ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[Japanfan]

Here's a quick take from a skater who was injured under similar circumstances.

As Megan Duhamel said:

Accidents happen. No need to blame anyone. This is sport.

 

[skateboy]

If anything, her agency has jumped to a conclusion too soon, by doing that they have sabotaged her chance and put Mariah in a bad light. No win situation for both girls.

I agree with you.

 

[kwanatic]

Mariah's people would need to prove "damage from defamation (slander/libel)", some significant impact, injury to the reputation) done by ATS and Lim. It would be hard to prove in this case (the damage, not the bad feelings), and not worth the time, and may not help Mariah's reputation either.

Of course lawsuits are very long and drawn out and it may not be worth it. However, I would demand a public apology from ATS and the news outlet that first reported it as well as a retraction/correction of the story.

Honestly it doesn't matter. The damage is done. People aren't going to change their mind and will continue to be horrible. Have you seen some of the comments? "She should be banned from the sport," "Imagine what would happen if she were around children," "This is shameful behavior and she should be fined," "Bell is a cheater and is just jealous," "She's trying to get rid of her competition the coward's way..."

It's really sad.

 

[JamieElena]

Of course lawsuits are very long and drawn out and it may not be worth it. However, I would demand a public apology from ATS and the news outlet that first reported it as well as a retraction/correction of the story.

Honestly it doesn't matter. The damage is done. People aren't going to change their mind and will continue to be horrible. Have you seen some of the comments? "She should be banned from the sport," "Imagine what would happen if she were around children," "This is shameful behavior and she should be fined," "Bell is a cheater and is just jealous," "She's trying to get rid of her competition the coward's way..."

It's really sad.

and that's the relatively mild comments...

 

[Tinami Amori]

Not just Mao but all Japanese ladies during that time got the same accusation from Miki to Akiko and Fumie. It seems to me that ATS is too eager over these kinds of accusations.

If I recall correctly, it happened during 4CC 2009. Yuna told Korean TV that she felt uneased during practice and that some (Japanese) skaters were in her way. She did not specify who were that but the Korean fans were mad and made videos of their practice.
I watched the videos and thought the accusations were too much and maybe just misunderstanding, but it was such a long time ago now the videos on Youtube are all gone. Also, one fan told me it was during Miki Ando's run through so she had the right way.
It is quite sad to say as I liked Yuna but I think ATS agency is not really good at handling this kind of situation. Now I am afraid Eunsoo's chance of going abroad and getting support from NA coaches are being limited to a minimum level. The girl is still a kid and has a bright future but her agency did her such a great harm.

Thank you, guys! got it. I did not remember with certainty who did what to whom. My recollection was "Koreans complained" and that there was "Asada present".

So we have a pattern, somewhat... Korean ladies skaters had been "wronged" by Japanese (4CC 2009), then Russians (Oly 2014), and now USA... top 3 figure skating federation... (and then there is short-tack, part of ISU...).. nice..

 

[Tinami Amori]

Honestly it doesn't matter. The damage is done. People aren't going to change their mind and will continue to be horrible. Have you seen some of the comments? "She should be banned from the sport," "Imagine what would happen if she were around children," "This is shameful behavior and she should be fined," "Bell is a cheater and is just jealous," "She's trying to get rid of her competition the coward's way..." It's really sad.

It is very sad, and i have seen the comments, not just in english, but with google-translate on korean sites and comment sections in the articles. You've listed relatively decent ones (publishable ones). There are also those that are suggesting violence against Bell, US skaters, and US in general.

But! this is nothing new "in the age of internet" and many precedents set in how famous politicians, artists, athletes, celebrities are treated (unfairly) when people or a specific group wants to take them down and "all is fair in love and war" and it becomes "war".

We see many ugly situations when "famous person A" connects with "famous person B" personally or professionally; then "famous person B" is found to have done "something wrong" back 20-30 even 50 years ago, which immediately (and often wrongly) tagged as some kind of "..ism". Next thing that happens is all mass media and social networks blast "person A" as "... ist", and ugly rumors spread, exaggerated, etc... just like the situation with Bell.

Nowdays, it is enough to say "that one is bad" and that one can never reverse the impact, even if innocent.

 

[Meoima]

It is very sad, and i have seen the comments, not just in english, but with google-translate on korean sites and comment sections in the articles. You've listed relatively decent ones (publishable ones). There are also those that are suggesting violence against Bell, US skaters, and US in general.

But! this is nothing new "in the age of internet" and many precedents set in how famous politicians, artists, athletes, celebrities are treated (unfairly) when people or a specific group wants to take them down and "all is fair in love and war" and it becomes "war".

We see many ugly situations when "famous person A" connects with "famous person B" personally or professionally; then "famous person B" is found to have done "something wrong" back 20-30 even 50 years ago, which immediately (and often wrongly) tagged as some kind of "..ism". Next thing that happens is all mass media and social networks blast "person A" as "... ist", and ugly rumors spread, exaggerated, etc... just like the situation with Bell.

Nowdays, it is enough to say "that one is bad" and that one can never reverse the impact, even if innocent.

Well, at least I hope we can say the people who have made those hateful comments on the internet will not spend money on skating events. As far as I remember, international skating competitions in South Korea have been fine. No crazy fans went there to attack Russian ladies or Japanese ladies. I guess American ladies would be fine if they go there to compete in the future. The fanatics are keyboard heroes mostly.

 

[MsZem]

Can someone please remind me the situation, that took place back in time when Mao Asada was actively competing and there was an issue during warm up or practice at a major event, where Korean ladies complained that Japanese ladies interfering with their practice and intimidating them (that's all i remember, if correct at all..).

This was the golden age of the intentional impeding fan videos on Youtube. Also accusations of (botched) plastic surgery, how everyone hates the evil skater in question, etc. I believe that all that remains of this trend is the parody video about Stephane Lambiel.

 

[Tinami Amori]

This was the golden age of the intentional impeding fan videos on Youtube. Also accusations of (botched) plastic surgery, how everyone hates the evil skater in question, etc. I believe that all that remains of this trend is the parody video about Stephane Lambiel.

it is SNL's fault.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYeEAx-0sGg

 

[b-man]

I go to US Nationals every year, always watch ladies practices and probably have seen hundreds of run throughs. The skaters not having their music played and without "right of way" universally continue practicing during the session, often oblivious to where the skater with the right of way is. If they happen to see the skater with the right of way In their vision, they will normally, but not always yield. It's common for skaters in a run through to alter trajectory to avoid rude skaters, not skaters hugging the boards who are easily avoided, but skaters moving at speed in the middle of the rink. I can't ever remember seeing a skater climb the boards to avoid a skater in a run through.

I don't know why you continue to argue this when Lim did clearly not stay out of Bell's way. She was in Bell's trajectory and that is not staying out of anyone's way.
Staying close to the boards is not the only thing she can do. She can also speed up and scramble out of the way or stop entirely, press herself against the boards or as someone suggested in another thread, hop onto the boards. That doesn't mean she's to blame for what happened, it simply means that she did not do everything she could have done to stay out of Mariah's way.

 

[Carolla5501]

I go to US Nationals every year, always watch ladies practices and probably have seen hundreds of run throughs. The skaters not having their music played and without "right of way" universally continue practicing during the session, often oblivious to where the skater with the right of way is. If they happen to see the skater with the right of way In their vision, they will normally, but not always yield. It's common for skaters in a run through to alter trajectory to avoid rude skaters, not skaters hugging the boards who are easily avoided, but skaters moving at speed in the middle of the rink. I can't ever remember seeing a skater climb the boards to avoid a skater in a run through.

You have missed some fun then. I have seen some great jumps onto the boards to get out of the way.

 

[RUKen]

I go to US Nationals every year, always watch ladies practices and probably have seen hundreds of run throughs. The skaters not having their music played and without "right of way" universally continue practicing during the session, often oblivious to where the skater with the right of way is. If they happen to see the skater with the right of way In their vision, they will normally, but not always yield. It's common for skaters in a run through to alter trajectory to avoid rude skaters, not skaters hugging the boards who are easily avoided, but skaters moving at speed in the middle of the rink. I can't ever remember seeing a skater climb the boards to avoid a skater in a run through.

I remember seeing Peter Tchernychev climb the boards at a practice session to avoid two ice dancers who had previously sued him for a collision at an earlier competition. I think he was being sarcastic. [Edited to add: The article linked by kosjenka below states that Albena Denkova did not actually sue PT after her injury; she had merely inquired whether US Figure Skating's insurer would reimburse her for her expenses (they would not). It was at the 2003 World Championships, during a practice session in the alternate rink, that PT jumped onto the boards like a hockey referee when Denkova & Staviyski came near him as he and Naomi Lang were speaking with their coach. I do not recall Naomi moving much when this happened, so I think that his action was in response to the earlier situation rather than to any danger from the oncoming ice dancers. It is possible that his sarcasm, as I perceived it, was directed towards fans who exaggerated the rivalries between teams, rather than towards Denkova & Staviyski themselves.]

Skaters running through their programs expect others on the ice to yield. They may alter their path if another skater is right in front of them to avoid a major collision, but will not do so whenever their route takes them near any other skater. No one would be able to finish a run-through otherwise. A skater who is near the boards is not expected to climb on them to avoid a collision, but they are expected to move quickly to another spot along the boards to avoid the skater doing the program. They only have to move a few yards (meters) in either direction to avoid the spot where the program skater is going to come close to the boards. This happens all the time in practice sessions, and less often, minor collisions happen. There's nothing new here.

 

[kosjenka]

I remember seeing Peter Tchernychev climb the boards at a practice session to avoid two ice dancers who had previously sued him for a collision at an earlier competition. I think he was being sarcastic
.

Right.

 

[euterpe]

I've been to many Nationals too, and have seen rude skaters continue to practice their programs wherever they please while the skater whose music is playing is trying to run through the program. I can remember one skater in particular "buzzing" the skater with the right of way over and over again.

 

[CaliSteve]

I've been to many Nationals too, and have seen rude skaters continue to practice their programs wherever they please while the skater whose music is playing is trying to run through the program. I can remember one skater in particular "buzzing" the skater with the right of way over and over again.

Were they a "well known" skater?

 

[Tavi]

I go to US Nationals every year, always watch ladies practices and probably have seen hundreds of run throughs. The skaters not having their music played and without "right of way" universally continue practicing during the session, often oblivious to where the skater with the right of way is. If they happen to see the skater with the right of way In their vision, they will normally, but not always yield. It's common for skaters in a run through to alter trajectory to avoid rude skaters, not skaters hugging the boards who are easily avoided, but skaters moving at speed in the middle of the rink. I can't ever remember seeing a skater climb the boards to avoid a skater in a run through.

I don’t know if you’ve ever skated, but it’s a very basic rule in US rinks that in freestyle sessions from the lowest level sessions to the most elite, the skater who is running his or her program has the right of way. After that, it’s skaters in lessons. The fact that you’ve frequently seen elite skaters at Nats alter their trajectory to accommodate others or conversely refuse to yield ground doesn’t mean the rule doesn’t exist or justify not following it.

I will say that most elite skaters generally have a much more accurate sense of where they are in relation to others than I do, for example, so what appears to you to be problematic may not seem that way at all to them. I am a pretty low level skater but my lessons are sometimes on sessions with national level skaters. It can be really intimidating and my coach constantly has to remind me that they’re watching out and that they know where I am, even when I think they’re going to mow me down.

I think it’s also possible that some of the particular skaters you saw may have more or less accommodating personalities, and that in some cases what you see may reflect a bit of a power struggle (ie, a higher status skater refusing to yield to a lower status skater).

The main thing here is that it’s pretty clear from Raf’s interview that skaters at his rink do follow this rule.

 

[euterpe]

Were they a "well known" skater?

Both skaters were elite.

 

[BaileyCatts]

hmmmm .........

 

[Aussie Willy]

This was the golden age of the intentional impeding fan videos on Youtube. Also accusations of (botched) plastic surgery, how everyone hates the evil skater in question, etc. I believe that all that remains of this trend is the parody video about Stephane Lambiel.

That is almost shades of ESTA. Particularly the uppercase letters.

Damn whatever happened to ESTA? She hasn't been around for ages.

 

[Vagabond]

That is almost shades of ESTA. Particularly the uppercase letters.

Damn whatever happened to ESTA? She hasn't been around for ages.

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...f-russian-oligarchs.64559/page-2#post-2155043

WE SMOKE AND DRINK.
xoxoxoxoxo

It caught up with her. That and reality.

Reality

 

[UGG]

Both skaters were elite.

I’m gling to guess...Kwan and Cohen?

 

[euterpe]

Nope---far more recent.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Nope---far more recent.

...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju-lptJweTc ..... Ashley Wagner and.. (insert a name)...

 

[Yazmeen]

Let a non-elite skater explain if you don’t mind. After an aborted 2-year fight trying to skate on ice dance boots and blades and some health issues, I’m back on new freestyle skates and blades and essentially starting over at age 61. I usually share early morning ice with one other adult skater working on MITF and sometimes some kids in lessons or rehearsing their programs. Skater with music on has the right of way. If that isn’t happening, it’s the one having the lesson. And if it’s just us 2 adults, I consider her as having the right of way when she is practicing her MITF patterns while I’m noodling with basic edges and lower level moves. That’s simply common courtesy because she’s moving faster and is in a pattern and I’m not. And as the higher level skater, she always watches out for me.

This isn’t that difficult. It was Eun-Soo’s duty (for lack of a better term) to stay out of the way of the skater whose music was on and who was practicing their program. Period. End of argument.

 

[MsZem]

Let a non-elite skater explain if you don’t mind. After an aborted 2-year fight trying to skate on ice dance boots and blades and some health issues, I’m back on new freestyle skates and blades and essentially starting over at age 61. I usually share early morning ice with one other adult skater working on MITF and sometimes some kids in lessons or rehearsing their programs. Skater with music on has the right of way. If that isn’t happening, it’s the one having the lesson. And if it’s just us 2 adults, I consider her as having the right of way when she is practicing her MITF patterns while I’m noodling with basic edges and lower level moves. That’s simply common courtesy because she’s moving faster and is in a pattern and I’m not. And as the higher level skater, she always watches out for me.

OT, it's wonderful that you're getting back to skating and I hope soon you'll be the one with right of way

 

[skateboy]

Has ATS given any further statement about Mariah's alleged "bullying" of Eunsoo? I haven't seen anything--nor do I believe the accusation--but that is more than a mild allegation to throw at someone without providing proof or, at the very least, a further statement.

Eunsoo is not to blame for the actions of ATS. As she is under their representation, Eunsoo is undoubtedly not free to speak on her own behalf. Shame on ATS.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This isn’t that difficult. It was Eun-Soo’s duty (for lack of a better term) to stay out of the way of the skater whose music was on and who was practicing their program. Period. End of argument.

I agree. Mariah didnt go somewhere out of her way, or break from her routine to go and sideswipe Lim. Lim just happened to be there (not watching out) where Mariah was exactly in that point of her routine.

It happens.

 

[misskarne]

I remember seeing Max squash himself like a frog into the boards to get out of Adam's way when the latter's music was playing in Boston practice. It was quite an amusing position.

It is not hard. As someone who skates on a mixed practice with every level from Aussie Skate to Junior - including a high-level dance couple - all it takes is a bit of spatial awareness. I can only imagine how easy it would be to stay out of others' way when there's only five other people on the ice.

 

[Yazmeen]

The rink I skate at also has ice for several synchro teams, and I never skate on Saturday because of them. It's not that they're rude or not paying attention, but some of the girls stay for freestyle ice after their morning synchro sessions, and when they try to practice together it can get hairy. That said, they are usually careful and other coaches/management have no problem with telling them to stop the group skating if they're getting in everyone else's way.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Bell was aggressive in her run-through. But it happens all the time. It was such a minor incident, and Mariah was vilified and accused of all sorts of things. Nice to see the US Skating standing behind her . So gutless. Has this happened to a Russian or a Canadian, the federations would have been all over it.