U.S. Men 2020-21 season news & updates

Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,285
Yes, dear, I did. In an article about Nathan’s win, there was no need for him to diss Jason for “failing once again to land a fully rotated quad for the first time in his career.” His long-standing negativity towards Jason and quads is tiresome, and it was especially tacky here, in view of the quotes that Jason so generously gave him.
So stating a fact is dissing someone? . Because all he did was state a fact. Jason did not land a fully rotated quad once again. He did not go into a rant about how Jason will never land one he did not trash Jason.

I love Jason but I’m sorry that’s the fact. It’s not some trash this guy made up. He was reporting an event, that’s what happened at a sporting event, that’s what sports writers do they report what happened at sporting events. Unfortunately that’s not all rainbows and unicorns

Using your standard, he also dissed Chen because he pointed out that he fell. And he totally trashed Hanyu. LOL.
 
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her grace

standing with Mariah
Messages
4,060
I'm leery of sending Zhou to earn the spot that he lost. In three chances to help the U.S. earn spots, he's had two disasters. And he's already at the mercy of the caller since his quad technique is not consistently rotated. I'd rather risk sending someone like Hiwatashi than risk Zhou losing the spot again.

It doesn't help that Nebelhorn is so early in the season that USFS can't use early internationals to see how possible contenders fare. If the summer monitoring competitions happen, I'd like USFS to designate one of them as the event to go to if you want to try to earn the additional spot in men's and ladies.
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
Messages
8,808
I'm leery of sending Zhou to earn the spot that he lost. In three chances to help the U.S. earn spots, he's had two disasters. And he's already at the mercy of the caller since his quad technique is not consistently rotated. I'd rather risk sending someone like Hiwatashi than risk Zhou losing the spot again.

It doesn't help that Nebelhorn is so early in the season that USFS can't use early internationals to see how possible contenders fare. If the summer monitoring competitions happen, I'd like USFS to designate one of them as the event to go to if you want to try to earn the additional spot in men's and ladies.
Well according to Hersh USFS is already planning some monitoring/competition scheme for deciding the ladies' spot. I can't see why they wouldn't do with the same with the men.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,907
I just posted my thoughts on the extra Nebelhorn qualifier in the Ladies thread. How about the men?

I think this will be significantly tougher. RUS, KOR, CAN and FRA have all increased their spots. There is a real chance that the US entry will face off against Aliev or some new whiz kid from RUS, Nam Nguyen, and I'm not sure if #2 KOR or FRA is a big threat. Anyone else?
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,139
I just posted my thoughts on the extra Nebelhorn qualifier in the Ladies thread. How about the men?

I think this will be significantly tougher. RUS, KOR, CAN and FRA have all increased their spots. There is a real chance that the US entry will face off against Aliev or some new whiz kid from RUS, Nam Nguyen, and I'm not sure if #2 KOR or FRA is a big threat. Anyone else?
There are 7 spots available in the men.

France has Adam Siao Fa and he's no slouch. Not sure how good Korea's Lee is, compared to the whomever Russia sends, Nam and the eventual USA guy. But, there isn't any reason to think the US can't finish in the top 7 even going up against RUS, CAN, FRA and KOR.

I'd send Tomoki, to be honest.
 

jlai

Title-less
Messages
12,894
I like how we’re all pretending Tomoki is more consistent than Zhou. Check both their competitive histories and average scores.
Zhou has bigger ups and downs than Tomoki; that may be what fans mean.
Hard to annoint someone so early. We'll have to check summer competitions
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,570
Zhou has bigger ups and downs than Tomoki; that may be what fans mean.
Hard to annoint someone so early. We'll have to check summer competitions
Hiwatashi has had bigger wipeouts on the GP too and has never been able to make the World team despite his supposed abilities. Two of his outings, he would have done even worse than Zhou did in his freak SP, which he never did before. I'm not a fan of throwing Zhou, a former World medalist and who is seriously a contender for an Olympic and World medal given his TES, away. I also think since he put us in this position, it would be the best situation for all if he were to be the one to get us out of it, given monitoring. I kind of think some Olympic team selection thinking is going on behind some of that thinking. It maybe hard to anoint someone so early, but people are already doing it.
 

olympic

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,907
There are 7 spots available in the men.

France has Adam Siao Fa and he's no slouch. Not sure how good Korea's Lee is, compared to the whomever Russia sends, Nam and the eventual USA guy. But, there isn't any reason to think the US can't finish in the top 7 even going up against RUS, CAN, FRA and KOR.

I'd send Tomoki, to be honest.
Thanks, so there are 7 spots v. 6 spots available in Ladies? Good to know.

Do you know if there is anyone notable trying to qualify 1 entry?

BTW - to all: I think this situation will take even more monitoring if you consider the increased competition and the iffy status of US men not named Chen or Brown ... Ironic that the US ladies are more stable with regard to Nebelhorn ....
 

Karen-W

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,139
Thanks, so there are 7 spots v. 6 spots available in Ladies? Good to know.

Do you know if there is anyone notable trying to qualify 1 entry?

BTW - to all: I think this situation will take even more monitoring if you consider the increased competition and the iffy status of US men not named Chen or Brown ... Ironic that the US ladies are more stable with regard to Nebelhorn ....
There was a list compiled of likely competitors in the #TTW thread in the Trash Can.
 

lurkz2

Active Member
Messages
90
Hiwatashi has had bigger wipeouts on the GP too and has never been able to make the World team despite his supposed abilities. Two of his outings, he would have done even worse than Zhou did in his freak SP, which he never did before. I'm not a fan of throwing Zhou, a former World medalist and who is seriously a contender for an Olympic and World medal given his TES, away. I also think since he put us in this position, it would be the best situation for all if he were to be the one to get us out of it, given monitoring. I kind of think some Olympic team selection thinking is going on behind some of that thinking. It maybe hard to anoint someone so early, but people are already doing it.
While I agree Zhou should not be dismissed I think the Nebelhorn spot should be earned. Let him be monitored with Tomoki, Yaroslav and whoever shows promise in the summer comps. Let the best man advance to Nebelhorn.
 

lurkz2

Active Member
Messages
90
Can Paniot go to Nebelhorn? I vote for him.
This NBC article says he would get his release by May so I presumed he was qualified.

 

mtnskater

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2,061
Why is no one talking about Nathan Chen!? I’m still on cloud nine this morning after such a magnificent greatest ever free skate. We are so lucky to have him on the U.S. Figure skating team. ❤️❤️❤️ He’s a wonderful role model and Yalie. So much to admire. Loved the standing ovation he got from his fellow skaters from all countries in the arena.

I regret that he is not 4-time World Champion due to *********! But we’ll take 3 😁 I also regret that I had tickets to Montreal Worlds and would have gone to Stockholm to watch him in person but have now missed him two years in a row at Worlds. 😢 He’s so young. I hope he continues for a few years after Beijing. He’s proven he can skate and do school.

Shout out to Jason Brown for doing his part and demonstrating the best SKATING in the competition. The quad attempt was quite creditable. I NEVER tire of watching him.

Zhou is still a real talent. He’ll be back. Isn’t he only 20? Still young. He has previously skated great at the Olympics and Worlds.

ETA: NBC actually showed Nathan and Yuzuru in prime time last night. Progress! Although NBC broadcast was still heavily ladies focused, showing most of the top ladies, maybe NBC is wising up to the fact that USA has a three time men’s world champion going into the Winter Olympics?
 
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her grace

standing with Mariah
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4,060
Hiwatashi has had bigger wipeouts on the GP too and has never been able to make the World team despite his supposed abilities.

Hiwatashi was top 3 and beat Zhou at 2020 nationals and was the reigning Jr. World Champion, but wasn't selected for the 2020 World team. You're acting like he's some no-name whose never came close to the World team when he's been first alternate two years in a row.
 

toddlj

Nashville 2022! (If it happens)
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1,832
Given the rather shallow field competing for 7 spots, I think the US likely has 5 or six guys who can easily finish in the top 7 even on a bad day. But I say, if healthy, send Zhou.

Zhou almost qualified for the LP even with his complete meltdown, and beat some of the guys who he'd be going against at Nebelhorn. I think he could underperform/water down both programs and still easily finish top 7, given the competition.
 

Karen-W

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6,139
Given the rather shallow field competing for 7 spots, I think the US likely has 5 or six guys who can easily finish in the top 7 even on a bad day. But I say, if healthy, send Zhou.

Zhou almost qualified for the LP even with his complete meltdown, and beat some of the guys who he'd be going against at Nebelhorn. I think he could underperform/water down both programs and still easily finish top 7, given the competition.
Sure, but how "redemptive" is it if he does underperform/water down both programs? Not sure that's the narrative he wants to set to start the season.
 

toddlj

Nashville 2022! (If it happens)
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Sure, but how "redemptive" is it if he does underperform/water down both programs? Not sure that's the narrative he wants to set to start the season.
Sure... but why not at least give him the chance? Passing him over is probably also not the narrative he'd want.
 

lurkz2

Active Member
Messages
90
Given the rather shallow field competing for 7 spots, I think the US likely has 5 or six guys who can easily finish in the top 7 even on a bad day. But I say, if healthy, send Zhou.

Zhou almost qualified for the LP even with his complete meltdown, and beat some of the guys who he'd be going against at Nebelhorn. I think he could underperform/water down both programs and still easily finish top 7, given the competition.
I still think he should be monitored because I don't recall him doing so well in the grand prix events (which take place in the first half of the season), he seems to peak more in the 2nd half. To be fair, the same goes for Tomoki.
 

toddlj

Nashville 2022! (If it happens)
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1,832
I still think he should be monitored because I don't recall him doing so well in the grand prix events (which take place in the first half of the season), he seems to peak more in the 2nd half. To be fair, the same goes for Tomoki.
Agreed. First option is a healthy/prepared Zhou. Don't send him if unready. (I wonder if he will keep his programs, since he didn't really get to show them?)
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
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33,690
USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.


Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.
Nebelhorn has the advantage of not having a cut for the FS. A bad SP is not necessarily fatal.

Whether at that point he decided it hurt or he just gave up, which is kind of what it looked like, it was over. His goal was not to make the cut, his goal was to challenge Nathan and Hanyu for a medal . He knew when he landed on the ice on that first jump the goal was probably out of reach
If the physical pain became overwhelming after that mental realization, then I could understand it, but, if it were solely mental, there was a national objective on the line that he gave up because his personal goals were not in reach. In which case, I would not give him the Nebelhorn berth because of his potential upside.

I'm leery of sending Zhou to earn the spot that he lost. In three chances to help the U.S. earn spots, he's had two disasters. And he's already at the mercy of the caller since his quad technique is not consistently rotated. I'd rather risk sending someone like Hiwatashi than risk Zhou losing the spot again.
I'm a huge fan of Hiwatashi, so I'm not terribly objective, but I'd rather see him or Paniot at Nebelhorn.

I don't think that he needs to be a U.S. citizen for that. It's just an I.S.U. event, not the Olympics.
The issue is whether his release from UKR will be done in time.

My question about the seven spots for Men and six spots for Ladies is whether there are some younger skaters, especially those who are now age-eligible, or skaters who are coming back from injury or lack of training this past season who might be expected to be competitive at Nebelhorn. Usually crossing to 15 by July 1 is more relevant to Ladies than Men, but this year, we'd expect JGP to happen, and there will be junior skaters who will be competition ready at the beginning of the Senior season when Nebelhorn takes place.
 

dinakt

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,773
Why is no one talking about Nathan Chen!? I’m still on cloud nine this morning after such a magnificent greatest ever free skate. We are so lucky to have him on the U.S. Figure skating team. ❤️❤️❤️ He’s a wonderful role model and Yalie. So much to admire. Loved the standing ovation he got from his fellow skaters from all countries in the arena.

I regret that he is not 4-time World Champion due to *********! But we’ll take 3 😁 I also regret that I had tickets to Montreal Worlds and would have gone to Stockholm to watch him in person but have now missed him two years in a row at Worlds. 😢 He’s so young. I hope he continues for a few years after Beijing. He’s proven he can skate and do school.

Shout out to Jason Brown for doing his part and demonstrating the best SKATING in the competition. The quad attempt was quite creditable. I NEVER tire of watching him.

Zhou is still a real talent. He’ll be back. Isn’t he only 20? Still young. He has previously skated great at the Olympics and Worlds.

ETA: NBC actually showed Nathan and Yuzuru in prime time last night. Progress! Although NBC broadcast was still heavily ladies focused, showing most of the top ladies, maybe NBC is wising up to the fact that USA has a three time men’s world champion going into the Winter Olympics?
What is there to say but pure gushing, when it is so unquestionably mind-blowing? I also was wondering why there is no more talk about Nathan, but maybe it is just so obvious:) I rewatched Chen's free skate many times already, and will rewatch it many times more. Too bad there were no lucky people in the audience (apart from skaters themselves) to see that.
 

kwanfan1818

RIP D-10
Messages
33,690
All Nebelhorn entries are limited to one/eligible NOC* for that discipline and a max of one spot that can be earned with a high enough placement.

*There may be separate entry rules for the host, but GER can only earn one spot for Men.
 

Ice_Breaker

New Member
Messages
5
I don't think that he needs to be a U.S. citizen for that. It's just an I.S.U. event, not the Olympics.
He Doesn’t need to be a Citizen for Nebelhorn (but hearing he still may be by that time anyways) - Paniot must like Oberstdorf as he had to go earn an OG spot for Ukraine there once before)...
 

Ice_Breaker

New Member
Messages
5
Why is no one talking about Nathan Chen!? I’m still on cloud nine this morning after such a magnificent greatest ever free skate. We are so lucky to have him on the U.S. Figure skating team. ❤️❤️❤️ He’s a wonderful role model and Yalie. So much to admire. Loved the standing ovation he got from his fellow skaters from all countries in the arena.

I regret that he is not 4-time World Champion due to *********! But we’ll take 3 😁 I also regret that I had tickets to Montreal Worlds and would have gone to Stockholm to watch him in person but have now missed him two years in a row at Worlds. 😢 He’s so young. I hope he continues for a few years after Beijing. He’s proven he can skate and do school.

Shout out to Jason Brown for doing his part and demonstrating the best SKATING in the competition. The quad attempt was quite creditable. I NEVER tire of watching him.

Zhou is still a real talent. He’ll be back. Isn’t he only 20? Still young. He has previously skated great at the Olympics and Worlds.

ETA: NBC actually showed Nathan and Yuzuru in prime time last night. Progress! Although NBC broadcast was still heavily ladies focused, showing most of the top ladies, maybe NBC is wising up to the fact that USA has a three time men’s world champion going into the Winter Olympics?
Probably because it was so phenomenal and flawless everyone is still “speechless”...I personally can’t think of a more Epic performance in terms of not only nailing the skate but rising up to the moment and absolutely going next level on every aspect of it. I can’t believe it didn’t top his free skate record of 224.9 from last GP Final! Even Nathan said “This is one I’m going to remember forever”...that probably goes for most all of us :40beers:
 

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