U.S. Ice Dance 2016/17 season - news & updates

[VGThuy]

Also, at the point the Shibs skated, there wasn't the exact pressure of needing to keep the spots on them (like Karen or S/K had), only one team had underperformed so far. They didn't need to medal to keep the spot, either, they only needed to come in 6th or 7th.

Of course, that was easy to do. Oh wait.

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Of course, that was easy to do. Oh wait.

That's not what I was saying, I guess I misunderstood your post to say they had to medal to keep the spot.

 

[jlai]

Of course, that was easy to do. Oh wait.

The reason no one mentioned the three spots is because US dance is the strongest discipline of the four, so no one actually sweated that one, even though I sweated a bit earlier this season when H/D was consistently getting below 70 in that SD. Those three spots were never in doubt.

Anyway, I expressed the same depression over Nathan underperforming as certain US ice dancers underperforming, but added a congratulatory note for US men nonethess just to keep certain non-fans from piling on Nathan. I actually felt for Nathan the same way I felt for Evan B and Zach.

So just to be fair to all US team members, congrats to Shibs, Karen Chen, and everyone else who performed well enough to earn US spots.

 

[her grace]

The Shibs are the only American dance team that will be seeded next season. Both Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue are going to be at the mercy of the draw next season. This makes the two non-Shibutanis spots at Skate America very interesting. Does USFS send either Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue with the purpose of having them contend with Shibs and see who comes out on top? Do they send either C/B or H/D to have them squashed by the Shibs to signal that Shibs are the definitive U.S. #1? Do they send two of the younger teams like Hawayek/Baker, Pogrebinsky/Benoit, Parsons/Parsons, or McNamara/Carpenter to give the Shibs an easier path to the top and let Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue try to earn GP qualification in away events?

 

[Dobre]

The Shibs had loads of pressure before they skated their FD in Finland. They had their #1 national ranking on the line (for the fifth time this season), and we all know how much it sucks to be #2 or #3 in ice dance. The Shibs know it better than anyone. I'm really impressed with how they've handled the pressure of leading this very, very deep U.S. dance field. And impressed with how Chock & Bates have kept fighting and clawing their way up every time they seem like they're out. And impressed with how Hubbell & Donahue have battled their way into the final group with a #3 national ranking. I think--at this point--all these teams have earned their own international standing. The Shibs were the U.S.'s rock at the Away Game. You never make assumptions about placements in Europe based on placements in North America (or at a GPF without all the players). Just like you never make assumptions about placements in North America based on placements earned in Europe. This is why Hawayek & Baker's loss to Guignard & Fabbri at Golden Spin was a big deal. They had a great international season this year, but would almost 100% have been outside the top ten here. You never take anything for granted in sports. And you don't leave medal-contending dance teams on the bench at a major international. Mistakes/injuries/illnesses happen. This was just one of those dance events you delete from your DVR and nominate for Team Trainwreck-type threads years down the line.

 

[jlai]

The Shibs are the only American dance team that will be seeded next season. Both Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue are going to be at the mercy of the draw next season. This makes the two non-Shibutanis spots at Skate America very interesting. Does USFS send either Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue with the purpose of having them contend with Shibs and see who comes out on top? Do they send either C/B or H/D to have them squashed by the Shibs to signal that Shibs are the definitive U.S. #1? Do they send two of the younger teams like Hawayek/Baker, Pogrebinsky/Benoit, Parsons/Parsons, or McNamara/Carpenter to give the Shibs an easier path to the top and let Chock/Bates and Hubbell/Donohue try to earn GP qualification in away events?

YIkes. The politiks down the road.

 

[Jessica]

As usual Dobre--great post.

I'm sorry that some posters have trouble congratulating the Shibs on their bronze medal because they're disappointed or can't get excited about them because C/B and H/D had problems. I'll admit I'm a big S/S fan. However, I'm American and want all US teams to do well. I felt really bad for C/B and especially H/D but that takes nothing away from the Shibs winning a medal. I say Congratulations Shibs. You saved the U. S.

 

[jlai]

As usual Dobre--great post.

I'm sorry that some posters have trouble congratulating the Shibs on their bronze medal because they're disappointed or can't get excited about them because C/B and H/D had problems. I'll admit I'm a big S/S fan. However, I'm American and want all US teams to do well. I felt really bad for C/B and especially H/D but that takes nothing away from the Shibs winning a medal. I say Congratulations Shibs. You saved the U. S.

I think if someone opens a thread congratulating the Shibs, people including me will post there. But if someone argues that "you didn't congrat the Shibs enough!", then people will argue the point like FSUers do.

 

[Jessica]

I think if someone opens a thread congratulating the Shibs, people including me will post there. But if someone argues that "you didn't congrat the Shibs enough!", then people will argue the point like FSUers do.

Why would someone open a separate thread to congratulate the Shibs? They already have their own fan thread. This thread is all about U. S. ice dancing. The Shibs are U. S. ice dancers and obviously are discussed here. I wasn't "arguing" about anything. I was merely stating my disappointment that some posters couldn't bring themselves to congratulate them on their bronze metal--nothing more.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

It takes two teams to get the 13 points for 3 spots, so the Shibs didn't do the job all on their own. C/B nailed the SD and held it together after the mistake in the FD, making sure their score didn't suffer any further. Good job by both teams to keep our streak in ice dance going.

 

[Dobre]

Good job by both teams to keep our streak in ice dance going.

Yes, and ultimately the Shibs & H/D's combined scores would have done the job too. The U.S. has a tremendous group of dance teams heading into PyeongChang.

 

[shuilee]

The poor US team (Chock or Hubbell) that gets assigned Cup of Russia will surely be buried by politiks to 3rd place. If I were Madison, I'd take my chance and hope to get Skate America to be assured of at least 2nd place. I think Chock or Hubbell could take down W&P, B&S or C&L for silver at Skate America.

Not sure how the GP draws work, but can USFSA find some way to avoid Cup of Russia for Shibs, Chock or Hubbell? I feel like Americans will totally get low-balled in that particular GP event.

 

[jlai]

Really? Didn't C/B win the short there? Of course they made mistakes in the fd

 

[TanithandBenFan]

The scoring of B/S in Russia is what's problematic. Both their SD and their FD scores increased by six points between SA and Rostelecom this year. That's quite an improvement over the course of two weeks when they made no major errors at SA. In an Olympic year, I expect even more of a push for them to win the event.

 

[clairecloutier]

If USFSA decides to assign 2 of the top 3 teams to Skate America again, I would think Chock/Bates would have the inside track, since Hubbell/Donohue already got that assignment this season.

Rostelecom Cup . Ain't gonna be pretty for any North American team who skates there next season.

 

[VGThuy]

It's really sad that all of us knowledgeable ice dance fans can talk about Rostelecom Cup and hoping there was some way all three of our teams can avoid it because most are in agreement about what's going to happen there and yet not sound like we're talking about a crazy conspiracy but rather something very plausible. If that's not a perception of ice dance as a legitimate sport, I don't know what is.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's hard for me to be all for the Shibs because it feels like they just avoided getting hit by a train. I'm still nervous for them, and the event is over.

 

[Debbie S]

I suspect the Shibs will be the seeded team that gets CoR, since V/M and P/C have priority in choosing, and neither of them is going to want to go there. Do the host feds have a choice of the 7-12 place teams? If the Russian fed wants to bury another U.S. team and keep them out of the GPF, C/B would be the logical choice.

 

[Dobre]

It's the U.S. that should spread out our top teams. We can't control what happens in Russia. We can make certain none of our top teams are subjugated under another one nationally.

The GPF is in Japan.

The Shibs just need to get there.

 

[firstflight]

It's hard for me to be all for the Shibs because it feels like they just avoided getting hit by a train. I'm still nervous for them, and the event is over.

You are right to be nervous as I am. Chock and Bates would have beat them in the FD (over 111) without the twizzle mistake, giving them a comfortable lead overall. I'm annoyed by the inconsistent messaging to the Shibs, especially in the PCS.

 

[jlai]

As a casual dance fan, this politik discussion is making my head hurt. Since I want to enjoy the ice dancing at nationals, 4cc and the olympics, I think I will just read pbp and not much else from here on....

 

[SidelineSkater]

Do we know the order of the GP's this year? Sometime that impacts scheduling and picks for seeds. Skate Canada is 1st and Skate America is last - and Cup of China is before NHK.

 

[leigh466]

It's hard for me to be all for the Shibs because it feels like they just avoided getting hit by a train. I'm still nervous for them, and the event is over.

I was definitely not all over the moon like last year, because I discovered during the event that over the course of the past year I had apparently switched allegiances unbeknownst to me even! I will always remain a Shibs fan and, of course, am thrilled that they got another well-deserved World medal (despite my sadness over the blown opportunity for H/D). I still have not seen anyone explain why/how their score dropped 5 points from 4CC?

 

[Jammers]

Surprised to see the US dance teams struggle like they did this year at Worlds they always seem to get it done when it counts but for two US teams to finish behind B/S is . I bet this will light a fire under them.

 

[Debbie S]

Very few teams got a SB or PB at Worlds. The judging overall seemed conservative. But the actual points matter less than how each team compares to the other. The Shibs lost points in the SD b/c of the missed levels in their partial step seq. They also seemed a bit slow (and I think Tanith and Ben noted that) which would affect PCS. Overall, they had the 4th best PCS in the SD (slightly less than C/B and about 1 point more than H/D) and the 3rd highest PCS in the FD. Remember, they also had a 1-point deduction in the FD for an extended lift (which they also had at Nats).

 

[her grace]

The scoring of B/S in Russia is what's problematic. Both their SD and their FD scores increased by six points between SA and Rostelecom this year. That's quite an improvement over the course of two weeks when they made no major errors at SA. In an Olympic year, I expect even more of a push for them to win the event.

OTOH, it could be argued that Bobrova/Soloviev were lowballed at SA in favor of Hubbell/Donohue. USFS politiks, too. They're no

The hardest event for non-seeded skaters could be SC with both seeds being fantastic home skaters.

 

[skatingguy]

The hardest event for non-seeded skaters could be SC with both seeds being fantastic home skaters.

No guarantee that Weaver/Poje will get Skate Canada - probably they won't skate there. My preference would be, since all three Canadian teams are guaranteed 2 GP slots - Virtue/Moir at Skate Canada along with two other teams and have Weaver/Poje and Gilles/Poirier at two other events - hopefully not the same events.

 

[Debbie S]

The hardest event for non-seeded skaters could be SC with both seeds being fantastic home skaters.

Do you think W/P will choose SC? They didn't this year. I would think they wouldn't want to go up against V/M or G/P until their Nats.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Although it's not in the Announcement, a lot of people here have stated that 1-3 get to choose their events in order of placement after the host picks are done, since hosts are under no obligation to take two of the top three from other countries.

After that, for each discipline, there's a draw for selection order. They go through the rounds in that order for each selection group. When all of the host picks are done, and let's assume 1-3 are already distributed, they then go to the 4-6 group. If the host whose turn it is to select already has someone from that group from host picks, they skip that round and go to the next in line until all the 4-6 group have two spots. Repeat for 7-10 And 11-12 for singles and 7-10 for Pairs and Dance (If the rules stay the same). Then the Top 24 SB and WS without two from Worlds placement, if they're age-eligible and skating senior, until each gets the guaranteed one. Then the Top 75 or fewer, that have the GP minimums.*

Somewhere in there are the Comeback and Returning skaters/couples and Split couples, and the Jr. Worlds podium and JGPF champions (if age-eligible and turning senior), who aren't guaranteed spots, but get them anyway. I don't remember reading anyone give a definitive answer about the order.

So for the Russian Fed to singlehandedly try to bury any team, at least outside the top 3, they'd have to be high in the randomly chosen selection order for Dance or be dealing with the other host Fed's to do so.

 

[Dobre]

I still have not seen anyone explain why/how their score dropped 5 points from 4CC?

The Shibs had a level 4 step sequence in the free at 4CCs. (The great separator. Very few level 4s were handed out to any teams on the steps this season. The Shibs had one in the SD at the GPF as well. Those are their SB scores in each dance for the season). That's @ 1.5 points base value, but with added GOE about 3 points. Then a point for the length of the lift deduction. The rest of the difference looks like GOE on the other step sequence.

Teams that earned level 4 step sequences this season:
V&M have a bunch, largely in the SD. It has made the bulk of the difference for them this season.
Shibs have 2.
Papadakis & Cizeron have 2.
Hubbell & Donohue have 2. (Both earned at Worlds).
Chock & Bates have 1.
Cappellini & Lanotte have 1.
Ilinykh & Zhiganshin have 1.

That's it. Those are the only ones I know of for any teams internationally all season.

In comparison, there were twenty-three level 4 step sequences handed out at Worlds alone last season. (And the irony is that last season, there was only one step sequence in the SD, while this season there are two).

EDIT: I should add that my list above is limited to senior dance. Level 4s have also been handed out for steps in the junior field this season.