UPDATED: Guilty verdict in Bill Cosby Case (threads merged)

[MacMadame]

ETA: "Legally blind" means his sight is 20-200 or worse. He most likely already has eyeglasses that will be allowed to bring with him to prison.

It means his *corrected* vision is 20/200 or worse. So that’s after glasses and/or contacts are used.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=10614

Basically it means, even with glasses and/or contacts, the world is very, very fuzzy. But you can walk around without bumping into things and even recognize objects if they aren’t too far away. Mostly you can’t read a book or drive (though I knew someone who is legally blind in one eye who managed to scam a driver’s license — and was miffed I wouldn’t be a passenger in her car).

 

[skatesindreams]

How do we respond when someone who was ingrained in our culture, falls?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/opin...ilemma-of-bill-cosbys-fall-seymour/index.html

 

[Japanfan]

How do we respond when someone who was ingrained in our culture, falls?
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/opin...ilemma-of-bill-cosbys-fall-seymour/index.html

Try not to be too easily charmed by people. And talk to men about what constitutes 'sexual harassment/assault/rape' and what 'consent' means. If you have sons, or other boys/young men in your life, teach them to respect women as persons.

 

[Lacey]

I am not a lawyer, but I believe, at least in Pennsylvania, when one is given a sentence of 10 years, usually if the prisoner has exhibited good behavior it has been traditional to apply to serve half of that, so 5. This 3-10, therefore, seems to put a lesser minimum option there.

 

[DreamSkates]

One of the main things that frosted me was how did Cosby seemingly suddenly go from a guy who "healthy" enough to do standup to a doddering old man who is "blind" and requires the support of others on his arm to even walk into the courtroom? He's putting on quite the frailty show these days. And his attorney is now pushing the "worried about his health" line after the mistrial. I realized he's aged and it's been stated he is legally blind, but this is beginning to look like quite an act on his part.

It doesn't matter if he cannot see well or is unhealthy. The verdict determines the punishment. If there is a mistrial, then so be it. At least now, hopefully, women will not wait so long to go to the police. That makes a significant difference.

 

[PeterG]

At least now, hopefully, women will not wait so long to go to the police. That makes a significant difference.

At least now, hopefully, men will stop raping and harassing and drugging and sexually assaulting and judging and groping women, etc., etc. - and stop giving women any reason to go to police, to their employer, to their counsellors, to their school authority, etc., etc.

That would make a significant difference.

 

[AxelAnnie]

At least now, hopefully, men will stop raping and harassing and drugging and sexually assaulting and judging and groping women, etc., etc. - and stop giving women any reason to go to police, to their employer, to their counsellors, to their school authority, etc., etc.

That would make a significant difference.

You really think this will stop the conduct? I have a bridge to sell you.

What will help most to stop the conduct IMO is for women to stand up for themselves in the moment. Don't get drunk out of your mind. Don't go to drunken parties. Don't go with men you don't know (even if they are famous or offer you a job) to their bedrooms.

 

[PeterG]

Honestly, I'm getting to the point that if I see any more finger-pointing at women and I'm going to have to seek serious therapy for wanting to break a whole lot of f***ing fingers.

You really think this will stop the conduct? I have a bridge to sell you.

You have it backwards. It's not about stopping the conduct. Instead, it's the conduct that MUST be stopped.

What will help most to stop the conduct IMO is for women to stand up for themselves in the moment.

What will help most is for men to stop acting illegally and immorally.

Don't get drunk out of your mind.

Men: don't take advantage of people. Why? Because it's wrong.

Don't go to drunken parties.

Men: never serve alcohol at any event unless you are sure every male attending has the ability to act like a HUMAN BEING.

Don't go with men you don't know (even if they are famous or offer you a job) to their bedrooms.

Men: Never invite a woman back to your room unless your intention is to treat women with 100% respect. Also, be receptive to her at all times and if you are ever unsure that she is completely content with what is happening...STOP EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING. Ask her how she is. Be a human being. If you are unclear on how to do any of this, remove yourself from the situation and seek out counselling, or ask a spiritual advisor for help, or return to school and major in women's studies. See if you can volunteer at or raise money for a women's shelter. Talk to women about topics such as these and shut the F*** up and...LISTEN. LEARN.

Men: Never, EVER conduct business meetings in a non-business setting.

 

[Jenny]

What will help most to stop the conduct IMO is for women to stand up for themselves in the moment. Don't get drunk out of your mind. Don't go to drunken parties. Don't go with men you don't know (even if they are famous or offer you a job) to their bedrooms.

And this my friends is what we call victim blaming.

 

[modern_muslimah]

ack to your room unless your intention is to treat women with 100% respect. Also, be receptive to her at all times and if you are ever unsure that she is completely content with what is happening...STOP EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING. Ask her how she is. Be a human being. If you are unclear on how to do any of this, remove yourself from the situation and s

Seriously! I hate how the onus to stop sexual assault always falls on the woman. There is never a call for men to change their behavior and their attitudes to women.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And this my friends is what we call victim blaming.

Saying that a woman should stand up for herself when it is possible, is the same as saying:
- "yes, people should not rob one's house, but one should have an alarm system".
- "yes, drivers should not bump into others' cars, but one should still have a full coverage insurance".

 

[Aussie Willy]

You really think this will stop the conduct? I have a bridge to sell you.

What will help most to stop the conduct IMO is for women to stand up for themselves in the moment. Don't get drunk out of your mind. Don't go to drunken parties. Don't go with men you don't know (even if they are famous or offer you a job) to their bedrooms.

That is just victim blaming and giving men an excuse to behave the way they do. It will never change until attitudes like this change.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Saying that a woman should stand up for herself when it is possible, is the same as saying:
- "yes, people should not rob one's house, but one should have an alarm system".
- "yes, drivers should not bump into others' cars, but one should still have a full coverage insurance".

So you are saying that men will be men and we must accept their behaviour? Because that is what this type of argument becomes.

That has been the arguments the Republicans have been saying in response to the Kavanagh appointment.

 

[Aussie Willy]

You have it backwards. It's not about stopping the conduct. Instead, it's the conduct that MUST be stopped.

Actually the conduct should never happen in the first place. And even better, it is conduct that should never enter a person's mind.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Honestly, I'm getting to the point that if I see any more finger-pointing at women and I'm going to have to seek serious therapy for wanting to break a whole lot of f***ing fingers.

your own, i hope..

It's not about stopping the conduct. Instead, it's the conduct that MUST be stopped.

What will help most is for men to stop acting illegally and immorally.

There are such laws already and they are enforced when possible when crime is proven. In legal/criminal cases there is also such aspects as "reasonable degree of precaution and prevention" and "reasonable person standard". It is based on the assumption that while there are laws prohibiting "criminal behavior" not all abide, and a prospective victim in some cases can take measures to prevent escalation. In case of "man on woman rape/abuse" it does not excuse the man, but encourages a woman to take steps to try to avoid becoming a victim.

Men: don't take advantage of people. Why? Because it's wrong.

"taking advantage" is very subjective (by event, country, culture, religion, society, etc..) and hard to apply outside the written laws in "multi-cultural societies". There are arranged/forced marriages taking place in USA even today, and female genital mutilation, and if you address the communities where it is taking place, you'll be called "racist".

Men: never serve alcohol at any event unless you are sure every male attending has the ability to act like a HUMAN BEING.

.... and stop selling Twinkies in local grocery stores, because if one eats too many, one may go out and kill. (and yes, a host should make sure that all his guests are comfortable and not harassed, no man-groping and no lady-cat-fights.)

Men: Never invite a woman back to your room unless your intention is to treat women with 100% respect.

... some women might be offended if a guy does not make a pass at her..

Also, be receptive to her at all times and if you are ever unsure that she is completely content with what is happening...STOP EVERYTHING YOU ARE DOING.

... and if she's crying, don't touch her, just get a broom..
https://www.maxim.com/.image/t_share/MTUzMzQ4NjExMDQyNzE1MDE3/30-rock-broom-there-there.gif

Ask her how she is. Be a human being. If you are unclear on how to do any of this, remove yourself from the situation and seek out counselling, or ask a spiritual advisor for help, or return to school and major in women's studies. See if you can volunteer at or raise money for a women's shelter. Talk to women about topics such as these and shut the F*** up and...LISTEN. LEARN.

... just turning Gay would save the trouble..

Men: Never, EVER conduct business meetings in a non-business setting.

oh, no! don't say that.... No boardroom meeting beats one on a yacht or at some villa...
http://www.catamarans.com/PierSevenMarina/images/gallery/freestyle_37/thumbs/05.jpg
http://img.gamarjoba.ru/upload/Tbilisi/Корпоротив.jpg

.... and then there is "team-building" practices on the beach..
http://avantag.by/sites/default/files/corp_6.jpg

 

[Tinami Amori]

So you are saying that men will be men and we must accept their behaviour? Because that is what this type of argument becomes.

When you buy an auto insurance, do you think "yes, there are laws against bad and reckless driving, so that's good! but there will always be bad drivers and those who don't abide by laws"?

In many instances the victim is asked by a legal system "what could you have done to prevent this accident"..

 

[puglover]

I grew up listening to Bill Cosby in my cousins bedroom on 33 1/3 records. I don't remember ever really laughing at a comedian before him. I loved the "Cosby Show", his jello ads, his Saturday cartoon characters. I believe the women who have come forward against him. I wish more respected black men and women would speak out in support of this verdict and the fact that he is going to jail for his actions. The common denomination that I see is "power" and the abuse of it.

 

[PeterG]

This is an important article:

Padma Lakshmi: I Was Raped at 16 and I Kept Silent

The byline is: "I understand why a woman would wait years to disclose a sexual assault."

Things she talks about include:

- lack of information about sexual assault that can make someone question (or even believe) that rape is what has happened

- ways in which rape/assault victims will be punished/abused if they were to speak out about their being raped/assaulted

- thoughts about how accused men's lives might be ruined versus how the lives of rape/assault victims have been ruined

- at what age does someone get a free pass for the abuse they committed ("he was only xx years of age")

- at how many years after a rape does someone get a free pass ("but it was xx years/decades ago that he committed that rape!")

 

[Aussie Willy]

When you buy an auto insurance, do you think "yes, there are laws against bad and reckless driving, so that's good! but there will always be bad drivers and those who don't abide by laws"?

In many instances the victim is asked by a legal system "what could you have done to prevent this accident"..

By this you are giving the perpetrators an excuse for their behaviour and suggesting that women need to put up with it and tolerate it because men cannot control themselves. Are you suggesting that women should take out insurance in case there is a chance they may be sexually abused throughout their lives?

I had a situation when I was a teenager (about 14-15) where whilst I wasn't actually touched it was still incredibly unpleasant experience carried out by an old man in his 70s who should have known better. I have never told anyone this story because it was embarrassing and uncomfortable. So what was I meant to do at that age and in that situation?

 

[Tinami Amori]

By this you are giving the perpetrators an excuse for their behaviour and suggesting that women need to put up with it and tolerate it because men cannot control themselves. Are you suggesting that women should take out insurance in case there is a chance they may be sexually abused throughout their lives?

When you buy an automobile accident insurance, are you giving the perpetrators an excuse for their reckless driving and suggesting that responsible drivers need to put up with it and tolerate it because bad drivers cannot/will not control themselves?

My comment is not a dialectics exercise.. Can you please tell me, WHY you still buy (or required to buy by law) an automobile insurance, when there are LAWS against reckless driving, and the offenders are punished when such laws are broken?

Why do you slow down, or sway away to the next lane, or engage in "defensive driving" when a reckless driver is next to you endangering the traffic, and will be stopped and arrested if police caught him?

 

[AxelAnnie]

That is just victim blaming and giving men an excuse to behave the way they do. It will never change until attitudes like this change.

No, that is not victim shaming. THAT, my friend, is woman empowerment.

 

[AxelAnnie]

By this you are giving the perpetrators an excuse for their behaviour and suggesting that women need to put up with it and tolerate it because men cannot control themselves. Are you suggesting that women should take out insurance in case there is a chance they may be sexually abused throughout their lives?

I had a situation when I was a teenager (about 14-15) where whilst I wasn't actually touched it was still incredibly unpleasant experience carried out by an old man in his 70s who should have known better. I have never told anyone this story because it was embarrassing and uncomfortable. So what was I meant to do at that age and in that situation?

Tell a parent!

 

[rfisher]

Tell a parent!

Sure. Like all the Catholic boys told their parents. Have you ever read any rape statistics? Ever worked in a rape center? Volunteer some time and listen to the stories and then come back and tell us how things should be.

 

[Kasey]

Tell a parent!

And if the perpetrator IS a parent? There is a HUGE psychological impact of such an event against anyone, male or female, child or adult, but I think most especially a child, since they are still forming their character and who they will grow into being. There is NO simple "just do this" answer to this situation, to any aspect of this situation. This short phrase implies that it's oh so easy to report such a soul-crushing event, and then just wash your hands of the whole thing. And that is a very limited view of the impact of this kind of behavior.

thank you @rfisher for your response just above this one. To think that people can't see their own ignorance by choice makes me feel stabby.

 

[rfisher]

I actually agree that women shouldn't deliberately put themselves into a potentially dangerous situation, but I also understand why young women do. Parents often do little to enhance girls self-esteem. It's tied to their looks, to their getting a boyfriend. They go to parties to be popular and to get a boyfriend. Many boys on the other hand, want to have sex. Lots of sex. There's big difference. This is common in patriarchal societies. It is not in matriarchial societies. Rape is virtually unknown among matriarchial societies. It's common in male dominated cultures. So, many parents aren't the best person to tell anything. Many parents insist 14 year old girls marry a rapist to keep the neighbors from knowing. And they do it in the name of their male God. For women to be empowered, they need to elect women to political office. They need to support women in business. Women athletes need to be paid the same as male. Glass ceilings need to be shattered. Men who sexually assault need to go to jail.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Tell a parent!

And this is the problem and such a convenient response. So I was just meant to tell my mother that I was sexually harassed by a 70 year old man? Maybe you would have back in the 1970s. But I know that many teenage girls were sexually harassed by this man and no-one said anything. Why? Because it was uncomfortable and embarrassing. We actually think one girl got pregnant by him. She never said who the father was, we can only assume.

But the point is that is so easy to tell people what they should have done. But the fact is this person used his position of power over a group of people who he knew would not say anything.

 

[Aussie Willy]

No, that is not victim shaming. THAT, my friend, is woman empowerment.

No you are suggesting that women are to blame for getting themselves in a situation because men can't control what they do.

 

[PeterG]

Tell a parent!

That's exactly what Padma Lakshmi did in the article I just posted. If you had read the article, you would have seen one example of how rape victims are further abused. In this case, for following your advice and telling a parent.

 

[Japanfan]

Saying that a woman should stand up for herself when it is possible, is the same as saying:
- "yes, people should not rob one's house, but one should have an alarm system".
- "yes, drivers should not bump into others' cars, but one should still have a full coverage insurance".

Of course women should stand up for themselves when possible. But you made that statement without saying that men should stop sexually harassing/assaulting women.

It's the men's behavior that is at issue here.

Also, your analogies are somewhat flawed. In the case of robbery, it can be driven by poverty or addiction. In the case of the cars, it can be an accident.

I'm reminded of when there was a rise in incidences of rape in Israel in the 70s (so long before 'date rape' and 'consent' were even a concepts.) It was suggested that the women be given a curfew, for their safety.

Then Prime Minister Golda Meir said: Shouldn't it be the men who are given the curfew, since it is they who are doing the raping?

 

[Japanfan]

What will help most to stop the conduct IMO is for women to stand up for themselves in the moment. Don't get drunk out of your mind. Don't go to drunken parties. Don't go with men you don't know (even if they are famous or offer you a job) to their bedrooms.

So men can't change their behavior, given that the onus is on women to 'most help'?

It's okay for men to get drunk out of their mind, go to drunken parties, and try to lure women to their bedrooms?

Why? Because they have no capacity to control themselves?

This statement is just all sorts of wrong.

ETA: It is not pertinent to cases of sexual harassment in the workplace, which is probably the most form of sexual harassment and is currently being foregrounded.

No, that is not victim shaming. THAT, my friend, is woman empowerment.

You are essentially saying that women should be afraid of men, and be vigilant when around them because they threaten women's safety and security. And therefore give up certain freedoms, like the freedom to have a good time at a party.

That's hardly empowerment.