Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

Mad for Skating

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Yes, she is definitely right that some teams get called on it and some don't. Euros was the worst example this season, with T/M getting huge GOE on 2-footed throws at Euros while nearly every other team that had 2-footed throws was penalized. That's why I feel all throws should be reviewed by the callers--like I said, a lot of mistakes are being missed.

It was just the indignant tone of the tweet that was somewhat ;). Especially since D/R just got a non-call on a 2-footed throw in their Olympic SP. (Although it didn't affect the outcome of the medals there.)

T/M CHRONICALLY get huge GOE for two-footed throws. Evgenia is a master at disguising it, but now I've started to watch super closely for them and I see several clear two-foots that have not been called. I think everyone has gotten away with a two-foot once or twice in their life, but T/M get it ALL THE TIME.

I love and respect Meagan a lot, but sometimes she can come off a little salty. It's great that she likes to get involved with the sport and share her opinions, but it's a fine line.

I'm just hoping she uses her voice to call out stupid Phil Hersh.
 
D

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But the judges are supposed to be able to review slow-mo video, aren’t they? If that’s the case, then they absolutely should be reviewing it, even if the callers aren’t.

Current throw jump GOE is sometimes okay, sometimes not. I could not go so far as to call it mostly defensible, because too often the judges screw up in major competitions with medals on the line. It’s important that the judges get this right, and often they’re not.

From what I've been told (in a post here by someone who seemed to be in the know), judges at ISU competitions have regular speed video only.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Thank you for seeing the light! In general, I think J/C manage to get away with some pretty high PCS for pure creativity and transitions, while lacking the deep edges and posture of the top teams. As much as their programs blow me away, I think that should be taken into consideration. The 9s for transitions and interpretation I can totally agree with, but they should not be getting 9s for skating skills. If we were to reward skaters for creative programs, Misha Ge should get the same PCS as Yuzuru Hanyu and Mariah Bell's Chicago would be getting 9.5s. It's hard for me to see a pair rewarded for stuff that simply isn't going on. I would like them better if they were scored fairly.

That said, they're amazingly talented and congrats on the bronze.

I agree. Although Mariah Bell? :confused:

PM me and help me see what you see......
 

Sylvia

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ISU Season Best Total scores after Worlds: http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2017-18/sbtspto.htm

Top 24:

1 245.84 Aljona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
2 235.47 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
3 230.15 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018 (Retired)
4 225.53 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
5 222.74 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS ISU GP NHK Trophy 2017 11.11.2017
6 219.20 Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN ISU GP Skate America 2017 25.11.2017
7 218.53 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
8 216.59 Valentina MARCHEI / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
9 212.88 Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT RUS XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
10 206.06 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
11 204.33 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
12 204.02 Julianne SEGUIN / Charlie BILODEAU CAN XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
13 203.64 Kristina ASTAKHOVA / Alexei ROGONOV RUS ISU GP NHK Trophy 2017 11.11.2017
14 202.07 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
15 194.42 Tarah KAYNE / Danny O'SHEA USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2018 26.01.2018
16 193.63 Tae Ok RYOM / Ju Sik KIM PRK XXIII Olympic Winter Games 2018 15.02.2018
17 193.07 Liubov ILYUSHECHKINA / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN ISU GP Internationaux de France 2017 18.11.2017 (Retired)
18 192.51 Alexa SCIMECA KNIERIM / Chris KNIERIM USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2017 11.11.2017
19 191.58 Aleksandra BOIKOVA / Dmitrii KOZLOVSKII RUS ISU CS Minsk Arena Ice Star 2017 29.10.2017
20 190.61 Ashley CAIN / Timothy LEDUC USA ISU Four Continents Championships 2018 26.01.2018
21 190.31 Ekaterina ALEXANDROVSKAYA / Harley WINDSOR AUS ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017 29.09.2017
22 189.60 Anna DUSKOVA / Martin BIDAR CZE ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
23 184.83 Annika HOCKE / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018
24 184.30 Miriam ZIEGLER / Severin KIEFER AUT ISU World Championships 2018 22.03.2018

According to past Grand Prix selection rules, the top 12 10 (eta: refer to Claire's post below) finishers from Worlds are guaranteed 2 GPs (if any of the top 6 seeded teams retire and/or elect not to compete in the GP, the next team(s) usually move up to be seeded):
(2018 Worlds final standings)
1 Aljona SAVCHENKO / Bruno MASSOT GER 245.84 1 1
2 Evgenia TARASOVA / Vladimir MOROZOV RUS 225.53 2 2
3 Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 218.36 3 3
4 Natalia ZABIIAKO / Alexander ENBERT RUS 207.88 4 6
5 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 206.06 5 5
6 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO CAN 204.33 10 4
7 Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG CHN 203.36 9 7
8 Kristina ASTAKHOVA / Alexei ROGONOV RUS 202.16 7 9
9 Cheng PENG / Yang JIN CHN 202.07 6 10
10 Valentina MARCHEI / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA 202.02 8 8

11 Anna DUSKOVA / Martin BIDAR CZE 189.60 13 11
12 Tae Ok RYOM / Ju Sik KIM PRK 188.77 12 12
 
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clairecloutier

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According to past Grand Prix selection rules, the top 12 finishers from Worlds are guaranteed 2 GPs (if any of the top 6 seeded teams retire and/or elect not to compete in the GP, the next team(s) usually move up to be seeded):
(2018 Worlds final standings)


@Sylvia I think last year, it was top 10 in pairs/dance at Worlds who automatically qualified for 2 GPs?? See page 3 in this document: https://www.isu.org/docman-document...33-gp-general-announcement-2017-18-final/file
 

nimi

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In the Russia thread over at the GSD, @Eislauffan shared some interesting news:
Another story (not from the presser apparently) is that Nina Mozer will take a break of about half a year and then decide if she will return to coaching full-time or only help as a consultant. But she pointed out that she will stay connected.
https://rsport.ria.ru/figure_skating/20180327/1134668375.html



ETA: Go read the Mozer interview @TAHbKA just posted
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/samokhvalovs-interview-with-mozer.103730/

In that interview, she also said this about Robin's future involvement:
AS: Will the German specialist Szelkowy stay in the team?
NM: I would like him to, but it depends on the finances of our country. I can't expect Robin to work for free. He will be payed till February, for now that's it. I don't know what will be going on with the sport after.
 
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Mad for Skating

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clairecloutier

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From what I've been told (in a post here by someone who seemed to be in the know), judges at ISU competitions have regular speed video only.


To return to this point. This ISU document confirms that judges do have access to video replay. However, it doesn't clearly state whether the judges' replay video is slow-motion or not. The callers definitely have access to slow-motion video.

@Aussie Willy Since you are a judge, could tell us whether ISU judges have access to slow-motion video? Or is it just regular-speed video?
 
D

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To return to this point. This ISU document confirms that judges do have access to video replay. However, it doesn't clearly state whether the judges' replay video is slow-motion or not. The callers definitely have access to slow-motion video.

@Aussie Willy Since you are a judge, could tell us whether ISU judges have access to slow-motion video? Or is it just regular-speed video?

Here is the post I thought I remembered from a couple years back that said the judges didn't have slow-mo:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/judging-in-us.97034/page-2#post-4639687
 

Ka3sha

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clairecloutier

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A couple of pairs articles that are a bit :eek:.

In this French article (re-posted from the Canadian pairs/dance split thread), Julianne Seguin reveals that she had 3 concussions in 2017:
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...ie-bilodeau-jeux-olympiques-pyeongchang-pekin

Meanwhile, there is a new long interview with Natalia Zabijako that covers her career so far. The article tells of the serious training accident she experienced a year or two ago while practicing throw triple Axel. She hit her head on the ice, suffered a brain hematoma/cracked skull, and was in the ICU for a week and a half. TBH, I'm a bit amazed that she was able to come back from this to compete again. Zabijako has been through quite a bit in her career.
http://fs-gossips.com/natalia-zabij...ought-if-i-close-them-ill-close-them-forever/
 

Mad for Skating

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A couple of pairs articles that are a bit :eek:.

In this French article (re-posted from the Canadian pairs/dance split thread), Julianne Seguin reveals that she had 3 concussions in 2017:
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...ie-bilodeau-jeux-olympiques-pyeongchang-pekin

Meanwhile, there is a new long interview with Natalia Zabijako that covers her career so far. The article tells of the serious training accident she experienced a year or two ago while practicing throw triple Axel. She hit her head on the ice, suffered a brain hematoma/cracked skull, and was in the ICU for a week and a half. TBH, I'm a bit amazed that she was able to come back from this to compete again. Zabijako has been through quite a bit in her career.
http://fs-gossips.com/natalia-zabij...ought-if-i-close-them-ill-close-them-forever/

Poor Julianne! I knew she had some injuries last year but I didn't know there were three freakin concussions. I really hope there was no permanent damage...
I read the interview with Natalia yesterday and was honestly shocked. I knew there had been an accident on a throw 3A but yikes, I had no idea it was that serious. I just want to know, why was the Russian no. 3 couple practicing triple axels when even T/M and S/K weren't? Seems a little odd. I'm not a huge Z/E fan but I'm happy she was able to skate again and reach the level she's at. Proof that pair girls are warriors in sequins!
 

clairecloutier

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I just want to know, why was the Russian no. 3 couple practicing triple axels when even T/M and S/K weren't?

There was a push for all the Russian teams to try quad/ultra-C elements after Duhamel/Radford's quad throw success in 2015/16.

Stolbova/Klimov started working on a throw quad (as well as side-by-side 3T/3T) in spring/summer 2015. It may have been around that same time frame that Zabijako/Enbert started training the throw triple Axel. And Tarasova/Morozov debuted their quad twist in fall 2016 IIRC.
 
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Mad for Skating

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There was a push for all the Russian teams to try quad/ultra-C elements after Duhamel/Radford's quad throw success in 2015/16.

Stolbova/Klimov started working on a throw quad (as well as side-by-side 3T/3T) in spring/summer 2015. It may have been around that same time frame that Zabijako/Enbert started training the throw triple Axel. And Tarasova/Morozov debuted their quad twist in fall 2016 IIRC.

I do remember the horror stories about Stolbova/Klimov practicing quad throw (girrrrrrrrl your poor ankles!!!), but I guess that made sense to me because they were a top pair. Oh, those were the days...

Yeah, it was fall of 2016 - I believe it was at Skate America. Vladimir got sick before the free skate and could barely skate but they still went for it (it didn't work but I remember thinking "props for courage"!)

Anyway, I hope Z/E abandon the idea of a triple axel. They should be focusing on things like making their side by sides more consistent and getting a better free program. I do believe they have what it takes - well-done elements, clean lines, good skating skills. They just need to package it a little better. Usually I'm not a fan of airy, pastel-dress programs, but I did really enjoy their SP this year.
 

StasiyaGalustyanLove

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My wife and I have just learned on this very web sight that Meghean D. and her partner have re-tired. Now that they will no longer be class-less public defamering of Russian stars, I am hoping Canada will have a new top pair but it seems there is controversy over who will be number one in Canada as there are a few teams that could be it but some one will have to choose. I am not sure who I hope will win yet, I will think about it.

And also the top U.S. non married pair of Melissa and Marvin are also split? It is too bad. They have had many negative neigh sayers here but I think those people were like two year old's! Not mature, all bad comments but I continue reading them because anger is healthy.
 

Mad for Skating

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My wife and I have just learned on this very web sight that Meghean D. and her partner have re-tired. Now that they will no longer be class-less public defamering of Russian stars, I am hoping Canada will have a new top pair but it seems there is controversy over who will be number one in Canada as there are a few teams that could be it but some one will have to choose. I am not sure who I hope will win yet, I will think about it.

And also the top U.S. non married pair of Melissa and Marvin are also split? It is too bad. They have had many negative neigh sayers here but I think those people were like two year old's! Not mature, all bad comments but I continue reading them because anger is healthy.

I think the contenders for Canada's no. 1 team will be either Moore-Towers/Marinaro or Seguin/Bilodeau. They're both very good but still have a way to go before they're banging on the door of the world podiums.

So far, it's just rumor about Marissa Castelli and Mervin Tran's split. I actually like them a lot; their programs this year were amazing! They did struggle with jumps, but I loved their packaging.
 

Dobre

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I think the contenders for Canada's no. 1 team will be either Moore-Towers/Marinaro or Seguin/Bilodeau. They're both very good but still have a way to go before they're banging on the door of the world podiums.

Pairs is very volatile. Without Duhamel & Radford and Savchenko & Massot, Moore-Towers & Marinaro's current ranking from Worlds would put them right in banging-on-the-door position now. Sui & Han will be back. One really never knows what to expect with Stolbova & Klimov. Yu & Zhang can do way better than at Worlds. A good many teams can defeat M-T&M and/or S&B on a given day. But in the mix.
 

IloveFS

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Pairs is very volatile. Without Duhamel & Radford and Savchenko & Massot, Moore-Towers & Marinaro's current ranking from Worlds would put them right in banging-on-the-door position now. Sui & Han will be back. One really never knows what to expect with Stolbova & Klimov. Yu & Zhang can do way better than at Worlds. A good many teams can defeat M-T&M and/or S&B on a given day. But in the mix.

Let's wait and see what happens next season.... I really think that MTM2 is just coming into their prime and I think Seguin & Bilodeau signalled what they are capable of at the Olympics. I wouldn't count them out is what I am saying...
 

whiteskates

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I can't see any current Canadian pair beating Tarasova/Morozov, Sui/Han or James/Cipres (who have announced they are staying one more year) - at least not next year - unless something unexpected happens.
 

Mad for Skating

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Pairs is very volatile. Without Duhamel & Radford and Savchenko & Massot, Moore-Towers & Marinaro's current ranking from Worlds would put them right in banging-on-the-door position now. Sui & Han will be back. One really never knows what to expect with Stolbova & Klimov. Yu & Zhang can do way better than at Worlds. A good many teams can defeat M-T&M and/or S&B on a given day. But in the mix.

Agree, I don't believe we'll have a Canadian takeover yet, but in a few years this could be promising! Anything can happen in pairs!
 

whiteskates

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i thought the level was very high in pairs during Worlds this year. There were lots of good performances. As for the mentioned Canadian pairs this season, I thought Moore-Towers/Marinaro had improved a lot since last year. Her position in the death spiral was considerably better than before but they must improve further for a chance to medal. Seguin/Bilodeau are quite cute but lack consistency.
 

Seerek

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It's unfortunate, but it's not surprising. To make the next big step, Anna/Martin would have needed to move to Montreal (or somewhere similar). If Anna's plans is to pursue university right after high school graduation, then staying in Prague makes the most sense.

From this Olympic Cycle, the only top juniors that transitioned into the next cycle appear to be Katia/Harley (Yu and Jin technically as well, with other partners). Huge generation gap indeed (that Anna and Martin and to a lesser extent Seguin/Bilodeau and maybe Ryom/Kim were supposed to be filling)
 

Sylvia

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The CZE federation's press release is posted in this GSD news thread:
Anna Duskova / Martin Bidar split announced; both aim to continue with new partners


As posted in the Israeli Skating News thread earlier today, Evgeni Krasnopolsky is listed on icepartnersearch (again): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/israeli-skating-news.100460/page-8#post-5355087
As @Zemgirl aptly put it:
Of course he is.

At least Paige Conners got a trip to the Olympics out of it.
As well as her first Europeans and Worlds. Paige really impressed me with how well and quickly she learned pairs this season and she deserves a LOT of credit.
 
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