible. When athletes are barred from competition, it should be as a result of a standard that is clear and that is applied to every athlete from every country. There shouldn't be this muddle of questions and confusion afterward.

 

[taz'smum]

Sorry what? Nikita was injured and couldn't finish Russian Nationals for 2018, so why is he being brought up in connection with the 2018 Olympics? Honestly, this thread illustrates how problematic the process in 2018 really was. A lack of transparency, a lack of fairness, and as a result you end up with a festival of rumors and speculation.

In mid-December 2017, before Russian nationals had even happened, the IOC asked the Russian Olympic committee to submit the names of all the potential competitors for the Olympics. A list of 500 names were submitted. For ice dance that list included S/B, S/K, Z/G and Bobrova/Soloviev.

111 of them were immediately eliminated from the pool; this included the 43 competitors who had been sanctioned by the Oswald Commission. The remaining 389 were required to meet a number of pre-games conditions, such as a further round of tests and re-analysis of stored samples, and they would only be considered for invitation to the Games providing these requirements were met. The final number of neutral Russian competitors that were invited to compete was 169.
source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia

Neither Bukin and Katsalapov were in the reduced list of the 389 athletes.
It was when the Russian fed first received this list in mid January 2018 that the news broke about Bukin not being on the list.
Nina Mozer later confirmed in an interview that Nikita was not on that list either, she said he had not been invited.
A reference to this can be found here https://sport24.ru/news/figureskati...kiye-igry-resheniye-cas-po-rossii-podrobnosti
"Но Нина Мозер в одном из интервью рассказывала, что он бы все равно не смог поехать в Пхенчхан, потому что его не пригласили"

the final list of 169 athletes - https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2018/01/25/russia-pyeongchang-olympic-roster-athletes/

 

[mjb52]

That article seems sort of like click-bait. From what I've read, Russia will be determining the composition of its own team. And Nina Mozer, with all due respect, says a lot of odd stuff in interviews. One way or another, my larger point is that this is not the way a respectable process should work.

 

[Judy]

So are you not putting stock into any American medalists in general because of the wide-spread doping convictions here?

Or is it just that you categorize Russia to all equally be terrible people?

The govt is horrible. Some people working under the control of govt. The same with China govt. i am not willing to condemn citizens in general but I am not sure that atheletes have a choice either.

 

[taz'smum]

That article seems sort of like click-bait. From what I've read, Russia will be determining the composition of its own team. And Nina Mozer, with all due respect, says a lot of odd stuff in interviews. One way or another, my larger point is that this is not the way a respectable process should work.

Yes, the ROC will determine the team composition this time around.

Which is much better, as it was a horrible mess last time around.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Its a sense of humor, and BB makes me laugh. Im amazed how many have zero, and I do mean Zero sense of humor.

Indeed. It seems to be in short supply around here lately.

Tonight I shall watch Angela Nikodinov's 2002 short program with my martini.

-BB

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Indeed. It seems to be in short supply around here lately.

Tonight I shall watch Angela Nikodinov's 2002 short program with my martini.

-BB

YASSSSSSSSSSS!!

Angela Nikodinov - 2002 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Short Program

Los Angeles, California, USA - 2002 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Short Program - Angela Nikodinov placed 4th after this skate.

www.youtube.com

And Im going to throw back a whiskey!

 

[Erin]

YASSSSSSSSSSS!!

Angela Nikodinov - 2002 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Short Program

Los Angeles, California, USA - 2002 United States Figure Skating Championships, Ladies' Short Program - Angela Nikodinov placed 4th after this skate.

www.youtube.com

And Im going to throw back a whiskey!

I think I might join you guys, but I will opt for 2001 nationals short & long and a glass of wine.

 

[Vagabond]

Russian athletes at Tokio 2020 (2021) and Beijing 2022 will participate under name ROC (Russian Olympic Comitee)

Russian athletes implementation guidelines Tokyo 2020 and Beijing 2022

Russian athletes are set to participate at the Tokyo 2020 and Beijing 2022 Olympic and Paralympic Games under the name Russian Olympic Committee (ROC)...

www.insidethegames.biz

No russian flag, no russian anthem, they will have to submit a song (as an athem) that must be approved by the IOC

And so they have! It will be a fragment of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto #1.

ISU разрешит российским фигуристам использовать музыку Чайковского на чемпионате мира - ТАСС

Об этом ТАСС сообщил источник

tass.ru