U.S. Pairs 2021-22 season - News & Updates, Part X

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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68,716
2022 Nationals entries as of 11/29/21:

Championships Pairs (12 teams/6 qualified via the CS comps in Nevada or Massachusetts; * = listed in USFS' ISP)
*Ashley Cain-Gribble, The SC of New York, Inc. / Timothy LeDuc, Los Angeles FSC [BYE]
*Jessica Calalang, DuPage FSC / Brian Johnson, The SC of New York, Inc. [BYE]
*Emily Chan, The Skating Club of Boston / Spencer Howe, The Skating Club of Boston [BYE]
Sydney Cooke, Elite Edge SC / Keyton Bearinger, Detroit SC, Inc. (136.86 NV)
Kate Finster, The SC of New York, Inc. / Matej Silecky, The SC of New York, Inc. (141.62 NV)
*Alexa Knierim, DuPage FSC / Brandon Frazier, All Year FSC [BYE]
*Chelsea Liu, The SC of New York, Inc. / Danny O'Shea, The SC of New York, Inc. [BYE]
*Audrey Lu, The Skating Club of Boston / Misha Mitrofanov, The Skating Club of Boston [BYE]
*Katie McBeath, Winterhurst FSC / Nathan Bartholomay, The SC of New York, Inc. (171.21 NV)
Maria Mokhova, Chelsea FSC / Ivan Mokhov, Chelsea FSC (140.26 MA)
Valentina Plazas, Panthers FSC, Inc. / Maximiliano Fernandez, Arctic FSC (147.69 MA)
*Anastasiia Smirnova, The SC of New York, Inc. / Danil Siianytsia, All Year FSC (168.59 MA)

Junior Pairs (12 teams qualified via the CS comps in Nevada or Massachusetts; * = listed in USFS' ISP)
Sonia Baram, Los Angeles FSC / Daniel Tioumentsev, Dallas FSC, Inc. (174.95 NV; 173.64 MA)
Brooke Barrett, The Skating Club of Boston / Levon Davis, The SC of New York, Inc. (119.52 MA)
Winter Deardorff, Northern Kentucky SC / Jake Pagano, Nashville FSC (111.08 MA)
*Cate Fleming, The SC of New York, Inc. / Chase Finster, The SC of New York, Inc. (105.12 MA)
Ashley Fletcher, Orange County FSC / Aidan Brown, Champions' Edge SC (102.79 NV)
Ellie Kam, Broadmoor SC, Inc. / Ian Meyh, All Year FSC (139.90 MA)
*Isabelle Martins, Chicago FSC / Ryan Bedard, Northern Ice SC (152.33 MA)
*Catherine Rivers, Knoxville FSC / Timmy Chapman, Central Florida FSC (134.53 NV)
Mandy Romero, The SC of New York, Inc. / Kristofer Ogren, Kansas City FSC (102.99 MA)
Cayla Smith, Fort Wayne ISC, Inc. / Andy Deng, Fort Wayne ISC, Inc. (141.53 MA)
Megan Wessenberg, The Skating Club of Boston / Blake Eisenach, Rocky Mountain FSC (134.17 MA)
*Sylvia Wong, All Year FSC / Skylar Weirens, Northern Blades NSC FSC (121.79 NV)

===

ISU SB total scores ranking as of 11/27/21 (senior):
9 Alexa KNIERIM / Brandon FRAZIER USA ISU GP Guaranteed Rate Skate America 2021 23/10/2021 202.97 S
10 Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE / Timothy LEDUC USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2021 13/11/2021 202.79 S
11 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA ISU GP Guaranteed Rate Skate America 2021 23/10/2021 197.42 S
15 Audrey LU / Misha MITROFANOV USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2021 13/11/2021 190.03 S
27 Chelsea LIU / Danny O'SHEA USA ISU GP Guaranteed Rate Skate America 2021 23/10/2021 175.40 S
31 Katie MCBEATH / Nathan BARTHOLOMAY USA ISU CS Autumn Classic International 2021 17/09/2021 168.61 S
38 Emily CHAN / Spencer Akira HOWE USA ISU CS Warsaw Cup 2021 19/11/2021 163.39 S

Knierim/Frazier, Calalang/Johnson & Lu/Mitrofanov are scheduled to compete at CS Golden Spin next week.

ISU SB total scores ranking as of 11/27/21 (junior):
45 Anastasiia SMIRNOVA / Danylo SIIANYTSIA USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021 09/10/2021 156.40 J
54 Isabelle MARTINS / Ryan BEDARD USA ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2021 01/10/2021 141.96 J
62 Cate FLEMING / Chase FINSTER USA ISU JGP Cup of Austria 2021 09/10/2021 123.66 J
 
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angi

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523
So Lu/Mitrofanov just won gold at golden spin and scored 15 points higher than Calalang/Johnson and 9 points higher than Knierim/Frazier. I feel like my desire to give them one of the two Olympic spots is even more valid now.
ETA: forgot about the last team so it will be either gold or silver with the other two not on the podium.
ETA#2: yeah they won.
 
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Karen-W

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13,459
Congratulations to Lu/Mitrofanov on their first big international win! :) (They should have been first in the LP as well. :saint:)

If USFS hoped this competition would clarify the pecking order going into Nationals ... well ... things didn't exactly go to plan.
That's an understatement!

One final update to the US Olympic Selection Criteria 4 weeks from Nationals!

Group 1
Highest Priority
Group 2Group 3Group 4
Lowest Priority
CRITERIA
FOR 2022 US
CHAMPIONSHIPS
Placed in the top 3
AND
Placed in the top 5
AND
Placed in the top 3
OR
Placed in the top 5
OR
CRITERIA
FOR 2021
INTERNATIONAL
SCORES *
Consistently scored equal to Top 3 at 2021 Worlds
P – 217.63
Consistently scored equal to Top 5 at 2021 Worlds
P – 201.18

AND/OR
scored once equal to Top 3 at 2021 Worlds
Consistently scored equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds
P – 184.41

AND/OR
scored once equal to Top 5 at 2021 Worlds
Consistently scored equal to Top 15 at 2021 Worlds
P – 157.29

OR
Scored once equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds

Pairs
Group 2 - Alexa Knierim/Brandon Frazier (192.10 Worlds 2021; 205.87 Cranberry; 212.55 John Nicks; 202.97 SkAm; 201.69 IdF; 186.69 CS Golden Spin)

Group 3 -
  • Ashley Cain-Gribble/Timothy LeDuc (185.31 Worlds 2021; 170.64 CS ACI; 193.00 CS Finlandia; 189.90 SCI; 202.79 NHK)
  • Jessica Calalang/Brian Johnson (195.28 Cranberry; 196.69 John Nicks; 191.89 CS Finlandia; 197.42 SkAm; 196.85 CS Warsaw; 180.49 CS Golden Spin)
  • Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov (158.81 Cranberry; 195.20 John Nicks; 190.03 NHK; 186.16 Rostelecom; 195.32 CS Golden Spin)
Group 4 -
  • Emily Chan/Spencer Howe (182.44 Cranberry; 170.08 John Nicks; 163.39 CS Warsaw)
  • Chelsea Liu/Danny O'Shea (165.20 Cranberry; 177.45 John Nicks; 175.40 SkAm)
  • Katie McBeath/Nathan Bartholomay (157.74 Cranberry; 161.69 John Nicks; 168.61 CS ACI)
  • Anastasiia Smirnova/Danylo Siianytsia (145.09 Cranberry; 153.63 JGP Poland; 156.40 JGP Austria)
Others with International Assignments
Kate Finster/Matej Silecky (130.47 John Nicks)

Bolded = Score that Qualified Skater into Group
Italics = Junior International score
Red = Does not have US passport
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
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8,575
They should just take the top 2 at nationals and be done with it.

I have never agreed with anything more in my life. These pairs have done absolutely nothing to justify deviating from the Nats rankings this season. I mean perhaps some tinkering would happen if the Mokhov siblings won Nationals with Cooke/Bearinger winning silver. :p But otherwise, yea. All of our top 4 have been scoring in the 180-205 range with no real consistent "top team" here. The 2 teams we send will be duking it out with James/Radford for 7th place. Would be interesting to average them though...

ETA- counting only GP and challenger events. Left out Autumn Classic for CG/L since it was early season and they already had 3 better scores afterwards.

Knierim/Frazier= 186, 201, 202 = 589/3
196 average

Cain-Gribble/LeDuc= 193, 189, 202= 584/3
194 average

Calalang/Johnson= 196, 197, 180= 573/3
191 average

Lu/Mitrofanov = 195, 190, 186 = 571/3
190 average
 
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Karen-W

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13,459
I have never agreed with anything more in my life. These pairs have done absolutely nothing to justify deviating from the Nats rankings this season. I mean perhaps some tinkering would happen if the Mokhov siblings won Nationals with Cooke/Bearinger winning silver. :p But otherwise, yea. All of our top 4 have been scoring in the 180-205 range with no real consistent "top team" here. Would be interesting to average them though...
K/F are clearly ahead of the rest of the teams if you look at their median scores. I don't have a problem with K/F being on the Olympic team or being Group 2 already, heading into Nats. I just with that 2-3 of the other teams had managed to also qualify into Group 2 prior to Nationals.
 

Karen-W

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13,459
ETA- counting only GP and challenger events. Left out Autumn Classic for CG/L since it was early season and they already had 3 better scores afterwards.

Knierim/Frazier= 186, 201, 202 = 589/3
196 average

Cain-Gribble/LeDuc= 193, 189, 202= 584/3
194 average

Calalang/Johnson= 196, 197, 180= 573/3
191 average

Lu/Mitrofanov = 195, 190, 186 = 571/3
190 average

Well, leaving aside that average score is NOT part of the Selection Criteria, your averages are skewed on the low side because you're rounding down - which isn't really right since the scoring system goes out to the tenth.

K/F = 591.35/3 = 197.12

C-G/L = 585.69/3 = 195.23

C/J had 3 CS (Finlandia - which you're counting for C-G/L, Warsaw & Golden Spin) plus SkAm = 766.65/4 = 191.66

L/M = 571.51/3 = 190.50

I wouldn't have a problem with the USFS excluding Cranberry, John Nicks or ACI (since it was only made a Challenger at the last minute so that Canada could still maintain the Challenger status for Dance and Women when they didn't have enough non-Canadian men entered), but, like I said in the Golden Spin FS discussion, discounting those events doesn't actually change the Groups into which each team have qualified. K/F's median score is still equal to Worlds Top 5, and the other three still have a median score that is equal to Worlds Top 10.

Now, what I WILL say is that, assuming K/F finish 2nd at Nationals to any of these 3 teams, I would use the National Champs in the TE, regardless of the fact that K/F are in Group 2. There should be some reward for the National Champs, as closely matched as these teams really are.
 

sk8nlizard

Well-Known Member
Messages
955
Well, leaving aside that average score is NOT part of the Selection Criteria, your averages are skewed on the low side because you're rounding down - which isn't really right since the scoring system goes out to the tenth.

K/F = 591.35/3 = 197.12

C-G/L = 585.69/3 = 195.23

C/J had 3 CS (Finlandia - which you're counting for C-G/L, Warsaw & Golden Spin) plus SkAm = 766.65/4 = 191.66

L/M = 571.51/3 = 190.50

I wouldn't have a problem with the USFS excluding Cranberry, John Nicks or ACI (since it was only made a Challenger at the last minute so that Canada could still maintain the Challenger status for Dance and Women when they didn't have enough non-Canadian men entered), but, like I said in the Golden Spin FS discussion, discounting those events doesn't actually change the Groups into which each team have qualified. K/F's median score is still equal to Worlds Top 5, and the other three still have a median score that is equal to Worlds Top 10.

Now, what I WILL say is that, assuming K/F finish 2nd at Nationals to any of these 3 teams, I would use the National Champs in the TE, regardless of the fact that K/F are in Group 2. There should be some reward for the National Champs, as closely matched as these teams really are.
I said this to someone. While I think that K/F are pretty much locks for the Olympics. If they don’t win Nationals, I think they are not locks for the TE and since that’s their only chance for a medal, they better figure out what’s going on…quick!
 

Willin

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Messages
2,325
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I think C-G/L have built their case well. Although they've had errors throughout the season, they've never really imploded yet. In addition they've shown the international judges appreciate them and their scores are trending upwards as opposed to those of the other top US teams.

What worries me is that for whatever reason the US judges seem to underscore them in comparison to international judges - which is a rarity. The US judges also seem to overscore K/F compared to what the international judges see. Going by international panels, all three of the top teams are neck and neck; going by US panels K/F are 10+ points ahead. TBH I wonder if USFS would do better to align their favorites with the favorites of international judges.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Messages
7,648
So Lu/Mitrofanov just won gold at golden spin and scored 15 points higher than Calalang/Johnson and 9 points higher than Knierim/Frazier. I feel like my desire to give them one of the two Olympic spots is even more valid now.
ETA: forgot about the last team so it will be either gold or silver with the other two not on the podium.
ETA#2: yeah they won.
Yes that’s what I’ve been saying since the Grand Prix. They had zero deductions in both of their programs again. Just like in both of their competitions at the Grand Prix. What happened to Alex and Brandon? I am away skiing and I forgot to watch the rest of the competition.

L&M are solid it’s just their PCS needs help but I think they’re strong technical should put them on the Olympic team. It’s time for a shake up
 

VGThuy

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Messages
36,969
Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I think C-G/L have built their case well. Although they've had errors throughout the season, they've never really imploded yet. In addition they've shown the international judges appreciate them and their scores are trending upwards as opposed to those of the other top US teams.

What worries me is that for whatever reason the US judges seem to underscore them in comparison to international judges - which is a rarity. The US judges also seem to overscore K/F compared to what the international judges see. Going by international panels, all three of the top teams are neck and neck; going by US panels K/F are 10+ points ahead. TBH I wonder if USFS would do better to align their favorites with the favorites of international judges.
I see the overscoring of Alexa Knierim teams but I see no evidence of American panels underscoring CG/L, like at all, looking at their detailed results in their career. In fact I see scores at two nationals that are a good bit higher than they would get internationally. I always got the impression they were one of the favored teams when they started but the hype kind of tempered in the past two seasons going into this one.

I honestly think they should just send whoever places in the top two at nationals and be done with it, but if they want to use BOW to help say K/F, they better not go crazy with it like if K/F totally bomb and every other team skates well but they are put on the team anyway.
 

RoseRed

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1,973
I see the overscoring of Alexa Knierim teams but I see no evidence of American panels underscoring CG/L, like at all, looking at their detailed results in their career. In fact I see scores at two nationals that are a good bit higher than they would get internationally. I always got the impression they were one of the favored teams when they started but the hype kind of tempered in the past two seasons going into this one.

I honestly think they should just send whoever places in the top two at nationals and be done with it, but if they want to use BOW to help say K/F, they better not go crazy with it like if K/F totally bomb and every other team skates well but they are put on the team anyway.
Well, by the official selection criteria as stated by the USFSA, Knierim/Frazier will be in group 2 as long as they are top 5 at Nationals. None of the other US pairs have the international scores to be group 2. Group 3 is the best they can do.

So if K/F are top 5 at Nats, the only way not to send them is to break their own selection rules.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Messages
7,648
Alexa and Brandon seem to be trending down. Hopefully they can pull it together in three weeks. But I’m just loving Audrey and Misha even though they lack in PCS

Also it’s surprising to see their twist in the state that it’s in kind of like Kirsten and Michael but not that dramatic.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but after watching the season unfold I am all in for the Gribbles and Audrey and Misha for team
 

VGThuy

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36,969
Well, by the official selection criteria as stated by the USFSA, Knierim/Frazier will be in group 2 as long as they are top 5 at Nationals. None of the other US pairs have the international scores to be group 2. Group 3 is the best they can do.

So if K/F are top 5 at Nats, the only way not to send them is to break their own selection rules.
I thought the groups were order of priority, not a commitment. Like those in the highest groups among the pool are given highest priority for consideration but nothing says they have to pick a team automatically who is in a higher group, especially if there are multiple contenders behind them who missed out on the higher group but aren’t really that far behind the group in the highest group in terms of raw points. Like Vincent barely missed group 2 by a few points but I doubt it really matters now. They just have the strongest argument when it comes to team selections.
 

Karen-W

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13,459
I honestly think they should just send whoever places in the top two at nationals and be done with it, but if they want to use BOW to help say K/F, they better not go crazy with it like if K/F totally bomb and every other team skates well but they are put on the team anyway.

Well, by the official selection criteria as stated by the USFSA, Knierim/Frazier will be in group 2 as long as they are top 5 at Nationals. None of the other US pairs have the international scores to be group 2. Group 3 is the best they can do.

So if K/F are top 5 at Nats, the only way not to send them is to break their own selection rules.
^^^This. As disappointed as I am with K/F overall this season - their programs aren't memorable or particularly compelling, they haven't managed to skate cleanly in any competition and their twist seems to be worse than last season - they have still man, aged to put up scores that are equal to Top 5 at Worlds in all but one competition (this most recent one). I don't have a problem with them being in Group 2 and essentially guaranteed one of the Olympic spots already going into Nationals - the chance of them finishing 5th or lower is about 1%, IMO. The highest score any other US Pairs team outside the top 4 is Chan/Howe's 182.44 from Cranberry and that's still 4 points lower than K/F's Golden Spin score. Next closest are Liu/O'Shea with 177.45 at John Nicks and 175.40 at SkAm and, right now, they aren't even back on the ice so I'm not holding my breath that they'll be at Nationals.
I thought the groups were order of priority, not a commitment. Like those in the highest groups among the pool are given highest priority for consideration but nothing says they have to pick a team automatically who is in a higher group, especially if there are multiple contenders behind them who missed out on the higher group but aren’t really that far behind the group in the highest group in terms of raw points. Like Vincent barely missed group 2 by a few points but I doubt it really matters now. They just have the strongest argument when it comes to team selections.
No, the Group placements are absolutely a commitment. From the Selection Criteria document:

The names of the athletes/teams being considered from the 2022 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships and by petition will be entered into the pool of athletes listed in precedence by the four priority groups which is based on their body of work in terms of their competitiveness, consistency and trending scores from the identified events (1.2.1.) for consideration for the 2022 U.S. Olympic Team.
...
The IC Discipline Subcommittees will nominate the athletes/teams in a ranked order based on the discussion of the criteria above at the identified events (1.2.1.). Once the IC Discipline Subcommittees have identified the slate of athletes for nomination (including replacement athletes/teams) in a ranked order to the 2022 U.S. Olympic Team, the nomination of the athletes will be forwarded to the USOPC for final approval.

Mind, the Group placements are not fully and finally complete until after Nationals because skaters/teams in Groups 1 & 2 must finish Top 3/Top 5 respectively, and skaters who are not qualified into Groups based on their International scores can still qualify into Groups 3 & 4 with Top 3/Top 5 finishes respectively. But, like I said above, with regard to K/F, for all intents and purposes, they are in Group 2 because the likelihood of them finishing 6th or lower is next to nil.

Honestly, I don't really get the angst over K/F (and Vincent in the Men) being solidly in Group 2. There's less criticism of Liu being in the same Group on the Women's side even though her season's scores would put her in Group 3 if Lombardia was discounted as a massive outlier. K/F and Vincent have both demonstrated, over the course of the season, like H/D and C/B in Dance, a scoring level that is consistent with Top 5 in the World. They've earned that placement and we should be happy they are, for the most part, skating at that level.
 

VGThuy

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36,969
^^^This. As disappointed as I am with K/F overall this season - their programs aren't memorable or particularly compelling, they haven't managed to skate cleanly in any competition and their twist seems to be worse than last season - they have still man, aged to put up scores that are equal to Top 5 at Worlds in all but one competition (this most recent one). I don't have a problem with them being in Group 2 and essentially guaranteed one of the Olympic spots already going into Nationals - the chance of them finishing 5th or lower is about 1%, IMO. The highest score any other US Pairs team outside the top 4 is Chan/Howe's 182.44 from Cranberry and that's still 4 points lower than K/F's Golden Spin score. Next closest are Liu/O'Shea with 177.45 at John Nicks and 175.40 at SkAm and, right now, they aren't even back on the ice so I'm not holding my breath that they'll be at Nationals.

No, the Group placements are absolutely a commitment. From the Selection Criteria document:



Mind, the Group placements are not fully and finally complete until after Nationals because skaters/teams in Groups 1 & 2 must finish Top 3/Top 5 respectively, and skaters who are not qualified into Groups based on their International scores can still qualify into Groups 3 & 4 with Top 3/Top 5 finishes respectively. But, like I said above, with regard to K/F, for all intents and purposes, they are in Group 2 because the likelihood of them finishing 6th or lower is next to nil.

Honestly, I don't really get the angst over K/F (and Vincent in the Men) being solidly in Group 2. There's less criticism of Liu being in the same Group on the Women's side even though her season's scores would put her in Group 3 if Lombardia was discounted as a massive outlier. K/F and Vincent have both demonstrated, over the course of the season, like H/D and C/B in Dance, a scoring level that is consistent with Top 5 in the World. They've earned that placement and we should be happy they are, for the most part, skating at that level.
There’s a lot discussion about Liu and I’ve seen posts just wanting to go with the top 3 finishers at nationals there but the other women haven’t been giving us as much as the pairs and that’s saying something. I feel like all the discussion about Vincent not being in the top 2 men has all but died down now that we see how he’s done compared to the other men, but it took a lot of hard work and underperforming after tons of hype from the other men to get to that point. I’m sure there is a poster holding out hope he’ll still miss out to Malinin or something.
 

Brenda_Bottems

Banned Member
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801
I am disheartened in the performance of Knierim+Frazier this season. They should be challenging the top Russian and Chinese teams for the podium placements. Instead,they find themselves slumming in fifth place at an invitational in Zagreb.

I expect a command performance at Nationals next month.

-BB
 

Karen-W

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13,459
There’s a lot discussion about Liu and I’ve seen posts just wanting to go with the top 3 finishers at nationals there but the other women haven’t been giving us as much as the pairs and that’s saying something.
Well, that's true. But that still doesn't explain the angst over Vincent - it isn't as though the Men have been skating up to their capabilities either (I'm looking at you Tomoki & Camden), lol.

I do think there's a bit of a recency bias occurring here because K/F really tanked it yesterday in what would have been an easy win had they skated their FS at the same level they've been skating it all season (their low in the FS before yesterday was 131.54).
 

Willin

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2,325
I see the overscoring of Alexa Knierim teams but I see no evidence of American panels underscoring CG/L, like at all, looking at their detailed results in their career. In fact I see scores at two nationals that are a good bit higher than they would get internationally. I always got the impression they were one of the favored teams when they started but the hype kind of tempered in the past two seasons going into this one.

I honestly think they should just send whoever places in the top two at nationals and be done with it, but if they want to use BOW to help say K/F, they better not go crazy with it like if K/F totally bomb and every other team skates well but they are put on the team anyway.
I suppose I should've said it differently - it's less the actual score and more where USFS judges place them in relation to other teams. Like I said, they're pretty clearly in the mix for being the top or a top 2 US team, but USFS seems to see them as a perpetual #3-4 (outside of their first season or two).
 

Mayra

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8,600
Something that strikes me about L/M is the lack of drama. Yes, they fall once in a while, but they are the only top US team I can thin of that you don't hold your breath waiting for a mistake on that one element. There's a methodology that works
I almost think a little drama wouldn't hurt. They're clearly hard workers. They just tick off the elements as they go, but they need a little more oomph, a little more speed, power? skate bigger? Something to take them to the next level.
 

chachacha

Active Member
Messages
226
^^^This. As disappointed as I am with K/F overall this season - their programs aren't memorable or particularly compelling, they haven't managed to skate cleanly in any competition and their twist seems to be worse than last season - they have still man, aged to put up scores that are equal to Top 5 at Worlds in all but one competition (this most recent one). I don't have a problem with them being in Group 2 and essentially guaranteed one of the Olympic spots already going into Nationals - the chance of them finishing 5th or lower is about 1%, IMO. The highest score any other US Pairs team outside the top 4 is Chan/Howe's 182.44 from Cranberry and that's still 4 points lower than K/F's Golden Spin score. Next closest are Liu/O'Shea with 177.45 at John Nicks and 175.40 at SkAm and, right now, they aren't even back on the ice so I'm not holding my breath that they'll be at Nationals.

No, the Group placements are absolutely a commitment. From the Selection Criteria document:



Mind, the Group placements are not fully and finally complete until after Nationals because skaters/teams in Groups 1 & 2 must finish Top 3/Top 5 respectively, and skaters who are not qualified into Groups based on their International scores can still qualify into Groups 3 & 4 with Top 3/Top 5 finishes respectively. But, like I said above, with regard to K/F, for all intents and purposes, they are in Group 2 because the likelihood of them finishing 6th or lower is next to nil.

Honestly, I don't really get the angst over K/F (and Vincent in the Men) being solidly in Group 2. There's less criticism of Liu being in the same Group on the Women's side even though her season's scores would put her in Group 3 if Lombardia was discounted as a massive outlier. K/F and Vincent have both demonstrated, over the course of the season, like H/D and C/B in Dance, a scoring level that is consistent with Top 5 in the World. They've earned that placement and we should be happy they are, for the most part, skating at that level.
I agree they had 1 bad competition I mean it happens. Some people are like really ridiculous over 1 competition they scored under 200. I get it, this was another opportunity for them to be at the top of there game. However they had a rough long program and They have had strong ones through out the season. Nationals is a few weeks away so it certainly will be an exciting event.
 

Carolla5501

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6,634
I found all the tracking of the groups hysterical. Because in truth is US figure skating is going to send who they want. Alexa could not show up at nationals and she gets to go to the Olympics. End of discussion


Sadly I think for Ashley and Tim that presents a problem. They could win nationals and easily be told no we don’t really like you


The judging doesn’t necessarily reflect what they put on the ice, the judging includes “we like you and we don’t like you” especially when it comes to US figure skating in pairs. ( Of course with dance the judges know the scores today. LOL.)
 

olympic

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10,321
I almost think a little drama wouldn't hurt. They're clearly hard workers. They just tick off the elements as they go, but they need a little more oomph, a little more speed, power? skate bigger? Something to take them to the next level.
They need more PCS. But, what I meant was drama over an element. You can smell the fear on Jessica when she sets up for a SBS jump and the heartbreak afterwards. Alexa and Ash to some extent do the same thing. Audrey just gets up and goes
 

TanithandBenFan

Author of the Ice and Edge Series
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Something that strikes me about L/M is the lack of drama. Yes, they fall once in a while, but they are the only top US team I can thin of that you don't hold your breath waiting for a mistake on that one element. There's a methodology that works
In the past their lifts have made me hold my breath, but knock on wood it seems like they’ve ironed out all the issues that caused so many aborted lifts.
 

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