Ashley Wagner reveals she was assaulted by John Coughlin

[misskarne]

On a side note, Ashley's account sounds oddly like the end of Sixteen Candles when the Geek and Prom Queen are in the car except not skipping to the morning after.

Why should that matter? Where do you think movie-makers get these ideas from?

 

[Japanfan]

1) Men shouldn't rape.
2) Boys should be taught not to rape.

Now that is established ...

This. Boys can learn that rape is wrong. Rape is not an act based on male biology (i.e. the male 'need' to procreate) - as it sometimes is made out to be.

'Boys will be boys' is not an acceptable excuse for rape. Boys learns social norms, values and practices, just as girls do.

Rape is about power, not biology.

 

[hanca]

Профессиональный подбор тренера по фигурному катанию

inskater.ru

If I understand correctly, he claims to be the winner of the 2002 Cup of Nice, although Wikipedia indicates that the winner was Konstantin Menshov.

ETA: According to his FSU profile, he was born in 1988, which would make him kind of young to be winning a Senior "B" in 2002.

Could there have been junior or novice section of the competition? Most B competitions at that time were not just seniors.

 

[bardtoob]

Why should that matter? Where do you think movie-makers get these ideas from?

It is a deeply engrained idea ... A terrible terrible idea.

'Boys will be boys' is not an acceptable excuse for rape. Boys learns social norms, values and practices, just as girls do.

As said.

 

[aftershocks]

... I think they made a big mistake that goes back for decades.

The mistakes are not just isolated to figure skating though. There is something within the depths of our culture which has involved women taking a secondary role, being viewed as sex objects, not having the same rights as men, being viewed suspiciously if they are competitive or aggressive or strong and smart. We have only to review what happened to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 campaign -- there are many reasons she did not win, some of those reasons have to do with misogyny, that is unstated, sometimes unconscious, and very ingrained in our culture. As a result, looking down on women and girls has always been condoned and allowed as a matter of course. It's the proverbial 'elephant in the room' of our cultural history, so how can it be escaped in classrooms, boardrooms, skating rinks, etc.

Yes, there is a great deal more the ISU and federations could have and should have done sooner. But the reality is they have been slow to act on any number of issues involving helping the sport to grow and adapt to changing times. Therefore, it should not be surprising how slow they have reacted to these delicate issues of relationship dynamics. Some things are blatantly obvious regarding the need to monitor and to set guidelines involving coaching relationships, but even in those situations, TPTB have been slow to react. I think it's much more problematic regarding relationships between young skaters who are often grouped together as a whole, even as some are becoming adults, and others are still in their teens or younger.

The other part of this is differing personalities, and the complexities of human relationships. What are the roles and responsibilities of parents and coaches in guiding two young skating partners, particularly when there are huge differences in their ages? Complicating all of this are the attitudes that are deeply ingrained in our culture regarding gender, with boys tending to be given precedence and importance over girls in every situation, including in the classroom and in the arena of sports and athletics.

 

[aftershocks]

... 'Boys will be boys' is not an acceptable excuse for rape.

Of course it's not acceptable. But our culture has condoned this erroneous thinking explicitly and implicitly for a very long time. Change needs to happen, but it never comes overnight with a magical snapping of the fingers. Let's not forget the battles women have had to wage over and over again for equal rights, for control of their bodies and for control over their very humanity. It's not women vs men either, because there are enlightened men who have helped wage these battles too. But strangely enough, the battles continue to have to be waged every generation. And in some cultures today, the odds for women are much worse than we experience in the west. It's about changing the dynamic within families too. None of this type of needed change ever happens overnight, and nothing will ever change if we can't or don't talk about it.

 

[BittyBug]

Reading many articles about what CEOs of organizations like this get paid. The CEO of US Soccer's org made over 800k a few years ago and probably makes more now, as an example.

US Soccer has $124M in revenue vs USFS with $20M. Not at all comparable. Plus it’s based in Chicago, which has a 29% higher cost of living than CO Springs. At any rate, this is way off topic. USFS is allegedly in professional hands and I would therefore expect better of them in a sensitive situation like this.

 

[Japanfan]

The mistakes are not just isolated to figure skating though. There is something within the depths of our culture which has involved women taking a secondary role, being viewed as sex objects, not having the same rights as men, being viewed suspiciously if they are competitive or aggressive or strong and smart. We have only to review what happened to Hillary Clinton in the 2016 campaign -- there are many reasons she did not win, some of those reasons have to do with misogyny, that is unstated, sometimes unconscious, and very ingrained in our culture. As a result, looking down on women and girls has always been condoned and allowed as a matter of course. It's the proverbial 'elephant in the room' of our cultural history, so how can it be escaped in classrooms, boardrooms, skating rinks, etc.

YES!

But so many people do not want to admit that Hillary has been made a villain simple because she was a smart and ambitious woman who dared to go where other women did not.

I became a serious Hillary fan after watched her 1995 speech on women's rights at a plenary in Beijing: 'It is time to say for once and for all that women's rights are human rights, and human rights are women's rights".

Like Hillary or hate her, one can't deny that she is a trailblazer who put about 17 million cracks in that highest and hardest of glass ceilings, as pointed out by Michelle Obama - who got a lot more respect than Hillary as a woman, but was not in Hillary's league as boat-rocker (which is why she got more respect)

I think that the current outburst of women on the American political scene is thanks to the inspiration of Hillary Clinton. And I hope that the empowerment that this outburst entails will work its way through all aspects of society, including FS. But I also understand that the gender culture of FS is deeply encoded and long practiced, and will take time to change.

Of course it's not acceptable. But our culture has condoned this erroneous thinking explicitly and implicitly for a very long time. Change needs to happen, but it never comes overnight with a magical snapping of the fingers. Let's not forget the battles women have had to wage over and over again for equal rights, for control of their bodies and for control over their very humanity. It's not women vs men either, because there are enlightened men who have helped wage these battles too. But strangely enough, the battles continue to have to be waged every generation. And in some cultures today, the odds for women are much worse than we experience in the west. It's about changing the dynamic within families too. None of this type of needed change ever happens overnight, and nothing will ever change if we can't or don't talk about it.

[/I]

Yes. And there really needs to be a dialogue about gender in FS. And coaches and athletes need to expand their views of what kinds of music women can skate to. The feminine ideal of FS is long overdue for a serious overhaul.

 

[aftershocks]

Here's my stupid comment: Assuming Coughlin hanged himself because he did not want to face the repercussions of his actions, I don't understand why he didn't leave a note to confess and apologize to his family, friends, and his friends whom he assaulted. I assume that he hanged himself because he expected that victims were going to come forward. Had he written a note to confess and apologize, perhaps the young ladies would have been spared the need to publicly step forward to identify themselves, and thus spared from subsequent bashing.

We do not know what John Coughlin was thinking. Speculation is just that. Perhaps he was distraught and confused. Surely, he was depressed facing the loss of income and the spectre of being held accountable for actions he may not have fully considered were a serious problem. We don't know whether he felt guilt or remorse, or whether he truly felt he'd never done anything wrong, especially since there doesn't appear to be anyone who had ever confronted him aggressively to get help and to work on changing his behavior. Intervention obviously needed to happen when he was a pre-teen and a teenager, or at the very least at the first sign of predatory sexual behavior.

I know there are a lot of factors involved, and skaters split up for many reasons, but looking back, it now seems something of a red flag when Coughlin split with Yankowskas for the purpose of partnering with Denney (whom he was either developing a relationship with, or began dating just before or after they partnered). Did no one try to talk him out of the split, or was it felt to be the right thing to do? I think many fans were confused about it, especially since Yankowskas and Coughlin were doing so well as a team and had the potential to go further after placing 6th in their Worlds debut. Perhaps the split was the culmination of Coughlin always getting his way because he was genial and well-liked. To be fair, the personal relationship with Denney was apparently mutual and with full knowledge of her family.

Another factor is Coughlin's grief and depression over his mother's death, which seemingly and understandably (based on his Twitter and Instagram), he'd never gotten over. No matter what Coughlin did that is reprehensible, inexcusable, harmful, and inappropriate, his life was valuable, and it's tragic he wasn't helped to see the error of his ways much earlier on. He might have had a chance to apologize, to rehabilitate, to repent, and perhaps then to be able to help others, especially since he had good character qualities that were in stark contrast to his abusive, detrimental behavior.

 

[judiz]

Here's my stupid comment: Assuming Coughlin hanged himself because he did not want to face the repercussions of his actions, I don't understand why he didn't leave a note to confess and apologize to his family, friends, and his friends whom he assaulted. I assume that he hanged himself because he expected that victims were going to come forward. Had he written a note to confess and apologize, perhaps the young ladies would have been spared the need to publicly step forward to identify themselves, and thus spared from subsequent bashing.

It is possible he left such a note expressing remorse for life choices without being specific. His family is not obligated to release the contents. Usually the police will take
the note and will only return it after an investigation is complete and only if the family requests it.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

I'm equal parts confounded and blasé about USFS's response to all of this, speaking as someone who works on a Comms team. Working experience or not, their Comms Director has built their entire career in sport NGOs and college athletics, so it's not unreasonable to assume he has encountered a problematic athlete or coach in his time. (I also know that sometimes leadership can **** up a well-intentioned comms plan. Haha, sigh, UGHHHHH.)

But knowing that USFS, much like the sport itself, operates essentially in secret, I am not surprised with how they've arrived at this point. Instead, they chose to stand behind a single tweet that lacked any attribution to a human being, acknowledgement of what has happened, links to the SafeSport site (as opposed to a longer statement on USFS's own), and is missing any information about what they are doing to move forward.

As I see from so many people in this thread, it is not hard to be compassionate, empathetic human beings who are appalled by what happened to Ashley, and disgusted by the actions of Coughlin. It is not a stretch to condemn the tragedy and support victims of sexual assault and abuse. There are a million statements they could have released on the day Wagner's story broke that could have sufficed. But this is what they chose. What garbage.

It was very hard to sit at Philly Summer Champs yesterday, seeing all these kids compete, knowing their NGO has no real plan to keep them safe.

 

[Buzz]

Thanks to Ashley for having the courage to come forward. It breaks my heart to think of the pain she have been suffering all these years.

 

[platniumangel]

A high school classmate of mine started dating a 22-year old guy when she was 17. They got married eight years later, and they're still married. But it wasn't her first relationship, and she was more mature than a typical high schooler. I think that was a situation where she could give meaningful consent, but many in those circumstances couldn't.

Of course, Ashley did not consent at any point.

I just feel like if sports organization doesn’t make clear age guidelines, then there will always be a gray area and further legal trouble for the one over the age of 18, besides consent, etc. There should at least be recommendations/criteria as to what’s acceptable.

So a 16-year-old and a 17-year-old start dating. They have to break up once the 17-year-old turns 18?

I am in favor of the common sense “Romeo and Juliet” laws that cover relationships were the parties are not more than a couple of years apart in age but just happen to be in the opposite sides of 18.

The problem is, there are different laws in different states. USFS should have clear guidelines to follow. Let’s say a 15-year-old skater is dating her 19-year-old partner... and they travel and compete in several different states with varying laws.....I’ve seen this. I’m just saying there should be some guidelines for USFS athletes.

We are not talking about dating here. No evidence that JC ever made romantic overtures to Ashley. He assaulted her in her sleep which is illegal whether she’s 17 or 90.

I get that. Assault is assault. No excuses. I’m suggesting stream lined guidelines and education for all USFS members. Each state has different Romeo and Juliet laws, and most skaters compete throughout the United States. Meaning, if you have a 15-year-old and a 19-year-old dating or sexually active.... it could be illegal in the state that they travel to for competition. There should also be guidelines about drinking, etc. USFS athletes should clearly know the guidelines on how to act appropriately at all times, and should’ve educated on definitions of sexual harassment, assault, rape, etc.

I don’t see why USFS can’t aldo discourage dating that may be illegal in certain states, and underage drinking. I think that partying and drinking can often lead to these unfortunate situations, which are inexcusable, and way too prevalent particularly in party type situations. I understand someone can be assaulted when completely sober as well.... but we can’t be blind to the fact that the underage drinking/parties with children and adults often can lead to these horrible situations. We should be proactive in all areas. I hope USFS adopts some sort of guidelines for USFS members and/or at least members of team USA who travel to different camps/competitions representing the United States.

Also, I wonder what he did to make himself so worried about a situation he's not involved with.

Did he delete the post? I don’t see anything ...

 

[skipaway]

Here is a capture of his Insta story. It’s ****ing gross.

https://streamable.com/rynvn

Very gross. I still have trouble with men who think this way. Would he be supporting a man who sexually assaults his sister, girlfriend, wife or someone who means a great deal to him? Sad, but probably.
I’m proud of Ashley and all the other women who have worked through their fear, grief and shock to speak clearly and honestly about their assault.

 

[UGG]

Very gross. I still have trouble with men who think this way. Would he be supporting a man who sexually assaults his sister, girlfriend, wife or someone who means a great deal to him? Sad, but probably.
I’m proud of Ashley and all the other women who have worked through their fear, grief and shock to speak clearly and honestly about their assault.

Wow disgusting. Did he take it down? It’s not on Instagram

 

[Yehudi]

Wow disgusting. Did he take it down? It’s not on Instagram

Instagram stories are only up for 24 hours

 

[VGThuy]

Did he delete the post? I don’t see anything ...

Wow disgusting. Did he take it down? It’s not on Instagram

It was on his Instagram story, which only lasts 24 hours. In order to see it, you have a IG account and click on his profile picture. It probably expired already. You can view it here:

Here is a capture of his Insta story. It’s ****ing gross.

https://streamable.com/rynvn

 

[Firedancer]

Alexey Motorin, the founder of the InSkate app has well, I can’t say it. I ... (see his story).

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He is disgusting! And the fact that he is a coach is even worse. He should not be allowed to coach anyone.

 

[muffinplus]

He is disgusting! And the fact that he is a coach is even worse. He should not be allowed to coach anyone.

He is sick in the head.... judging by his responses

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[Desperado]

He is vile - I have an IG account but couldn’t figure out how to get to “stories”.

Now when you click on his picture, it’s now him and a blond child with the caption “Me and my victim”???? The f*ck.

 

[VGThuy]

Unfortunately, men (and women) like him are very common.

 

[angi]

He is proudly displaying a conversation he is having with someone else, where he is repeating his vile opinions. I can't get over the fact that this man coaches children while describing how in figure skating you start drinking, doing drugs and having sex at fourteen as if it's normal or an excuse for sexual assault.

 

[Vagabond]

Now when you click on his picture, it’s now him and a blond child with the caption “Me and my victim”???? The f*ck.

Have you notified Instagram of a possible Terms of Service violation?

 

[Desperado]

Have you notified Instagram of a possible Terms of Service violation?

I have not.

 

[Vagabond]

Someone should. Are there any volunteers?

(I don't have an account and won't join for that particular purpose.)

 

[angi]

Have you notified Instagram of a possible Terms of Service violation?

It's like beating a dead horse. Instagram/Facebook/Twitter are all notoriously useless when it comes to something like this (I still reported him though, not that I expect anything to happen).

 

[muffinplus]

skater_alexey
Dancing on bones of dead man for cheap hype!!! Hope that you never gonna sleep well after it

He posted this on Ashley's IG

 

[DimaToe]

skater_alexey
Dancing on bones of dead man for cheap hype!!! Hope that you never gonna sleep well after it

He posted this on Ashley's IG

If anybody is going for the “cheap hype” it’s him. I hope many are taking screenshots, he should not be coaching anybody anywhere after this gross behavior.

 

[mollymgr]

He should be reported to the ISU.

 

[Allisanna]

He should be reported to the ISU.

I agree.