U.S. Men 2020-21 season news & updates

[Sylvia]

I wish there was a 4CC where he could attempt this on the record!!

Or Junior Worlds (Naumov ages out of ISU Junior after this season) where I assume -- in a normal seaason -- he would have been assigned after Nationals.

ETA an update on the World team selections:

Jason Brown
Nathan Chen
Vincent Zhou - now has the FS minimum score (110.14 TES at 2019 WTT) he lacked because the ISU has allowed 2018-19 minimum scores to be used

Alternate 1 – Tomoki Hiwatashi
Alternate 2 – Maxim Naumov - his TES from 2020 Junior Worlds (40.19 / 75.98) can be used now to meet the Worlds minimums
Alternate 3 – Camden Pulkinen

 

[Marco]

Thanks Sylvia. I must have missed the discussion - why didn't Yaroslav or Jimmy make alternates? and why did Tomoki overtake Maxim on the list? This looks very heavily skewed by Skate America.

 

[jlai]

Thanks Sylvia. I must have missed the discussion - why didn't Yaroslav or Jimmy make alternates? and why did Tomoki overtake Maxim on the list?

See (1) U.S. Figure Skating's selections for 2021 Worlds (if it happens...) | FSUniverse

 

[misskarne]

Thanks Sylvia. I must have missed the discussion - why didn't Yaroslav or Jimmy make alternates? and why did Tomoki overtake Maxim on the list? This looks very heavily skewed by Skate America.

Yaroslav is yet to be released - Ukraine has a three-year policy for Olympians and he last competed internationally for Ukraine at the NHK Trophy in 2018, so he's not eligible to skate for the US.

I imagine Tomoki was put above Maxim due to Tomoki having the minimums and Maxim not (at the time). It may also be body of work.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Polina's latest podcast published Feb. 23 is an interview with Jason Brown

The Iron Butterfly

Tune in as Team USA Olympic figure skater Polina Edmunds carves out the world of figure skating.<br /> <br /> <br /> Presented by BetOnline

bleav.com

 

[toddlj]

Haven't seen this mentioned; did I miss it? It looks like Ma is listed as an alternate instead of Naumov. Maxim must have withdrawn?

http://www.isuresults.com/events/wc2021_Men.htm

 

[Sylvia]

Haven't seen this mentioned; did I miss it? It looks like Ma is listed as an alternate instead of Naumov. Maxim must have withdrawn?

Yes, I noticed it today as well - Jimmy Ma has replaced Naumov as the 3rd alternate behind Hiwatashi (1st alternate) and Pulkinen (moves up to 2nd).

 

[Sylvia]

I forgot to link to this informative post-Nationals Yaroslav Paniot article in his own GSD thread here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/yaroslav-paniot-interview.108019/#post-5952927

Looking forward to seeing him listed in both the Team B envelope and ISP later this year!

 

[Sylvia]

Ilia Malinin sure likes the 3A jump! https://www.instagram.com/p/CLsw9DtHtO2/

He's even trying 4A on the pole harness: https://www.instagram.com/p/CLuy9ZyHfgS/

 

[Sylvia]

Polina's latest podcast published Feb. 23 is an interview with Jason Brown

Another link to listen (uploaded on Edmunds' YT channel): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g92UTfDCRdU

I talk to my Olympic teammate Jason Brown about his skating journey: growing up competing [with Josh Farris], being at the Olympics as our first time competing internationally as Seniors, Olympic sparkle moments, the artistic side of skating, the headspace that resulted in not making the 2018 Olympic team + the dark moments that came with that, to his current skating today and strategy for the 2022 Games!

Polina's latest podcast conversation (March 2) is with Andrew Torgashev:

Andrew Torgashev

I chat with 2015 Junior National Champion Andrew Torgashev about his skating career thus far, consistency and mental training, training in Colorado Springs and now Los Angeles, and his future plans with skating!

art19.com

 

[Vagabond]

If Keegan Messing were still skating for the United States, we'd still have an excellent shot at three entries in the Men's event at the Olympics.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

If Keegan Messing were still skating for the United States, we'd still have an excellent shot at three entries in the Men's event at the Olympics.

Wait a second will we still have three skaters even if Nathan and Jason are below 13 or no because Vincent did not qualify?

 

[sjs5572]

If Keegan Messing were still skating for the United States, we'd still have an excellent shot at three entries in the Men's event at the Olympics.

Not sure if you're being facetious, but we still have an excellent shot. Jason and Nathan will almost definitely total less than 13 in placements, and Nebelhorn qualification should not be that diffucult.

 

[Vagabond]

Wait a second will we still have three skaters even if Nathan and Jason are below 13 or no because Vincent did not qualify?

USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.

Not sure if you're being facetious, but we still have an excellent shot. Jason and Nathan will almost definitely total less than 13 in placements, and Nebelhorn qualification should not be that diffucult.

Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.

 

[Karen-W]

USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.


Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.

Hiwatashi might be the best option of the men we can send, though at this point, if I was the USFS I might send Malinin as he seems to hold up better under pressure than the other men.

 

[sjs5572]

USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.


Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.

There should be about ten available Olympic spots at Nebelhorn: six plus requalfication spots for US, Canada, Korea and France (if placements stay the same). Ice is slippery, but our skater needs to have a double meltdown (all skaters make it to fs) not to qualify a third spot. That said, I'm not sure I would send Vincent on this mission.

USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.


Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.

USFS has to earn it at Nebelhorn.


Only partly facetious. And while qualification at Nebelhorn should not be all that difficult, it might be nevertheless. USFS can't send Chen or Brown. As far as I can see, the possible choices are either unproven (Ilia Malinin) or unreliable, especially when the pressure on (Zhou, Paniot, Naumov, etc.). Zhou is also has a persistent problem with undeerrotations, as we saw today.

 

[olympic]

Why does the ISU make things so complicated?

 

[toddlj]

Not sure why folks are dismissing Hiwatashi. He wasn't stellar at Nats but he can generally be depended on to skate in the 220-240 range. He has come through at big events as well; he was respectable at 4CC and he won Jr. Worlds.

 

[Vash01]

May be this has been discussed somewhere. Zhou did not qualify for free skate. However, if Chen and Brown add up to 13 will that ensure that the US will get three spots in the 2022 Olympics? I think it will, but I am looking for confirmation.

 

[Rukia]

May be this has been discussed somewhere. Zhou did not qualify for free skate. However, if Chen and Brown add up to 13 will that ensure that the US will get three spots in the 2022 Olympics? I think it will, but I am looking for confirmation.

Kind of. They will have to send someone not Chen or Brown to re-earn the spot at Nebelhorn.

 

[Vagabond]

There should be about ten available Olympic spots at Nebelhorn: six plus requalfication spots for US, Canada, Korea and France (if placements stay the same).Si

If I understand the rules correctly, twenty-four spots are to be earned at Worlds and six at Nebelhorn..

Not sure why folks are dismissing Hiwatashi. He wasn't stellar at Nats but he can generally be depended on to skate in the 220-240 range. He has come through at big events as well; he was respectable at 4CC and he won Jr. Worlds.

Hiwatashi has been known to score below 220.

Tomoki Hiwatashi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Karen-W]

There should be about ten available Olympic spots at Nebelhorn: six plus requalfication spots for US, Canada, Korea and France (if placements stay the same). Ice is slippery, but our skater needs to have a double meltdown (all skaters make it to fs) not to qualify a third spot. That said, I'm not sure I would send Vincent on this mission.

Well, there should be

24 spots should be allocated at Worlds. If the SP standings hold, this would be the allocation, which equals 24 exactly:

3 = Japan
2 = USA*, Russia, Italy, China,
1 = Canada*, Korea*, France*, Czech Republic, Latvia, Belarus, Switzerland, Israel, Sweden, Georgia, Ukraine, Mexico, Estonia

The countries with * will be vying for an additional spot from one of the 6 spots available at Nebelhorn.

There are some scenarios that could result in some countries gaining or losing spots (if Rizzo and/or Yan finish 13th or lower while Grassl and/or Jin finish 16th or lower then Italy and/or China would drop to 1 spot), likewise, Russia could gain the chance to compete for a 3rd spot at Nebelhorn if Kolyada or Semenenko move up 1 placement); and Canada, Korea & France could all lose the opportunity to compete for a 2nd spot at Nebelhorn if Messing, Cha or Aymoz finish out of the top 10. And if Brezina and/or Vasiljevs were able to move into the top 10 then the Czech Republic and/or Latvia would gain the opportunity to compete for a 2nd spot at Nebelhorn).

It's possible that there might be only 22 or 23 spots awarded which would mean there are 7 or 8 available at Nebelhorn. I can't see there being 10 up for grabs. It would take some pretty wild fluctuations from the current standings - of course, these are the men we're talking about and there is only a 9.5 point gap between 11th and 23rd. More significantly, there's only a 1.5 point gap between 15th & 19th, and just 4.5 points between between 12th & 19th. All of these guys are capable of really making this very interesting.

 

[sjs5572]

If I understand the rules correctly, twenty-four spots are to be earned at Worlds and six at Nebelhorn.

Six plus the qualification spots. See explanation on Rockerskating twitter.

 

[toddlj]

No need to panic at this point. We're worried the US does not have a man who can finish top 6 at Nebelhorn? Really?

And if we have no one who can do that, we don't deserve the spot anyway.

 

[Karen-W]

Not sure why folks are dismissing Hiwatashi. He wasn't stellar at Nats but he can generally be depended on to skate in the 220-240 range. He has come through at big events as well; he was respectable at 4CC and he won Jr. Worlds.

I've thrown his name out there in a couple of different discussions about who the US could send and I think he would be a solid choice.

 

[Karen-W]

Six plus the qualification spots. See explanation on Rockerskating twitter.

Please read the ongoing discussion in this thread - reading the actual document, whatever Jackie's sources are telling him is incorrect. It's been an topic of conversation all afternoon due to the Pairs results.

 

[sjs5572]

Please read the ongoing discussion in this thread - reading the actual document, whatever Jackie's sources are telling him is incorrect. It's been an topic of conversation all afternoon due to the Pairs results.

Ok, thanks. Of course, the document could have been written incorrectly; with the ISU, who knows?

 

[Karen-W]

Ok, thanks. Of course, the document could have been written incorrectly; with the ISU, who knows?

Well, the problem with "well it was written incorrectly" is that even if the intent was different, it's pretty clear how the spots are allocated and the ISU would open themselves up to a CAS case by any country that is screwed by not getting the placements as earned at Worlds per the language in the document.

 

[misskarne]

Why does the ISU make things so complicated?

They changed it largely in response to the debacle that was Pairs spots last time...perhaps ironically, also involving the US. (And France.) I am sure there were other reasons also, but that would seem to be the main driver.

 

[Jammers]

This is just total nonsense with these new rules. If Nathan and Jason combined finish less then 13 the US should be given 3 spots for the Olympics just like in the past simple as that none of this bullshit of having to qualify for the 3rd spot at Nebelhorn.