UPDATED: OMFG . . . Adam Rippon, Tonya Harding and Mirai Nagasu are on the DWTS' all-athlete cast

[WillyElliot]

That is just a setup for when she knocks someone down the big stairs.

LOL. Be nice, Nomi!!!

 

[DimaToe]

Wait, are you calling subs stupid? I learned in kink law to try not to yuck other people's yums.

Maybe I misworded things @VIETgrlTerifa but my original opinion still stands, About most U.S. centric posters here still can’t accept that Tonya will be on DWTS. and instead of just letting go and “boycotting” they still post here and will likely watch the show. I’m not against anyone feeling for any skater but at least keep it real and don’t try to pretend that said feelings are more of instead of

 

[Aerobicidal]

LOL. Be nice, Nomi!!!

Your post doesn't suck.

 

[Japanfan]

So it seems like Tonya H. is still the center of attention here while Adam Rippon is likely the center of attention when it comes to ice skating with the U.S. general public elsewhere. Come on FSU, I know that we’re bias AF, but bias and stupidity are two different things, the continuing focus on Tonya is just making all of the U.S. skating fans seem like more of the Submissive gays that wanna be tortured for pleasure, just keeping it real

That is so beyond offensive. . . .

 

[jlai]

Now I wonder how many will boycott the show vs. vote Tonya off the first week. We need...a poll!

 

[Frida80]

Back to DWTS, what is its normal rating? I don't feel like Rippon and Mirai are huge draws, what are the other non-skating celebrities here?

Dwts almost never puts on big stars. They focus on minor actors, has been celebrities, and athletes. Their easier to get. The show is very popular anyway.

 

[Japanfan]

Just to be clear, that was not real life and never happened, which goes into my point in the other thread about people taking what the movie portrays as fact. Also, jail time and the losing ability to work is NOT uncommon among professional fields. In my field, if somebody embezzled money or mismanaged trust accounts, they could go to jail AND be disbarred from practicing law for life. Even if Tonya ended up taking it to trial and went to jail, she would have still been banned for life.

But Tonya did receive a lifetime ban from the UFSA, did she not? Even though it didn't go down as presented in the movie?

So what if losing the ability to work in a certain profession is common to individuals who break the law in certain ways (or have been said to be complicit in an illegal act, as is the case with Tonya)?

All such individuals would have to reassess and redirect their lives, just as Tonya did. And I'm sure they experienced unhappiness and confusion in the process, regardless of their complicity in the event that ruined their careers.

 

[VGThuy]

But Tonya did receive a lifetime ban from the UFSA, did she not? Even though it didn't go down as presented in the movie?

So what if losing the ability to work in a certain profession is common to individuals who break the law in certain ways (or have been said to be complicit in an illegal act, as is the case with Tonya?).

All such individuals would have to reassess and redirect their lives, just as Tonya did. And I'm sure they experienced unhappiness and confusion in the process, regardless of their complicity in the event that ruined their careers.

I'm just saying she never begged to take the jail time as portrayed in the movie and was not blindsided in the way Margot Robbie's tearful version of Tonya was. She knew what she was accepting with the plea bargain. It was never a situation of taking the jail time or being banned from the sport. The latter was most likely happening any way so she chose the option to avoid possible jail time. It also wasn't a case of the other people involved having less of a punishment than she did as I'm sure those other people also had limited access to opportunities because of their name and being involved with such a public act. They were never in skating to be banned (though maybe they were banned anyway), or, as far as I know, involved in a job that required them to be licensed and in good standing to be banned from. They just chose a more private life afterwards so we don't know how hard they've had it for the most part, and didn't court further publicity...except when all of this is brought up again and some choose to be interviewed.

 

[Japanfan]

I'm just saying she never begged to take the jail time as portrayed in the movie and was not blindsided in the way Margot Robbie's tearful version of Tonya was. She knew what she was accepting with the plea bargain. It was never a situation of taking the jail time or being banned from the sport. The latter was most likely happening any way so she chose the option to avoid possible jail time.

I certainly did not take her begging for jail time as fact. I do understand that film does not aim to be a factual account - as admitted at the start of the movie.

I enjoyed the film as a film.

What really happened does not matter to me very much, so many years after the fact.

 

[VGThuy]

I certainly did not take her begging for jail time as fact. I do understand that film does not aim to be a factual account - as admitted at the start of the movie.

I enjoyed the film as a film.

What really happened does not matter to me very much, so many years after the fact.

Right, but it was being discussed in here as a fact and how Tonya wasn't allowed to move on or go back to skating as she was banned for life when other people would have been able to do after serving their time and paying their debt to society. I posted just to show that it is not a fact and provided my example to show it is also a reality for other people too and not just something only Tonya had to deal with as it is not an uncommon occurrence for people to lose their licenses and be banned from jobs if they broke laws or acted unethically as the standard to be banned from certain professions don't require one to be convicted of crimes.

 

[RockTheTassel]

Mirai and Tonya to me show different approaches can lead to different results. Both had cause to feel the USFS and/or society was stacked up against them in some way and that they would never be given a fair shot and that other skaters were preferred and had advantages beyond anybody's control...but the way they decided to fight through it could not have been more different.

I think the opposition to this comes from the idea that Mirai is some kind of victim facing constant hardships when in reality she's lived quite a privileged life. Of course she's struggled, but it really hasn't been beyond the norm for an elite skater. She's generally received support from much of the skating world (no, not the whole skating world) and the general public. While she's by no means rich or without hardship, she also appears to have a stable family life and clearly has options beyond elite skating. Tonya on the other hand did suffer abuse and was considered a low-class person with little chance of having a decent life if she didn't find success as a skater. Her actions were reprehensible and her circumstances are no excuse; but you can't deny that she lived a difficult, somewhat traumatic life. While I understand the sentiment, it does seem inappropriate to compare the two in this way when they've had starkly different lives.

 

[Inessence]

Shane Stant wanted to have his felony expunged to pursue a new career and was told no by a judge. All four men were basically unemployed at the time of the assault, so while the felony conviction limited them somewhat, it didn’t cost them their life’s work.

I’ve heard Tonya say in various interviews through the years much of the same things Margot cries to the judge. The film just needed some way to put it all across to the audience. I would have preferred present day Tonya say it during her interview segments and then sticking to the facts during the court flashback. The director instead decided to go major the tear-jerker route. It was, however, quick and effective and really brought her reality home for people that didn’t know the full story. The biggest drawback is folks ticked off that a U.S. court judge could ban her for life from her sport. As we all know, the court just made her resign and ban came later from the sport’s governing body, The USFSA.

 

[screech]

This Sasha Farber guy seems pretty cool.

He's my favourite male pro, but he always gets screwed over. They skip him over some years to give partners to less gifted pros. Or they stick him with not so great partners. He's a fantastic dancer (obviously) and he actually managed to make me like Snooki (from Jersey Shore) when she was on the show. I'd love to see him do well.

 

[Japanfan]

Right, but it was being discussed in here as a fact and how Tonya wasn't allowed to move on or go back to skating as she was banned for life when other people would have been able to do after serving their time and paying their debt to society. I posted just to show that it is not a fact and provided my example to show it is also a reality for other people too and not just something only Tonya had to deal with as it is not an uncommon occurrence for people to lose their licenses and be banned from jobs if they broke laws or acted unethically as the standard to be banned from certain professions don't require one to be convicted of crimes.

I'm sure that other people have been banned from jobs due to their breaking the law. But I am not sure as to the extent the repercussions of such situations in comparison to Tonya's situation.

Unethical practices are common, even acceptable, in the world of business. The standard "For people to loise their licenses and be banned from jobs" is rather low.

 

[skatepixie]

As far as the Tonya vs Vick thing goes:

I don't like either one of them, and I'd be perfectly happy never to hear another word about either.

However, one factor that people forget is that Vick's (horrible, disgusting, etc) actions weren't directly related to his sports career.

 

[Inessence]

As far as the Tonya vs Vick thing goes:

I don't like either one of them, and I'd be perfectly happy never to hear another word about either.

However, one factor that people forget is that Vick's (horrible, disgusting, etc) actions weren't directly related to his sports career.

So, by that logic, if a coach only molests children who aren’t their students, is convicted and receives only probation, then USFS should pay no mind? (Unless of course they forgot to directly report within XX number of days.)

 

[overedge]

Right, but it was being discussed in here as a fact and how Tonya wasn't allowed to move on or go back to skating as she was banned for life when other people would have been able to do after serving their time and paying their debt to society. I posted just to show that it is not a fact and provided my example to show it is also a reality for other people too and not just something only Tonya had to deal with as it is not an uncommon occurrence for people to lose their licenses and be banned from jobs if they broke laws or acted unethically as the standard to be banned from certain professions don't require one to be convicted of crimes.

It's also a fact that the court had no jurisdiction over controlling whether Tonya could continue skating or not. The court sentenced Tonya for the offenses/crimes that she was convicted of. It was the USFSA that banned her from participating in skating.

And the ban was IIRC on participating in organized skating that was sanctioned by the USFSA. In other words, she can't coach in USFS-sanctioned programs, or compete in USFS-sanctioned events, or appear in galas or shows or other events sanctioned by USFS. Yes, she lost most of her professional skating opportunities, but that may have been more because promoters or producers didn't want to be associated with her, or might have feared they would get some informal blowback from USFS from hiring her - not because USFS banned her from those opportunities. She could have gone to Nowhereistan and skated in Grublets on Ice, as long as Grublets wasn't a USFS-sanctioned show.

I know that I, Tonya wasn't supposed to be a documentary, but it really bothered me that the filmmakers didn't present that one particular part accurately. That, and demonstrating Tonya's "bad" music choices by showing her skating to a ZZ Top song, when even casual skating viewers would know that vocal music wasn't allowed then.

 

[overedge]

As far as the Tonya vs Vick thing goes:

I don't like either one of them, and I'd be perfectly happy never to hear another word about either.

However, one factor that people forget is that Vick's (horrible, disgusting, etc) actions weren't directly related to his sports career.

Only in the sense that e.g. he wasn't setting dogs on his football opponents to injure them. But every team that's employed him since he was charged/convicted has gotten a lot of criticism and other actions (e.g. boycotts, petitions) for doing so. Also it's highly unlikely his dogfighting operation would have been so successful, or been able to be covered up for so long, if he had been Joe No-name rather than a rich NFL player.

 

[LarrySK8]

Tonya was a female that would have graduated from high school in Milwaukie, Oregon in 1988. I would say, no, it was not a realistic option.

I am about 9 years older than Tonya and came from the gutters of the lower east side of Manhattan and south Brooklyn. I went to sub-par public schools and did well enough to get into a decent college in 1980. I did well enough at the decent college to get into a decent medical school in 1985. I had no money and worked full time as a server at a diner to support myself - a LaVonna Golden job - as well as library and nursing home (cleaning bedpans) jobs.

It was a clear ticket out of the gutter and, BTW, at that time, college was cheaper than skating. But this pathway out of the gutter is difficult and is in many ways, physically and emotionally abusive in its difficulty to overcome the obstacles. Many might opt out due to the difficulty of it all. By 1988 there were better options for women as women were actively being recruited into universities all over the USA.

Don't tell me that Tonya, making decent grades in HS, could not have applied for and been accepted to University of Oregon (Go Ducks! One of the best collegiate Track & Field programs EVER), a state school with a near 90% acceptance rate for resident applicants.

In any event, nothing excuses Tonya's pathway after the ban where at ages 23 - 25, after paying her dues she could have pursued an education and some form of work and life. She went after money-making schemes, etc and I certainly can't respect those stupid choices. She is a stupid woman.

No other explanations necessary.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Ah, it looks like we're spinning round and round about Tonya again...

I am 15, so I wasn't there when the whole Lillehammer thing happened. But from what I've heard, I personally don't care for Tonya. I believe she had some involvement or at least knowledge of the crime, and could have helped prevent it.

I do understand she didn't have a very good start in life, and I can sympathize with that, but there are many people who have been given the short end of the stick and rise above it, rather than staying in the low life.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=reZH2B8irtw
If you haven't seen this video about ballerina Michaela DePrince, watch away. She is a great example of someone who rose from the worst of the worst to the top of the world.

I also understand that we all do things we regret later - sometimes little things, sometimes big things. But that ain't gonna fix Nancy Kerrigan's knee and it sure as heck won't change the fact that Tonya was involved in a huge criminal attack.

I haven't seen "I, Tonya", but my understanding is that it was a loose adaptation of the real story, edited for cinematic purposes (the way Shakespeare's Julius Caesar doesn't completely stick to the original stories of Caesar's life). I think it's an interesting idea to make a movie based on it, but I don't think we can make judgments on the real story based on what's said in a movie.

(Also, hey, movie makers! If you wanna write about some figure skater who's supposedly "falsely accused" of something, I'm sure Ksenia Stolbova and Ivan Bukin are available!)

What I don't like is how Tonya's story seems to have taken over the media. A lot of people are only exposed to this sport every four years, and skating films are supposed to bring attention to an underrated sport. I don't frankly think a story about a skater from 24 years ago who gets her life screwed up exactly screams, "WELCOME TO OUR AMAZING SPORT!"

There are so many people who are inspirational in this sport. Aliona Savchenko, the woman who chased her Olympic dream through 3 partners and 5 Olympics. Alexa Scimeca Knierim, a national champion who nearly died from a rare illness, then made it to the Olympics with her husband at her side. Heck, make a movie about Mirai's 8-year journey. Just don't drag up this dirt that has been getting pushed around for 24 years...it's getting old.

 

[jlai]

I don't want to get into the Tonya thing. I went to a poverty simulation two weeks ago with a bunch of colleagues. I was given the role of a 17-year old who got a girl pregnant. In the end of the simulation, I dropped out, tried again, got into a fight, got suspended, got denied assistance because I didn't do the paperwork right, and the caseworker was too busy to deal with me. And no job.
Yes, some people did rise above poverty, but the whole argument about "other people have risen above poverty, so can you" is easy to make, but once I've been through the simulation, I have come to understand why so many are stuck within that cycle of poverty (and some cycle of crime) over and over.

The comment isn't about Tonya, but the whole "other people have risen above poverty, so can you" argument is simplistic when it comes to poverty in the states.

 

[WillyElliot]

As far as the Tonya vs Vick thing goes:

I don't like either one of them, and I'd be perfectly happy never to hear another word about either.

However, one factor that people forget is that Vick's (horrible, disgusting, etc) actions weren't directly related to his sports career.

And not just that, but he admitted his guilt, did his time, and visibly came out of it a changed person. Tonya is still lying IMO about her involvement. I'd like to think I'm your typical American where, okay, someone screws up, they admit it and apologize and show that they've changed. Time to move on. I put my feelings about Tonya as a hair below neutral. I don't wish her ill or well, but would probably be more inclined to wish her well if she was just honest about it all.

Tonya being on DWTS is a headscratcher. She's not bringing to the table any ardent fans. She's not an anti-Hero to get behind, and she certainly is no Hero. She's just an uncomfortable void.

 

[berthesghost]

Forget it

 

[bardtoob]

I am about 9 years older than Tonya and came from the gutters of the lower east side of Manhattan and south Brooklyn.

The experience of a man (assuming from your screen name) from the New York Metro Area born in 1961 and a woman from Milwaukie, Oregon born in 1970 are just so utterly different. However, this does not minimize your accomplishments.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I'm hoping Tonya wins DWTS and then winds up on The Amazing Race, Survivor, Project Runway, Drag Race, ANTM, Masterchef Australia, Top Chef Latino, and every other possible TV show because the level of WTFery here is unbelievable and I am LIVING for it!

And dont forget judge on "RuPauls Drag Race" Hennnneyyyyyy!!!!

I hear they may be casting for "Real Housewives of Portland????"

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Unethical practices are common, even acceptable, in the world of business. The standard "For people to loise their licenses and be banned from jobs" is rather low.

Where do you get this from? People lose licenses all the time and can no longer practice in the profession they trained for.

 

[cmk]

Where do you get this from? People lose licenses all the time and can no longer practice in the profession they trained for.

Debi Thomas lost her medical license and doesn't seem to want to try to get it back. I don't see the other skaters reaching out to Debi during her times of trouble either.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Debi Thomas lost her medical license and doesn't seem to want to try to get it back. I don't see the other skaters reaching out to Debi during her times of trouble either.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with whether people lose their licenses or not in all kinds of professions.

 

[Yazmeen]

As I've said in the movie thread, I enjoyed the film from the point of view of it's quality as a movie. The acting was first rate and it was very entertaining. But what I hated was the liberties it took with the story of the whack, blaming it all conveniently on the dead guy (I still wonder if Jeff and Tonya actually got together and concocted that one up specifically for the film or if that was the filmmakers' choice). Not to mention the completely false courtroom scene. And yes, I get it, it's a movie, filmmakers' right to tell the story their way, etc. But like others, I left the film wondering how many people who didn't know what actually happened would leave with the impression that Tonya was simply a victim of her circumstances and everyone else around here and really bore no responsibility herself for her pathway in life.

And for those who feel Tonya paid her dues and should just be allowed to live her life, I'm happy to let her have a life, she did pay the dues required of her for her crime. I've just seen too many years of that life constantly focused on yet another way to regain celebrity because she's still pissed that (in her own words) everyone else made money off the whack and she didn't. She seemed to actually be finally happily settled with her family, and then the movie comes along, and here we go again, another "15 minutes" for Tonya, and we're now supposed to call her a "victim" AND a "skating legend?" Bleah.

That said, it took about 5 minutes for her to once again court controversy with her television interview and her agent leaving because she didn't want to talk about the past, so her usual foot-in-mouth disease may trip her up yet again. And finally, I agree with some of what @LarrySK8 said above, but I disagree with one thing. I don't consider Tonya stupid (by definition, having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense) so much as just plain ignorant (by definition, lacking knowledge or awareness in general). And the problem is that this type of ignorance is really catching on and rearing its ugly head in the USA today.

 

[bardtoob]

That said, it took about 5 minutes for her to once again court controversy with her television interview and her agent leaving because she didn't want to talk about the past, so her usual foot-in-mouth disease may trip her up yet again.

Mmmm . . . speaking of that . . .

Don't you think it was unprofessional for an agent to reveal that he parted ways with his client because of the cash value terms she wanted in the contracts he sought for her? I thought this was strange. I have never heard of an agent publicly revealing the clients bargaining position (reserve price in $USD), particularly when one's agent is supposed to be one's closest business confidante.

(Gosh, as far as I can tell, Michelle Kwan was closer to Shep Goldberg than even her coaches.)

----------------------

ETA: Parting ways with Tonya BEFORE finding out the Oscar results was probably the biggest mistake of that agent's career