U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[Spun Silver]

What sense would there be in quitting right after she gets a 3A??

 

[DimaToe]

What sense would there be in quitting right after she gets a 3A??

Well acquiring such a difficult jump at a “later” age is difficult, maintaining that jump even more so. Just because she has it now doesn’t mean she would have it for future seasons.

 

[AxelAnnie]

What sense would there be in quitting right after she gets a 3A??

She can go out on a high with a great footnote. She still gets ur calls. And staying too long at the party is so very sad.

 

[aftershocks]

... And staying too long at the party is so very sad.

I don't disagree. But if you stay longer than everyone else, maybe you get to clean up the joint.

 

[mag]

I don't disagree. But if you stay longer than everyone else, maybe you get to clean up the joint.

Love it!

(Of course, I do hope Mirai calls it a day when she is ready to do so. Going out on her own terms would be the best.)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I don't disagree. But if you stay longer than everyone else, maybe you get to clean up the joint.

Mirai has had such a long career filled with devastating lows and amazing highs, this may be her best season in a while.

 

[aftershocks]

(Of course, I do hope Mirai calls it a day when she is ready to do so. Going out on her own terms would be the best.)

Mirai has had such a long career filled with devastating lows and amazing highs, this may be her best season in a while.

Yes indeed, ITA with you both. I will sit back and try to stay cool while I watch this season's party revving up to rock 'n roll.

 

[Spun Silver]

She can go out on a high with a great footnote. She still gets ur calls. And staying too long at the party is so very sad.

That's what you thought about V/M's comeback. Just saying....

 

[analia]

US doesn't have 10 competitive juniors coming up. Not even one, actually. Mirai can stay as long as she wants.

 

[AxelAnnie]

That's what you thought about V/M's comeback. Just saying....

I think that about all athletes..

 

[Spun Silver]

I think that about all athletes..

I'm always for the older ones staying as long as they can. Not that I have any particular reason or anything. Go, Venus!

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm always for the older ones staying as long as they can. Not that I have any particular reason or anything. Go, Venus!

Go Fumi!

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Mirai being realistic about this being the last Olympics she'll likely be competitive. But considering she's hitting her stride right now at the ripe "old" age of 24, I'm not going to count her out.

ITA! Three 3A's ratified at age 24 and getting better every day! Imo she still has at least a couple of more seasons in her!

Wishing Mirai a great skate at her first GP the Rostelecom Cup!

 

[Wyliefan]

US doesn't have 10 competitive juniors coming up. Not even one, actually. Mirai can stay as long as she wants.

You don't think Emmy Ma is competitive?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

US doesn't have 10 competitive juniors coming up. Not even one, actually. Mirai can stay as long as she wants.

Was Gracie Gold ever on the junior scene much? I just don't remember much of a career on the junior scene but I know she must have been...

 

[Cleo1782]

Was Gracie Gold ever on the junior scene much? I just don't remember much of a career on the junior scene but I know she must have been...

She didn't qualify for Nats in Junior in 2011, but by fall of 2011 she had a ton of buzz via summer comps. She got sent to 1 jgp (she was added way too late to the ISP) and won, but I believe it was the last one so they couldn't send her again. She won Junior Nationals and was second to Yulia (and beat Adelina) at JW the same year. She got sent to the WTT that same year which was unprecedented for a junior lady. So no, she didn't have a long junior career, but it as a good one and she was clearly ready for seniors by 2013. And she was absolutely the talk of Nationals the year she won Juniors-because I think Ashley won seniors and Alissa was second, but Hicks who won junior the year before was out with a broken leg and the seniors that year weren't that inspiring and Alissa had that epic meltdown at worlds.
Michelle Kwan won JW in 1994, but was already a senior lady. I think she was 6th or something the year she competed junior domestically, but you know, second in senior in 94 so she didn't have an outstanding junior career, but back then it didn't matter much.

 

[DimaToe]

You don't think Emmy Ma is competitive?

When it comes to the junior level. I think making the JGPF is what can qualify you as “competitive” while Ma didn’t reach that level I believe that domestically she is quite competitive given what she has shown so far this season. @analia does make a point that we don’t have juniors constantly pushing the veterans to either up their ante or leave the sport, while we have had skaters like Gold, Chen, and Edmunds deliver respectable results at a younger age, we haven’t had a lady be competitive for a GPF/World/Olympic title at 16 or 17 years old. Which the top programs right now (Russia/Japan) haven’t had much of a problem doing.

 

[Cleo1782]

When it comes to the junior level. I think making the JGPF is what can qualify you as “competitive” while Ma didn’t reach that level I believe that domestically she is quite competitive given what she has shown so far this season. @analia does make a point that we don’t have juniors constantly pushing the veterans to either up their ante or leave the sport, while we have had skaters like Gold, Chen, and Edmunds deliver respectable results at a younger age, we haven’t had a lady be competitive for a GPF/World/Olympic title at 16 or 17 years old. Which the top programs right now (Russia/Japan) haven’t had much of a problem doing.

I agree. I like Ma, but I don't consider internationally competitive. I mean the JGP doesn't always mean a lot (I think skaters like Becky Bereswell and Alexe Gilles won the JGPF), but with the intense depth of the Russians-which you have to imagine a few will survive to senior-Ma just isn't at that level. That doesn't mean she can't grow into it, but she needs a consistent 3-3. "Older skaters" like Ashley and Mirai even Gracie and Mariah Bell have no reason to stop skating when they don't really have any up and coming competitors.

 

[Vagabond]

Success at the Junior level is vital to further success!!!

Just look at the careers of Michelle Kwan and Oksana Baiul!!! Need I say more?

 

[Cleo1782]

Success at the Junior level is vital to further success!!!

Just look at the careers of Michelle Kwan and Oksana Baiul!!! Need I say more?

Well to be fair Michelle at least won junior worlds, but you know it didn't help Cindy Bortz or Jessica Mills or anything (totally dating myself)

 

[oleada]

Success at the Junior level is vital to further success!!!

Just look at the careers of Michelle Kwan and Oksana Baiul!!! Need I say more?

Michelle was a world junior champion
I know you're joking, but the Junior series is much more established now than it was then. All the current world champions in every discipline were junior world champions. In ladies, Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Asada, Kim, Kostner (so basically all the recent Worlds/Olympic champions) were successful juniors. Even Ashley, the most successful US lady in recent years, was a successful junior skater. Not all successful skaters had good junior careers but many did. So in that sense, it is concerning. It is concerning that we don't have one skater who can beat the top Russians, Japanese or Korean consistently.

I'd have to agree that Emmy isn't particularly competitive. She's a joy to watch, and incredibly musical, but her jump technique is questionable and her content is far below the top junior skaters. Her PCS should be deservedly high, but her technical content lags.

 

[toddlj]

Michelle was a world junior champion
I know you're joking, but the Junior series is much more established now than it was then. All the current world champions in every discipline were junior world champions. In ladies, Medvedeva, Tuktamysheva, Sotnikova, Asada, Kim, Kostner (so basically all the recent Worlds/Olympic champions) were successful juniors. Even Ashley, the most successful US lady in recent years, was a successful junior skater. Not all successful skaters had good junior careers but many did. So in that sense, it is concerning. It is concerning that we don't have one skater who can beat the top Russians, Japanese or Korean consistently.

I'd have to agree that Emmy isn't particularly competitive. She's a joy to watch, and incredibly musical, but her jump technique is questionable and her content is far below the top junior skaters. Her PCS should be deservedly high, but her technical content lags.

Agreed that it is concerning. I think there is a (remote) possibility that one of our (currently underperforming/recovering from injury) dark horse juniors might do well at junior worlds this year. I'm curious as to Vivian Le's progress, for example. Or maybe Tessa Hong will finally put it all together? Kaitlyn Nguyen certainly has the jumps.

 

[her grace]

I agree. I like Ma, but I don't consider internationally competitive. I mean the JGP doesn't always mean a lot (I think skaters like Becky Bereswell and Alexe Gilles won the JGPF), but with the intense depth of the Russians-which you have to imagine a few will survive to senior-Ma just isn't at that level. That doesn't mean she can't grow into it, but she needs a consistent 3-3. "Older skaters" like Ashley and Mirai even Gracie and Mariah Bell have no reason to stop skating when they don't really have any up and coming competitors.

Bereswill won the JGPF; Gilles did not. Bereswill had a fantastic skate there, landing a 2a-3t before that was common.

I think there's a difference between being an internationally competitive junior and being able to compete with American seniors. I mean Bell wouldn't be competitive with the current junior international field either. Ma's SB is higher than Bell's and close to Hicks'. Andrews looks promising. Lin and Nguyen are both too young for senior internationally, but seem to be on the right track. Liu is too young for junior internationally, but has begun to create some buzz about herself. Not to say that the seniors should retire, but there are skaters coming up who should be able to compete with them domestically.

 

[DimaToe]

Success at the Junior level is vital to further success!!!

Just look at the careers of Michelle Kwan and Oksana Baiul!!! Need I say more?

Well Wagner medalled twice at Junior worlds, and medalled at the JGPF, Nagasu also medalled twice at junior worlds and won the JGPF, while there are expections. Junior level competition does given some sort of an indicator of what’s to come, its not like skaters such as Kim, Asada, and Medvedeva were under achieving at the Junior level.

 

[Sylvia]

She didn't qualify for Nats in Junior in 2010

In 2011. Gracie won the pewter medal in Novice at 2010 Nationals.

Based on their JGP performances and results this fall, the I feel the U.S. ladies are demonstrating positive signs of improvement as a whole and hopefully their progress will continue. USFS sent out 8 different ladies this year (5 6 debuted on JGP) and many of them are landing clean 3-3 combos.

I'm curious as to Vivian Le's progress, for example.

Vivian Le is scheduled to compete in Senior Ladies at SWP Regionals this weekend. She doesn't have any ISU minimum technical scores because she hasn't competed internationally since the fall of 2015. My hope is that she is relatively healthy and can qualify for Nationals this year.

 

[Cleo1782]

Bereswill won the JGPF; Gilles did not. Bereswill had a fantastic skate there, landing a 2a-3t before that was common.

I think there's a difference between being an internationally competitive junior and being able to compete with American seniors. I mean Bell wouldn't be competitive with the current junior international field either. Ma's SB is higher than Bell's and close to Hicks'. Andrews looks promising. Lin and Nguyen are both too young for senior internationally, but seem to be on the right track. Liu is too young for junior internationally, but has begun to create some buzz about herself. Not to say that the seniors should retire, but there are skaters coming up who should be able to compete with them domestically.

Sorry you are right. I was literally going of memory. Bell was an okay Junior. She was 5th the year Gracie won (I think-too lazy to look up) but she was beaten by Ashley Cain who was 2nd and Hannah Miller who was 3rd. But then 2nd to Polina the next year.
I am not impressed by any of the junior skaters in the US but that could be a good thing because they could impress me as seniors. I am just saying we had a long line of promising juniors in the mid to late 2000's and nothing really became of them outside of Wagner, Nagasu, and Flatt. Even Caroline Zhang never reached her true potential.

 

[Cleo1782]

In 2011. Gracie won the pewter medal in Novice at 2010 Nationals.

Based on their JGP performances and results this fall, the I feel the U.S. ladies are demonstrating positive signs of improvement as a whole and hopefully their progress will continue. USFS sent out 8 different ladies this year (5 debuted on JGP) and many of them are landing clean 3-3 combos.

Vivian Le is scheduled to compete in Senior Ladies at SWP Regionals this weekend. She doesn't have any ISU minimum technical scores because she hasn't competed internationally since the fall of 2015. My hope is that she is relatively healthy and can qualify for Nationals this year.

Sorry I edited my post once I realized my mistake about Gracie even before you pointed it out. I was going off memory, but thanks

 

[Vagabond]

(totally dating myself)

Never date yourself when you can be dating other people.

 

[clairecloutier]

I'd have to agree that Emmy isn't particularly competitive. She's a joy to watch, and incredibly musical, but her jump technique is questionable and her content is far below the top junior skaters. Her PCS should be deservedly high, but her technical content lags.

I'm a big fan of Emmy, obviously, but you're correct in the sense that her current technical package is not enough to win JGPs. She's currently competing with only 3 different triples and no 3/3 combo. The fact that she's as competitive as she is, with that level of content, speaks volumes as to the overall quality of her skating. Let's see how her jumps develop over the next year--I'm hoping for good things.

 

[DimaToe]

I'm a big fan of Emmy, obviously, but you're correct in the sense that her current technical package is not enough to win JGPs. She's currently competing with only 3 different triples and no 3/3 combo. The fact that she's as competitive as she is, with that level of content, speaks volumes as to the overall quality of her skating. Let's see how her jumps develop over the next year--I'm hoping for good things.

You’re completely right but I think that her current coaching situation might not be the most ideal to become competitive in the top level of skating when it comes to the technical mark. While it’s obvious that Mitchell/Johansson have guided her quite well when it comes to presentation, I believe that there’s also evidence that the jumping technique they teach isn’t the most ideal when it comes to mastering the most difficult jumps out there. I think Ma would greatly benefit from taking the Chen/Zhou approach of having more than one main coach.