U.S. Women [#6]: The More the Merrier!

[Vagabond]

I may have missed reading the earlier discussion of this topic... IIRC, I thought it was Ava's personal choice to withdraw from 2024 Nationals in order to prepare (better) for 4CC?

The Women's Short Program at Four Continents in Shanghai was on the Thursday after the Women's Free Skate at Nationals in Columbus. It would be unreasonable to expect a skater competing for a medal two skate her best at both events, as evidenced by Lindsay Thorngren's twelfth-place finish at Four Continents after earning a medal ar Nationals.

I am a lawyer. I believe that rules should be followed, but sometimes, equity overrides the rules.

 

[Coco]

So the logic is that if Ava had competed at 2024 Nationals, she would have placed high enough to earn a bye.

If USFS had asked or suggested she skip 2024 Nationals, her getting a bye to 2025 Nationals makes total sense.

That said, transparency goes a loooooong way towards boosting morale.

 

[Sylvia]

It would be unreasonable to expect a skater competing for a medal two skate her best at both events, as evidenced by Lindsay Thorngren's twelfth-place finish at Four Continents after earning a medal ar Nationals.

2024 4CC results:

4 Ava Marie ZIEGLER USA 201.19 3 4
8 Elyce LIN-GRACEY USA 173.98 8 11 (10th at Nationals in her Senior debut)
12 Lindsay THORNGREN USA 162.63 7 12 (7th at Nationals)

ETA (bolded words mine):

If USFS had asked or suggested she skip 2024 Nationals, her getting a bye to 2025 Nationals makes total sense.

That said, transparency goes a loooooong way towards boosting morale.

 

[haribobo]

sorry please delete

 

[haribobo]

JUNIOR WOMEN NATIONAL QUALIFIERS

Sophie Joline von Felten 181
Emilia Nemirovsky 175
Jessica Jurka 170
Jiaying Ellyse Johnson 165
Cleo Park 164
Sofia Bezkorovainaya 160
Angela Shao 160
Annika Chao 159
Ela Cui 157
Skylar Lautowa-Peguero 152
Teryn Kim 152
Kaya Tiernan 152
Mia Iwase 148
Alayna Coats 145
Annabelle Wilkins 144
Hannah Kim 143
Maria Platonova 130
Carina Tanabe 125

 

[tony]

The Women's Short Program at Four Continents in Shanghai was on the Thursday after the Women's Free Skate at Nationals in Columbus. It would be unreasonable to expect a skater competing for a medal two skate her best at both events, as evidenced by Lindsay Thorngren's twelfth-place finish at Four Continents after earning a medal ar Nationals.

I am a lawyer. I believe that rules should be followed, but sometimes, equity overrides the rules.

As has been pointed out to you, Thorngren was 7th at Nationals. Not a medal. US 4th, 5th, and 6th place mens finishers all went to 4CC. Kam & O'Shea won Nationals and were on the podium at 4CC. Carreira & Ponomarenko finished with silver at Nationals and won a medal at 4CC, as well. Unreasonable?

The women at Nationals finished on Friday IIRC (first of all four disciplines) and the men finished Sunday.

You're a lawyer. Facts matter.

ETA- women's world team was named January 28 from a quick search. Before 4CC even happened. What you seem to be suggesting is that she was told to skip Nationals, to then not even have a chance to go to Worlds [based on when teams were made official]? Nah.

 

[haribobo]

SENIOR WOMEN Nationals Qualifiers
TOP 2 scores this season, regardless of nat/intl

Amber Glenn 215/212
Elyce Lin-Gracey 213/193
Sarah Everhardt 201/196
Isabeau Levito 198/194
Bradie Tennell 196/192
Starr Andrews 196/190
Mia Kalin 193/168
Alysa Liu 192/190
Lindsay Thorngren 191/179
Logan Higase-Chen 191/179
Sherry Zhang 190/160
Alina Bonillo 177/161
Sonja Hilmer 176/171
Josephine Lee 174/173
Alexa Gasparotto 170/159 *1st alternate
Alex Evans 162/156
Ting Cui 161/159
Clare Seo 147/147
Ava Ziegler no score (201/200 last year)

 

[haribobo]

Worlds alternates, being named later, ended up having Ava Ziegler as 1st alternate ahead of Elyce and Starr, which very few could quibble with (maybe only Sarah Everhardt being totally passed over being an issue, although she would've needed min scores). Going into Nationals, most probably felt that Isabeau and Amber were something of a near lock for Worlds. Of course Ava and her team were the ultimate decision makers for the decision to withdraw from Nationals, but I think there is a lot of credit due to her for both her very strong season and ultimately making a very smart decision, which ultimately could have put her at Worlds if anyone withdrew. I still think the rules should be amended to clearly state this type of a bye, but ultimately this does make sense. In winning NHK, she defeated a World medalist and a European champion. What is unknown is if she actually has been skating/jumping and reasonably could be expected to compete at Nationals.

All that being said, I feel Alexa Gasparotto and Brooke Gewalt deserve to be at Nationals also. Both can be true. I think there should be a caveat on senior level that if your score beats out 3/4 of the other sectional qualifiers, you get a spot. Of course that would eliminate their neat 18 person limit, and would never happen, but I think it is warranted and only fair given how strong Mids was this year.

 

[Sylvia]

Alexa Gasparotto's Mids Senior Women 1st place SP to "This Woman's Work" by Kate Bush (choreo. by Tommy Steenberg) from Friday was uploaded by USFS an hour ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiv0beKxFI
Her high, powerful jumps look much more controlled now - she started working with Denise Myers, Jeremy Allen & Steenberg this past summer.

 

[zigzig]

Alexa Gasparotto's Mids Senior Women 1st place SP to "This Woman's Work" by Kate Bush (choreo. by Tommy Steenberg) from Friday was uploaded by USFS an hour ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiv0beKxFI
Her high, powerful jumps look much more controlled now - she started working with Denise Myers, Jeremy Allen & Steenberg this past summer.

Nice. Reminds me of early days Gracie Gold jumps.

 

[Coco]

All that being said, I feel Alexa Gasparotto and Brooke Gewalt deserve to be at Nationals also. Both can be true. I think there should be a caveat on senior level that if your score beats out 3/4 of the other sectional qualifiers, you get a spot. Of course that would eliminate their neat 18 person limit, and would never happen, but I think it is warranted and only fair given how strong Mids was this year.

This is a good idea.

Another way to allow for more qualifiers to get to Nationals would be... a preliminary round at Nationals.

Prelims could be about 2-3 days before the SP/RD event for that discipline. They would be held in the small arena and consist of a FS/FD only.

After this preliminary round, the top X finishers would advance to the SP/RD.

X = the number of competitors in 3 warmup groups minus the number of skaters with byes directly to the SP.

The byes given to Nationals could be tiered, with some byes granting entry to the preliminary round and some granting entry to the SP/RD.

This preliminary round would allow for more skaters to get to Nationals without increasing the length of the SP/RD and FS/FD rounds

I would go a step further and winnow the field to 2 warmup groups after the sp, but that is just me

I'm sure this is impractical for many reasons, but I think it would be fun.

 

[layman]

Alexa Gasparotto's Mids Senior Women 1st place SP to "This Woman's Work" by Kate Bush (choreo. by Tommy Steenberg) from Friday was uploaded by USFS an hour ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adiv0beKxFI
Her high, powerful jumps look much more controlled now - she started working with Denise Myers, Jeremy Allen & Steenberg this past summer.

Thank you for sharing! I like the spring (and control) in her jumps too!

 

[jlai]

Worlds alternates, being named later, ended up having Ava Ziegler as 1st alternate ahead of Elyce and Starr, which very few could quibble with (maybe only Sarah Everhardt being totally passed over being an issue, although she would've needed min scores). Going into Nationals, most probably felt that Isabeau and Amber were something of a near lock for Worlds. Of course Ava and her team were the ultimate decision makers for the decision to withdraw from Nationals, but I think there is a lot of credit due to her for both her very strong season and ultimately making a very smart decision, which ultimately could have put her at Worlds if anyone withdrew. I still think the rules should be amended to clearly state this type of a bye, but ultimately this does make sense. In winning NHK, she defeated a World medalist and a European champion. What is unknown is if she actually has been skating/jumping and reasonably could be expected to compete at Nationals.

All that being said, I feel Alexa Gasparotto and Brooke Gewalt deserve to be at Nationals also. Both can be true. I think there should be a caveat on senior level that if your score beats out 3/4 of the other sectional qualifiers, you get a spot. Of course that would eliminate their neat 18 person limit, and would never happen, but I think it is warranted and only fair given how strong Mids was this year.

Agree

 

[Stephanie]

SENIOR WOMEN Nationals Qualifiers
TOP 2 scores this season, regardless of nat/intl

Amber Glenn 215/212
Elyce Lin-Gracey 213/193
Sarah Everhardt 201/196
Isabeau Levito 198/194
Bradie Tennell 196/192
Starr Andrews 196/190
Mia Kalin 193/168
Alysa Liu 192/190
Lindsay Thorngren 191/179
Logan Higase-Chen 191/179
Sherry Zhang 190/160
Alina Bonillo 177/161
Sonja Hilmer 176/171
Josephine Lee 174/173
Alexa Gasparotto 170/159 *1st alternate
Alex Evans 162/156
Ting Cui 161/159
Clare Seo 147/147
Ava Ziegler no score (201/200 last year)

First year seniors: Logan Higase-Chen, Sherry Zhang, and Alina Bonillo.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

SENIOR WOMEN Nationals Qualifiers
TOP 2 scores this season, regardless of nat/intl

Amber Glenn 215/212
Elyce Lin-Gracey 213/193
Sarah Everhardt 201/196
Isabeau Levito 198/194
Bradie Tennell 196/192
Starr Andrews 196/190
Mia Kalin 193/168
Alysa Liu 192/190
Lindsay Thorngren 191/179
Logan Higase-Chen 191/179
Sherry Zhang 190/160
Alina Bonillo 177/161
Sonja Hilmer 176/171
Josephine Lee 174/173
Alexa Gasparotto 170/159 *1st alternate
Alex Evans 162/156
Ting Cui 161/159
Clare Seo 147/147
Ava Ziegler no score (201/200 last year)

I didn’t realize the scores of Andrews, even higher than Alysa, so will this help her get Grand Prix for next season

 

[tony]

I didn’t realize the scores of Andrews, even higher than Alysa, so will this help her get Grand Prix for next season

It won't if her ISU ranking doesn't go up. She can of course get a host pick, but that won't be determined until Nationals is finished and summer monitoring/competition happens.

 

[Stephanie]

I didn’t realize the scores of Andrews, even higher than Alysa, so will this help her get Grand Prix for next season

Those are domestic scores. Starr's ISU season best score is 164 from Cranberry, which is almost certainly way too low to get a GP next season (currently 64th on the season's best list). As @tony mentions, she could get a Skate America host pick, but that wouldn't be confirmed until September, and at this point it doesn't seem super likely unless she really improves between now and then.

 

[Karen-W]

SENIOR WOMEN Nationals Qualifiers
TOP 2 scores this season, regardless of nat/intl

Amber Glenn 215/212
Elyce Lin-Gracey 213/193
Sarah Everhardt 201/196
Isabeau Levito 198/194
Bradie Tennell 196/192
Starr Andrews 196/190
Mia Kalin 193/168
Alysa Liu 192/190
Lindsay Thorngren 191/179
Logan Higase-Chen 191/179
Sherry Zhang 190/160
Alina Bonillo 177/161
Sonja Hilmer 176/171
Josephine Lee 174/173
Alexa Gasparotto 170/159 *1st alternate
Alex Evans 162/156
Ting Cui 161/159
Clare Seo 147/147
Ava Ziegler no score (201/200 last year)

This is ridiculous to mingle domestic and international scores. Everyone knows that domestic score inflation exists and most of the domestic scores would be nowhere near what skaters achieve internationally for the same content.

 

[Sylvia]

^^^ Just skip over them then?

I was planning to post my own season best domestic & international scores lists later, if/when I have time, and also include a bit more info about the Novice women who qualified to skate at Junior Nationals.

Jill Heiner posted today that her withdrawal from Eastern Sectionals was due to “a lower abdominal and left adductor strain that occurred during a fall in practice” - her post & photos from the season, including a nice one with Ting (#6 of 9):

jilly :) on Instagram: "Hi everyone, I didn’t want to have to make this post but things happen and all we can do is keep moving forward. :) So, I had to withdraw from Eastern Sectionals due to a lower abdominal and left adductor strain that occurred

755 likes, 97 comments - jillheinerrr on November 24, 2024: "Hi everyone, I didn’t want to have to make this post but things happen and all we can do is keep moving forward. :) So, I had to withdraw from Eastern Sectionals due to a lower abdominal and left adductor strain that occurred during a...

www.instagram.com

 

[haribobo]

It's tough with some skaters only doing domestic comps and some only doing intl. I agree that the scores don't exactly correlate but some skaters are scoring very similarly intl and domestic. I do feel that Starr and Mia's highest score are likely inaccurate compared to the others judging by the gulf between those at the intl scores they got

 

[Karen-W]

It's tough with some skaters only doing domestic comps and some only doing intl. I agree that the scores don't exactly correlate but some skaters are scoring very similarly intl and domestic. I do feel that Starr and Mia's highest score are likely inaccurate compared to the others judging by the gulf between those at the intl scores they got

Well, the other difference is that some skaters are skating senior domestically while skating junior internationally - also makes it hard to compare scores, unless you sort them out that way. But just mingling them up the way they were without distinction as if they're the same is just wrong.

 

[Sylvia]

For anyone interested in following up on Coco’s post #761, I’ve created a separate thread for this topic (that seems to come up every year, not surprisingly ):

Qualifying (singles) for U.S. Nationals - what changes would you propose?

@Coco, would you like to copy over your post in the U.S. Women's thread to this one? :) Now that the 3 U.S. Sectionals are over for another season, what changes would you like to see implemented to make the singles qualification process "fairer" at the Senior and/or Junior levels?

www.fsuniverse.net

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

This is ridiculous to mingle domestic and international scores. Everyone knows that domestic score inflation exists and most of the domestic scores would be nowhere near what skaters achieve internationally for the same content.

I was going to say, I was like what international event did I miss where Andrews had those scores

 

[crzesk8dad]

My 4-post X thread starts here: https://x.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1860464266702180834

https://twitter.com/x/status/1860464266702180834

Alina Bonillo (13th in Junior at last year's Nationals), Logan Higase-Chen (2024 U.S. Junior champ) and Sonja Hilmer qualified for Nationals via Mids today!
They will join:
Sherry Zhang P-1
Starr Andrews P-2
Ting Cui E-1 - her happy post:

Ting Cui on Instagram: "Sectionals champ and i’m going to nationals!! 🥇 Feeling incredibly grateful for all of the love and support ❤️ thank you to my coaches for the virtual lessons, to everyone who believed in me even when I didn’t, and to my Midd

1,194 likes, 116 comments - ting_a_ding on November 18, 2024: "Sectionals champ and i’m going to nationals!! 🥇 Feeling incredibly grateful for all of the love and support ❤️ thank you to my coaches for the virtual lessons, to everyone who believed in me even when I didn’t, and to my Middlebury...

www.instagram.com

Alex Evans E-2

ETA:

BYES (11): Amber Glenn, Josephine Lee, Isabeau Levito, Sarah Everhardt, Clare Seo (top 5 at Nationals last year); Alysa Liu, Elyce Lin-Gracey, Ava Ziegler, Lindsay Thorngren, Bradie Tennell, Mia Kalin.

Why 3 from mids? Or was Sonya Hilmer the top "at large' skater?

 

[Debbie S]

Or was Sonya Hilmer the top "at large' skater?

Yes

 

[Sylvia]

When USFS uploads Sonja Hilmer's Mids FS, I will post the link here.

In case this news/link wasn't posted earlier, Sonja changed her FS music after Cranberry Cup International in August (from the Argylle OST to a “Viking/Slavic theme” and made a new dress:

Sonja Hilmer on Instagram: "✨ Mid season announcement 💃 Lots of emotions announcing this change, but I am excited to pursue a new free program medley for the remainder of the season: 🎵 - "Earth Melodies", "Conjuring Storms", "Savage Daughter" from E

326 likes, 22 comments - gosanjaygo_03 on August 28, 2024: "✨ Mid season announcement 💃 Lots of emotions announcing this change, but I am excited to pursue a new free program medley for the remainder of the season: 🎵 - "Earth Melodies", "Conjuring Storms", "Savage Daughter" from Ekaterina...

www.instagram.com

Sonja’s post today after her “third time qualifying for Nationals at any level (which has only been senior)”:

Sonja Hilmer on Instagram: "2025 Midwestern Sectional Final 💖 See you in Wichita 🙌 This marks my 10th year participating in a Sectional competition (including the weird ones in '21ish) since first qualifying in intermediate at the 2013 New England R

683 likes, 42 comments - gosanjaygo_03 on November 24, 2024: "2025 Midwestern Sectional Final 💖 See you in Wichita 🙌 This marks my 10th year participating in a Sectional competition (including the weird ones in '21ish) since first qualifying in intermediate at the 2013 New England Regional...

www.instagram.com

 

[Sylvia]

Sonja Hilmer's Mids 3rd place FS (self-choreographed): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--KIU-qEBiA
Her trademark 3S to reverse 2S combo is at 3:10 and since she was the final skater, her jubilant "Yes!" in the kiss & cry was her reaction to knowing she had just qualified for Nationals in the final spot.

Her FS music is listed in her ISU bio: https://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00114471.htm
Earth Melodies by Ekaterina Shelehova
Forest Dance by Filip Lackovic
Conjuring Storms by Ekaterina Shelehova
Savage Daughter by Ekaterina Shelehova
If I Had A Heart by Ekaterina Shelehova

 

[her grace]

Looking ahead to junior worlds, Von Felton is the favorite for one spot and other spot is up in the air. Here's a look at where the season began for Juniors at the Junior Team Cup, and whether those skaters qualified for nationals. Bold = qualified to senior nationals. Italics = qualified to junior nationals.

1	20	Annika Chao, Glacier Falls FSC	1	65.25	3	114.60	179.85
2	16	Logan Higase-Chen, Broadmoor SC	3	58.02	1	121.72	179.74
3	19	Josephine Lee, All Year FSC	4	57.78	2	115.24	173.02
4	14	Cleo Park, Glacier Falls FSC	6	57.32	6	110.89	168.21
5	17	Keira Hilbelink, Glacier Falls FSC	5	57.36	7	110.79	168.15
6	8	Sofia Bezkorovainaya, Washington FSC	11	51.78	5	111.24	163.02
7	9	Sophie Joline von Felten, SC of Boston	13	50.62	4	111.68	162.30
8	13	Emilia Nemirovsky, Detroit SC	9	53.64	9	108.16	161.80
9	11	Alayna Coats, All Year FSC	10	52.09	11	105.97	158.06
10	4	Jessica Jurka, Denver Colorado FSC	17	47.77	8	109.28	157.05
11	7	Jiaying Ellyse Johnson, DuPage FSC	14	50.53	10	106.46	156.99
12	10	Angela Shao, Ann Arbor FSC	12	51.18	12	104.74	155.92
13	12	Mia Kalin, St. Moritz ISC	7	56.16	14	95.77	151.93
14	15	Alina Bonillo, DuPage FSC	8	53.87	15	91.21	145.08
15	2	Teryn Kim, Glacier Falls FSC	18	46.44	13	96.80	143.24
16	18	Ela Cui, SC of Boston	2	58.04	16	83.47	141.51
17	6	Mia Barghout, SC of New York	15	49.11	17	82.96	132.07
18	3	Ella Kim, St. Moritz ISC	16	48.12	18	82.48	130.60
19	5	Jasmine Clarke, Washington FSC	20	38.76	19	71.50	110.26
20	1	Courali Clay, Palm Beach FSC	19	43.16	20	63.94	107.10

 

[Stephanie]

One or both of Elyce Lin-Gracey and Sarah Everhardt are likely bets for junior worlds, assuming both don’t make the world team (pretty unlikely, IMO).

Sherry Zhang (competing senior at nationals) is another one who could factor in. She seems to be still making her way back from injury, but if she gets back to last year’s form could definitely contend for a spot.

 

[Sylvia]

USFS made the 2025 Nationals entries official in their press release today (I've included the Sectional placements below):

Senior Women (18):

• Starr Andrews (senior sectionals, P-2)
• Alina Bonillo (senior sectionals, M-1)
• Ting Cui (senior sectionals, E-1)
• Alex Evans (senior sectionals, E-2)
• Sarah Everhardt (bye)
• Amber Glenn (bye)
• Logan Higase-Chen (senior sectionals, M-2)
• Sonja Hilmer (senior sectionals, M-3)
• Mia Kalin (bye)
• Josephine Lee (bye)
• Isabeau Levito (bye)
• Elyce Lin-Gracey (bye)
• Alysa Liu (bye)
• Clare Seo (bye)
• Bradie Tennell (bye)
• Lindsay Thorngren (bye)
• Sherry Zhang (senior sectionals, P-1)
• Ava Ziegler (bye)

Junior Women (18):

• Sofia Bezkorovainaya (junior sectionals, E-2)
• Annika Chao (junior sectionals, P-2)
• Alayna Coats (junior sectionals, P-4)
• Ela Cui (junior sectionals, M-4)
• Mia Iwase (novice sectionals, E-2)
• Jiaying Ellyse Johnson (junior sectionals, M-3)
• Jessica Jurka (junior sectionals, M-2)
• Hannah Kim (novice sectionals, P-1)
• Teryn Kim (junior sectionals, P-3)
• Skylar Lautowa-Peguero (junior sectionals, E-3)
• Emilia Nemirovsky (junior sectionals, M-1)
• Cleo Park (junior sectionals, P-1)
• Maria Platonova (junior sectionals, E-4)
• Angela Shao (novice sectionals, M-1)
• Carina Tanabe (novice sectionals, P-2)
• Kaya Tiernan (novice sectionals, E-1)
• Sophie Joline von Felten (junior sectionals, E-1)
• Annabelle Wilkins (novice sectionals, M-2)