The Fifth ISU Grand Prix and the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final of the 2023/24 Allotted to Espoo and Beijing

[Debbie S]

I'm curious and also confused as I'm not on other social media. Is the objection to Texas because they have passed anti-Trans legislation? Or is because they have permissive gun laws?

Both. And anti-choice legislation.

 

[BlueRidge]

Both. And anti-choice legislation.

so just overall political objection.

these kinds of things don't do anything in the absence of a specific organized boycott but anything else I have to say on the subject belongs in PI so I'll just hope for a really good event in Allen in the fall.

 

[Wyliefan]

I've always liked Ashley. I very much appreciate her willingness to speak up about harassment and to help fellow skaters. That said, I think it's a little hypocritical of her to tweet about how skating saved her and opened up her world, and not to want the same thing for kids in a community that's been through something horrible and is struggling.

But we all have our faults and our blind spots.

 

[ice coverage]

In November 2022, a mass shooting killed five people at a Colorado Springs nightclub important to the LGBTQ+ community. Seventeen other victims had gunshot injuries.
305 criminal counts were filed against the suspect on Dec 6, including 48 hate crimes charges -- one for each person known to have been in the club at the time.

The tragedy took place about eleven weeks before 2023 Four Continents.
Did the mass shooting cause any outcry within the figure skating community that USFS and/or ISU never should have allowed Colorado Springs to host Four Continents -- and/or that the event should be moved to a different state?
I honestly do not remember any such reaction from Ashley Wagner or other voices.

 

[jeffisjeff]

LGBTQ+ community (please, no one correct me on whatever letters I left out of that acronym - it feels like it changes every 6 months)

You just can't stop being an a** can you?

 

[tony]

In November 2022, a mass shooting killed five people at a Colorado Springs nightclub important to the LGBTQ+ community. Seventeen other victims had gunshot injuries.
305 criminal counts were filed against the suspect on Dec 6, including 48 hate crimes charges -- one for each person known to have been in the club at the time.

The tragedy took place about eleven weeks before 2023 Four Continents.
Did the mass shooting cause any outcry within the figure skating community that USFS and/or ISU never should have allowed Colorado Springs to host Four Continents -- and/or that the event should be moved to a different state?
I honestly do not remember any such reaction from Ashley Wagner or other voices.

This is what social media posts and misinformation has been leading up to, and the black or white on the issues with no gray areas. That, and Ashley (and many others) seem to like to complain for the sake of it. All for those likes and retweets, maybe.

There was a quote earlier in this thread or another thread that I referenced, about Texas or red states having more mass shootings. False. But most people probably believe that's the case because of the lax gun control laws. I live in Florida and I repeatedly get thrown into the 'well, Floridians...' this or that, but I live in a blue area that is great for LGBTQ life amongst many other things. I don't love the state policies or leader, but it's not as if everyone here thinks the same way.

Also, since someone will probably continue this discussion, Dallas County voted for Biden over Trump by a larger margin than Las Vegas did, and Colorado Springs is a red county. Dallas even has a higher Biden percentage than Columbus, which is also in a red state. So are we going to get a full season of complaints?

 

[Karen-W]

You just can't stop being an a** can you?

Seriously, you've got issues. I was not deliberately trying to be disrespectful of the LGBT+ (etc) community, but I also didn't want this thread derailed by jacka$$e$ like you who would naturally assume that I was being disrespectful and feel compelled to jump right in and "educate/correct" me.

 

[jeffisjeff]

Seriously, you've got issues.

Yes, I think I have made it quite clear that I have issues with you. I am surprised you are just noticing now.

 

[BlueRidge]

So... Skate America... um ...

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, I think I have made it quite clear that I have issues with you. I am surprised you are just noticing now.

Bless your heart.

 

[On My Own]

So... Skate America... um ...

I want a rodeo program

 

[BlueRidge]

I want a rodeo program

oh yeah, RD = 1980s country, this works for me! George Strait, Dwight Yoakim... let's go!

 

[On My Own]

oh yeah, RD = 1980s country, this works for me! George Strait, Dwight Yoakim... let's go!

I don't know who they are, but okay!

 

[Rukia]

Y'all are really testing my ability to not go way off topic.

It feels like people are being disingenuous in both finding a reason to complain about SkAm being in Texas and support SkAm being in Texas and just please please chill. If you do not support it cool. I think our state has trash laws too and unlike you I can't escape them. If you think it's awesome here, well, good for you I guess. But please don't think you're doing us a favor either way.

Also big no to any country music I hate it with the burning passion of 1000 suns xoxo I love y'all but I will not support this. But please give me the trashiest 80s RDs you can ice dancers I want to smell your Aquanet from my seats.

 

[BlueRidge]

Also big no to any country music I hate it with the burning passion of 1000 suns xoxo I love y'all but I will not support this. But please give me the trashiest 80s RDs you can ice dancers I want to smell your Aquanet from my seats.

80s country would save the RD for me. Please just one even...

 

[Karen-W]

I want a rodeo program

I'd be down with someone using Copland too!

oh yeah, RD = 1980s country, this works for me! George Strait, Dwight Yoakim... let's go!

Also big no to any country music I hate it with the burning passion of 1000 suns xoxo I love y'all but I will not support this. But please give me the trashiest 80s RDs you can ice dancers I want to smell your Aquanet from my seats.

Hmph - Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, The Judds - they all fit your Aquanet requirement!

80s country would save the RD for me. Please just one even...

I really need some US team to give us a Dolly Parton/Kenny Rogers medley RD! I want my "Islands in the Stream!"

 

[On My Own]

Now if they'd just selected Dollywood , this "drama" could have been avoided.

 

[BlueRidge]

I'd be down with someone using Copland too!

Free Dance!

 

[RUKen]

In November 2022, a mass shooting killed five people at a Colorado Springs nightclub important to the LGBTQ+ community. Seventeen other victims had gunshot injuries.
305 criminal counts were filed against the suspect on Dec 6, including 48 hate crimes charges -- one for each person known to have been in the club at the time.

The tragedy took place about eleven weeks before 2023 Four Continents.
Did the mass shooting cause any outcry within the figure skating community that USFS and/or ISU never should have allowed Colorado Springs to host Four Continents -- and/or that the event should be moved to a different state?
I honestly do not remember any such reaction from Ashley Wagner or other voices.

????? ...and nobody suggested a boycott of Connecticut after the Sandy Hook mass shooting that resulted in the deaths of so many children and school teachers. Why would anyone?

Few, if any, of the objections to the placement of SA in Allen, Texas, are specifically because there was recently a mass shooting there. The objections are because of numerous laws introduced and passed in the state legislature, and then signed by the governor, and also because of numerous public statements by that same governor, that are seen as anti-democratic, anti-women, anti-compassion for migrant families, and anti-public safety. You may feel differently about these laws and statements and debate whether these issues should have any bearing on US Figure Skating's decision on where to host an ISU event, but to connect the negative reactions solely to the timing of a tragic, mass shooting is absurd.

 

[litenkyckling]

I have no stake in the game when it comes to SA as it’s an event I will likely never attend. That being said, I don’t think it’s fair for people to say ‘I don’t care about the politics’ and imply everyone who is concerned about the politics is a ‘Twitter SJW’. People are right to air their concerns. I personally don’t plan on making a trip to the USA anytime soon (and when I do it will purely be to visit family) because I find the state of their human rights quite appalling. Women, LGBTQ+ folks and those who are part of Black and ethnic minority communities have every right to express concern about an event happening where not every person attending has their own rights acknowledged.

Gun laws aside, I think this event should be held in a place where the competitors feel more safe to be themselves.

And before anyone mentions countries like China and Russia etc - I’d rather we never held events there either.

 

[ice coverage]

... Few, if any, of the objections to the placement of SA in Allen, Texas, are specifically because there was recently a mass shooting there.

... to connect the negative reactions solely to the timing of a tragic, mass shooting is absurd.

For the record, one of Ashley Wagner's tweets from yesterday (May 11) regarding Skate America in Allen, Texas, is copied below. Emphasis in original.

"As a state that has been WRECKED by gun atrocities recently (with no end in site) I wouldn't feel safe as an athlete competing or a fan viewing the event. SMH constantly at some of these choices lately...."

https://twitter.com/AshWagner2010/status/1656697714833342468

Not her only tweet, but one of them.

(Also:

As I indicated above, the mass shooting in Colorado Springs targeted the LGBTQ+ community -- which is a difference from the Sandy Hook tragedy.
I did not connect the negative reactions to Allen, Texas, solely to the timing of a tragic mass shooting.)​

 

[On My Own]

That being said, I don’t think it’s fair for people to say ‘I don’t care about the politics’ and imply everyone who is concerned about the politics is a ‘Twitter SJW’. People are right to air their concerns. I personally don’t plan on making a trip to the USA anytime soon (and when I do it will purely be to visit family) because I find the state of their human rights quite appalling. Women, LGBTQ+ folks and those who are part of Black and ethnic minority communities have every right to express concern about an event happening where not every person attending has their own rights acknowledged.

Gun laws aside, I think this event should be held in a place where the competitors feel more safe to be themselves.

How many countries will be left that host figure skating - or any sporting events - again?

 

[TanithandBenFan]

80s country would save the RD for me. Please just one even...

An Urban Cowboy-themed RD would be my EVERYTHING.

 

[litenkyckling]

How many countries will be left that host figure skating - or any sporting events - again?

Uh quite a few actually - I find it so odd that you take offence to this? You can enjoy the sport whilst also pushing for it to be better and for the world to be better?

 

[On My Own]

Uh quite a few actually

Name them please?

You can enjoy the sport whilst also pushing for it to be better and for the world to be better?

You can enjoy the sport however you want - I'd like the sport to actually exist in order to enjoy it.

Why do I need to push for the world to be better while enjoying a sport

If people believe they are somehow expressing support for the minorities so on and so forth by not attending skate america, then my question to them is simple - why are you watching figure skating at all, and expressing support for a sport that has known problems with sexual abuse and child abuse? And why are you watching sports at all, with many, many known issues with their treatment of athletes across the board?

 

[BlueRidge]

Momentarily curious, is Ashley or anyone else suggesting boycotting Skate America because it is in Texas?

 

[On My Own]

Momentarily curious, is Ashley or anyone else suggesting boycotting Skate America because it is in Texas?

IDK if it's organized by anyone - but in the replies to the tweet I linked earlier, some were definitely saying they wouldn't go.

 

[BlueRidge]

IDK if it's organized by anyone - but in the replies to the tweet I linked earlier, some were definitely saying they wouldn't go.

That's a personal thing, I just wondered if people were urging others not to go.

 

[On My Own]

That's a personal thing, I just wondered if people were urging others not to go.

Not seen.

 

[Rukia]

I have no stake in the game when it comes to SA as it’s an event I will likely never attend. That being said, I don’t think it’s fair for people to say ‘I don’t care about the politics’ and imply everyone who is concerned about the politics is a ‘Twitter SJW’. People are right to air their concerns. I personally don’t plan on making a trip to the USA anytime soon (and when I do it will purely be to visit family) because I find the state of their human rights quite appalling. Women, LGBTQ+ folks and those who are part of Black and ethnic minority communities have every right to express concern about an event happening where not every person attending has their own rights acknowledged.

The problem I have is that it feels like people are ignoring the very real work being done by these very groups of people here on the ground. You think we don't know it's terrible to live like this? When I say it's exhausting to live like this I mean it. But we keep going. Check out the local elections we just had. It took bipartisan efforts to keep extremists off schoolboards and city councils. But we did it. We've changed state legislature votes with calling and advocacy. I spend so many hours of my time working to raise money for groups who can do more effective state-wide work than I personally can.

I keep telling myself I'm not going to respond to this anymore but clearly I'm lying to myself hahaha. I just get so frustrated. And I don't blame anyone for saying they won't come here. I just also think people need to be very careful about what they are saying because we already have it hard enough without people just kicking us while we're down. We know it sucks, and yet we're the ones who have to keep fighting for our lives and safety.

I'm not apolitical I'm just tired and want to see some skaters. I'm sure USFS didn't have so many choices to choose from and they picked the worst option like we know they struggle for bids.

Ok now I'm done for real now. Probably. Yay skating. Carry on with your bad skating program ideas. Danny G wishes he had your creativity.