UPDATED: Jason Brown to Brian Orser (official)

[kwanette]

I didn't know that Karen Preston was coaching with Orser. She was a fantastic skater who really never caught a competitive break. I'm guessing she would be an excellent coach.

I know she was coaching with him when Adam went to Brian. I spoke with her in Cleveland in 2009/

 

[aftershocks]

I suspect Orser is so far past salivating over any particular skater. He seemed to take taking on Med in his stride, I highly doubt Jason Brown will cause a ripple. Also, as I posted above, I suspect Jason is moving to Lee Barkel and as such will be part of Brian’s group in the same way Gabby is. If you read Orser’s comment and compare it to what he said about Med, it doesn’t sound like he will be the primary.

Yep, I was making a lighthearted comment, not meant in a derogatory way. In any case, no matter who will be Jason's primary coach, Orser is the team leader. And it's Orser who accepted taking Jason on, for positive reasons surely. Orser was quoted as saying, “Jason will be a team effort. Me, Tracy (Wilson), Karen Preston and Lee Barkell.” Any good coach worth their salt would love to coach a topflight artistically gifted skater like Jason Brown. It seems to me that Orser is also thrilled to have the opportunity to help the very talented Evgenia Medvedeva and Jin Boyang. Far from just casually 'taking it all in stride,' I'm sure Orser has thought substantively about what he can do to help each new skater he is taking on, and he's also likely contemplating quite thoroughly with his team how to rise to the challenges these skaters individually present at their respective career stages.

Orser has previously mentioned not having expected to go into coaching, but the craft found him. And he has clearly been passionate about it and good at it from the start. Also with great support too over the years, as he has built his coaching staff.

 

[barbarafan]

My inner mom is hoping he can get the quad(s) he needs without injury.

Brian has a large inner mom as well. If he can't do quads due to a problem with technique he will break it all down first and then build it up slowly with the problem erased....Then lots of hard work to get the muscle memory and mind set so that you don't revert when you get nervous and stressed at competitions.

 

[Madhatter]

I'm not really sure that's such great great news as everybody seems to think? Looking at the roster, Jason will be rather far down the priority list. They'll focus on Medvedeva - they have something to prove after all, on Jin - China's hope for Beijing gold, on Cha - Korea's hope for a next FS star, on Hanyu - Japan's hope for 4A, on Gogolev - Canada's hope to return to the top...

 

[Tavi]

I'm not really sure that's such great great news as everybody seems to think? Looking at the roster, Jason will be rather far down the priority list. They'll focus on Medvedeva - they have something to prove after all, on Jin - China's hope for Beijing gold, on Cha - Korea's hope for a next FS star, on Hanyu - Japan's hope for 4A, on Gogolev - Canada's hope to return to the top...

And you know this because you’re a such a close confidante of Brian Orser’s and he’s already told you Jason is not a priority?

 

[aftershocks]

[Doug Haw on TSL] specifically mentioned something about Jason in regard to his technique on the quad. I can't recall Haw's exact words. I'll have to review the broadcast.

Actually Doug Haw spoke a lot about Adam Rippon and Nathan Chen during TSL's Olympics Technical broadcast, and not about Jason. But there was a TSL episode in which Jason's technique and difficulty on the quad was discussed...

 

[Madhatter]

And you know this because you’re a such a close confidante of Brian Orser’s and he’s already told you Jason is not a priority?

An educated guess.

 

[Scrufflet]

Wow! Great news! I'm thinking of the possibility of a lot of these skaters doing CSOI next year!

 

[Tavi]

An educated guess.

Or prejudice. Either way, it’s reflective of your own values, you know?

Jason isn’t dumb, and he’s not without resources. He wouldn’t have made the change unless it felt right to him, nor would Brian and Tracy taken him unless they saw something there. I think perhaps you’re missing that.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

I'm not really sure that's such great great news as everybody seems to think? Looking at the roster, Jason will be rather far down the priority list. They'll focus on Medvedeva - they have something to prove after all, on Jin - China's hope for Beijing gold, on Cha - Korea's hope for a next FS star, on Hanyu - Japan's hope for 4A, on Gogolev - Canada's hope to return to the top...

There is obviously a pecking order with every coach, and this will be different for him. Kori is tough but he was her special one, now he has to fight for his place on a team with skaters such as Med and Hanyu. Kind of a make it or break it situation mentally for a guy who sometimes seems to be too nice and goodhearted for his own competitive good.

Skaters often talk about how their training mates pushes them to be better and train harder, I hope this will be the case.

I will always cheer for him nevertheless, his personality is just the best, and very honest.

 

[el henry]

I'm not seeing gloom and doom about Jason being one of many, rather than the one and only.

He is an extrovert and likes being around people. I think he will learn, grow and thrive in an environment where he can learn from his peers and from a team of coaches. And frankly, his rinkmates may benefit and learn from him as well.

And although Jason is an intrinsically happy person, I think it is a mistake to equate "happy" with "not driven". Jason has a work ethic second to none and has been competing for most of his life. He's not some scared kid hanging onto the rink wall afraid to ask for guidance.

And that Brian was willing to work to make room for him ... wowza! Excited for the upcoming season

 

[aftershocks]

Kind of a make it or break it situation mentally for a guy who sometimes seems to be too nice and goodhearted for his own competitive good.

Actually Jason Brown knows how to have fun and he's passionate about skating, as well as being a very cool, easygoing and friendly guy. He's a genuinely loving person who is extremely kind, generous and grateful to his fans.

If you don't think that Jason also knows how to work hard, and how to compete tough, then you haven't actually followed his career very closely. JB knows how to slam dunk competitions. Just ask his competitors. Sure Jason has had some anomaly performances in his career. Who hasn't?

 

[Marco]

Have either Yuzuru or Javier officially retired? Looks to be a busy rink for Brian O.

I am glad Jason has the quadsters to look up to and Boyang has the stylists to look up to.

 

[bardtoob]

To be honest, this is a move that should have taken place in 2011.

If nothing else, Team Orser will probably be about drilling triple axels and quadruple toe loops until they are second nature.

So he'll have content that was competitive in 2011?

Brian would not take Jason on if he didn’t think he could get quads.

I think Brian would take him. Brian is nice and Jason is a good skater and probably a joy to work with.

 

[Dobre]

At the moment, Jason is injured and skating with no jumps at all. Let's give him some time. Best wishes to him for a healthy recovery and a positive experience on this grand new adventure.

 

[Tavi]

So he'll have content that was competitive in 2011?



I think Brian would take him. Brian is nice and Jason is a good skater and probably a joy to work with.

I don’t know Brian, but people who do have generally said otherwise. In any case, only time will tell what TCC will make of Jason and vice versa.

 

[kittyjake5]

Wow call me suprised! Well good for Jason. Wishing him success!

 

[whiteskates]

Have either Yuzuru or Javier officially retired? Looks to be a busy rink for Brian O.

I am glad Jason has the quadsters to look up to and Boyang has the stylists to look up to.

Fernandez is semi retired. He said in some interview that he may do Europeans next season but no GP and not Worlds.

 

[Jammers]

I hope that Jason is up to it. Orser and team believe in skaters reaching their potential. I bet he will be working multiple quads.

I'm not sure at this point if Jason will ever be able to do multiple quads. He's 23 and still has never landed one in competition.

 

[missing]

Is there any particular reason why the thread title includes a ? when a statement has been delivered?

 

[aftershocks]

^^ The thread title just hasn't been updated yet. The thread was started prior to the official confirmation.

 

[feraina]

This is really good news! As an avid Jason fan I’m very excited for him. I thought he was more likely to move to Arutunian, who can probably help him with jumps. But in toronto he will find more likeminded coaches and choreographers, with their balanced approach to the whole package and his access to top choreographers on a regular basis. Plus I think the presence of quadsters will really inspire and motivate him. I remember how inspired I always felt when I skated with people who were just a bit better than me. It really changes your mindset from, gosh that jump is so daunting, to, oh its no big deal, i can get it.

It does sound like Brian’s plate got a little too full and it took a good bit of convincing on Jason’s part, and persuasion on Tracy wilson’s part, to get Brian on board. It probably took so long for the move to be confirmed/announced because they were still working out the scheduling. Jadon spent time there in a SOI break to convince them he belonged there. I think he will have to do a bit of proving himself there. But maybe that’s not a bad thing, as long as he uses it as a motivator. I think he has the right kind of personality to make it work.

It’s interesting Orser mentioned Jason is a young adult and can take care of himself. That might have gone into the argument to take him on as well — since he’ll need a lot less logistic handholding than Boyang Jin, Medev, etc, who know little English and the North American way of life.

Much as I love Rohene’s choreography, I’m very curious what David Wilson will manage to put together for him. I’ve always liked David as a choreographer and person.

Go Jason! I’m so excited for you!

 

[Inessence]

I can't decide if Jason leaving Kori or the Kneirmans leaving Sappenfield is more shocking. I didn't think either would ever haother

Jason and Kori just seemed so committed to each other...

Yeah, she seemed like a second mom for him. Though, if he truly plateaued with Kori, the kindest thing she could do for him is encourage him to leave.

As another sign I’ve heard Orser doesn’t want the paperwork hassle of taking on American skaters. He must then have a really good feeling about helping to improve Jason’s technical ability.

 

[nimi]

Actually Doug Haw spoke a lot about Adam Rippon and Nathan Chen during TSL's Olympics Technical broadcast, and not about Jason. But there was a TSL episode in which Jason's technique and difficulty on the quad was discussed...

I don't remember which TSL episode it was but IIRC they talked about Kori teaching the Lussi technique, which works well for triples but not so well for quads where you have to start rotating earlier and reach a higher rotational speed. Or something along those lines.

I googled the Lussi technique for a better explanation so below is an excerpt from http://iceskatingresources.org/LussiSystematicJump&SpinTechniques.html

His concept of jumping was for a skater to prevent the occurrence of core body rotation prior to springing into the air. He directed skaters to take off and continue "forward" in a straight line trajectory for as long possible. The initiation of rotation of the core body was suspended or delayed until reaching the apex of the jump. At this time the body would perform a "reverse under" and instantly turn from forward to backward initiated by turning the head in the direction of rotation. This causes the core body, if in an upright balanced position, to pivot around the landing hip and leg (rotate/spin around the long axis of the body). The speed of the rotation achieved in the air would depend on the tightness of the arms and legs folding into the "reverse under" position.

A skater's ability to complete the rotation in the air would allow a momentarily "pause" in the air to occur before the touch down of the landing foot. The key is that in the last half rotation in the air, the skater opens up their body position to stop (cancel) the rotation to achieve a controlled landing. The goal is for the skater to maintain the speed matching the takeoff velocity while landing backward. Mr. Lussi wanted the skater to exit on a straight line (controlled edge) rather than on a deeply hooked landing edge with the free leg swinging around in an tightly curving arc causing the residual centrifugal force of the jump's rotation to pull the body off balance.

Mr. Lussi emphasized the position of the shoulders and arms in the air. He stressed extending the arms from the shoulders to cause the delay in initiating the rotation in the forward trajectory, then, at the reverse under, the forearms folded to lay horizontal to the ice, flat palm over flat palm in at waist level, the elbows out to the sides (higher than the hands.)

Mr. Lussi did not want skaters to skate on a deep curving entry into a jump. He wanted skaters to enter into jumps on as straight a line as possible when taking off for all jumps as a means "to counteract the tendency to pre-rotate." Similarly, on the landing. he wanted the jump's exit edge to be on as straight a line as possible to maintain speed on the landing to avoid a sideways/deep curving edge with the free leg swinging around in a large arc causing the body to drastically lose speed or even resulting in an unchoreographed stop.

And here's a site with intro videos where Kori explains why she's a fan of the Lussi technique: http://www.icecommand.com

 

[skateboy]

I don't remember which TSL episode it was but IIRC they talked about Kori teaching the Lussi technique, which works well for triples but not so well for quads where you have to start rotating earlier and reach a higher rotational speed. Or something along those lines.

I read John Curry's book, where he talks about working with Lussi, who totally revamped all of his jumps. Lussi put John in a tiny cage and made him work on his jumps with almost no speed, to gain more vertical entrances. Curry said that at one point he couldn't even do a single axel any longer, but the technique eventually worked. As for the "straight edge" takeoff and landings, many coaches use this (Frank Carroll is a big exponent of this, you can really see it in Michelle Kwan's technique) and I learned it myself as a (roller) skater. Skaters with this technique rarely have "wonky" landings.

It should work for quads as well, as long as there is sufficient height. Hanyu and Boyang Jin have little to no pre-rotation in their quads.

 

[bardtoob]

I read John Curry's book, where he talks about working with Lussi, who totally revamped all of his jumps. Lussi put John in a tiny cage and made him work on his jumps with almost no speed, to gain more vertical entrances. Curry said that at one point he couldn't even do a single axel any longer, but the technique eventually worked. As for the "straight edge" takeoff and landings, many coaches use this (Frank Carroll is a big exponent of this, you can really see it in Michelle Kwan's technique) and I learned it myself as a (roller) skater. Skaters with this technique rarely have "wonky" landings.

It should work for quads as well, as long as there is sufficient height. Hanyu and Boyang Jin have little to no pre-rotation in their quads.

Did Frank also say at 2018 Nationals that he feels Jason has a Gus Lussi Techique, which is great for triples but almost useless for quads?

ETA:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/the-skating-lesson.101653/page-22#post-5244704

Interesting if true that 'technical specialists' feel Jason's quad jumping difficulties are not the result of a "talent deficiency" but a "correctable technical deficiency involving timing and rhythm on his jump entrances." Dave says that Frank Carroll "feels Jason has a 'Gus Lussi technique' which is mainly helpful for triple jumps through the lutz, but not so helpful beyond the 3-lutz."

 

[Madhatter]

Or prejudice. Either way, it’s reflective of your own values, you know?

Jason isn’t dumb, and he’s not without resources. He wouldn’t have made the change unless it felt right to him, nor would Brian and Tracy taken him unless they saw something there. I think perhaps you’re missing that.

Oh, I do believe Brian and Tracy see something in Jason. He's a unique skater. They might even believe they might develop him - but I'm sceptical whether they actually can with how overcrowded it just got with higher-profile skaters. And, frankly, at this point, my "values" are just realism. I hope I will be proven wrong, however, Jason does deserve their full attention.

 

[nimi]

I read John Curry's book, where he talks about working with Lussi, who totally revamped all of his jumps. Lussi put John in a tiny cage and made him work on his jumps with almost no speed, to gain more vertical entrances. Curry said that at one point he couldn't even do a single axel any longer, but the technique eventually worked.

Maybe a bit off-topic but for those who are confused about this talk about "tiny cage", here's the relevant passage from the book (p. 98): "The following day, Curry was lead out across the town's vast Olympic rink to marked-off section of ice 'no larger than an average sitting room'. Expecting to stretch out and soar, the Briton was confined. Until he could perform flawless rotating jumps inside this 20 x 30ft 'box', nothing else would happen. Lengthy run-ups were forbidden. Momentum could be generated only within the designated patch."

As for the "straight edge" takeoff and landings, many coaches use this (Frank Carroll is a big exponent of this, you can really see it in Michelle Kwan's technique) and I learned it myself as a (roller) skater. Skaters with this technique rarely have "wonky" landings.

Yes, I think Doug Haw talked about this in the TSL episode @aftershocks mentioned. In his view, Shoma's landings tend to be wonky because his entrances are too curved. (Or something to that effect.)

 

[paskatefan]

What amazing news for Jason & Boyang!

 

[Jaana]

I did not see this coming at all, LOL... Anyway, I feel Brown should have made his move to some other coach years and years ago. It remains to be seen how this move works out for him. Orser has a great coaching team!!!