The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[Yehudi]

Russian fans are hysteric about Mozgov&Popova's FD. Let me tell you one thing : skating skills do matter. And they have none to speak of. She's a fantastic dancer as far as artistry is concerned, the only thing is that she's even weaker than Stepanova. And he is no Bukin.
People make me wonder sometimes.

It's a well put together program and they looked polished and sharp but I agree that their skating looks sluggish. It's a toss up between them and Evdokimova and Bazin as to who should get the second spot. Although E/B are essentially an Ilinykh/Katsalapov cover pair, their skating looks more refined than P/M.

Ilinykh and Shibnev look decent for a team that's been together for 2 months. The FD is in better shape than the SD as it masks their deficiencies better. However, he has even more work to do than Zhiganshin did, and he already had to do a lot to catch up to her level But then again, it doesn't matter. Elena could simply go out on the ice and do nothing but take selfies and her fans would still demand she be put on the World Team. Again, if Elena is happy to forget about ever winning world medals, then Shibnev is fine.

 

[thvu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10R2tPwlTbA
Finally T&J. Love the choreography, but they didn't skate it well at all to say the least.

One thing I don't like is that they aren't holding any positions long enough, or creating any memorable images. The lifts feel too short to make an impact, and the positions just aren't taking advantage of their lines and extension.

Granted, all those criticisms could just be the result this being an early outing, and they haven't had enough mileage to really showcase how good the program can be.

 

[thvu]

Russian fans are hysteric about Mozgov&Popova's FD. Let me tell you one thing : skating skills do matter. And they have none to speak of. She's a fantastic dancer as far as artistry is concerned, the only thing is that she's even weaker than Stepanova. And he is no Bukin.
People make me wonder sometimes.

I love the FD, I thought it was the best of the all the dance couples. That DiSt, though, was painful to watch. They were practically at a standstill multiple times.

 

[VGThuy]

Is there a post with all the Russian free dance test skate labeled and linked?

 

[thvu]

Is there a post with all the Russian free dance test skate labeled and linked?

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...umn-to-winter-2017.101812/page-4#post-5126974

 

[Dobre]

The lifts feel too short to make an impact, and the positions just aren't taking advantage of their lines and extension.

Someone--I think on GS, but it could be on this very thread for all I remember--said Guerreiro was dealing with an injury and they weren't doing full lifts yet. No idea if this is true, but it would explain why they aren't signed up for any early Challengers.

I think Bobrova & Soloviev's free looks good. (Though I dislike when teams put their twizzles right at the beginning before they get any speed going in the program). In any case, they're in their element. Telling a story. Kept the big lift from last season. End is nice. Definitely looks like this is the program that has been their focus thus far. Poached Agafanova & Ucar's music from last season, but it is wonderful music and not overdone. The Oblivion is used in a different way than normal, as they said it would be in their interview. Get rid of the Madison Chock dress, and I will be happy.

I also like the beginning of Stepanova & Bukin's SD. It's eye-catching and grabs my attention. The slow piece in the middle lost it, but it's early yet. There is potential there.

 

[mollymgr]

I liked the faster tempo bits of the S/D from Stepanova/Bukin. I don't like this version of Chandelier with beats added. I'm not sure that it works well in this case. The music quality didn't help with the super loud vocals.

 

[chapis]

And why Annabelle is competing in seniors? how old are they?

 

[Dobre]

Well, Russia went ahead and chose Evdokimova & Bazin for Rostelecom. We'll have to see how Popova & Mozgov do on the Challenger Series.

And why Annabelle is competing in seniors? how old are they?

Bagin has aged out of juniors. (The same age as Quinn & Michael, I believe).

 

[ninalovesskating]

SD done at US Classic!!!

H/D were awesome. Fantastic twizzles!!! I wish they would spice it up a bit more

Spanish fed gonna regret pushing S/D. Look where they are second to the last place...Give the GP spot to the national champions H/K

 

[ninalovesskating]

Well, Russia went ahead and chose Evdokimova & Bazin for Rostelecom. We'll have to see how Popova & Mozgov do on the Challenger Series.

Is this for real? I can now say that the Russian Fed has officially gone blind. I would understand Popova&Mozgov, or Ilinykh&Shibnev, or Morozov&Bagin but freakin Evdokimova&Bazin??? I'm losing my mind.

 

[RoseRed]

SD done at US Classic!!!

H/D were awesome. Fantastic twizzles!!! I wish they would spice it up a bit more

Spanish fed gonna regret pushing S/D. Look where they are second to the last place...Give the GP spot to the national champions H/K

But you have to take into account that they got their lift invalidated there, they lost 4-4.5 points in base value. Without that they would have been around what Soucisse/Firus had, maybe a bit ahead. They were fifth in PCS.

 

[levineismine]

Already after the SD at Lombardia I can officially say I am not a fan of these rhythms.
They leave very little creative freedom, no chance of staying on one song or build a coherent program.
The choreography looks similar in most of the programs and most of the time forced.

I'd rather have the random and various stuff from last year ('hip hop' and all), or some good tango.
That said, hoping for the top teams to bring something interesting!

Hubbell and Donohue's SD looks promising. I like the slow/sexy take of the first 2/3 rather than going over the top. Classy. Need to see a good definition video to judge whether it could do with more details. Not sure about the last cut of music.

 

[VGThuy]

The issue I have with H/D's SD isn't anything they did but the institutional issue of the SD which is that it felt like 3 different programs. I felt the slower rhumba section (not where the rhumba pattern is) was a totally different program from the other two and was less Latin and more of an elegant date night and then it abruptly changes to that Navka/Kostomorov music that's a bit more showy and almost tribal. I'm sure it'll have more impact as the season goes on. I sort of wish they could re-arrange a few things and end on the slower piece and have it build to a crescendo that the song has.

It'd be a lot better if there were less requirements and more time to make a coherent dance (allowing just one rhythm would do that).

 

[sap5]

That's definitely a problem I'll have with all the SDs this year (unless someone does manage to make an SD with coherence). All the ones I've seen so far are just all over the place.

 

[chapis]

SD done at US Classic!!!

H/D were awesome. Fantastic twizzles!!! I wish they would spice it up a bit more

Spanish fed gonna regret pushing S/D. Look where they are second to the last place...Give the GP spot to the national champions H/K

Omg, I can not watch it right now, what happened to S/D? A fall?

 

[sap5]

S/D had a lift disqualified.

What are the rules for the SD this year again? Why are people using 3 different pieces of music? Why can't they just use 2?

 

[thvu]

H&D left 7.0 points in levels on the table, and still scored over 70. Good sign for them this early in the season!

Edit: wrong total.

 

[chapis]

Kana and Chris second?

 

[chapis]

Wow, finally watched it, and Kana and Chris were fabulous , in my opinion they had the best program, and Kana moves really well, and very latin feel. And I think I am not the only one impressed, their video has more views than H/D. Kana and Chris must be really motivated to get that olympic spot. Someone knows what place or how many points they need in Nebelhorn to get an olympic spot?

H/B wow, they don´t look well, I think they will be overtaken by M/C and Parsons. I think it is time for a coach change.

Olivia and Adria, regardless the invalid element, they were really sloppy, especially Olivia, the twizzles very desynchronized, she had severe problems in the not touch step seq. About the invalid lifts I don´t know what happened, and they did the same in this competition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbadyFcXgjc&t=186s , there were no judges in that Quebec presentation? why did not anyone tell them to correct those problems?

H/D, I am not impressed, their past latin program was not great IMO, but they were a new team, I thought this time they would be taking more advantage from the style. And in their first set of twizzles especially, they barely move of the spot, though the synchrony was good.

 

[MarieM]

Invalid lift? Why?

 

[nimi]

Invalid lift? Why?

Copypasting my post from another forum (GS):

Rewatched the program and read the protocols more closely and I think I know what might have happened. The video is a bit blurry so it's hard to say for certain, but I think that their choreographic spinning movement (https://youtu.be/GthoZfnbDOw?t=1m35s) inadvertently became a rotational lift because Olivia's skate was off the ice for too long. Therefore the actual stationary lift later on in the program became an invalid extra element, even though it received a level 4 (hence one point deduction).

What I don't understand is that if this really is what happened, why didn't the "accidental rotational lift" receive a level and didn't earn any points? Surely it filled the requirements for level 1 or something? Is there another rule about calling lifts that I'm missing?

 

[Marta24]

Copypasting my post from another forum (GS):

According to ISU communication 2086 there needs to be at least 3 rotations for a level 1 rotational lift. In the video it looks like they only perform 2 rotations. According to ISU communication 2076 a chreographic spinning movement is allowed in the Short Dance, but since they performed two rotations and her skates left the ice it was valued as a choreographic lift. That`s at least how I understand it.

 

[nimi]

According to ISU communication 2086 there needs to be at least 3 rotations for a level 1 rotational lift. In the video it looks like they only perform 2 rotations.

Dammit. Old ISU links are mostly dead because they redesigned their site so all google gives me are dead links. Anybody got a functioning link to ISU communication 2086 (or alternatively, can tell offhand what are the minimum requirements for basic level)?

 

[chapis]

I guess it is the same like Anna and Luca at Europeans, they got 0 points for the ¨rotational lift¨ http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/ec2017/ec2017_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf

 

[Marta24]

Dammit. Old ISU links are mostly dead because they redesigned their site so all google gives me are dead links. Anybody got a functioning link to ISU communication 2086 (or alternatively, can tell offhand what are the minimum requirements for basic level)?

http://www.isu.org/communications/581-isu-communication-2086/file
The requirements for a rotational lift are on page 17. The base level only exists for the step sequences, but not for the other elements.

 

[chapis]

Well, Russia went ahead and chose Evdokimova & Bazin for Rostelecom. We'll have to see how Popova & Mozgov do on the Challenger Series.

 

[Marta24]

ITA. IMO, from the teams that were in contention for that free CoR spot, Popova/Mozgov looked the best.

 

[nimi]

http://www.isu.org/communications/581-isu-communication-2086/file
The requirements for a rotational lift are on page 17. The base level only exists for the step sequences, but not for the other elements.

Thanks!

I've never really gotten a handle on ice dance lift levels. Pairs lift levels are soooooo much easier to understand and remember... which is probably why my brain immediately went "what, not even level BASE?!?!"

 

[cocotaffy]

Now we've seen a bunch of SD between the Russian tests, Lombardia and US int'l, we get a better sense of what to look for. I have mixed feelings. I too don't understand the construction of those SD, why three music ? It's too much of a patchwork and the editing so far was not very impressive.
I also don't care much for the rhumba/slow part, they seem to drag on and frankly are a bit boring. Plus no one has brought the sensuality/steamy side of it but this might come with mileage.
The pattern is skated for such a short time, what's the point ? I would have wanted a full rink turn to get a sense of the team's ability. This is becoming a kind of OD now and I preferred the CD. Oh well ....
As for the music, I don't know much about Latin music but it seems most teams chose Latin music instead of English or American music with a Latin flavor. Couple of Russian teams had very weird and not fitting choices though. FB/S went for a 60's Austin Powers style and all I could think of was "Yeah baby" But I enjoyed seeing all those teams trying to fit the style with more or less success. So it made me wonder about V/M choices which will definitely stick out as a result but maybe more in a "they're not exactly playing the game" type of way. Seeing all those teams trying to dance on songs I've never heard is actually nice even if I don't know whether they are a good representation of what's out there in Latin Music. Anyway, let's see how V/M SD will turn out before judging it of course and we still have yet to see a bunch of the top teams.
Finally the teams. I was so surprised by M/R, boy, she can move and he is much better at this than I anticipated. Definitely, my fav SD so far. H/D have good material to build on but I do share some of the concerns about the middle section. I thought it did drag on a bit and was lacking of latin flavor and identity (which is also the case of all the other team imo) but hopefully they'll flesh out the interpretation. I love the ending and the step sequence though. I was also pleasantly surprised by Fabbri's enthusiasm and flair, unfortunately she looked quite uncomfortable. The spanish team were totally sinking, they do have poor skating skills imo. I was also disappointed in H/Baker. He has very solid SS but they seem to struggle in their partnership. With all the teams coming up the rank from junior, I would worry.
In the end, I think I might miss the Waltz and even the Paso Doble as the pattern transferred to the ice very well allowing the teams to glide and fly.