"The Runthrough" podcast with Adam & Ashley

[Willin]

@Jarrett You obviously haven't been at a rink for a busy freestyle. Yelling at kids to get off the ice and ushering them off isn't exactly uncommon... Usually it's a coach, but sometimes the older skaters will do it as well. I've even seen coaches or older skaters get hands on skaters to get them off the ice - not violently, but certainly putting a hand on them to gently push them towards the door.

If they haven't "sought a resolution" it's probably because their behavior isn't unusual or they don't even remember it. Most skaters don't find this behavior wrong, or at least we don't find it wrong enough for it to be dirty laundry aired for the public on social media. If she's speaking her truth, the more appropriate way to do it would be to contact them privately and ask to speak to them. NOT to send a social media army to harass them and try to get them cancelled.

I think that's why many people are side-eying this. There's no context to it, it's a claim that could easily be quite exaggerated, and it's a common sight at rinks. That and while if what she said about the level of behavior is true they should rightfully apologize, this is definitely a really bad look and a bad way to do it. This is a normal conflict at rinks that is usually settled privately if at all.

 

[skateboy]

I've never bought into Ashley Wagner being some very erudite or likable person tbh.

Neither have I.

 

[Jarrett]

@Jarrett You obviously haven't been at a rink for a busy freestyle. Yelling at kids to get off the ice and ushering them off isn't exactly uncommon... Usually it's a coach, but sometimes the older skaters will do it as well. I've even seen coaches or older skaters get hands on skaters to get them off the ice - not violently, but certainly putting a hand on them to gently push them towards the door.

If they haven't "sought a resolution" it's probably because their behavior isn't unusual or they don't even remember it. Most skaters don't find this behavior wrong, or at least we don't find it wrong enough for it to be dirty laundry aired for the public on social media. If she's speaking her truth, the more appropriate way to do it would be to contact them privately and ask to speak to them. NOT to send a social media army to harass them and try to get them cancelled.

I think that's why many people are side-eying this. There's no context to it, it's a claim that could easily be quite exaggerated, and it's a common sight at rinks. That and while if what she said about the level of behavior is true they should rightfully apologize, this is definitely a really bad look and a bad way to do it. This is a normal conflict at rinks that is usually settled privately if at all.

You don't have to live in a rink to know this happens. You can watch this happen at any skating competition practice to see people getting in the way of right of way skaters however as those events the skater are usually of similar level and age. How many 11 year olds are dropped off at the rink solo for a session. I'm hoping not many. I'm sure Ashley and Adam and handle the cancel nation since they live off social media. They are grown adults in their 30s. If they did it so many times they can't remember that speaks to them more than anything. Maybe they can address is about etiquette at the rink on one of their podcasts.

 

[Willin]

@Jarrett A lot of 11-year-olds are dropped off alone at rinks. Not a whole day, but certainly for a few hours. If you’re there all the time like all these skaters were it’s not that unusual.

And I’m not saying they did this so many times they forgot. I’m saying this is such a common thing to see and do in general that it’s not going to stick in most peoples’ minds or be something you see as apology-worthy even if you do it only once.

And if my problem is that she called them out over this and got the drama started on social media, I think it would be much classier or better if they apologized in private and simply ignored the issue publicly. Maybe a public apology. Otherwise they’re part of the same problem: rehashing and airing old drama that isn’t appropriate to rehash publicly.

 

[kwanette]

If someone has time..could you summarize the situation? I did not see anything on social media. about the yelling incident. TIA..

 

[Rukia]

who among us has not had to yell at a child in a session? Consider: sometimes it's a huge safety issue and these kids just don't get it.

 

[ice coverage]

Emma Tang called Ashley and Adam out for screaming at her to get off the ice when she was 11. She did it as a comment on Ashley's post about healing.

Like everyone else in this thread, I have no way of knowing of what did or did not actually happen on ice in this particular instance, so I will never know whether any screaming at the then-child was or was not warranted.

I am not a skater, but I can understand in general terms that in the event of an unsafe situation, yelling would quickly and forcefully get a child's attention.

What stood out to me in the skater's Instastory (now expired) is that she said they not only screamed at her and chased her off the ice, but also told her to never come back.
If I were eleven years old, I think the "never come back" part would have been the most upsetting, and I wonder whether it made the child feel (both back then and now upon reflection in adulthood) that the older elite skaters had crossed a line?

 

[jägerbomb]

I get Gen Z and some millennials believe no one can change and people should be cancelled for everything they did ever, but that attitude only makes you look bad. People should be allowed to grow, change, and heal.

Oh this is 95% a Gen Z thing. Not millennials.

Honestly, this hit-and-run insta story makes Ashley more relatable.

 

[Willin]

Oh this is 95% a Gen Z thing. Not millennials.

Honestly, this hit-and-run insta story makes Ashley more relatable.

The most Gen Z (and tacky) of this whole debacle is this:

Ashley posted "I'm trying to heal and like skating again." (She posts this content a lot, and has talked about her struggles with skating and past personality/conflict issues.) Then out of nowhere that skater comes up, reposts it, and says "She was a terrible person to me once."

It's just so uncalled for, but so young internet user. I see it all the time on social media with lots of different people. "I don't care if they are trying to heal. They did this terrible thing 20 years ago! **** them!"

Like, if someone's posting about trying to be a better person and get over past trauma, respect that. Don't insult them and invite people to flame them.

 

[On My Own]

Everyone is allowed to heal. Apart from Lim Eunsoo who was a bullying teenage bitch who got her karma when her career crapped out.

Oh and it's also extremely funny to make fun of Kim Yuna's broken English about her Canadian coach from when she was 19.

/s

Good for Emma Tang for calling them out. Not that I believe it will affect anything, it will be the same "let us heal" and the rest of the delusional trash coming from these people, who lie about 'growing'.

 

[On My Own]

ISU's new motto should have been "skate on, together, to heal". It'd have been a modern day Hare Krishna Movement, a real lost opportunity!

 

[VGThuy]

I have to say I find Michelle Ellis (the one doing the ice dance lore) to be a much better storyteller with a more pleasing podcast voice than the regulars.

 

[On My Own]

It's very disgusting that someone would attack their voices when they're #trying to #heal. Tonsil treatment is very expensive in the States, how dare someone criticize their voices?

I hope they set up a GoFundMe for it soon, I can't bear the constant criticism they get, including maybe for whatever therapy they need so that by the time they hit 50, they can finally behave like normal people!

 

[VGThuy]

I don’t understand why Emma Tang is getting some blowback here. She had an experience that was obviously pretty memorable for her, and not in a good way, and part of healing is taking accountability to past wrongs and hurt you cause. They do it for 12 steps or AA too.

Sure, making it public to invite the social media masses to go after you may be side-eye worthy, but we all know about the “healing” journey because it was made public. That’ll invite public comment, and I don’t think Tang’s was unreasonable. It wasn’t just that she was yelled at when she was 11, but that she was told by both Adam and Ashley to never come back. Whether they are right or wrong to do so can be addressed by them, if they even remember the incident.

 

[VGThuy]

Just started part 4 of the ice dance podcast and I agree with Michelle Ellis that the Shibs’ 2016-2017 FD to “Spiegel im Spiegel” (with sections of the Leftovers soundtrack) is their best work. Totally underrated program. It was best skated at 2017 Four Continents.

ETA: I can’t understate how far back I’m rolling my eyes at the 2018 Olympics segment. The irony of accusing a team of being petty and unprofessional when….

 

[leilaofpaper]

Just started part 4 of the ice dance podcast and I agree with Michelle Ellis that the Shibs’ 2016-2017 FD to “Spiegel im Spiegel” (with sections of the Leftovers soundtrack) is their best work. Totally underrated program. It was best skated at 2017 Four Continents.

ETA: I can’t understate how far back I’m rolling my eyes at the 2018 Olympics segment. The irony of accusing a team of being petty and unprofessional when….

I wasn’t following the sport in 2018, what’s ironic?

 

[CassAgain]

I knew this episode was going to ruffle some feathers…

 

[Debbie S]

Using official Oly practice ice to film content (beyond a quick photo) for social media is not only unprofessional (and disrespectful/distracting to your teammates who are trying to practice), it may very well be against Oly rules. I remember C/B said they weren't allowed to record their podcast at the Olys....I'm guessing it fell under the definition of media, even though they weren't making any money from it.

Obviously, all the athletes are posting pics and brief vids....there's probably a thin line between personal content and media, it would depend on the exact wording of the rules. Spending several minutes creating content on official Oly practice feels borderline questionable.

And I will note that the podcast was very complimentary about the Shibs programs and said they were excited about their comeback, so I don't think anyone can say they have it out for the Shibs.

 

[cheremary]

For those of us who haven't had time to listen yet, what did they say on the podcast?

 

[VGThuy]

Using official Oly practice ice to film content (beyond a quick photo) for social media is not only unprofessional (and disrespectful/distracting to your teammates who are trying to practice), it may very well be against Oly rules. I remember C/B said they weren't allowed to record their podcast at the Olys....I'm guessing it fell under the definition of media, even though they weren't making any money from it.

If it’s even true. Michelle Ellis admits she “heard”. Sounds like one of unsubstantiated rumors from the skating fandom on Twitter, which Michelle Ellis is clearly a big part of as she admitted it on the podcast. Even if it were true, Michelle didn’t say they were filming on the ice or were in anyone’s way.

So apparently, they left their own practice session 3-5 minutes early at the Olympics to film off ice, and still won the bronze? Amazing. Imagine what they could have done if they practiced the entire time.

Obviously, all the athletes are posting pics and brief vids....there's probably a thin line between personal content and media, it would depend on the exact wording of the rules. Spending several minutes creating content on official Oly practice feels borderline questionable.

Someone should have reported them then if they were so bothered. How come this didn’t come out before? Again, I didn’t hear anyone say the Shibs were in anyone’s way, just that they left their own practice early to film.

Judging from their Olympic vlog, there was no footage published in that video where they were off filming in the practice arena and were in anyone’s way. Of course, they could have done that and not posted it, but does that sound believable? After all those years that they competed and the fact that they were there to win a medal at the Olympics?

And I will note that the podcast was very complimentary about the Shibs programs and said they were excited about their comeback, so I don't think anyone can say they have it out for the Shibs.

I wouldn’t say “very”, but once we left 2018 Olympic land, and petty talk was over where they except for Adam forgot it was a sport, the fans seemed ok.

 

[VGThuy]

For those of us who haven't had time to listen yet, what did they say on the podcast?

That the Shibs were petty for taking both spots in the team event despite them being the highest ranking American athlete at the time, and had been undefeated against C/B and H/D for about 2 years by the time Pyeongchang came out. Adam seemed to be the only one who defended it to some degree. That part was fine, it’s their opinion whatever.

But not leaving well enough alone, the devoted and active fan, Michelle (I think it was her), sneaked in a tidbit in that gossip city voice about how she “heard” that the Shibs left their practices like 5 minutes early after every session to film for their vlog and how they were “a little unprofessional”, which Ashley, who wasn’t even there (see I can be “petty” too) added “a lot”. The way Michelle said it sounded like she knew she was sneaking some rumor out there. I am suspicious of why she added that there and right after they were already in the feels about how one of the Madisons didn’t get to do the team event. It’s like when skating fans on Twitter want you to hate a skater, they push out unverified rumors that they know will get the fandom ragey and anti.

They have a right to their opinion and the tone in which they want to say it, but it just all felt ironic to me considering the words they were choosing during that segment.

 

[skatfan]

That the Shibs were petty for taking both spots in the team event despite them being the highest ranking American athlete at the time, and had been undefeated against C/B and H/D for about 2 years by the time Pyeongchang came out. Adam seemed to be the only one who defended it to some degree. That part was fine, it’s their opinion whatever.

The petty part is that all three teams were very strong, the Shibs were edged out of winning by Hubbell and Donohue at Nationals, which was really almost a tie for three top teams. They basically kept H&D from getting an Olympic team medal by doing both segments, when we were stronger in Dance than in Ladies.

 

[Debbie S]

Actually, Michelle (i thought she and Sarah, as credentialed media, were watching practices, they talked about V/M's rhumba pattern in practice) didn't say the Shibs left the practice session, she said they stopped their practice 3 minutes early to "do their social media" content. If they had gotten off the ice and walked off, I think they would have phrased it that way.

The Shibs posted a lot of content. I'm sure the content filmed at practice was shared somewhere. Unless they opted to cut it....maybe they were told they couldn't share it.

 

[aliona22]

I was interested in the comment about Bukin in 2018... did we know it was a whereabouts violation? Made me sad how his dad tried to help. I guess given the climate it was a hell of a time to miss a doping test.

 

[Willin]

@aliona22 As far as I know that was the explanation just about everyone with any in the know had said at the time, but it was never confirmed to me knowledge.

Actually, Michelle (i thought she and Sarah, as credentialed media, were watching practices, they talked about V/M's rhumba pattern in practice) didn't say the Shibs left the practice session, she said they stopped their practice 3 minutes early to "do their social media" content. If they had gotten off the ice and walked off, I think they would have phrased it that way.

The Shibs posted a lot of content. I'm sure the content filmed at practice was shared somewhere. Unless they opted to cut it....maybe they were told they couldn't share it.

I would imagine there's very serious rules at the Olympics about where the athletes can film content from. I don't think I've seen any athlete share practice ice footage - and what they do share is content made by official media. So if they did make this content one wonders if they'd be allowed to share it.

My understanding was that they did get off the ice early to film, but if they didn't... Oh, I would be so mad to share that session.

 

[marbri]

I was interested in the comment about Bukin in 2018... did we know it was a whereabouts violation? Made me sad how his dad tried to help. I guess given the climate it was a hell of a time to miss a doping test.

I feel like there was a recent video by Stepanova and Bukin where he was still playing dumb about why he was barred from competing.

To get a suspension for a whereabouts violation means you had three whereabouts violations within the 12 month period. And they are informed when that happens because it just happened in another sport and that athlete made an announcement and withdrew from an upcoming competition so their potential suspension start date would start immediately.

Not all athletes who get a suspension on those grounds are doping but some clearly are hence the rule to begin with.

 

[skategal]

I admit I rolled my eyes a lot while listening to Dance Lore episode 4.

I’m pretty sure they have lost me after that episode and I doubt I’ll listen to Women’s Lore or go back and listen to Men’s.

 

[cheremary]

I really enjoyed the men's lore episodes and found Adam to be a great storyteller - incredibly entertaining to listen to and I was pretty engaged because I knew most of the names, had seen many of the programs, and learned some additional info.

As someone who doesn't know much about ice dance history and only started following the discipline more recently, I honestly had a harder time following the earlier parts of the dance lore. Even if I knew some of the names, I hadn't seen their programs and it just felt like a ton of names all interwoven together. Michelle Ellis is a very engaging storyteller as well, but it does make me wonder how accessible all this would be for actual outsiders of the sport to digest.

Their goal was to give non-skating fans an entry point into the history of each discipline, but I'm not sure I'd recommend 10ish hours of listening per discipline to a friend who wants to casually watch skating at the Olympics. This is clearly a tremendous undertaking and I certainly appreciate their effort, but I almost hope they put out a single short episode that introduces non-skating fans to the Olympic contenders.