U.S. Pairs 2021-22 season - News & Updates, Part X

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
432
I don’t understand why K/F don’t get better GOE on their throws. Their throws are so much bigger and have that ‘wow’ factor that a lot of other teams don’t have and get the same GOE. I have to imagine the bigger jumps are more difficult to land.
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,458
I didn't think Warsaw's pairs scores were necessarily inflated or out of line with where most of these teams have been scoring this season with comparable performances in other events. C/J scored about where I expected them to score based on what they put on the ice in both the SP and FS - their SB in the FS with a mostly clean skate is still below K/F, which seems about right.

I don't get the sense that the USFS is favoring one team over the other when it comes to C-G/L and C/J , though I could make an argument that C/J are getting more chances to prove they can break the 200+ barrier than C-G/L since C/J got the Golden Spin assignment and C-G/L are only alternates. It would have been nice to have seen another head-to-head between C-G/L and C/J again before Nats.
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,265
I don’t understand why K/F don’t get better GOE on their throws. Their throws are so much bigger and have that ‘wow’ factor that a lot of other teams don’t have and get the same GOE. I have to imagine the bigger jumps are more difficult to land.
They got pretty good GOE on the throw loop in France but they just stroke into it, and there's a little transition out of it but it doesn't really go anywhere, and on the flip she had a low landing & it was a bit messy. It will probably take another year for the complexity of the program to come up to the point where they can score more than a '3' in GOE on most of their elements.
 

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
432
They got pretty good GOE on the throw loop in France but they just stroke into it, and there's a little transition out of it but it doesn't really go anywhere, and on the flip she had a low landing & it was a bit messy. It will probably take another year for the complexity of the program to come up to the point where they can score more than a '3' in GOE on most of their elements.
I guess I’m not talking about this program in particular but in the past they have had some beautiful ones that I can’t think of what more the judges would have wanted. (And I understand they could maybe add more transitions but the other teams that I’m thinking of compared to don’t have them either and have much smaller jumps with similar GOE)
 

skatingguy

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,265
I guess I’m not talking about this program in particular but in the past they have had some beautiful ones that I can’t think of what more the judges would have wanted. (And I understand they could maybe add more transitions but the other teams that I’m thinking of compared to don’t have them either and have much smaller jumps with similar GOE)
Sure, I can understand that. It's hard to know without looking at specific competitions and how everyone skates because their is a tendency when a skater/couple are doing well their scores go up across the board, and when they make mistakes the scores go down across the board whether that was fair or not to the particular element being scored.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,648
I don’t understand why K/F don’t get better GOE on their throws. Their throws are so much bigger and have that ‘wow’ factor that a lot of other teams don’t have and get the same GOE. I have to imagine the bigger jumps are more difficult to land.

I’ve always mentioned that. Yeah they have mega distance on their throws
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,321
While I am generally happy w. the progression made by US pairs lately, I must state that if K/F just had fewer mistakes at SkAm and IdF on those elements for which they have a good success rate (his falls, her silly step-out on the throw), they could have made it to the GPF w. two 2nd places if my math is correct. It is things like this that keep American pairs from opening doors to the next level. GPF would compel the judges to view them as a top team, and I bet GOE and PCS would follow like it does for other pairs.
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
8,575
I think no matter what they do at this point, US and Canada are stuck around 7th place and below until the Chinese teams retire. There doesn't appear to be much talent waiting to replace P/J and S/H there. I am fully expecting Russia to always have 3 teams in top 5 basically til the end of time, but I think besides Miura/Kihara who are doing very well, its a crapshoot....but assuming some CHN retirements coming, then a top 5ish Worlds spot will possibly be up for grabs soon.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,321
I think no matter what they do at this point, US and Canada are stuck around 7th place and below until the Chinese teams retire. There doesn't appear to be much talent waiting to replace P/J and S/H there. I am fully expecting Russia to always have 3 teams in top 5 basically til the end of time, but I think besides Miura/Kihara who are doing very well, its a crapshoot....but assuming some CHN retirements coming, then a top 5ish Worlds spot will possibly be up for grabs soon.
It's kind of a long and painful process, but C/J are in their mid-20s and in their 4th season together. I do hold out hope for them but it wanes at times. IMO, they have the best basic SS of all the Americans.

K/F have been together less time and have some huge moves and decent success rate on all the elements, albeit w. silly mistakes that cost them when they have a clear path to move up (see above).

Both teams also need to find a 'style' that make the FS establishment open their eyes. C/J made a great choice w. their GOT music a couple of seasons ago, but I'm not loving this season's picks. Why not use the original Queen version of 'Who Wants to Live Forever' for the LP? It's packs more of a punch. Not a great fan of either music picks for K/F

CG/L have IMO the top music picks and are best at presenting on the ice. Their twist has come a long way, but their throws come across as the most 'fragile' of the top US teams, and their jumps are more miss than hit. Everything else is top notch.

Shout-out to L/M for most-improved. I want to see them push tomorrow at Rostelecom Cup and get even better. Judging by their opening moves in the LP, they understand choreo and 'telling a story' but they need to go further in every aspect of that. However, they are locking in their elements. Of all the US teams, I am most comfortable w. their SBS jumps and I love the ambition of the arm-variation on the twist.

Finally, I hope we see L/O again. They are so well-matched but even prior to the accident, she struggles so much landing anything, which is strange because when she came back from CHN, she was more consistent.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
523
Can a case be made in favor of sending L/M to the Olympics? Because their potential is higher than any other current US pairs team IMO and they are a surprisingly consistent team.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,321
^They are making rapid gains. But not likely this year.

Any US pair retirements after this season? It seems like all of K/F, CG/L and C/J are making progress. K/F and C/J are fairly new teams: C/J have had 1 Olympic cycle together and K/F have had 1/2 a cycle. I would say that CG/L being together the longest that they would be 1st in line to call it quits, but just this year, they have remarkable made gains on the twist and her landings on the throws have been better. So, it seem like if anyone retires, it would be a letdown
 

yeslek

Well-Known Member
Messages
432
Can a case be made in favor of sending L/M to the Olympics? Because their potential is higher than any other current US pairs team IMO and they are a surprisingly consistent team.
I would t say it’s higher potential than K/F but I agree they are sitting between 2 and 4
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,458
Just throwing this in here:

Group 2 -
- Alexa Knierim/Brandon Frazier (192.10 Worlds 2021; 205.87 Cranberry; 212.55 John Nicks; 202.97 SkAm; 201.69 IdF; CS Golden Spin)
Group 3 -
- Ashley Cain-Gribble/Timothy LeDuc (185.31 Worlds 2021; Cranberry; 170.64 CS ACI; 193.00 CS Finlandia; 189.90 SCI; 202.79 NHK)
- Jessica Calalang/Brian Johnson (195.28 Cranberry; 196.69 John Nicks; 191.89 CS Finlandia; 197.42 SkAm; 196.85 CS Warsaw; CS Golden Spin)
- Audrey Lu/Misha Mitrofanov (158.81 Cranberry; 195.20 John Nicks; 190.03 NHK; 186.16 Rostelecom; CS Golden Spin)
Group 4 -
- Emily Chan/Spencer Howe (182.44 Cranberry; 170.08 John Nicks; 163.39 CS Warsaw)
- Chelsea Liu/Danny O'Shea (165.20 Cranberry; 177.45 John Nicks; 175.40 SkAm; CS Warsaw)
- Katie McBeath/Nathan Bartholomay (157.74 Cranberry; 161.69 John Nicks; 168.61 CS ACI)
- Anastasiia Smirnova/Danylo Siianytsia (145.09 Cranberry; 153.63 JGP Poland; 156.40 JGP Austria)

Others with International Assignments
Kate Finster/Matej Silecky (130.47 John Nicks)
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,648
Can a case be made in favor of sending L/M to the Olympics? Because their potential is higher than any other current US pairs team IMO and they are a surprisingly consistent team.

I love them and so excited for them but I noticed that their GOE is not that high at all on their elements.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
523
I love them and so excited for them but I noticed that their GOE is not that high at all on their elements.
Yeah, but that's probably because they are young and not established enough (we all know that GOE also come from reputation), I can see them rising in a similar way to the Miura/Kihara if and when they remain consistent (and obviously they have to work on speed, lifts, and presentation).
 

beckab81

Well-Known Member
Messages
351
Yeah, but that's probably because they are young and not established enough (we all know that GOE also come from reputation), I can see them rising in a similar way to the Miura/Kihara if and when they remain consistent (and obviously they have to work on speed, lifts, and presentation).
They've been together & competing internationally for a while now, so I wouldn't say it's because they're young. They don't get high GOE because their elements aren't particularly impressive. I still get nervous for each of their lifts, and their throws & twist aren't very big. If they can improve their footwork and speed both of those things will probably improve.

The top current US pairs might be less consistent with the SBS jumps, but they all manage to make up for it with higher GOE's on big elements. That's why L/M have consistently been scoring below them for several years now, even though they have been consistent.

One positive for L/M is that I think their team did a better job of packaging them this year, as I'm less distracted by their inability to emote or relate to each other. Hopefully they'll keep improving the pair elements and can grow more in the next quad.
 

sk8nlizard

Well-Known Member
Messages
955
^They are making rapid gains. But not likely this year.

Any US pair retirements after this season? It seems like all of K/F, CG/L and C/J are making progress. K/F and C/J are fairly new teams: C/J have had 1 Olympic cycle together and K/F have had 1/2 a cycle. I would say that CG/L being together the longest that they would be 1st in line to call it quits, but just this year, they have remarkable made gains on the twist and her landings on the throws have been better. So, it seem like if anyone retires, it would be a letdown
I was wondering if there would be any retirements this year. My gut says no…but I don’t think all 3 of these pairs will make it through another Olympic cycle. My gut says if CG/L or K/F were not to make the Olympics, they would be done. If they make it, I could see them both sticking around a season Or two more. Both the girls are married, and I know Alexa has mentioned wanting to start a family. If they are continuing to improve, I would think K/F would stay in, but if they start dropping internationally I think they will be done. I think C/J will stay another Olympic cycle….but I know none of the teams personally so I am purely guessing.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,321
I was wondering if there would be any retirements this year. My gut says no…but I don’t think all 3 of these pairs will make it through another Olympic cycle. My gut says if CG/L or K/F were not to make the Olympics, they would be done. If they make it, I could see them both sticking around a season Or two more. Both the girls are married, and I know Alexa has mentioned wanting to start a family. If they are continuing to improve, I would think K/F would stay in, but if they start dropping internationally I think they will be done. I think C/J will stay another Olympic cycle….but I know none of the teams personally so I am purely guessing.
Yes. Alexa is older than Jessica and Ashley for example and she is married, but the partnership is new. So, I think it's a valid prediction that she and Brandon might only stick around if things go well. Aljona has shown that you can compete into your 30s, so another Olympic cycle is not out of the question. Tim is 31 and I don't know how much 'gas he has left in the tank', and his is a longer partnership. I guess it would depend on if Tim and Ash have achieved their goals by the end of this season. But if I had to wager, the most likely to skate to 2026 would be Jessica and Brian
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,973
Yes. Alexa is older than Jessica and Ashley for example and she is married, but the partnership is new. So, I think it's a valid prediction that she and Brandon might only stick around if things go well. Aljona has shown that you can compete into your 30s, so another Olympic cycle is not out of the question. Tim is 31 and I don't know how much 'gas he has left in the tank', and his is a longer partnership. I guess it would depend on if Tim and Ash have achieved their goals by the end of this season. But if I had to wager, the most likely to skate to 2026 would be Jessica and Brian
Just a friendly reminder that Timothy uses they/them pronouns
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
Messages
8,575
They/them gets very confusing when referring to a single person who is in a pairs partnership. Someone who decided on how we should use pronouns for non-binary people could have been a little more creative and given "them" their own word.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
Messages
12,120
They/them gets very confusing when referring to a single person who is in a pairs partnership. Someone who decided on how we should use pronouns for non-binary people could have been a little more creative and given "them" their own word.
As with most pronouns, if it's difficult to tell from context clues then just use the name instead of the pronoun. And not all nonbinary people use they/them. I have friends who use ze/zir and ve/vir. It is up to the individual to pick what they are comfortable with and up to us to respect that.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
26,068
They/them gets very confusing when referring to a single person who is in a pairs partnership. Someone who decided on how we should use pronouns for non-binary people could have been a little more creative and given "them" their own word.

Actually, the singular "they" has been around for pretty much the entire history of the English language, and, indeed, this sentence is pretty easy to understand:

Tim is 31 and I don't know how much 'gas they have left in the tank', and theirs is a longer partnership. I guess it would depend on if Tim and Ash have achieved their goals by the end of this season. But if I had to wager, the most likely to skate to 2026 would be Jessica and Brian

No need for excuses. Everyone forgets some times and needs a reminder.
 

Jayar

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,405
An in depth look at Calalang and Johnson's journey to clear her name.

 

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,512
Seven years after they ended their partnership, 2014 U.S. champions Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir are teaming up again this weekend to perform at A Night of Stars, a benefit show at The Skating Club of Boston. (Tickets/info: https://scboston.org/grandopening/)

I chatted with Marissa and Simon about what they've been doing lately and what it was like teaming up again:

 

shan

Well-Known Member
Messages
21,315
Seven years after they ended their partnership, 2014 U.S. champions Marissa Castelli and Simon Shnapir are teaming up again this weekend to perform at A Night of Stars, a benefit show at The Skating Club of Boston. (Tickets/info: https://scboston.org/grandopening/)

I chatted with Marissa and Simon about what they've been doing lately and what it was like teaming up again:

Nice article! :)
 

Users who are viewing this thread

  • Top
    Do Not Sell My Personal Information