U.S. Ladies [#19]: Do You Know the Way to San Jose?

[NAOTMAA]

The last thing we need is another American lady heading into nationals with more pressure on their shoulders but I really hope Bradie can hold it together and win a medal. She skated her SP with more attack and freedom then any American lady has done so far during the GP. A real breath of fresh air

 

[RD]

Interestingly enough, Ashley won PCS by a whole point. But those jumps were really bad. I wonder whwat's up with her? She just seems not to have that spark this year. I know a few people here blame it on her "old age" or "peaking two years ago." I think it's something else - it seems like the fire's left her.

She's been doing this 10 years.

But I don't think the longevity is the problem - I think it is just her lack of consistency on the jumps and her competitive mindset continuing to let her down. It's been the one constant throughout her career. It also can't help if she is dealing with small injuries (something about her ankle I heard?), as well as pre-Olympic commitments.

As for fire - I think it's still there. She likes performing - you can tell. We'll have to see if there's anything left in that tank of hers, but first she has to believe there is for it to happen.

 

[RD]

The last thing we need is another American lady heading into nationals with more pressure on their shoulders but I really hope Bradie can hold it together and win a medal. She skated her SP with more attack and freedom then any American lady has done so far during the GP. A real breath of fresh air

Not sure if it would do her any significant favors (in terms of hype and pressure)...FWIW she seemed a bit shy in the post-SP interview. Clearly not used to being in the spotlight. Things change!

That said, if she does succeed in winning a medal, and Wagner/Chen continue to flounder, suddenly she's in the conversation for the Olympic team...

 

[NAOTMAA]

Interestingly enough, Ashley won PCS by a whole point. But those jumps were really bad. I wonder whwat's up with her? She just seems not to have that spark this year. I know a few people here blame it on her "old age" or "peaking two years ago." I think it's something else - it seems like the fire's left her.

The weird thing is after she won the silver at worlds her skating suddenly took a big dip. It wasn't some slow and steady progression but it felt sudden. Like the kind you see from someone who sick or suffering physically

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

As we'd say Down Under, Ashley skated pretty well for an old sheila!

All kidding aside, I read she has been having ankle issues. Hope she's okay.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Did anybody else notice that the graphics displaying Karen's SP music still listed the Moulin Rouge program?

fans clearly aren't the only ones trying to keep up with all the sudden changes

 

[AxelAnnie]

The weird thing is after she won the silver at worlds her skating suddenly took a big dip. It wasn't some slow and steady progression but it felt sudden. Like the kind you see from someone who sick or suffering physically

Nah...she took a rest on her laurels. Can't do that in later life of a skater

 

[mag]

Just rewatched Ashley. No way that was a L4 steps. Simply not enough full body movement for the final bullet.

 

[skatfan]

Ashley is 26. If she'd won her World's medal in 2000 or even 2005, she'd have turned pro and shimmied her way into some good money. By 2016, there wasn't much else to do if she wanted to skate.

She admitted in Lake Placid that she hadn't really worked on her conditioning all that much until the last few weeks (when her ankle pushed her off ice for a while? unclear) and her reputation is that she takes out the spins when she does her run-throughs, which will not give her a real idea of what she needs in the tank to finish her programs. But hey, without Gracie around, she's the face of Ladies figure skating for the US, and a great interview.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Ashley usually comes back stronger in the long. Her jump issues are concerning but that ankle has to be affecting her.

Yeah but whats so frustrating (well at least for me) is that all the practice reports was that she was powerful and clean on everything.. and then goes to compete and it the usual 2-foots and URs.... sigh.....

OK, stay strong ANL....positives.. I think Bradie will be National Champion and her Ash and Mirai make the team. Karen is a solid no I feel.

I think Bradie comes on strong in US skating a la Gracie Gold 5 years ago..... STRONG jumps that aren't under review, consistent and ice-princessy!

 

[binbinwinwin]

I heard about the solid practice reports but Ashley is having ankle issues isn't she? On IceNetwork they said it kept her off ice for 4 days and she only had about 1.5 weeks of training.

 

[RD]

Hmm. I don't remember Gold ever being consistent even back when she started out in seniors...

 

[Frida80]

I’m feeling smug and bummed at the same time. I mentioned weeks ago that Bradie was looking good. She didn’t disappoint here at all. Solid landings and nailed it. I hope she can keep it up tomorrow. Her consistency is a breath of fresh air.

Karen was hard to watch but not at all surprising with another program change. This was poor planning all around for her team. She mentioned early this season that she wanted to keep her short, but was pushed to take a new one. This is just frustrating to see. I’ll wait until Golden Spin to decide, but I don’t think she’s going to regain her form this year. Too many programs, not enough focus on jumps.

Ashley is a big disappointment, though. She knew that her jumps were underrotated from SC. She should’ve focused on nailing that program. Instead she made the exact same errors.

During Worlds 2016,Ashley did that competition injured. Clearly the injury took away from her training time and changed her jumps. But I really though she’d fix them by now. If she isn’t convincing tomorrow, I don’t know what to think. Unlike everyone else, she was little excuse for this. She’s been working on her jumps for the last year. These are repeat programs. She’s supposed to be a shoo in for the team. What guarantee do we have that she will be better by worlds to help us keep our spots? Bradie and Mirai have shown clear improvement. I want to trust her to rise to the occasion, but I don’t know if I can. Hopefully tomorrow she can give me hope again.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I think (and at this point hope) that Bradie becomes National Champion AND GOES to 4CC to get one more shot of exposure with international judges. And I want Mirai to go as well.

I couldn't decide in August if I was gonna go with Amber Glenn (as a lot of my posts once mentioned) or Bradie that pulls the ole-Polina-Edmunds from 2014. But I knew one of them would for sure! The ones with the least pressure usually rise.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hmm. I don't remember Gold ever being consistent even back when she started out in seniors...

Medaling at all(most) her GPs? If you don't think Gold was consistent 5 years ago I can't even imagine what you must think of today's Mirais, Ashleys, Courtneys and Karens.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The weird thing is after she won the silver at worlds her skating suddenly took a big dip. It wasn't some slow and steady progression but it felt sudden. Like the kind you see from someone who sick or suffering physically

In some ways Ashley's medal felt like a lifetime achievement award. As soon as she made the podium in Boston, the drive it took to get there wasn't needed any more.

 

[Frida80]

I feel like the bulk of Ashley’s drive for this quad was proving to the world she was a great skater after the disaster of nationals 2014. She accomplished step one when she won nationals again in 2015. Then she went back to the same arena and won a world Silver, the first medal of any kind for the US of any kind in decade. After that she declared she proved to the haters that she shouldn’t retire and what a great skater she was.

Sometimes stark memories can become our drive. But what happens when that stigma from that moment is gone? Ashley has nothing to prove anymore. She has no Gracie to rival her anymore. I’ve thought this for a while, but I wonder if she’s simply spinnind her wheels rather than pushing towards another goal she’s even more passionate about. I just don’t know anymore.

 

[VGThuy]

I love Karen’s skating to death, but that performance was foreseeable after the announcement that she was going back to her old programs. This is showing a real lack of confidence and very poor planning on her team’s side. I don’t know what’s going on, but I would think an experienced coach would have reigned Karen in and told her to concentrate on what matters most now. Maybe she’s this inconsistent in practice as well and also can’t do a program that has all fully rotated jumps and there’s not much they can do for her and so they think letting her think it’s the programs that need to change is the magic ticket to better performances. I’m no skating coach but that seems like a recipe for disaster and a real sign that the coach doesn’t know what she’s doing. I’m going to stop hoping for things for Karen because I can’t take the stress and just wish her the best because I know what an excellent and amazing skater she can be. This is just so disappointing all-around.

 

[RD]

Is it truly drive Wagner is missing - or has she simply peaked physically already (despite what she might be saying now) and now, with the Olympic season breathing down her neck, is desperately trying to re-create magic that just may no longer be there?

I think having a serious rival in Grace Gold helped to push Wagner domestically and keep her on her toes at all times. With Gold out, now it's almost as if Wagner has that spotlight to herself (they're trying to share it with Chen too, but she's not stepping up to it)...and it's freaking her out...

As for Gold's early consistency...Gold laid an egg on her first senior SP I remember (at least in the SP)...she was also shaky in the SP at nationals that year if I recall...I will say this about her though. She tended to deliver when it counted most, in 2013 and again at the Olys. But consistent...have a hard time calling her that. Reliable though, perhaps. Up through 2016 she put out solid, if not spectacular, results at worlds to help the US keep 3 spots.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I kind of like Courtney's free skate this season though.

 

[mtnskater]

Excited about Bradie! But please get her away from Scott Brown. His programs are terrible. It was the same for Gracie Gold. Bradie reminds me a lot of Gracie. An athletic talent. Needs to develop her artistry with top level choreographers....stat!

Karen...so sad and Disappointing. First of all, she looks out of shape...not at her fighting weight at all. Come on....this is the Olympic year. What is going on??? Changing programs like your clothes is idiotic. If her coaching team can't reign this in...time to find a new team. Too much talent wasting away. How about Brian Orser's group?

Ashley. Love her, but this is the same stuff we've been getting since 2016 Worlds. Wish she could find the fire.

Why are U.S. Ladies so inconsistent

 

[skatfan]

Karen...so sad and Disappointing. First of all, she looks out of shape...not at her fighting weight at all. Come on....this is the Olympic year. What is going on??? Changing programs like your clothes is idiotic. If her coaching team can't reign this in...time to find a new team. Too much talent wasting away.

Agreed. What coaching team allows a skater to have 2 SPs and 4LPs in an Olympic year? Not Frank Carroll, or Tom Z or any of a number of coaches I can think of.

It looks like she hit puberty and probably has to rework technique. Which means having all those new programs is particularly insane.

 

[FSfan107]

Excited about Bradie! But please get her away from Scott Brown. His programs are terrible. It was the same for Gracie Gold. Bradie reminds me a lot of Gracie. An athletic talent. Needs to develop her artistry with top level choreographers....stat!

I gladly would have kept the Gracie that worked with Oleg and Scott Brown. That's when I fell in love with her skating. Sure Bradie can try other choreographers if she wants to, but I hope TPTB don't try to get her to switch coaches ala Gracie. Bradie's technique seems fine.

 

[VGThuy]

Yeah just leave Bradie alone and let her do her own thing. We need a lady who can consistently land fully rotated triples right now. Yes, that’s where we’re at this season.

 

[Spun Silver]

I’m getting flashes of black-suited fast-talking men whisking Bradie off and asking her over and over, “Do you want to be a gladiator?” like at the beginning of Scandal.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I love Karen’s skating to death, but that performance was foreseeable after the announcement that she was going back to her old programs. This is showing a real lack of confidence and very poor planning on her team’s side. I don’t know what’s going on, but I would think an experienced coach would have reigned Karen in and told her to concentrate on what matters most now. Maybe she’s this inconsistent in practice as well and also can’t do a program that has all fully rotated jumps and there’s not much they can do for her and so they think letting her think it’s the programs that need to change is the magic ticket to better performances. I’m no skating coach but that seems like a recipe for disaster and a real sign that the coach doesn’t know what she’s doing. I’m going to stop hoping for things for Karen because I can’t take the stress and just wish her the best because I know what an excellent and amazing skater she can be. This is just so disappointing all-around.

I agree... why is her coach allowing this..

BUT...HAVENT we seen this behavior with Karen before.. this is a problem with her..

wasnt last years headlines that she went through 12 pairs of boots? This years she going through programs instead.. and the coach allows it.

There is a deeper issue here with this pattern of changing and switching..... and it definitely aint being addressed....

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Bradie reminds me a lot of Gracie. An athletic talent. Needs to develop her artistry with top level choreographers....stat!

Yup, me too!

Healthy jumps that require no microscope from judges, a bit bland, a bit ice-princessy, knows how to get a job done, and with conviction.

Now lets see if she stays that way!!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Again the issue with Karen wasnt the program or a need to switch to a different program. It is The JUMPS and nerves. Switching to POTO for Golden Spin wont be what she needs but assistance on the jumps. Karen's coaching team seems a bit clueless.


Didn't Kerry just abort from Gambill?

And isn't Zhou splatting just like Karen? just sayin.

 

[Willin]

I think Bradie looked great, but also like every other US Lady who comes into Skate America as the unknown, unfocused on variable - solid and energetic. I know she's fairly consistent, but I worry that if she gets any hype she'll face the fate of many a promising US lady and crash and burn. Well, either that or she'll kill it at Nationals, go to the Olympics, and then struggle next season. I really like her skating, but because US ladies are US ladies I always try not to hold out too much hope or overhype them.

As for Karen, I think she's not going to win Nationals or make the Olympics this year, but she might win the competition for biggest headcase. I can see no other reason for her trying to find new and innovative ways to "fix" her real problem (consistency) every season - whether it be going through 14 pairs of boots or having 4 free skates in a single season. I just have no idea what her team is thinking.
Don't skirt the issue by making excuses, try to focus on fixing her competition nerves. Her team has admitted that she gets nervous, but never seems to think it's the major problem causing her to fall. They need to see it as the primary cause of her struggles and act accordingly. Send her to more competitions, have her see a sports psychologist, keep her away from the local news media, keep her expectations low (to keep the pressure off), have her train with her top competitors regularly, have her get an overly strict coach to keep her on her toes, have her train in unfamiliar arenas, etc.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Bradie has apparently worked hard to come back from some spinal injury issues. Irrespective of any results her skating generates from here on, just knowing she is still skating is enough of a reward for me.