U.S. Pairs 2017 - News & Updates, Part VII

[avivadawn]

I'm trying to figure out (someone? anyone? help me?) have there been any US Pairs on the Senior Level that paired up as young ones (say, younger than 10 or 11) stayed together until they were Seniors and were NOT related and whose names were not Tai and Randy?

I'm wondering about McLaughlin and Brubaker, since they skated together as Juniors, but I'm not sure when they paired up.

 

[Chemistry66]

I'm trying to figure out (someone? anyone? help me?) have there been any US Pairs on the Senior Level that paired up as young ones (say, younger than 10 or 11) stayed together until they were Seniors and were NOT related and whose names were not Tai and Randy?

I'm wondering about McLaughlin and Brubaker, since they skated together as Juniors, but I'm not sure when they paired up.

McLaughlin/Brubaker teamed up in May 2006, just a few months before their stellar Junior season.

 

[rfisher]

Why is there an assumption that somehow Castelli/Tran or Cain/LeDuc could have done better here? Beyond the Knierims, the US teams are not that competitive, period. Marissa and Mervin scored below the lowest qualifying score at both their GPs, and Cain/LeDuc's PB is 62 - just on the cusp (and they scored in the 50s in their other events). One team has always been inconsistent; the other is brand new - not exactly a recipe fire success at worlds. Focusing on whether Denney was injured or not is beside the point. No one is saying these USA teams are not talented but they are certainly less skilled than the current international field. Whether that's talent or coaching or development, who knows but that's the reality right now.

And countries that are not the usual pair power houses are moving up quickly. The young Czechs, the brand new Australian team (which goes to show you can skate well without being together for 20 years), the North Korean team (who knew!). And others have steadily improved: James/Cipres, Della Monica/Guirese, Marchai/Hoterek,... teams skated their personal bests and didn't make the automatic berths (Austria). They are as "entitled" as some think the US is.

I do hope this set back doesn't deter the developing coaching program for Rockne and Stefania, but rather makes them determined to succeed next year.

 

[gkelly]

I'm trying to figure out (someone? anyone? help me?) have there been any US Pairs on the Senior Level that paired up as young ones (say, younger than 10 or 11) stayed together until they were Seniors and were NOT related and whose names were not Tai and Randy?

Vlandis/Guzman come to mind, but I think they only skated one year together as seniors.

 

[overedge]

Pretty much every skating discipline in the US has managed to rebuild since 1961, despite losing very promising skaters and coaches, and has done quite well since then. And if we're talking about pairs, pairs coaches like John Nicks came to the US after the losses of 1961, and have produced some very strong competitors. So I don't think the current state of US pairs can be blamed on the loss of skaters and coaches more than 50 years ago.

 

[Spareoom]

I think it's pretty unfortunate how everything turned out, but given that US pairs hasn't been the most internationally competitive in the last few years and there were injuries, I think they did the best they could. And they still have two spots for Worlds, right? Because it's way easier to keep those two spots at Worlds than it is to try and get two from one. So that's at least something.

If there's any sort of silver lining out of this, I think it will be that it will make US pairs fight tooth and nail for that one spot, and that in turn will raise the overall competitiveness of their skating...competition breeds success, and nobody is going to be sitting back and playing it safe next season. They will treat every competition with the utmost seriousness and I hope that can translate into better results. Who knows, maybe this is the kick in the pants US pairs needs.

 

[rfisher]

I think it's pretty unfortunate how everything turned out, but given that US pairs hasn't been the most internationally competitive in the last few years and there were injuries, I think they did the best they could. And they still have two spots for Worlds, right? Because it's way easier to keep those two spots at Worlds than it is to try and get two from one. So that's at least something.

If there's any sort of silver lining out of this, I think it will be that it will make US pairs fight tooth and nail for that one spot, and that in turn will raise the overall competitiveness of their skating...competition breeds success, and nobody is going to be sitting back and playing it safe next season. They will treat every competition with the utmost seriousness and I hope that can translate into better results. Who knows, maybe this is the kick in the pants US pairs needs.

Look what internal competition has done for Russian women. They know they'd better skate their best every time or they won't make it to the next Euro or World's team.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Where is this coming from? Had D/F made the free skate, they still would have qualified their first spot LATER than the French and Italians.

Again, we don't know what "later" means, when there is more than one skater involved, because the ISU hasn't defined it. It could mean a higher point total.

 

[wickedwitch]

If there's any sort of silver lining out of this, I think it will be that it will make US pairs fight tooth and nail for that one spot, and that in turn will raise the overall competitiveness of their skating...competition breeds success, and nobody is going to be sitting back and playing it safe next season.

I think that spot's S-K/K's if they're healthy. The US needs them for the team competition, because nobody else is remotely reliable.

But they can fight for that second slot at worlds.

 

[aftershocks]

Reality check: the US will have at least one skater in every single discipline at Olympics and Worlds. That's not a "disaster". There are plenty of other countries that would love to be in that situation.

Oh eh, yeah sure all you Canadians. You guys can bask in the probability of Canada battling strongly for team gold at the Olympics and likely having 3 spots for Canadian ladies (a previously unheard of occurrence, at least in recent times and probably for quite awhile). You def will have 3 spots for pairs, and likely at least two for men (maybe a third), and def 3 for ice dance. Look, I'm happy for you guys. And I enjoy and root for many Canadian skaters. But please stop telling U.S. fans how to think and what we should be happy about. The U.S. has historically been strong in figure skating generally, but sure sh*t happens. We certainly don't need you telling us to suck it up @overedge, because "other countries would love to be in that situation." But I'm sure you aren't meaning to be so condescending. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure everyone really reads posts before having their say. I've been trying to bring some history into the picture for perspective. However, go ahead and continue being condescending and distracting, instead of trying to have a meaningful discussion.

Things go in cycles, but for a long while U.S. fed has paid not much attention to actually developing any of their disciplines as a matter of fact. They seem to think that most things will work out on their own. U.S. fed is certainly not responsible for the excellence we now have in ice dance. That is just a lucky happenstance for the most part, and it's majorly due to Russian coaches coming to the U.S. to train talented young athletes. It's interesting that it happened in ice dance. The odds of it happening in pairs is rather slim, since Russia has dominated in pairs for so long, and even though their focus on improving singles has seemed to hurt their ice dance a lot and their pairs slightly, Russian pairs still have a high quality that often gets over-credited. Some of their young pairs teams actually need more experience and seasoning before being given such high scores, at least IMO.

Pretty much every skating discipline in the US has managed to rebuild since 1961, despite losing very promising skaters and coaches, and has done quite well since then. And if we're talking about pairs, pairs coaches like John Nicks came to the US after the losses of 1961, and have produced some very strong competitors. So I don't think the current state of US pairs can be blamed on the loss of skaters and coaches more than 50 years ago.

I already brought that up and pointed that out. What are you trying to do? Tag on to what I've already said? Or are you refuting what I said in a backhanded way? Who are you talking to?

If you are referring to my previous post, then you are not understanding what I'm talking about, and you are detracting from the conversation by repeating what I said and then reinterpreting it erroneously. Please stop. Nowhere did I blame the current state of affairs on what happened in 1961.

 

[ioana]

Moving some of the discussion from the Worlds thread here

I think it's a coaching issue. Aliona throughout her career has had amazing coaches who gave her great basics. So she can have a Junior World title with one partner, World titles and Olympic medals with another, and world medals with a third.

Seems to me a lot of the US problems in a lot of disciplines besides dance is not necessarily strong basics. Sure in some individual skaters but system that focuses on basics.

And it is also an art of putting the right partners together.

Aliona might be a slight anomaly in terms of talent and longevity. That said, starting early definitely helps. Learning to work on unison and partnering skills from good coaches is a plus and having correct technique on lifts and throws even more so. Both Aliona and Tatiana Volosozhar were working on pairs from a really young age. Both started out with Galina Kukhar and yes their basics are amazing. There are plenty of good pairs coaches in the US as well. Unfortunately, pairs doesn't really get that kind of attention and most of the time you have a former singles skater switching over once they can't make it, either to Nationals or when it comes to getting international assignments. Sometimes you get really good skaters like Deedee Leng just to name one; other times they won't really really have the best skating skills or ability to land jumps from the speed required to be competitive internationally.

I think having training centers that focus on pairs would help, both in terms of coaching expertise and making it easier to find a well-matched partner. That is one big advantage centralized training system have. Finding the right partner is much easier when everyone knows the available options. The one that Carrie Wall and Bobby Martin have in Massachusetts is a nice addition to the Colorado program that Dalilah's had for years. Maybe having one more on the West coast would finally get enough of the country covered to help with finding partners. The Champs camps that helped put together Ashley Cain and Tim Leduc is also a very good idea. Will see if having all these things will help over the next 4 years when it comes to producing a stronger pairs program overall.

 

[becca]

Moving some of the discussion from the Worlds thread here



Aliona might be a slight anomaly in terms of talent and longevity. That said, starting early definitely helps. Learning to work on unison and partnering skills from good coaches is a plus and having correct technique on lifts and throws even more so. Both Aliona and Tatiana Volosozhar were working on pairs from a really young age. Both started out with Galina Kukhar and yes their basics are amazing. There are plenty of good pairs coaches in the US as well. Unfortunately, pairs doesn't really get that kind of attention and most of the time you have a former singles skater switching over once they can't make it, either to Nationals or when it comes to getting international assignments. Sometimes you get really good skaters like Deedee Leng just to name one; other times they won't really really have the best skating skills or ability to land jumps from the speed required to be competitive internationally.

I think having training centers that focus on pairs would help, both in terms of coaching expertise and making it easier to find a well-matched partner. That is one big advantage centralized training system have. Finding the right partner is much easier when everyone knows the available options. The one that Carrie Wall and Bobby Martin have in Massachusetts is a nice addition to the Colorado program that Dalilah's had for years. Maybe having one more on the West coast would finally get enough of the country covered to help with finding partners. The Champs camps that helped put together Ashley Cain and Tim Leduc is also a very good idea. Will see if having all these things will help over the next 4 years when it comes to producing a stronger pairs program overall.

Obviously most skaters don't have her longevity but the point I am making is one of good basics. Translating to good teams.

I am sure there are coaches that are good but are they getting the skaters when they are young.

And I don't think we have truly seen good results for a very long time for US pairs skating there is nothing new about this.

 

[aftershocks]

Why is there an assumption that somehow Castelli/Tran or Cain/LeDuc could have done better here? Beyond the Knierims, the US teams are not that competitive, period. Marissa and Mervin scored below the lowest qualifying score at both their GPs, and Cain/LeDuc's PB is 62 - just on the cusp (and they scored in the 50s in their other events). One team has always been inconsistent; the other is brand new - not exactly a recipe fire success at worlds. Focusing on whether Denney was injured or not is beside the point. No one is saying these USA teams are not talented but they are certainly less skilled than the current international field. Whether that's talent or coaching or development, who knows but that's the reality right now.

There was no assumption they would do better if you actually read my post and actually understood it. Apparently you did neither. Marissa/Mervin are stylistically competitive with any team in the world, but they are not as competitive with their jumps. That is the issue they are having trouble with and it obviously either is not being addressed at all, or it's not being addressed successfully. As I said earlier, Mervin is Canadian and it will take time for him to gain U.S. citizenship. But the bigger problem is going to be gaining more jump difficulty, consistency and mastery for this team. Unfortunately, as I already said, despite the fact they are being coached by excellent Canadian coaches, they clearly are not the top priority.

It is not beside the point that Haven was seriously injured and she had to relearn how to walk before relearning her jumps. That has dogged D/F all season long, and their confidence has been affected. And that definitely should have been taken into consideration by U.S. fed and it was not. Whether or not Marissa/Merv or Cain/LeDuc would have competed slightly better against the tough field and the restrictive cut is certainly debatable. But at least both those teams were actually physically healthy, which is saying something! And get this @oleada: You can sit there and keep telling yourself that U.S. teams "are less skilled than the current international field." If that makes you feel superior and condescending, keep at it. Haven/Brandon are definitely better than some of the teams they fell behind. And they are as skilled as many teams in the second tier. They simply need time to fully recover from the injury setback and regain their confidence. They did not win Junior Worlds because they are "less skilled" than any current or past international field! You don't have to like me or what I say. But don't allow that to keep you from being honest about the reality. Yes, U.S. teams have problems in a number of areas, and they are behind in a number of areas. But do not tell me that Italy's Guarise/Della Monica were not helped in their development by being able to compete at Worlds every year. They are no more skilled or better talented than any U.S. pair team. In fact, they were worse than quite a few, until they had the chance to improve by attending Worlds every year. And that goes for every other second and third tier international team.

 

[wickedwitch]

Funnily, I don't remember @aftershocks (or anyone else) saying they should replace D/F before worlds. Saying so now with the benefit of hindsight is completely disingenuous.

 

[ioana]

Obviously most skaters don't have her longevity but the point I am making is one of good basics. Translating to good teams.

I am sure there are coaches that are good but are they getting the skaters when they are young.

And I don't think we have truly seen good results for a very long time for US pairs skating there is nothing new about this.

Good basics taught differently could lead to great individual skating skills that might not work well together, i.e. timing of turns not being the same, doing spin entries differently and having different acceleration points. Completely agree that not having them would lead to bad results, but they're unfortunately not a guarantee for future success as a team. If you look at Matteo Guarise's early outings his basics were -at best- competent. Which was to be expected given he started out doing roller skating not figure skating. Seeing how far along he's come is a good success story. You can work on them even later on and improve.

The issue with US pairs hasn't really been a complete lack of good results, IMO. Y/C finished 6th at Worlds back in '08 and S/K (back then) finished 7th in 2016. From my end, lack of consistency is an even bigger issue. And something that should get better once there is more depth at Nationals. That's why I think pairs training centers would help. How much remains to be seen in the next few years.

 

[Yazmeen]

Um, aftershocks, I guess you won't be visiting Canada soon, will you?

Lucky Canadians...

 

[cheremary]

I'm trying to figure out (someone? anyone? help me?) have there been any US Pairs on the Senior Level that paired up as young ones (say, younger than 10 or 11) stayed together until they were Seniors and were NOT related and whose names were not Tai and Randy?

I'm wondering about McLaughlin and Brubaker, since they skated together as Juniors, but I'm not sure when they paired up.

I believe Denney/Frazier actually did, if you count their roller skating partnership, which apparently began in 2002 when she was 7 and he was 10. According to Wikipedia, they split up for a few years when their families were living in different states and competed with other partners, but then re-formed their partnership afterward.

There was a quote from Brandon during Haven's injury last year that his skating career began and would end with her, which I thought was a really lovely sentiment (and quite a rarity among American pairs).

 

[aftershocks]

Funnily, I don't remember @aftershocks (or anyone else) saying they should replace D/F before worlds. Saying so now with the benefit of hindsight is completely disingenuous.

In your opinion, to which you are entitled. However, first of all, I didn't say here in hindsight that I thought immediately after Nationals D/F should be replaced for Worlds. I said that I was worried about how Haven was actually doing physically and whether or not she would be able to compete effectively since she clearly was having trouble landing her jumps, and it was affecting their confidence as a team. After Nationals, I tried to put aside my worries and hope for the best. There was so much going on about Gracie, and fans understandably pitching a fit over U.S. fed's team selection decisions. So there was a lot to digest, and enough fodder to post about.

Like everyone who is a true fan of U.S. pairs teams I wanted to believe that D/F would be okay. But I did have some niggling doubts simply because both teams were questionable physically. And I never truly believed that Chris was going to magically suddenly be able to land his sbs jumps perfectly. Just because I say that now and not then does not mean I'm being disingenuous. I did not want to jinx our teams, but I was worried, especially after 4CCs.

It was in hindsight here in this thread that I offered possible solutions, one of them being U.S. fed sitting down to talk straightforwardly with the athletes and their coaches and getting feedback from everyone. I also suggested the viability of not sending Haven/Brandon to 4CCs in order for her physical fitness to be fully assessed. And I wondered aloud about how C/T or C/L might have fared at Worlds, and clearly that would have been another throwing of the dice since C/T have not shown any consistency on their jumping passes, and C/L are a new team without a lot of major competitive experience under their belts.

But let's be honest, Alexa/Chris have never shown consistency on their sbs jumps either, even though they haven't looked quite as bad as C/T in that aspect. In their favor, Alexa/Chris do have other competitive strengths and are favored by U.S. fed in addition to being well regarded by international judges. The problem is about how strong they could be coming back from Alexa's two surgeries. Add to that the question of Haven's fitness.

Clearly U.S. fed was in a difficult situation through some bad luck with newly formed teams still developing and top veteran teams suffering from illness and injury. Plus the fact U.S. fed had let things slide along for far too long doing absolutely nothing to stem the tide of constant partner switching, and the areas of ongoing weakness among most of their pairs teams. Ad they still did not adequately assess the difficulties of the World team selection process and openly try to determine possible alternatives way way ahead of time, instead of at the last minute rushing Cain/LeDuc to Helsinki as an emergency sub, apparently for the wrong team.

Furthermore, I've posted a lot on FSU since U.S. Nationals and I may even have made some reference to my reservations about Haven/Brandon. But even if I didn't voice how I was feeling publicly on FSU, I defy you to tell me that I am being disingenuous because everything must be posted on FSU beforehand, or everything said after an event with the benefit of hindsight is disingenuous. There's a lot I have been thinking about and not sharing publicly. And I'll bet that's true for all the teams and U.S. fed as well. Everyone was likely hoping for the best and making assumptions that surely these two teams could hold onto two spots. Even a lot of fans on FSU were claiming the Australians would probably not make the cut. I actually always thought they would. But I did not take the North Korean team into account. Still, it is up to U.S. fed to do a better job. But it's not a surprise that they don't. And this isn't the first time, nor likely will it be the last that they go about things in a way that simply does not help their athletes in either the short term or the long term.

All the smart asses on here who enjoy pushing back can feel the way you feel and say what you will, instead of making any attempt to be thoughtful and reflective. I appreciate everyone who is seriously having a conversation here and offering something of value. The rest of you can go ahead and continue trying to distract and hijack the thread. I'm personally not that easily intimidated by other posters trying to tell me what to think, how to feel, and how to behave.

 

[Yazmeen]

I appreciate everyone who is seriously having a conversation here and offering something of value. The rest of you can go ahead and continue trying to distract and hijack the thread. I'm personally not that easily intimidated by other posters trying to tell me what to think, how to feel, and how to behave.

Um, pot, kettle, black, when it comes to "hijacking the thread." It took me considerably longer just to delete your usual encyclopedic rant down to these few sentences than it did to read an entire page of actual, serious posts in this thread...

Not that you EVER tell anyone how to think, feel, or behave...

 

[Jammers]

What a slap in the face for the US getting two spots for Worlds but not the Olympics. That is just nonsense.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

OH, LOL..I dont even know where to begin..

First, pairs became MY FAVORITE discipline maybe 8 years ago as it had always been women.

Things that are strange for me. I love Scimerim. Everyone knows it. But Alexa was the sick/ill/operated on and she carried the team... sigh.. I know Chris has the Power to launch her into a 4 twist..but he was the lesser of the two and it was her who should have been. He wasnt really clean in any jumps at Worlds or 4CC .... I have no idea why he wont improve them.

Alexa and Chris said 3 days ago in a teleconference that she WOULD do the 4 twist but thought the 1.5 to 2 points wasnt worth it.. It woulda been worth it I think.. That was one of the lowest scoring twists they've had... They said they were gonna do a level 4 3twist but they got level 3s....

8 points for their twist??? They've done twists that were 10.30 + points and were ALSO the highest scoring element of the entire competition amongst all teams before...

Looking at protocols Scimerim's tech score was higher than the top 2 Canadians (very slightly) except Seguin & Bilodeau. Their PCS scores are rather LOW compare to the others.. I will say their choreo has always been VERY/RATHER basic and they need to go outside of their comfort zone to improve that. Delilah and Marcotte arent going to give them a fresh new look ever. Ask James & Cipres, ask Angela Nikodinov for advice on that!!

GOOD NEWS for me: Pairs has become SO EXCITING, so DEEP..so much competition..it is so DAMN exciting.. ISU needs to CHANGE alongside the sport... More pairs, more teams with quality then grow along side with the sport. There is no way that the Aussie and Czech teams should be fighting for a spot come September.

20 teams should have been allowed to compete in the free... they've spent the money, the costumes are made, theyve been flown in, expenses have been paid for travel/lodging, theyve rehearsed programs for 6 months... sigh....

Its hard to go off on Denney & Frazier. They have only gone downhill since Skate America. Her injury is preventing their technical score from rising. I remember saying after Nationals Scimerim could have won with a very watered down program anyway.

As far as Canada goes they have always had a rich culture in pairs skating. USA has always been individualistic. It wasnt until Ice Dancing recently you see couples doing well in USA. USA culture was always individual..ladies, mens.. Canada just now went deep in ladies... USA ladies has had MANY times had multiple ladies in top 3, top 5, etc... Sometimes our entire ladies team in top 6.

Anywhooooo will be rather strange for me to watch Nationals in Jan knowing only 1 team will go to Olys... I dont ever remember that happening... I hope it doesnt discourage any pairs from competing and continuing!!!!!

 

[Marco]

That's why all along I do not like the per country rule. Skaters should qualify for themselves, not for their countries. 2 pairs from country A finishing 9th and 30th can send both to the Olympics, whereas 2 pairs finishing 13th and 14th can only send one.

Anyway I feel for Cain & LeDuc and Stellato & Batholomay.

 

[becca]

What a slap in the face for the US getting two spots for Worlds but not the Olympics. That is just nonsense.

Lots of people qualify for worlds and not Olympics.

 

[her grace]

I'm very impressed with Scimeca-Knierim/Knierim's courage at Worlds. I had thought they should not go to worlds so as to not rush their recovery and didn't think they could be ready. After 4CC, it was clear that they were still the best the U.S. has to offer, and wow, if they had rested to save themselves for the Olympic season, the U.S. wouldn't even have an Olympic spot!

I'm also very impressed with the level of pair skating throughout the world. The standard at worlds was phenomenal--I hope the other American teams can make strides forward--otherwise, the U.S. may be in quite a fight to earn two spots at worlds for the foreseeable future.

Zimmerman has worked wonders with James/Cipres, and Denney/Frazier were at their peak with him. Perhaps some of the American teams should consider switching coaches.

 

[aftershocks]

Um, pot, kettle, black, when it comes to "hijacking the thread." It took me considerably longer just to delete your usual encyclopedic rant down to these few sentences than it did to read an entire page of actual, serious posts in this thread...

Not that you EVER tell anyone how to think, feel, or behave...

Wow, you really don't have to try hard do you @Yazmeen? Just because I have strong opinions and I'm not afraid to voice them, does NOT mean I'm telling everyone else how to think, feel and behave. If you read my posts and you are swayed in any way (whatever way that happens to be), that's completely on you. I'm only sharing what I feel. And if I'm doing that in a way you don't like, so be it. Certainly doesn't mean I'm telling you what to think. I agree in essence with one of your previous posts, but I differ a little in how I look at some of what you said. Plus you were seemingly angry at me in that post because of what I said about D/F vs I/M at Skate Canada. ETA: And I definitely differ from you about totally dissing Haven/Brandon as you did in your post. Although apparently you seem to know more than I do about how D/F's coaching and training has gone since Haven's surgery. Its interesting what you had to say. Apparently you are relegating D/F to the scrap heap:

As for Denney and Frazier, I know there was injury there, too. But they bombed. Period. And a combination of bad coaching decisions and not enough work on elements afterh her return helped doom them, plus the fact is they will never have either the technique or the plain pizazz as a top team; frankly, IMO, I'd rather watch paint dry. They were frankly the most embarassing US Pairs Champions in history at a World Championship. And there's a lot blame for that to go around, not just on them.

Oh well, so it goes. I love both I/M and S/B. And I'm very fond of D/F. I don't think D/F at this point are better than I/M, but they were definitely competitive with them at Skate Canada. Since then, I/M has pulled things together better. D/F have been hampered in their ongoing development by her injury and their coaching switches.

It seems to me you are taking offense that I spoke about smart asses pushing back. Believe me, I do not consider you as one of the smart asses hijacking this thread. But if you think I am, so be it.

In any case, just because I'm ranting and you don't like what I'm saying or how I'm saying it, why are you getting so upset? Are you guys carrying some dislike over from past thread topics? Oh boy. Well, I do not apologize for having strong feelings and strong opinions. You can think differently. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds.

In fact, since I'm posting free form as thoughts come to me, I haven't got to all of the points I'm trying to make. If you do not wish to engage with me, you don't have to. It's as simple as that. I think that quite a few of you as usual simply see red instead of actually taking into account everything I'm saying, because you absolutely either dislike me (someone you don't know), or you dislike the way I express myself. So be it. I'm not trying to suck up to anyone here. And of course, apparently a lot of Canadians are upset with me for some of my thoughts. Nevermind that I'm happy for them and I root for many of their athletes.

Oh, and go ahead and think that my posts aren't serious, while at the same time decrying that I try to make people think and feel the way I do. I'll bet that quite a few people with interesting thoughts and varying opinions decide not to even post, because of how there's often push back for any outlier thinking, strong opinions that ruffle feathers, and honest rants.

 

[oleada]

@aftershocks I'm not saying the US pairs are less skilled; their scores are. And I'm not the one acting condescending and superior here. Since you've written yet another War and Peace tome, and taken over yet another thread with your endless ramblings, I'm backing out. Have fun talking to yourself.

 

[aftershocks]

Goodbye @oleada. Enjoy the rest of Worlds.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

That's why all along I do not like the per country rule. Skaters should qualify for themselves, not for their countries.

I AGREE! This whole country thing is antiquated...

and even more so is the fact that a Ukranian and a Frenchmen compete for a country called Germany. LOL.. Makes no sense anyway.. so just let people be people...

 

[skatingguy]

The problem is that in order to have the athletes really control their own destiny it would mean eliminating the power that the federations have at the ISU - which they would have to vote for. It's like Congress voting for term limits or pay cuts - isn't going to happen. I would like a system where the skaters who qualify for the Grand Prix Final get tickets to Worlds - regardless of how many per country. Than use the European and 4 Continents events to fill out the rest of the field.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

The problem is that in order to have the athletes really control their own destiny it would mean eliminating the power that the federations have at the ISU - which they would have to vote for. It's like Congress voting for term limits or pay cuts - isn't going to happen. I would like a system where the skaters who qualify for the Grand Prix Final get tickets to Worlds - regardless of how many per country. Than use the European and 4 Continents events to fill out the rest of the field.

thats pretty good.... and makes sense..

Because say Team Norway secured 2 teams for pairs for the following worlds (12 months from now) say then one team retires and their next best team is out with injuries... no sense them keeping those spots from results that were determined 12 months ago....

The coveted spots should be given to those who performed the best NOW. not from some results from one competition 12 months prior.

LIKE NOW Germany has 2 berths.. do WE REALLY need to see their other team who didnt qualify to the free this year, who wont get GP assignments and wont medal at any B comps? Im only even saying that because of the very limited number of spots for worlds / Olys.

Lets be real..germany doesnt even really have a second team.. AND ALSO..what if their second team never ends up getting the mimimum TECH scores... then what happens to that second berth???