Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

libecha

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L'Equipe did an interview with Bruno Massot in today's issue that talked in depth about the background of the Olympic victory and it was a pretty difficult read: https://www.lequipe.fr/Patinage-art...sot-je-n-aurais-jamais-eu-ca-en-france/885594

He was surviving for 1.5 years on just 200 euros a month while waiting for his FFSG release, eating bread and rice because it was the cheapest and contemplating living in his car. He is happy to bring a gold medal to Germany because the DEU paid the rent on his studio apartment, found him some furniture, paid for him to eat, and paid for his training when he had nothing thanks to DG. He says DG will not be happy with this interview but that at this moment it is time to stop lying and say how it really was, to open people's eyes, and that since he is with Germany he doesn't have to be afraid of DG anymore.

I feel a bit sick after reading this.
 

misskarne

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The good news is that, last year, most pairs who were only guaranteed 1 GP actually got 2 GPs in the initial selection.

*seethes* The BAD news is that that came at the expense of the very deserving reigning JWC getting NOTHING even though they beat three other teams who benefited from your "good news" at Worlds!
 

Sylvia

So happy the JGP season is back!
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66,825
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VGThuy

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He seriously needs to be ousted from the French Fed and be prevented from obtaining any position of power due to his abuses much less cheating scandals he's been involved. I'm one of those who believed B/S and A/P deserved the 2002 gold but you can't deny he was seriously involved in something shady there.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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6,209
I also have questions about the way the French Fed is being run when their events have paper medals, plastic stars, rickety podiums....

YES!! You took all the words outta my mouth..

Plastic stars, ratchety podiums, pairs and dance teams pulled constantly..... No country is a powerhouse in all disciplines in Europe(excluding Russia) so I wish this GP event would float... Finland, Italy, Spain etc.... I think each country would take pride in hosting this event that may not come around again for 5-10 yrs....
 

supergirl573

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476
YES!! You took all the words outta my mouth..

Plastic stars, ratchety podiums, pairs and dance teams pulled constantly..... No country is a powerhouse in all disciplines in Europe(excluding Russia) so I wish this GP event would float... Finland, Italy, Spain etc.... I think each country would take pride in hosting this event that may not come around again for 5-10 yrs....
I still can’t believe that V/M’s only GPF gold is made of plastic.
 

Sylvia

So happy the JGP season is back!
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66,825
Cross-posting from the Kiss & Cry section for those without access...

Pairs - Short Program Starting Order:

Warm-Up Group 1
1 Elizaveta KASHITSYNA / Mark MAGYAR HUN
2 Paige CONNERS / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI ISR
3 Deanna STELLATO / Nathan BARTHOLOMAY USA
4 Annika HOCKE / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER

Warm-Up Group 2
5 Anna DUSKOVA / Martin BIDAR CZE
6 Ioulia CHTCHETININA / Mikhail AKULOV SUI
7 Tae Ok RYOM / Ju Sik KIM PRK
8 Zoe JONES / Christopher BOYADJI GBR

Warm-Up Group 3
9 Lola ESBRAT / Andrei NOVOSELOV FRA
10 Camille RUEST / Andrew WOLFE CAN
11 Miu SUZAKI / Ryuichi KIHARA JPN
12 Lana PETRANOVIC / Antonio SOUZA-KORDEIRU CRO

Warm-Up Group 4
13 Laura BARQUERO / Aritz MAESTU ESP
14 Kyueun KIM / Alex Kang Chan KAM KOR
15 Kristina ASTAKHOVA / Alexei ROGONOV RUS
16 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN

Warm-Up Group 5
17 Ekaterina ALEXANDROVSKAYA / Harley WINDSOR AUS
18 Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM USA
19 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN
20 Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER AUT

Warm-Up Group 6
21 Valentina MARCHEI / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA
22 Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU CAN
23 Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN
24 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA

Warm-Up Group 7
25 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS
26 Aljona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER
27 Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT RUS
28 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA

Qualification rule: The best 16 skaters after Short Program will advance to the next segment.

Time schedule by team (Wednesday 18:20 to 22:39 in Milan): http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/wc2018/wc2018_Pairs_SP_TimeSchedule.pdf
 

starrynight

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3,001
YES!! You took all the words outta my mouth..

Plastic stars, ratchety podiums, pairs and dance teams pulled constantly..... No country is a powerhouse in all disciplines in Europe(excluding Russia) so I wish this GP event would float... Finland, Italy, Spain etc.... I think each country would take pride in hosting this event that may not come around again for 5-10 yrs....

I actually suggested that in the other thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...i-would-never-have-had-that-in-france.103659/

I think a floating GP (a bit like they have in the JGP circuit) is an excellent idea. It would be very exciting for some countries to get a GP event. Putting these events in countries that normally don't get them has been really successful - the GPFs in Barcelona were a clear success. Rather than giving them to a Federation that is so complacent it doesn't really try. I don't understand that if Barcelona (a small skating Fed) can put on such a grand GPF why France can't scrape together a half decent GP event.

And Misha's....

You couldnt even eBay that....

Misha was a winner of a small blue star. Although those things will probably end up being funny collector's items in years to come because of how peculiar they were.
 

SamuraiK

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4,286
Plastic stars, ratchety podiums, pairs and dance teams pulled constantly..... No country is a powerhouse in all disciplines in Europe(excluding Russia) so I wish this GP event would float... Finland, Italy, Spain etc.... I think each country would take pride in hosting this event that may not come around again for 5-10 yrs....


I've been waiting for Finlandia Trophy to finally take over FRA's GP spot forever but their depth is kinda minimal these days. French fed may be an abomination but french skaters deserve the spotlight. Maybe Italy but their golden generation is waving goodbye this week.
 

supergirl573

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476
I've been waiting for Finlandia Trophy to finally take over FRA's GP spot forever but their depth is kinda minimal these days. French fed may be an abomination but french skaters deserve the spotlight. Maybe Italy but their golden generation is waving goodbye this week.
I thought Germany would get it again.
 

Mad for Skating

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2,887
That’s not a muscle problem. He had a shoulder injury and that is very hard to fix. Trankov alos had a shoulder injury at some stage, if I recall correctly. So it seems to be not that rare with pair males.

If I remember right, Fedor injured his shoulder at the beginning of 2016 and since then, their twist has been a weak point. He had a keyhole surgery to fix some longstanding nerve problems in the summer. Between the two problems, it's no wonder they've not been at top form in a while. And yes, Trankov did have a shoulder injury that kept them out of the 2014-15 season.
 

Seerek

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5,449
Sorry, but that French YouTube poster that hates literally all programs whose music is not from the 21st century is so annoying. He/She literally floods every video with his/her criticisms that the older music programs put him/her to sleep. ugh.
 

Mad for Skating

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2,887
Thoughts on Pairs Short:

Aliona and Bruno were AMAZING!!! I didn't think that program could get better but IT DID and I was jumping up and down on my couch (even with the bad stream I had). It's a sensational program I will remember in 20 years. Tarasova/Morozov were very very solid, good for them.
I'm having a hard time with the scores for James/Cipres. They got a 75 with two small but visible mistakes. I know the scoring in general was rather high here, but that didn't sit well with me. Zabiiako/Enbert's scores were also high imo but at least it looked cleaner. Nicole and Matteo were AWESOME! I'm overjoyed for Peng/Jin too; that's the SP they deserved at the Olympics. Astakhova/Rogonov have been my favorites all season so I'm happy for them too. Vale and Ondrej, Kirsten and Michael, Yu/Zhang, and Alexa and Chris are all very close behind so I think this will be a VERY interesting event!!! I'm so excited to see the free skates! Also heartbroken for Julianne and Charlie; why why why why why?????
 

Amantide

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Going to watch the Pairs tonight! Platinum seats, I'm coming babes. :respec:
Sucks that Klibova are not here. I bought the tickets mainly to see them. :wuzrobbed

So it seems to be not that rare with pair males.

It does make sense. With all the lifts, throws, spirals holding the ladies, no wonder.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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6,209
I'm having a hard time with the scores for James/Cipres.

Yes Yes Yes!!!! I know WE all Love them..but after J&C were done..I was like OK well maybe Della-Monica & Guarise or some other team will make final flight as this program had the usual noticeable flaws... And then their score came up and Im like really?? How? Why? And how and why?

I love them to Reeses Pieces but that score is not right. If I were other teams placed 4th through 7th I might want to quit pairs skating if judges keep doing this. Subjective? Of course.. but I just like fairness and the J&C score even tho WE LOVE THEM is flat out not right...... I dont care if its their possible last competition and some judges want to prop them up. That wasnt a 3rd place finish no matter what Universe its being judged in. Sigh.
 
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clairecloutier

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That thread was interesting, because it’s not like Meagan/Eric didn’t benefit from a few beneficial non-calls on 2-footed throws in their career. ;)

After this season, it’s my opinion that technical callers should definitely review the landings of every throw jump. It’s frequently almost impossible to see 2-foots in real time, it only takes a few seconds to review on slow-mo, and frankly, they’re missing a lot of mistakes right now.
 

RoseRed

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1,841
That thread was interesting, because it’s not like Meagan/Eric didn’t benefit from a few beneficial non-calls on 2-footed throws in their career. ;)

After this season, it’s my opinion that technical callers should definitely review the landings of every throw jump. It’s frequently almost impossible to see 2-foots in real time, it only takes a few seconds to review on slow-mo, and frankly, they’re missing a lot of mistakes right now.
She was talking about it at Euros too, especially because it was only certain teams who were getting big + GOE on 2-footed throws while others were getting -. She wasn't wrong when I was watching.
 

clairecloutier

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She was talking about it at Euros too, especially because it was only certain teams who were getting big + GOE on 2-footed throws while others were getting -. She wasn't wrong when I was watching.

Yes, she is definitely right that some teams get called on it and some don't. Euros was the worst example this season, with T/M getting huge GOE on 2-footed throws at Euros while nearly every other team that had 2-footed throws was penalized. That's why I feel all throws should be reviewed by the callers--like I said, a lot of mistakes are being missed.

It was just the indignant tone of the tweet that was somewhat ;). Especially since D/R just got a non-call on a 2-footed throw in their Olympic SP. (Although it didn't affect the outcome of the medals there.)
 
D

Deleted member 19433

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Yes, she is definitely right that some teams get called on it and some don't. Euros was the worst example this season, with T/M getting huge GOE on 2-footed throws at Euros while nearly every other team that had 2-footed throws was penalized. That's why I feel all throws should be reviewed by the callers--like I said, a lot of mistakes are being missed.

The technical callers would only be able to do anything under the current rules if the throw was underrotated or downgraded (which is pretty uncommon and most throws from top teams with touchdowns of the free foot clearly aren't and wouldn't need to be reviewed for that). It's up to the judges to give the appropriate GOE which, keep in mind, does take into account the positive aspects of an element. That's not to say that I agree with every GOE, but most are defensible under the current rules. It will be interesting to see how the guidelines change when they release the -5 to +5 criteria. I already find myself trying to apply those new GOEs anyway, and I like the idea of having more of a range, as long as they're used appropriately.
 

clairecloutier

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But the judges are supposed to be able to review slow-mo video, aren’t they? If that’s the case, then they absolutely should be reviewing it, even if the callers aren’t.

Current throw jump GOE is sometimes okay, sometimes not. I could not go so far as to call it mostly defensible, because too often the judges screw up in major competitions with medals on the line. It’s important that the judges get this right, and often they’re not.
 

Mad for Skating

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2,887
Going to watch the Pairs tonight! Platinum seats, I'm coming babes. :respec:
Sucks that Klibova are not here. I bought the tickets mainly to see them. :wuzrobbed



It does make sense. With all the lifts, throws, spirals holding the ladies, no wonder.

Ugh I miss them too! But they will fight back even stronger next year. I feel it in the universe. #KlibovaForever #TeamStolboss
 

Mad for Skating

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Yes Yes Yes!!!! I know WE all Love them..but after J&C were done..I was like OK well maybe Della-Monica & Guarise or some other team will make final flight as this program had the usual noticeable flaws... And then their score came up and Im like really?? How? Why? And how and why?

I love them to Reeses Pieces but that score is not right. If I were other teams placed 4th through 7th I might want to quit pairs skating if judges keep doing this. Subjective? Of course.. but I just like fairness and the J&C score even tho WE LOVE THEM is flat out not right...... I dont care if its their possible last competition and some judges want to prop them up. That wasnt a 3rd place finish no matter what Universe its being judged in. Sigh.

Thank you for seeing the light! In general, I think J/C manage to get away with some pretty high PCS for pure creativity and transitions, while lacking the deep edges and posture of the top teams. As much as their programs blow me away, I think that should be taken into consideration. The 9s for transitions and interpretation I can totally agree with, but they should not be getting 9s for skating skills. If we were to reward skaters for creative programs, Misha Ge should get the same PCS as Yuzuru Hanyu and Mariah Bell's Chicago would be getting 9.5s. It's hard for me to see a pair rewarded for stuff that simply isn't going on. I would like them better if they were scored fairly.

That said, they're amazingly talented and congrats on the bronze.
 

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