Pairs Discussion Thread 2017-18--"Two Skating as One"

[Amantide]

Great news. I bought the ticket for Pairs only, cause of Klibova. But I am happy these two pairs are going too.

 

[nimi]

Btw, does anybody know where's the fan thread for Sui/Han? I think there was one at some point but I can't seem to find it now...?

The only thing that momentarily dampened my joy for Aljona & Bruno was seeing Sui's eyes all puffy, but she's still young and I truly hope the worst of her injuries are behind her and that she is going to make it to Beijing where she has another chance to compete for gold, in front of the home crowd.

 

[s_parks]

Feck eurosport, feck Sky Italia and feck me idea to wait on Eurosport Poland and watch nothing.
I missed everything. I thought I was mistaken and maybe there was no FS today. After waiting for hours I fell asleep.

I guess I'm going to have to watch the replica now.

I just saw the result. Not surprised with T&M LP at all tbh. But wth happened with Sui&Han?

Han singled the first double toe, then Sui stepped out of the 3s. But the level 2 and 3 on the pairs spin and lift also cost them. Sui got 12 stitches before the olympics; that's why they weren't at 4cc as planned and skipped the team event.

 

[Xela M]

What a superb podium in the most perfect order. There could not have been a more fairy tale-like result. Not just S&M's win, but the whole podium.

T&M and their awful programme that has been overscored all season stood out like a sore thumb and I am so glad D&R were rewarded for their 4 remarkable skates at these Olympics. I gained a lot of respect for them

 

[chapis]

I am happy with the podium but poor Evgenia, she was so heartbroken in K&C.

 

[Xela M]

I am happy with the podium but poor Evgenia, she was so heartbroken in K&C.

I did feel very sorry for T&M, but in truth their FP had no place on that podium

 

[Anyasnake]

I did feel very sorry for T&M, but in truth their FP had no place on that podium

Truth is, they are contenders for Beijing 2022 and absolutely need new choreographers ASAP !

 

[Xela M]

I never thought I would find a pairs programme more beautiful than M&D's Liebestraum, but S&M's free programme at these Olympics has surpassed what I thought was pure perfection on ice.

 

[antmanb]

If/when Aliona retires, I would give her anything in the world for her to be T/M's personal life coach/stylist.

Aliona has only recently managed to get costuming and make up right. In the years with Robin she mostly came out a glowing shade of orange and was fairly hit and miss with costumes.

I don't understand what is so wrong with polka dots at all.

I am so over the moon for Savchenko/Massot, equally a little heart broken for Sui/Han. I don't really understand the sentiment that they will continue to Beijing and win. I'm sure the Chinese fed won't let them retire and they are fired up to continue, however, I fear that her body will not hold out for another four years. She's had a lot of injuries in the last few years and as much as I hope they can continue and win gold, I think it might require more than her body can cope with.

 

[clairecloutier]

I did feel very sorry for T&M, but in truth their FP had no place on that podium

I am sorry for Tarasova/Morozov's disappointment, but yes that program just had no place on an Olympic podium. It was that bad. As much as they lost due to technical mistakes, I do feel that the program contributed to the loss as well. Because I think somewhere deep inside, they knew they didn't have the package to compete with S/M or S/H in the LP.

Tarasova/Morozov can be a great pair in the future. But I feel like they need to go to the drawing board after this season and be very honest with themselves about where they need to improve. They need a total rethink of their artistic approach. And TBH they need to work much harder on their expression IMO. When you compare, for example, what Sui/Han or Savchenko/Massot give in their expression of their music, just through their facial expressions and small things like hand movements, they are so far beyond T/M. There are also still technical areas where they can improve, like in the quad twist and the lifts.

What I fear is that the inflated GOE/PCS that Tarasova/Morozov got this season could give them a sense of complacency, a sense that they don't need to work hard to improve, because they're already getting such high marks. After Europeans, Vladimir talked about how they were feeling really confident because they had a win there. I found that kind of interesting, because they actually didn't skate very well at Euros, so their confidence coming out of it (based on inflated marks) seemed a bit misplaced somehow.

 

[chapis]

These pictures https://twitter.com/magicaleggrolls/status/964031120827387906 . They are really great coaches

 

[skatesindreams]

I am sorry for Tarasova/Morozov's disappointment, but yes that program just had no place on an Olympic podium. It was that bad. As much as they lost due to technical mistakes, I do feel that the program contributed to the loss as well. Because I think somewhere deep inside, they knew they didn't have the package to compete with S/M or S/H in the LP.

Whomever believed that program to be Olympic-worthy did them a disservice.
It was an embarrassment.

 

[chapis]

Whomever believed that program to be Olympic-worthy did them a disservice.
It was an embarrassment.

And they still will have to skate THAT program for Worlds

 

[Anyasnake]

Whomever believed that program to be Olympic-worthy did them a disservice.
It was an embarrassment.

I think the worst has been avoided right ? It could have been a interational embarrassement, but people did not seem to care too much on TV ? because I don't want to this to end up as an internet joke

 

[snoopy]

Someone else mentioned candyman reminded them of G&P's 1994 rock and roll free dance and I had thought the same thing. Mozer might have been trying to make the same play - create a vibrant program that makes them stand out from the other teams.

 

[Seerek]

Han singled the first double toe, then Sui stepped out of the 3s. But the level 2 and 3 on the pairs spin and lift also cost them. Sui got 12 stitches before the olympics; that's why they weren't at 4cc as planned and skipped the team event.

Wonder what the general reaction would have been had S/H fallen on "right" side of the half point for the gold.

 

[Anyasnake]

Wonder what the general reaction would have been had S/H fallen on "right" side of the half point for the gold.

The thing is if you compare : S/H did a perfect SP, S/M popped one jump (Massot)
S/M did a perfect FS, S/H popped one jump (Han) and one turn on the Salchow (Sui)

So let's say S/H had one more mistake. Of course it's a bit useless doing it that way because of the BV of your elements, you could still win, however the perception game is strong : the one that win the FP is always the one you remember as the "rightful winner" in a way, because it's the last event. If they don't win you start asking questions : "Were they robbed ?" "Are they that much better ?".

But they could have definitely fallen on the other side. Truth is, it would have been fair. But reality : you want the cleanest LP to win. And if you know Aliona's story, it's even worst

 

[chapis]

Wonder what the general reaction would have been had S/H fallen on "right" side of the half point for the gold.

Probably the 99% of people would be complaining. I would be 1%

 

[snoopy]

I wouldn't have complained because S/H would have still lost the FP, and they would have won it in the SP. Which seems fair to me. This is one that could have gone either way so I see why Sui is heartbroken.

 

[MRani]

Probably the 99% of people would be complaining. I would be 1%

I wouldn’t have complained. I love them and they’re deserving Olympic champions. It was so close that it would’ve been fair either way, but it’s impossible not to be happy for Aliona and Bruno. Already praying for Sui’s ankles to last four more years and for them to take Olympic gold in Beijing, please!!!

I kind of wish S/H lost the gold by more than 0.43, perhaps a point or two instead but still ahead of D/R. That might’ve been easier to get over than being less than a point away in the end.

 

[antmanb]

I genuinely, honestly, do not understand the hysteria about how awful Candyman is.

It's not that bad. We've had more than a few programmes with random spliced music choices in the past, but I do understand that the music choices (besides Candyman) are a little random and it doesn't have a cohesive theme to pull it all together, but frankly outside of the podium and handful of other pairs (Marchei/Hotarek, James/Cipres in particular) most of the other pairs are skating through their music to complete the elements, and most don't have the talent to weave the incredibly difficult pairs elements in with a strong theme and choreography expression.

Tarasova/Morosov look like they're the fastest couple out on the ice with possibly the highest skating skills, with difficult transitions. I agree the choreography mark and interpretation should likely be lower.

Do they need a drastic change? I'm not so sure - look at their SP to Rachmaninov - I personally think that was really nice programme that was packaged well. If they're capable of that, then better music choices should surely sort that out.

 

[chapis]

I genuinely, honestly, do not understand the hysteria about how awful Candyman is.

It's not that bad. We've had more than a few programmes with random spliced music choices in the past, but I do understand that the music choices (besides Candyman) are a little random and it doesn't have a cohesive theme to pull it all together, but frankly outside of the podium and handful of other pairs (Marchei/Hotarek, James/Cipres in particular) most of the other pairs are skating through their music to complete the elements, and most don't have the talent to weave the incredibly difficult pairs elements in with a strong theme and choreography expression.

Tarasova/Morosov look like they're the fastest couple out on the ice with possibly the highest skating skills, with difficult transitions. I agree the choreography mark and interpretation should likely be lower.

Do they need a drastic change? I'm not so sure - look at their SP to Rachmaninov - I personally think that was really nice programme that was packaged well. If they're capable of that, then better music choices should surely sort that out.

My problem is not so much the program or the music, but the program does not fit them at all. Probably it would be a good program for S/M or Valentina/Ondrej.

 

[antmanb]

My problem is not so much the program or the music, but the program does not fit them at all. Probably it would be a good program for S/M or Valentina/Ondrej.

I agree with you completely about that - when S&M went back to last year's SP I thought it exposed T&M's LP as lacking. But as unsuited as it is I don't understand the point of piling on them and declaring the programme "unolympic" or unworthy and other hyperbole and BS.

It's not a good choice of programme for them, but they're still a top pair and I don't think they need to scorch and salt the earth and start again from scratch like some of the hysterical comments I've read suggest.

 

[Lizziebeth]

I love T/M's short program, the music showcases their power and unison. I think T/M wanted to demonstrate that they are capable of skating to a different kind of music so they chose the Candyman music. I regard this as a "miss" because they really are not the kind of skaters that would have fun with that music. Nothing wrong with that but it did them no favors this year. They did not seem comfortable with that music - it really was not them. I still think of T/M as skaters seeking a great program because they really are wonderful - especially her. I have hopes that they will come up with a signature program next year and then they would be tough to beat.

This was one of the best pairs events ever - so many great teams and programs!

 

[Quadjump]

Wonder what the general reaction would have been had S/H fallen on "right" side of the half point for the gold.

I am even afraid to think about it.

The judges were on the Chinese side but the technical panel saved the Gold for the best programme

 

[judgejudy27]

It will be interesting to see what happens to various teams from here.

Duhamel & Radford- Have made it clear they are done, and not even going to Worlds. And what a way to cap their amazing career full of world titles and technical firsts with an Olympic Gold and individual Olympic career.

Savchenko & Massot- It seems they might continue another couple years, but probably not to the next Olympics. And that is actually depends more on Massot's back than Aliona's age. They could still get a Worlds and European title(s). It seems unlikely they go for 2022 now that Aliona met her goal though.

Sui & Han- They will try hard to hang on for 2022 and if they can they probably have a great shot of winning on home ice, especialy with the biased home country scoring we typically see (anyone remember Sochi, lol). I know there are some doubts with her injury history but I think she has a good shot to make it. She is a real fighter and the worst of their injuries seem behind them.

Tarasova & Morozov- They are definitely going for 2022 and maybe beyond. I know alot dont like them but they are likely future World and/or Olympic Champions, possibly multiple, and will be one of the major contenders going forward. I think you will see some better choreography soon, I am sure they will take the criticsms they got this year to heart.

Della Monica & Guarise- I hope they continue as I think they are really starting to improve by leaps and bounds the last 2 years, and it has taken them a long time to get to this point, and they can still getting better. They have a good shot to win a Europeans medals atleast, so should stay in for that anyway.

Marchei & Hotarek- I am not sure what their future plans are, but it was great to see them have an amazing Olympics. I think they might continue awhile, but less likely to than their teammates. I take back my previous comment about them not having their own style, their free program was my favorite last night.

Yu & Zhang- Ugh, Chinese fed. seems determined to keep pushing He Zhang on us, but I dont really see much future for them. She isnt any better a jumper than Peng, so the switch doesnt even make sense and just ruined a promising young team who the Chinese fed. never gave a chance. They arent even a good match, and He Zhang is so slow, old, less technically consistent himself than before, devoid of any style and on ice personality at this point, and just needs to retire already. They might plod on for 2022 but wont be winning any medals, even if Sui & Han retire and they become Chinese #1.

Peng & Jin- Sad for them here, but I think they will continue for 2022 for sure, but who knows if they will get any support from the federation as Chinese #3. I think Yu & Jin would have done better than either of these new teams.

Sequin & Bilodeau- If she can stay healthy I think they have real potential to develop into medal contenders.

Moore-Towers & Marinaro- I think they will continue, they really came into their own this year. I am not sure they will ever reach the world ranking Moore-Towers & Moscovitch once held though.

Knierims- I think they are planning to continue. I hope so, as I think they still have more potential.

Stolbova & Klimov- Mozer says they are done after Worlds. I hope they reconsider. They still have more to give and achieve IMO. It would be a shame if their career ended on a bit of a down note and mostly an erratic quad for them with few high points.

 

[nimi]

Stolbova & Klimov- Mozer says they are done after Worlds. I hope they reconsider. They still have more to give and achieve IMO. It would be a shame if their career ended on a bit of a down note and mostly an erratic quad for them with few high points.

Well, about that... There's this: http://fs-gossips.com/ksenia-stolbova-we-didnt-make-any-decisions-about-retirement/

But first Fedor Klimov told that he didn’t make any deсiіions about finishing of the career. Then Ksenia also made a pretty harsh comment:

Since Monday we are preparing for the World Championships, we did not make any decisions about retirement, and there were no conversations on this topic. But it’s better to ask (Maxim) Trankov about this, he knows better about our plans.

 

[Amy L]

BURN! I love Ksenia.

 

[Amy L]

Did anyone catch the interview with Katia Gordeeva? Was it on the regular NBC broadcast?

It was on Olympic ice before the pairs LP. If you can get access to the NBC Olympics site, it's towards the end of the program. I just watched it, and I was I expected Scott to cry, not just because he's (over)emotional anyway, but he was actually there when it happened. Tanith was crying and even random sportscaster guy was emotional. No matter how many times the story gets rehashed in the past 23 years, I will every time.

And, personal story, my father died suddenly of a heart attack this past Thanksgiving. We all had a nice dinner and everything was pleasant without any typical family drama. We were all happy and had a good time, nothing was amiss. 8 hours later, my mom is calling me, hysterical. A 70 year old man dying out of the blue is not as shocking as a 28-year old Olympic athlete, but it's another reminder that you just really have to live your life trying to grab as much happiness as you can. There's no guarantee about anything in life, everything can be snatched away for no reason. I never mentioned it here because it's so personal to me, but I couldn't help but share it now. I should have learned this lesson from Sergei, and I should have learned this from my father especially. It's something I'm still struggling with, but those few minutes of the Olympics Ice fluff piece has me

 

[DannyCurry]

My thoughts on the podium : the placement was right.
Sachenko & Massot : Legendary Aliona & hottie Bruno. Although the LP is packed with transitions, choreographically challenging and building nicely, I still don't like all the jumping elements in the first half. Still, incredible performance and they won fair and square overall. Unbelievably amazing achievement for both of them, but "all hail to the queen" first.

Sui & Han : At this stage I don't think I'm a fan yet, but they were my favorites and I was rooting for them for this competition. Unfortunately, I didn't like either their SP or FP this season. I do love the opening seconds of their Turandot and the mood they create at the beginning but that's it. Costly mistakes and as hard it is for me to admit, I believe that, had they won the gold, it would have been a tainted victory (but I didn't check why their pairs spin was only level 2). It was heartbraking to see Sui so disappointed. My first wish for them is to avoid injuries in the future. Of course an OGM in 2022 would be wonderful.

Duhamel & Radford : A looong time ago, I really liked this team. When they won their World titles, I was already no longer into their programs. Last night's performance was impressive though. Great quad salchow, sheer determination and Meagan's beaming smile after she landed the second throw was contagious. I'm really happy for them and I agree with their 2nd place in the free.

Tarasova & Morozov : I love their SS but this LP of theirs is quite awful. I agree, it doesn't suit them at all. When they skate perfectly, they pull it off but it's still not their style. So when the performance is not good, it just feels all wrong. Oddly though, if I were to pick a team who would dominate in the next cycle, I think it would be them. (I must have ignored their inability to show consistency or exciting LP and I've probably been blinded by their speed, lines and skating skills when they're on). So much potential, once they get both a SP and a free skate that suit them, they'll be hard to beat IMO.

James & Ciprès : My second favorites, I love them. I loved her outfit in the LP. The mistakes were unfortunate but I would have placed them higher than T/M in the free.

Overall a dream podium.
And yet, I think I'll stop watching live though, because everytime I do so, my favorites don't win.