Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

MIsty Blades/Skate Mom said:
I wish that all 3 pairs on the podium could get some type of other award for their efforts and achievements. They ALL have been champions at big events at some point and went through tremendous obstacles to get to where they are today.
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:dog::barrel:rolleyes::duh:
 
After 2010, I lost interest in this sport and began following just singles again in 2014, because following all four disciplines is too much of an emotional investment. Compared to previous podiums, the Olympic result here is probably the one that makes me happiest!

While I don't care for the stupid 'Aljona and her servant' nonsense that is thrown around in this forum, I have the utmost respect for Aljona. When she decided to continue after 2014, I was thinking 'lol'... but a couple years later, she is on top at the Olympics. It takes someone really, really special to believe in yourself through such thick times, knowing the odds might be against you and you must be ready (hopefully) to accept circumstances if they don't work out yet again. I also respect Bruno a lot for the long way he's come, he is so strong in throws and lifts. Gotta love a big guy who isn't afraid of showing his emotions either. :)

Sui/Han are an outstanding pair and I'm already rooting for them in Beijing. With that said, I can't support them with their material this year. Recycled S/Z Turandot is not up-to-the-mark of what is expected for an OGM winning pair.

D/R are not my favorites in terms of style and aesthetics, but I'm happy for them too. Great competition pushing the technical limits, and lovely people as well.

T/M...I really wish they got better packaging. It's no secret their long is not good material, but even though their SP suits them much better, the music cut and ending are also rather abrupt there. Their basics, speed, and top-class elements remind me of B/S. I believe they can become an outstanding Russian pair in the classic style if they get programs that better suit their strengths.

The inability of American pairs to crack the top 6 is still blah for me. But kudos also to the Knierims for coming such a long way to get to the Olympics. They did very well given the circumstances.
 
So, quick thoughts on pairs:

ALIONA SAVCHENKO AND BRUNO MASSOT. WHAT A MIRACLE!!! I was crying the whole dang time! When she landed that last throw I just KNEW it was special. I honestly was ready to kill him after that doubled salchow in the short, but I think that's what makes this night so special. But where was her headband during the SP? That's what makes the whole costume divine!

Sui/Han were amazing too! Their SP just amazes me every time. The FS was very good too but I do think the judges made the right call; it just didn't have the same magic as Aliona and Bruno's for me. (But it was still DANG good!)

MEAGAN AND ERIC OMGGGGGGGG!!! I was hoping so much for this but I honestly didn't believe it was actually gonna happen! I was honestly sobbing through the entire last group tbh but this one just GOT ME! And hey, first throw quad sal ever landed in the Olympics, not too shabby! And I think this deserved to be a personal best - they were handing out points like candy to everyone else, so why not D/R, to be fair?

Speaking of candy...I can't get "sweet talking sugar coated candyman" out of my head. I wouldn't trade this Olympic podium for the world, but I honestly do feel bad for Tarasova/Morozov, they didn't see this coming. (But I am STILL scratching my head at how that got 74 for PCS)

I really like James/Cipres' Sound of Silence program, but they did not deserve 143 for that. It was a rather sloppy skate compared to the great performances they've given in the past. I simply don't understand how that earned 143 when they were getting 141 for clean free skates all season. It's a real shame, because they have soooooooo much style and that program is killer when it's clean.

Marchei/Hotarek captured my heart throughout this whole event. They didn't put a foot wrong and I want to give them a medal for just being entertaining.

I'm not the hugest fan of Zabiiako/Enbert, but I do see a lot of potential there. Their SP is very dreamy and pretty, but the FS just doesn't hold my attention. I think their scores were a wee bit high here tbh.

I'm really proud of Seguin/Bilodeau; that FS was solid!!! It's a good start for them as Canadian pairs starts to clear out after D/R retire. Really interested to see if Kirsten and Michael are sticking around too; that would be an interesting rivalry. On that note, kudos to MT/M for fighting out of that first warm-up group and having a strong skate.

Alexa and Chris...were Alexa and Chris. A gorgeous pair with some inconsistent side-by-sides. No need to rake them over the coals about it. They did what they could and finished 15th.

Also, it's a miracle, but the pairs event was so great that I almost didn't feel the Stolbova/Klimov-shaped hole in my heart. Almost.
 
IOC may put The Knierims on probation????

Reading the LA Times at coffee and they are saying IOC may place The Knierims on probation after they "dedicated their free program to the victims of FL."

SHOCKING, really.

The rule is you cant make the Olympic stage political.. That wasnt political..

They also told the French ski team they couldn't put a tiny sticker on their helmets to remember their teammate who just died.

On the other hand they said its OK for the 2 female USA goal keepers in hockey to place Statue of Liberty stickers on their face masks.

So deaths and remembrance = BAD

Symbols of freedom (political) = OK

What the heck is going on. lol
 
Mad for Skating said:
So, quick thoughts on pairs:

ALIONA SAVCHENKO AND BRUNO MASSOT. WHAT A MIRACLE!!! I was crying the whole dang time! When she landed that last throw I just KNEW it was special. I honestly was ready to kill him after that doubled salchow in the short, but I think that's what makes this night so special. But where was her headband during the SP? That's what makes the whole costume divine!

Sui/Han were amazing too! Their SP just amazes me every time. The FS was very good too but I do think the judges made the right call; it just didn't have the same magic as Aliona and Bruno's for me. (But it was still DANG good!)

MEAGAN AND ERIC OMGGGGGGGG!!! I was hoping so much for this but I honestly didn't believe it was actually gonna happen! I was honestly sobbing through the entire last group tbh but this one just GOT ME! And hey, first throw quad sal ever landed in the Olympics, not too shabby! And I think this deserved to be a personal best - they were handing out points like candy to everyone else, so why not D/R, to be fair?

Speaking of candy...I can't get "sweet talking sugar coated candyman" out of my head. I wouldn't trade this Olympic podium for the world, but I honestly do feel bad for Tarasova/Morozov, they didn't see this coming. (But I am STILL scratching my head at how that got 74 for PCS)

I really like James/Cipres' Sound of Silence program, but they did not deserve 143 for that. It was a rather sloppy skate compared to the great performances they've given in the past. I simply don't understand how that earned 143 when they were getting 141 for clean free skates all season. It's a real shame, because they have soooooooo much style and that program is killer when it's clean.

Marchei/Hotarek captured my heart throughout this whole event. They didn't put a foot wrong and I want to give them a medal for just being entertaining.

I'm not the hugest fan of Zabiiako/Enbert, but I do see a lot of potential there. Their SP is very dreamy and pretty, but the FS just doesn't hold my attention. I think their scores were a wee bit high here tbh.

I'm really proud of Seguin/Bilodeau; that FS was solid!!! It's a good start for them as Canadian pairs starts to clear out after D/R retire. Really interested to see if Kirsten and Michael are sticking around too; that would be an interesting rivalry. On that note, kudos to MT/M for fighting out of that first warm-up group and having a strong skate.

Alexa and Chris...were Alexa and Chris. A gorgeous pair with some inconsistent side-by-sides. No need to rake them over the coals about it. They did what they could and finished 15th.

Also, it's a miracle, but the pairs event was so great that I almost didn't feel the Stolbova/Klimov-shaped hole in my heart. Almost.
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Yes.. I knew D& R were gonna bronze here and even told @clairecloutier that they would a few days ago when she published her preview.

I agree with most you said including MARCHEI & HOTAREK!
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
IOC may put The Knierims on probation????

Reading the LA Times at coffee and they are saying IOC may place The Knierims on probation after they "dedicated their free program to the victims of FL."

SHOCKING, really.

The rule is you cant make the Olympic stage political.. That wasnt political..

What the heck is going on. lol
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What does probation mean? What can they do to them if the competition is over?
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
IOC may put The Knierims on probation????

Reading the LA Times at coffee and they are saying IOC may place The Knierims on probation after they "dedicated their free program to the victims of FL."
Click to expand...


Is this the article you're referring to?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olympics-buzz-20180215-story.html

The suggestion in the article that the IOC could put the Knierims on probation appears to be pure speculation on the author's part in what is clearly a commentary article, not a news report.
 
^^^ I was reading hard copy LA Times at Starby's. @clairecloutier

No, that wasnt the article in hard copy. It was a female reporter and said IOC "considering placing Knierims on probation."

Your article was published yesterday. The one I was reading is published today.

And the article I read was making it sould like probation was more than probable of happening......

It was also Front Page of Sports section in the LA Times...
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
Yeah thats the same article from yesterday that @clairecloutier pointed out.

In todays edition The Knierims were on front page saying that "American skaters on thin ice." IOC looks at placing Married team, Knierims on Probation.
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Weird, I can't find anything with more specifics. Maybe it's like the helmet thing where there it was reported that the IOC was asking the US goalies not to wear the helmets with the Statue of Liberty, but the IOC made a statement saying that they didn't do that. IOC rules can get really confusing.
 
One interesting thing is the comments from some people about how Bruno is still such an awful skater and so much weaker than Robin.

I dont agree at all. Robin I guess might be better overall (I think even that is debateable) but Bruno does many things better than Robin in fact. He is obviously much better at the twist, compare the twists of Savchenko & Szolkowy to Savchenko & Massot, and they are on another planet, S&S had a pathetic little poop of a twist by comparision. Bruno is a also a more consistent and better quality jumper, S&S had unision problems on the jumps even when they did them since his timiing was slower and weaker. His spins seem stronger too, and they dont go out of unision on them as much as S&S seemed to.

I also dont get the comments how it is a shame Robin doesnt have an Olympic Gold and a skater like Bruno does. Bruno did what Robin could never do, skate his best at the Olympics. For that alone he is more worthy of an Olympic Gold.
 
shady82 said:
Sui/Han are an outstanding pair and I'm already rooting for them in Beijing. With that said, I can't support them with their material this year. Recycled S/Z Turandot is not up-to-the-mark of what is expected for an OGM winning pair.
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Hmm, it may be recycled, but they give it their all in selling it...I might enjoy it more than S/Z.
 
Sui & Han's Turandot is outstanding. Definitely atleast on a similar level to the great Shen & Zhao's as far as interpretation and beauty. They just lack some of the power and ice coverage, and of course they didnt skate it technically perfect when it mattered as S&Z did at the 2003 worlds.
 
muffinplus said:
Hmm, it may be recycled, but they give it their all in selling it...I might enjoy it more than S/Z.
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judgejudy27 said:
Sui & Han's Turandot is outstanding. Definitely atleast on a similar level to the great Shen & Zhao's as far as interpretation and beauty. They just lack some of the power and ice coverage, and of course they didnt skate it technically perfect when it mattered as S&Z did at the 2003 worlds.
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It is a good program on paper. But also so glaringly recycled -- everything, including the music cuts, costumes, and choreography remind me wayyy too much of S/Z, who gave one of the greatest pairs long programs of all time using that program. It's hard, if not impossible to live up to that kind of tall order. Such obvious recycling is one of my pet peeves, like reusing both programs as Hanyu did (including his SP that we are seeing for the THIRD season :rolleyes:).
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
IOC may put The Knierims on probation????

Reading the LA Times at coffee and they are saying IOC may place The Knierims on probation after they "dedicated their free program to the victims of FL."

SHOCKING, really.

The rule is you cant make the Olympic stage political.. That wasnt political..

They also told the French ski team they couldn't put a tiny sticker on their helmets to remember their teammate who just died.

On the other hand they said its OK for the 2 female USA goal keepers in hockey to place Statue of Liberty stickers on their face masks.

So deaths and remembrance = BAD

Symbols of freedom (political) = OK

What the heck is going on. lol
Click to expand...

WHAT THE HELL??? Just for dedicating a performance? You can't do that! That's like Joannie Rochette skating in honor of her late mother. It seems like all my favorite pairs are in trouble with the IOC right now, LOL. Anyone else here ready to strangle Thomas Bach?

AngieNikodinovLove said:
Yes.. I knew D& R were gonna bronze here and even told @clairecloutier that they would a few days ago when she published her preview.

I agree with most you said including MARCHEI & HOTAREK!
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I knew D/R could do it, but I honestly predicted it was going to be T/M for bronze. But as soon as D/R laid down that killer FS I just had a good feeling it was going to stand up for a medal.

AngieNikodinovLove said:
I agree with you the most, then @Karpenko and then @clairecloutier when it comes to Pairs
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Debrah said:
Mad for skating - did you read my mind? ITA with everything you wrote...
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Thanks, @AngieNikodinovLove and @Debrah! It's about time somebody agrees with me LOL.
 
judgejudy27 said:
One interesting thing is the comments from some people about how Bruno is still such an awful skater and so much weaker than Robin.

I dont agree at all. Robin I guess might be better overall (I think even that is debateable) but Bruno does many things better than Robin in fact. He is obviously much better at the twist, compare the twists of Savchenko & Szolkowy to Savchenko & Massot, and they are on another planet, S&S had a pathetic little poop of a twist by comparision. Bruno is a also a more consistent and better quality jumper, S&S had unision problems on the jumps even when they did them since his timiing was slower and weaker. His spins seem stronger too, and they dont go out of unision on them as much as S&S seemed to.

I also dont get the comments how it is a shame Robin doesnt have an Olympic Gold and a skater like Bruno does. Bruno did what Robin could never do, skate his best at the Olympics. For that alone he is more worthy of an Olympic Gold.
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What a crock! Aliona botched many things along with Robin during that season and throughout their career. It was also her idea to try that Hail Mary 3ATh that whole season that never worked. Bruno is pretty much like Rodnina’s partners. A means to an end. A throwaway.
 
By the logic all of Rodninas partners were disposable, even a super great of the sport himself like Zaitsev, then all of Aliona's partners are too, including Szolkowy. And Bruno was good enough to win the Olympic Gold with Aliona, which Robin never was, and in the alternate universe they had they still been together I am sure the best they would have done again is another bronze medal, behind Sui/Han and Duhamel/Radford (best case scenario).
 
clairecloutier said:
What I fear is that the inflated GOE/PCS that Tarasova/Morozov got this season could give them a sense of complacency, a sense that they don't need to work hard to improve, because they're already getting such high marks. After Europeans, Vladimir talked about how they were feeling really confident because they had a win there. I found that kind of interesting, because they actually didn't skate very well at Euros, so their confidence coming out of it (based on inflated marks) seemed a bit misplaced somehow.
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People said the same about Hanyu years ago, and about whichever top skaters they considered overscored, but the top skaters almost always push themselves hard even after winning gold medals. The ones who get to the top just have that mentality. T/M haven't won a World Champs or an Olympic medal, and with Sui/Han in their way, I just can't see them saying to themselves "Yes, we've reached the pinnacle, let's just chill".

I thought the quote about confidence was standard post-competition interview talk. A skater is not going to say they feel worried or insecure heading towards another competition, even if it's true. They all generally minimize the negative and focus on the positive to the press.
 
MAXSwagg said:
What a crock! Aliona botched many things along with Robin during that season and throughout their career. It was also her idea to try that Hail Mary 3ATh that whole season that never worked. Bruno is pretty much like Rodnina’s partners. A means to an end. A throwaway.
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It is a team sport and no one is a throw away. If the man didn't matter Stansilav Morozov would be a multi time world and Olympic champ. Given that he skated with Tatiana and Aliona. Poor Ukraine.
 
I'm currently listening to Skating Lesson's This and That: 2018 Olympic Games Pairs Recap with Meagan Duhamel

This far (I'm around the 15 min mark) it has been pretty focused on D/R's experience on the Olympic ice, but the episode being TWO HOURS in duration I presume Meagan will bring up other pairs stuff, too! :lol:

ETA: After the 20 min mark they discuss Ksenia&Fedor not being there and Meagan talks about how Ksenia has been a lot more warmer and friendlier this year than before. And then (23 min) they talk about Aljona (always been nice to Meagan) and Meagan thinks she's just going to keep going, like, forever. Then (25 min) it's Yu/Zhang and how beautiful skater Yu is, and after that they discuss what a great event the pairs was in general. Then (28 min) comes MT/M2, then Knierims, after which (maybe after the 38 min mark or so) they talk about the team event. Then after 45 min they move onto Sui/Han; Meagan's comments re: lost levels in FS was pretty interesting to me. Around 50 min it's Ryom/Kim (Meagan is currently coaching them!) and a few minutes after that they move onto James/Cipres (who used to live at Meagan's house in Montreal heading into the 2012 Worlds!) and training in Florida with John Z. & his team. Then around the 60 min mark there's some more general talk about different approaches to coaching etc. Around 1:07 she starts to analyze S/M's brilliant long program, after which they talk about T/M's not-so-brilliant FP.

ETA2: Okay, back to this... For a detailed 3twist technique analysis, listen to 1:14-1:18. Then it's throw techniques.
Around 1:24-1:27 they start to talk about Julianne&Charlie. Then Valentina&Ondrej and Nicole&Matteo.

...and then miscellaneous stuff about judging, points system, pee testing plus general Olympic talk etc.
 
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