The Fifth ISU Grand Prix and the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final of the 2023/24 Allotted to Espoo and Beijing

[Andora]

You just can't stop being an a** can you?

Thank you for saying something.

@Karen-W - your disparagement of something you don't personally understand is gross. You're better than that.

 

[BlueRidge]

You gotta give me one country RD, to Gulf Coast Highway by Nanci Griffith please pretty please

Nanci Griffith - Gulf Coast Highway

Hard to believe it's been nearly 25 years since this song was written. Seems like yesterday. Emmylou has also recorded this song as a duet with Willie Nelson...

www.youtube.com

 

[On My Own]

You gotta give me one country RD, to Gulf Coast Highway by Nanci Griffith please pretty please

Nanci Griffith - Gulf Coast Highway

Hard to believe it's been nearly 25 years since this song was written. Seems like yesterday. Emmylou has also recorded this song as a duet with Willie Nelson...

www.youtube.com

Deep in the heart of Texas - Gene Autry

Deep in the heart of Texas - Gene Autry by Holiday Channel

www.youtube.com

 

[Karen-W]

Deep in the heart of Texas - Gene Autry

Deep in the heart of Texas - Gene Autry by Holiday Channel

www.youtube.com

Nahhhh - that's a little too "on the nose" even for figure skating and ice dance in particular, lol.

 

[Private Citizen]

Thank you for saying something.

@Karen-W - your disparagement of something you don't personally understand is gross. You're better than that.

She used the term LGBTQ+, which is a commonly used and inclusive umbrella term. If she disparaged anyone, it was politically correct pedants who might think her inclusive umbrella term wasn't quite inclusive enough. The letters have changed multiple times (fact), and are now long enough to be challenging for normal people to remember (opinion, with some evidence on this thread).

Uh quite a few actually - I find it so odd that you take offence to this?

Which ones? Where are these magical utopias? What are your criteria to measure women's rights? LGBTQ rights? Ethnic minority equality? What if I don't feel safe in a country that has the death penalty? Or in states where mayors, district attorneys, etc. don't enforce the laws and let criminals run free, looting, rioting, murdering? Etc., etc.

I honestly can't come up with ANY country where someone can't legitimately feel "unsafe" or "unequal" for some reason or another. I'm more disturbed by the general intolerance of disagreement than I am by anything most countries are doing, Russia and Belarus aside. I feel safer in Shanghai than I do in San Francisco or New York or even Vancouver, Canada. I'll also take my bets on Dallas / Allen over any of those places. But some people's feelings of safety matter more than others' feelings, I guess.

They're not going to be flying confederate flags or passing out Trump hats at Skate America. Skating fans spend all day in the rink and the hotel. US federal law applies everywhere. The local laws and politics of where Skate America is held really don't matter and aren't going to affect the lives of skaters, skating fans, or even tourists in general.

 

[BlueRidge]

Nahhhh - that's a little too "on the nose" even for figure skating and ice dance in particular, lol.

Its a wee bit out of date too.

My father used to sing that when I was a little kid (he was from Detroit but served in the Army in Texas) its the root of my fascination with Texas "The sage in bloom smells like perfume, deep in the heart of Texas" But I'll go for "Its the only place on earth blue bonnets grow."

 

[Frau Muller]

Has there ever been a mass shooter at a figure skating competition in the US before?

Uh…there was a club wielder in Detroit-1994.

 

[VGThuy]

This is what social media posts and misinformation has been leading up to, and the black or white on the issues with no gray areas. That, and Ashley (and many others) seem to like to complain for the sake of it. All for those likes and retweets, maybe.

There was a quote earlier in this thread or another thread that I referenced, about Texas or red states having more mass shootings. False. But most people probably believe that's the case because of the lax gun control laws. I live in Florida and I repeatedly get thrown into the 'well, Floridians...' this or that, but I live in a blue area that is great for LGBTQ life amongst many other things. I don't love the state policies or leader, but it's not as if everyone here thinks the same way.

Also, since someone will probably continue this discussion, Dallas County voted for Biden over Trump by a larger margin than Las Vegas did, and Colorado Springs is a red county. Dallas even has a higher Biden percentage than Columbus, which is also in a red state. So are we going to get a full season of complaints?

People really need to stop thinking of these things solely by state lines. It’s really much more complicated and a great proportion of the population and what they’re trying to fight for within those lines get ignored no matter which party you belong to. I blame media coverage and the electoral college maps for perpetuating the idea that everything goes by state lines.

 

[Coco]

Ashley's been frustrated by other decisions of USFS lately and that is I'm sure contributing to her reaction.

 

[PRlady]

Honestly, if representation matters and it does, I’d think there’s some good in putting a sport with a lot of out gay stars in a place like Texas. People aren’t going to get more tolerant by going to the rodeo. The non-fans I’ve dragged to live skating usually end up impressed despite themselves with the athleticism of the sport.

 

[Dobre]

So... Skate America... um ...

Well, we could discuss something politically significant like ice dancing & whether Green & Parsons are going to get shafted & sent to Skate Canada to go up against Lajoie & Lagha in their own backyard for the third season in a row, because Hawayek & Baker didn't attend Worlds & aren't seeded & therefore, might need the second berth at SA. (Really, this shouldn't be a problem for H&B, seeing as how so many of the Russian teams should be utterly off the GP invite lists. Surely China & Japan at least could take them . . . but this being ice dance, I realize one should never underestimate the likelihood that any country other than Japan will value SB ranking over how various host teams would drop a spot if a top unseeded team is invited).

Also, between Hawayek & Baker, Wang & Liu, Smart & Dieck (& the possibility of the top Russian teams), that's a lot of experienced unseeded ice dancers heading into the June announcements. On top of which, there could be retirements beyond Muramoto & Takahashi. Usually, I do a rough draft of where I think dance teams might end up. This season, that feels a lot more ???

ETA: I'm remembering that Smart's last finish at Worlds was 7th, not 6th, so I think they don't really meet the criteria to be invited at all. (Though I won't be remotely surprised if they are).

 

[Karen-W]

Well, we could discuss something politically significant like ice dancing & whether Green & Parsons are going to get shafted & sent to Skate Canada to go up against Lajoie & Lagha in their own backyard for the third season in a row, because Hawayek & Baker didn't attend Worlds & aren't seeded & therefore, might need the second berth at SA. (Really, this shouldn't be a problem for H&B, seeing as how so many of the Russian teams should be utterly off the GP invite lists. Surely China & Japan at least could take them . . . but this being ice dance, I realize one should never underestimate the likelihood that any country other than Japan will value SB ranking over how various host teams would drop a spot if a top unseeded team is invited).

Also, between Hawayek & Baker, Wang & Liu, Smart & Dieck (& the possibility of the top Russian teams), that's a lot of experienced unseeded ice dancers heading into the June announcements. On top of which, there could be retirements beyond Muramoto & Takahashi. Usually, I do a rough draft of where I think dance teams might end up. This season, that feels a lot more ???

ETA: I'm remembering that Smart's last finish at Worlds was 7th, not 6th, so I think they don't really meet the criteria to be invited at all. (Though I won't be remotely surprised if they are).

Oh, I have thoughts about this entire post... I'm going to operate under the assumption that both Chock/Bates and Gilles/Poirier are staying in (I have my doubts about GilPoir, but that's an entirely different discussion).

Hawayek/Baker are in both the WS and SB Top 24, so I fully expect they will get 2 spots - and I actually think they're going to be the sacrificial lambs sent to SCI, not GreenP. The chances of a fully healthy HawBak taking 2nd over Fear/Gibson are decent, and they certainly won't finish behind Lajoie/Lagha. I do think their 2nd assignment will likely be CoC or NHK.

GreenP are seeded by virtue of their 6th place finish at Worlds, so I think the USFS will make sure they're assigned to SkAm - especially if ChoBat stay in, strategically, it makes more sense to select GreenP as the 2nd seed than to pick FBSoer or FearGib.

There are only two Russian teams who would be eligible for GP assignments (SinKats and StepBuk). ZagGuer's best Worlds finish was too long ago to qualify for a "Return Couple" assignment, and DavSmo have never competed at Worlds.

Wang/Liu aren't even guaranteed 1 GP assignment - they're going to drop out of the WS Top 24 (if they aren't already) and their SB is 28. They'll probably get two, since China is back to hosting, and I'm sure the Chinese fed will ensure that they get another assignment.

Smart/Dieck qualify for the selection pool as a "Return Split Couple" by virtue of Smart/Diaz's 7th place finish in Montpellier. The new team is added to the SB list using SmaDia's score from 2022 Worlds, which would put them 13th. I'm not sure they'll get two assignments, though I'm fairly confident they'll get at least one - getting two might depend on a few other teams who are guaranteed 1 or 2 clearing out and not competing next season.

 

[Dobre]

But will SC invite Hawayek & Baker without having to do so? There's the Montreal connection, of course, but H/B are a problem for the Canadian teams. SA would have to offer Canada something, I think. Easier for Cup of China & SA to just swap invites for H/B and W/L. (NHK has invited H/B four times. I'd guess they would again).

 

[Karen-W]

But will SC invite Hawayek & Baker without having to do so? There's the Montreal connection, of course, but H/B are a problem for the Canadian teams. SA would have to offer Canada something, I think. Easier for Cup of China & SA to just swap invites for H/B and W/L. (NHK has invited H/B four times. I'd guess they would again).

Well, pretty much all of the fields are going to be stacked, regardless of who gets assigned where. I think some of where HawBak wind up will depend on whether teams like ChoBat and/or GilPoir retire/sit this coming season out or not.

 

[Dobre]

Well, pretty much all of the fields are going to be stacked, regardless of who gets assigned where.

If Stepanova & Bukin, Sinitsina & Katsalapov, and Hawayek & Baker all return, then yes, everywhere might have an extra unseeded team capable of medaling at a GP. But that remains to be seen. If Hawayek & Baker are the only unseeded GP finalists returning and particularly if Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen are the top Canadian team at SC with another top 4 seed from Worlds, I do not see SC inviting Hawayek & Baker.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

No sence blaming Texas or any red state. The senseless violence - mass shootings, cop killings of minorities, etc. - is a national blight. My fellow liberals have turned a blind eye to it as much as weathy Republicans in Orange County or Seven Hills, Cleveland. As Obama said there is just not the will to do anthing about it. Don`t know what it will take.

 

[Vagabond]

Has there ever been a mass shooter at a figure skating competition in the US before?

Why exactly has this become an issue all of a sudden, when this has always been a thing in the US?

The issue isn't just the risk at the event itself. It's also in the environs. And don't imagine that sporting federations ignore the risk of street crime (not necessarily homicides) when selecting competition venues.

 

[exNyer]

does the USFS contribute revenue in order to cover the costs of holding these events?

Do these offended skaters accept financial support from residents living in these unacceptable states?
Some skaters give lessons to earn money. I’ve read that junior & senior level skaters need $50-100k per season for 10+ years to cover costs. A select few are eligible for Fed support. Even fewer earn prize money. It’s very difficult to believe that those part time teaching jobs even begin to cover the expenses of elite skaters.

 

[BittyBug]

does the USFS contribute revenue in order to cover the costs of holding these events?

No. The cost of hosting the event is borne by the LOC.

 

[Debbie S]

No. The cost of hosting the event is borne by the LOC.

With an ISU event though, it may be USFS that is the LOC. SCOB was the LOC last year, since it was at their facility, and they've been the LOC for Worlds they've hosted/will host, but in terms of the bid packages USFS has on their website, I believe those are all domestic events, not int'ls. Dallas FSC may be helping with the event but I'm not sure they are the LOC of record.

 

[Dobre]

No sence blaming Texas or any red state. The senseless violence - mass shootings, cop killings of minorities, etc. - is a national blight. My fellow liberals have turned a blind eye to it as much as weathy Republicans in Orange County or Seven Hills, Cleveland. As Obama said there is just not the will to do anthing about it. Don`t know what it will take.

This doesn't take into account recent legislation. Washington State, Minnesota, and Michigan have all taken recent steps. Others have had attempts at safety legislation stalled by gun advocates taking measures to court. Meanwhile, Texas, Florida, & other Republican-led legislatures have overturned safety requirements. These are recent changes. We are only just beginning to see the number of incidents grow and/or shrink in response.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

This doesn't take into account recent legislation. Washington State, Minnesota, and Michigan have all taken recent steps. Others have had attempts at safety legislation stalled by gun advocates taking measures to court. Meanwhile, Texas, Florida, & other Republican-led legislatures have overturned safety requirements. These are recent changes. We are only just beginning to see the number of incidents grow and/or shrink in response.

Thanks for legislative update. The trouble is we liberals see it as a problem of evil Republican states like Texas and Florida. If Dems turned this into a national mandate things could change. Instead, we do nothing.

 

[VGThuy]

Thanks for legislative update. The trouble is we liberals see it as a problem of evil Republican states like Texas and Florida. If Dems turned this into a national mandate things could change. Instead, we do nothing.

The problem is turning this into a national mandate will backfire and make those states’ rights folks become even more protective of their “rights” and more suspicious of anything mandated by “big government”. And they’ll most likely be overturned by the Supreme Court. Turning it into a national mandate would work if we had a system where amendments to the Constitution could pass by simple national-wide majority vote, but we don’t have that system at all and we all know the issues of actual equal representation with our state-specific system of federalism preventing any progress to occur.

 

[Karen-W]

The problem is turning this into a national mandate will backfire and make those states’ rights folks become even more protective of their “rights” and more suspicious of anything mandated by “big government”. And they’ll most likely be overturned by the Supreme Court. Turning it into a national mandate would work if we had a system where amendments to the Constitution could pass by simple national-wide majority vote, but we don’t have that system at all and we all know the issues of actual equal representation with our state-specific system of federalism preventing any progress to occur.

Sure, that's what's preventing progress. You're actually willing to make the argument that it's the Constitution that is preventing progress when it's worked pretty damn well for the past 230+ years, give or take... At what point do you think the Constitution stopped working? Do you even realize the assault on the Constitution that you're parroting and perpetuating?

 

[SidelineSkater]

Sure, that's what's preventing progress. You're actually willing to make the argument that it's the Constitution that is preventing progress when it's worked pretty damn well for the past 230+ years, give or take... At what point do you think the Constitution stopped working? Do you even realize the assault on the Constitution that you're parroting and perpetuating

Perhaps it’s preventing progress when our judicial system leaders claims to be constitutional originalists but then twist themselves into pretzels to shift whatever decision that best suits their conservative point of view.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Twenty-seven times the Constitution was amended, ten because without the Bill of Rights, it wouldn't have been adapted, and 15 times more, because Congress and the states decided it wasn't working, so they changed it. (I'm not counting the 18th (Prohibition) and the 21st that repealed the 18th.)

 

[Rukia]

Is someone going to skate an ode to the US Constitution program or something?

ngl that could be fire especially if it's someone not from the US I'd love to see that interpretation

 

[kwanfan1818]

Is someone going to skate an ode to the US Constitution program or something?

ngl that could be fire especially if it's someone not from the US I'd love to see that interpretation

Anissina and Peizerat are no longer skating.

 

[Rukia]

Anissina and Peizerat are no longer skating.

why are you trying to crush my dreams

 

[Wyliefan]

Anyone got Danny G on speed dial?