Ashley Wagner reveals she was assaulted by John Coughlin

[PDilemma]

That sounds nice, but it's not totally comprehensive. Most sexual assault happens when the perpetrator is someone the victim knows and trusts. Usually they are in a situation that does not seem dangerous or risky. Often times, by the time they realize it has become risky, there's not a viable way out. But it is good to teach people what to look out for and to not be ashamed of reporting it, which is a huge problem.

Obviously, I cannot relate the entire curriculum here. But since the program emphasizes the violation of boundaries, it talks about appropriate boundaries with different people in your life. And that would include that people cannot violate your boundaries no matter who they are. Adults who work with kids are also educated about grooming and the program with kids addresses what grooming looks like. We talk about what kinds of interactions are acceptable with which people in your life. Getting homework help from a teacher in the classroom alone after school is acceptable. The teacher buying you ice cream and helping alone in the park is not okay and that teacher may not be someone you can trust. If I have you email your confirmation letter to me so I can edit it, that is okay. If I emailed you to ask you to meet me at my house alone so I can edit it over cookies, that is not okay. My husband and I are trusted adults for them by the end of two years of confirmation class, but we still speak of this in the first person to give examples of what it looks like when someone steps beyond the appropriate boundaries for the type of relationship you have with them. If your priest is passing out cookies at the confirmation class Christmas party and gives you one, that is okay. If your priest asks you to stay in the sacristy alone after you served at mass because he wants to give you Christmas cookies, that may not be okay. That's a good time to say, "I'm going to go get my mom and she'll wait with me". The priest may really be getting some cookies, but if they are for one child and to be served alone, that is grooming behavior. We don't tell 8 year olds it is grooming behavior, but we tell 8th graders and we tell them how to gracefully avoid or protect themselves. Most abuse by perpetrators the victim knows and trusts come after the victim has been groomed. Making kids more aware of what that stage looks like and that it is a boundary violation absolutely will help in those situations.

 

[Lanie]

My child goes to Catholic school, and I had to attend classes about sexual assault, abuse, consent, things like that, to be able to volunteer. He learns a lot about it in school as well. I think it would be really, really useful to put such a curriculum in public schools as well, and make it mandatory for homeschooling families too. It takes a village, after all, and some kids won't be getting good messaging at home about these issues.

 

[PDilemma]

Is that the entirety of the curriculum? I do hope there is equal time put into teaching children to understand and respect boundaries and not become abusers themselves. Too many boys grow up believing that verbal and physical aggression are just part of being a man and are a-okay as long as they don't go as far as "rape rape." I would not be shocked if John Coughlin thought he was a good guy because he stopped when Ashley said no.

Of course, it isn't. For students in Catholic schools, they spend much more time on it. For those in church education programs, they have lessons one month out of the program. There is no way that I can relate the entire curriculum here when there are several weeks per year for grades preK-12 for schools and 2-4 lessons a year from preK-12 for religious education. I have not even seen the entirety of it as I teach one level. In initial teacher training, we got an overview of the whole thing.

The biggest emphasis is on boundaries, keeping them, respecting them for ourselves and others. The RE program is called "Circle of Grace". The very definition of that is that we respect that invisible circle we all have, both our own and others. Early on, it is talked about as a physical thing only. Later, beginning more on the level I teach, we talk about other aspects--mental and emotional. Of course, it teaches them not to violate others. It would be utter nonsense to teach about boundaries and only say you have to protect your own and never mention that you can't violate someone else's. I realize the immense bias against all things Catholic in most of our culture these days. But, in general, things like this are not implemented without research and care. I'm pretty sure the version my diocese uses was in part developed with research help from Boys Town. And they absolutely deal with kids who have not only been abused but have acted out in abusive ways themselves. They know what they are doing in this area.

 

[Rock2]

Alexey Motorin

Met him a few times regarding his app before Pyeongchang.
I am/was working on a similar concept for business coaching that could eventually adapt for sports, so I was sharing insights to see if joining forces made sense.

This was around then Russia --> OAR and I asked him what he felt about it. His answer was fairly indignant and was all about how all countries do it so why is Russia being punished.

Needless to say, it's a bit of a flag to me when someone tries to minimize, justify or deflect rules and ethics violations. To me, regardless of what's going on around you, when you f-up, you f-up...and you take your lumps. If that's not in you, you'll always find another angle of a story to focus on while possibly also trying to position yourself as victim with some additional twist of logic.

No thanks.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

it teaches them not to violate others.

I'm glad to hear that.

 

[her grace]

My child goes to Catholic school, and I had to attend classes about sexual assault, abuse, consent, things like that, to be able to volunteer. .. I think it would be really, really useful to put such a curriculum in public schools as well

Public schools already have curriculum about abuse, consent, assault, safe adults, etc. I hardly think Catholic schools are leading the way in this area.

 

[Vagabond]

Is there a Russian coaches' association, like the PSA, that he could be reported to?

If there is, Nikolai Morozov must be a member.

 

[Scrufflet]

Good to hear from Pdilemma about what is specifically being taught. If I had a child in skating, I would grill the coach and team about the teaching environment and how much supervision my child would be getting. Also I would be testing to see what messages were being sent to the students, how aware coaches were about possible abuse and what kind of action they would take. I've heard of some instances where the parents were vigilant and terminated training situations they felt were negative and potentially abusive. I would like to hear from those who have kids in skating and have dealt with this.

 

[aftershocks]

He was still coaching, those victims could still be minors. I think they are minors

Ummm, AFAIK to this point, there has been no indication that this is true.

 

[jenniferlyon]

You know, not for nothing, here and elsewhere Ashley Wagner was often criticized for being outspoken and brash and not the "typical" ice princess. That and the comments that were made about Simone Biles and Aly Raisman when they came out as being abused by Nassar should drive home the point once and for all that there is no "typical" victim. Victims can come off as strong, confident and assertive. You can't tell how someone is by watching them for a few minutes on TV.

True, anyone can be victimized, especially in an environment where the perpetrator knows he can get away with anything. Some abusers even get off on the idea of targeting a more assertive female because they hate/resent/fear strong women. With other abusers, it's all about getting back at "the system" and they might think they're scoring extra points if they target someone who is more likely to speak out and then they get away with it, anyhow.

However, there are some abusers who will target the quiet, lonely kid in the corner who isn't likely to fight back or tell anyone. I used to know a family with two girls. The older one was loud, obnoxious, and hyper. She couldn't sit still or keep quiet for more than a few seconds. Her younger sister was an introvert who had been labelled her mother's "good child." (There were also two boys.) The kids' uncle molested the younger girl, but left the older one alone. The younger girl didn't tell anyone what happened to her until a decade later, when she was in her late teens and the uncle was accused of molesting a younger cousin (who told right away). Abusers also tend to target kids from troubled families. For example, an abuser who prefers young boys will take a "special interest" in an unhappy kid with a deadbeat dad and a single mom who is struggling to make ends meet and is grateful when the "nice" coach, priest, neighbor, etc. offers to take the boy to the ballgame and help him with his homework.

 

[aftershocks]

Or a teenaged or young adult abuser who happens to be in an environment where there exists 'a sea of female teenagers, some of them minors,' may develop a selfish, macho attitude toward getting his way sexually, since the fs culture and the larger culture have condoned and in many ways continue to foster looking down on females as sex objects and viewing young males as having a natural right to 'sow their wild oats,' no matter the harmful consequences.

Case in point:
A recent E entertainment episode blithely discussed a recent magazine article about wealthy men in high places no longer just seeking "a trophy wife," but now looking to have a highly accomplished and gorgeous wife by their side (the explicit implication was, 'not just a bimbo,' or the proverbial 'dumb blonde.') The casual discussion continued with knee-jerk trivial references to George and Amal Clooney and the Duke & Duchess of Sussex, as examples. The one female on the panel wasn't smiling, and she may have internally been feeling her stomach churning. Still, she only slightly demurred from the status quo misogyny on display. My first thought was: Nope, today's women may simply choose not to get married at all. Many accomplished women live their intimate lives and their professional lives completely on their own terms. Or, they may choose a female partner of equal financial standing, instead of looking for a rich husband, because they don't have to!

Meghan Markle was not looking for a prince, in any case. It all just fatefully happened. But they both had to make a strong commitment and work at nurturing their relationship. Before meeting Harry, Meghan was already a successful actor, entrepreneur and humanitarian. When it was suggested by a mutual friend that she go on a 'blind date' with Prince Harry, her first question was, "Well, is he nice?" According to Meghan, "If he wasn't nice, it didn't seem to make much sense." In the case of both George Clooney and Prince Harry, when they first met the ladies they would go on to win marry as their lifetime partners, they surely thought: "I need to impress her!" In fact Harry has admitted that upon first setting eyes on Meghan, he immediately told himself: "I've got to up my game." Both George and Harry clearly respect and look up to the highly accomplished women who agreed to marry them.

Hopefully, as a culture we can move on from subtle and not-so-subtle misogyny in our midst. In fact, many men need women, more than women need them!

 

[mpleaf4ever]

Public schools already have curriculum about abuse, consent, assault, safe adults, etc. I hardly think Catholic schools are leading the way in this area.

Our UU program (which deals quite a bit with consent/boundaries/etc.) has been around for so long, some of my co-teachers actually took the class when they were kids!

 

[Japanfan]

A recent E entertainment episode blithely discussed a recent magazine article about wealthy men in high places no longer just seeking "a trophy wife," but now looking to have a highly accomplished and gorgeous wife by their side.

In the case of both George Clooney and Prince Harry, when they first met the ladies they would go on to win as their lifetime partners, they surely thought: "I need to impress her!"

I know that trophy wives still exist, but hope that in general, men don't look at finding their lifetime partner as a 'win'. It brings to mind the traditional practice of man as active pursuer/woman as submissive and pursued.

Hopefully, as a culture we can move on from subtle and not-so-subtle misogyny in our midst. In fact, most men need women, more than women need them!

Agree about misgyny. But I don't know whether men need women more than women need them, especially given that many women no longer assume the traditional role of taking care of the home and family all on their own.

 

[aftershocks]

know that trophy wives still exist, but hope that in general, men don't look at finding their lifetime partner as a 'win'.

Right. The erroneous terminology and sports-related and gun-related analogies in our culture are very problematic. The idea is that these women (Amal and Meghan) are complete in their own right and met their husbands on equal footing. Both men (George and Harry) are secure enough in their manhood, and yet sensitive enough to appreciate and respect the women they married as equals. And in some respects, they regard their partners and women in general as amazing and special, e.g. when it comes to giving birth.

 

[Japanfan]

The idea is that these women (Amal and Meghan) are complete in their own right and met their husbands on equal footing. Both men (George and Harry) are secure enough in their manhood, and yet sensitive enough to appreciate and respect the women they married as equals. And in some respects, they regard their partners and women in general as amazing and special, e.g. when it comes to giving birth.

Both women and both men provide excellent role models.

And Meghan provides an interesting contract to Princess Diana, who was seen as a fairytale princess - doe-eyed, innocent, pink-chinked and without guile. And Diana herself revealed that this image of a lie when she came forward to share how miserable and ill she was for many years.

So things have changed considerably for the Royals since Diana's fairytale wedding. It's a sign that progress is being made with regard to how the female gender is constructed and beliefs, values and stereotypes regarding the female gender.

Of course there is a long way to go before women achieve equality and justice. But I'll take even one small sign a good thing.

 

[Lanie]

Public schools already have curriculum about abuse, consent, assault, safe adults, etc. I hardly think Catholic schools are leading the way in this area.

The public schools here, as far as I know, do not (my son's friends in public school don't talk about it). I assume the reason the Catholic schools are required to do this is, sadly, due to the abuse in the church. :/

 

[UGG]

Did skaters voluntarily wear the KS Chief hats at Nationals, or what exactly went down with that? I thought I remembered a skater saying she felt uncomfortable wearing the hat.

 

[Coco]

@PDilemma that sounds like a great curriculum.

Of course it can be added to, but it is a fabulous start.

 

[Wyliefan]

Did skaters voluntarily wear the KS Chief hats at Nationals, or what exactly went down with that? I thought I remembered a skater saying she felt uncomfortable wearing the hat.

Hard to say -- some did and some didn't, I imagine. I seem to remember Tarah Kayne just sort of holding it awkwardly.

 

[PDilemma]

Public schools already have curriculum about abuse, consent, assault, safe adults, etc. I hardly think Catholic schools are leading the way in this area.

The public schools here, as far as I know, do not (my son's friends in public school don't talk about it). I assume the reason the Catholic schools are required to do this is, sadly, due to the abuse in the church. :/

In my area, public schools do not do this kind of curricula at all. Consent is addressed in basic sex education. In high school only not in middle school curriculum or 4th/5th grade sessions on puberty. Kids are not taught about boundaries, grooming, safe adults, etc...in any formal way at all. I substitute in two districts. I have had this conversation with friends who teach in public school. A formal curriculum from K-12 that addresses these issues does not exist in their districts. There is zero training for the teachers I know in the three largest school districts in my state in regard to signs of abuse, grooming and reporting. They are told in their staff handbook that they must report abuse and who to report it to and that is that.

Every time an incident occurs in a school with a staff member sexually abusing a student, people speak in shock of all the great things that teacher did with students and 80% of the examples are behavior that someone should have seen are grooming. Everyone who works in settings with minors needs this kind of training and it is not happening on a wide scale yet.

And Lanie is exactly right. This was instituted in Catholic schools and churches in response to the abuse crisis in the church. It isn't perfect, because nothing is and abusers will abuse. But if we can prevent it as much as possible and make sure they are caught, that's something.

 

[puglover]

I am not sure about public schools where I live now but when my children were young there was a big educational push with puppet shows, etc. and a catchy little tune "My body's nobody's body but mine....." Lots on "touching" and how it makes you feel.

 

[Vagabond]

Teaching people to respect boundaries is great, but it may have little effect on those who have or develop psychological disorders.

 

[angi]

It's like beating a dead horse. Instagram/Facebook/Twitter are all notoriously useless when it comes to something like this (I still reported him though, not that I expect anything to happen).

In case anyone was wondering, Instagram found that he "doesn't go against their community guidelines". Makes you wonder what it actually takes to violate them.

 

[okokok777]

Did skaters voluntarily wear the KS Chief hats at Nationals, or what exactly went down with that? I thought I remembered a skater saying she felt uncomfortable wearing the hat.

I can confirm that some of the skaters did not want to wear the KC hats. The power dynamics and culture of skating play a huge role in that situation (i.e. a coach & sports agent handing out the hats, on camera, to skaters in the Kiss&Cry).

 

[VGThuy]

I really did suspect Dalilah pressured and strong-armed all of her skaters to wear those hats. Some probably gladly wore them while others were apprehensive.

 

[canbelto]

If I were a parent I'd pull my child out of Sappenfield's group ASAP. This is obviously a coach who does not put the welfare of her students as a first priority. That's maybe the only way she can be punished -- if she has no students she doesn't get paid.

 

[kwanfan1818]

In case anyone was wondering, Instagram found that he "doesn't go against their community guidelines". Makes you wonder what it actually takes to violate them.

If the policies are the same as Facebook, call someone a racist, and you'll find out after they report you .

I really did suspect Dalilah pressured and strong-armed all of her skaters to wear those hats. Some probably gladly wore them while others were apprehensive.

I thought Kayne actually talked about being uncomfortable at the time.

 

[CaliSteve]

TBH it's times like this where it becomes pretty obvious that USFS has no PR department - only a propaganda one. If their magazine/social media/website wasn't filled with flowery prose about how kind, talented, and perfect their skaters are I would think they had no one at all - just bots to post generic pictures and tweets.

I understand the purpose of canned statements (avoiding liability, fears of PR backlash, etc), but this is just outright tonedeaf. Tweeting a message that reads straight-up copy and pasted (sans words to name USFS) while not addressing major problems in reporting - like Sappenfield's social media posts and the baseball caps ETA: and at least one high profile skaters calling the accusers liars - appears and feels downright icky.

The USFSA thinks by not mentioning it and "laying low" that it will blow away. To a degree, they are right. Because at the end of the day, skating events will come up and we all turn our energy towards those events. We complain and make rants on social media but thats it. The USFSA needs to be held accountable and the only way to do that is by getting them in their pocket books. Need to start boycotting their events and their sponsors. At this point its about light a fire under their asses.

 

[CaliSteve]

If I were a parent I'd pull my child out of Sappenfield's group ASAP. This is obviously a coach who does not put the welfare of her students as a first priority. That's maybe the only way she can be punished -- if she has no students she doesn't get paid.

Couple of things. There are parents who side with JC and put the blame on others. Parents also are focused on their child's success as a figure skater over the safety and well being on their children. This is part of the skating culture and part of the problem.

 

[CaliSteve]

It's probably both. They are a cash-strapped non-profit, so they're not going to hire a top-of-the-line professional. And the Board of Directors (i.e. the volunteers who officially run the org) probably have a large say in what happens, or at least keep the Exec Director on a tight leash, who in turn keeps the staff on a tight leash.

When USFS thinks of PR, they think about publicizing the skaters and events and engaging their members and fans. For something like this, they need a highly experienced PR director who is skilled in crisis mgmt. Since they probably can't afford that option, they could hire an agency. But agencies charge $200 and up an hour, so USFS likely can't afford that either. And with the BoD likely holding the reins tightly, hiring a take-charge crisis communicator would likely not be effective.

I agree, but the USFSA needs to look at the big picture. They need to be proactive. Otherwise, they could go bankrupt like the USG.