The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

sharsk8s

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434
The thing you ignore in your post is that P&C were grossly underscrored and overlooked because of french ice dance politiks.
I think everyone forgot there was a year where Didier basically blacklisted them and they were in a huge fight with FFSG, much of the reason why their senior debut season was so unsuccessful. Their coaches weren't even allowed to travel to competitions with them and they had little practice time.
 

yurokis40

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509
Let me qualify that statement, I meant from the Russian camp.
ok Savchenko and emerenko are very good, But Zach Lagha is definately the strongest junior male ice dancer skating skills wise, the still need to work on expression and connection but they know that.
 

Bigbird

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ok Savchenko and emerenko are very good, But Zach Lagha is definately the strongest junior male ice dancer skating skills wise, the still need to work on expression and connection but they know that.
I find that practically all the ice dance couples from the Svinin and Zhuk camp have very choppy skating skills.
 

Peepsquick

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292
ok Savchenko and emerenko are very good, But Zach Lagha is definately the strongest junior male ice dancer skating skills wise, the still need to work on expression and connection but they know that.
I agree with you:LL are very good but the connection is contrived. I don't feel good vibes between them. How long have they been together?
 

yurokis40

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I agree with you:LL are very good but the connection is contrived. I don't feel good vibes between them. How long have they been together?
i don`t think its contrived they are good at getting into caracters but they don`t have natural connection they have been together for 8 years but briefly split in 2015 before reuniting they remind me alot of davis and white, lots of power and speed but somewhat lacking in connection.
 

PRlady

Gutting it out
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32,017
ok Savchenko and emerenko are very good, But Zach Lagha is definately the strongest junior male ice dancer skating skills wise, the still need to work on expression and connection but they know that.
I hope you’re getting paid well for the PR. :rolleyes:
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
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Good lord, you'd think Lajoie/Lagha were the second coming of Virtue/Moir by some of these posts. Lajoie/Lagha have many strengths, but they're going to have to work for senior success just like most other newbie senior teams. They have nice technique. Their chemistry is worse than the Parsons, and they have no excuse for that. They don't interact like a senior team: she is over-the-top in expression :revenge: and he has minimal to no expression. That will stand out unfavorably at the senior level where teams are supposed to connect with each other. They're miles behind compatriots Weaver/Poje and Gilles/Poirier. Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson are also more of a complete package and Soucisse/Firus are pretty good, too. It's going to be a fight for them in Canada, let alone against the rest of the world. They will need to make a lot of improvements if they're going to have instant success.
 

starrynight

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What people forget in dance is how utterly deep the senior field is. At this year’s worlds, every team in the top 8 could have made the podium.

The top 10 is probably impenetrable.

I expect a lot of the excitement and hype about Lajoie/Lagha’s prospects has been generated by new Canadian fans from the 2018 Olympics who haven’t yet seen how the journey from juniors to seniors in dance actually works in practice. I recall very similar hype about Hawayek/Baker and it has taken 4 years of hard slog for them to get a foot hold in seniors.
 

Colonel Green

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What people forget in dance is how utterly deep the senior field is. At this year’s worlds, every team in the top 8 could have made the podium.

The top 10 is probably impenetrable.
There really is huge depth at the top. It’s especially notable at the number of teams that are angling to keep competing into their early to mid-30s.
 

Dobre

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The top 10 is probably impenetrable.
For whom? There are teams that have defeated, split results, split top scores, and/or earned higher TES or B.V. than Hawayek & Baker and Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson over the past couple seasons. (Not to mention Sinitsina & Katsalapov, Gilles & Poirier, and Guignard & Fabbri;)).
 

Colonel Green

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Regarding the top ten, the notable change this year will be the addition of a third Russian team, so there’ll be a three-way brawl amongst the third-ranked US/Canada/Russia teams with one bounced outside the top ten.

Zahorski/Guerreiro had a really rough season, but one hopes that the off-season will give them more time to turn the page.

All of which also means it’ll be that much more difficult for the various small fed teams jostling just outside the top ten to make it in. Especially because the only team currently in the top ten that might retire (barring injury) before 2022 is Weaver/Poje.
 

yurokis40

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Messages
509
Good lord, you'd think Lajoie/Lagha were the second coming of Virtue/Moir by some of these posts. Lajoie/Lagha have many strengths, but they're going to have to work for senior success just like most other newbie senior teams. They have nice technique. Their chemistry is worse than the Parsons, and they have no excuse for that. They don't interact like a senior team: she is over-the-top in expression :revenge: and he has minimal to no expression. That will stand out unfavorably at the senior level where teams are supposed to connect with each other. They're miles behind compatriots Weaver/Poje and Gilles/Poirier. Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson are also more of a complete package and Soucisse/Firus are pretty good, too. It's going to be a fight for them in Canada, let alone against the rest of the world. They will need to make a lot of improvements if they're going to have instant success.
Good lord, you'd think Lajoie/Lagha were the second coming of Virtue/Moir by some of these posts. Lajoie/Lagha have many strengths, but they're going to have to work for senior success just like most other newbie senior teams. They have nice technique. Their chemistry is worse than the Parsons, and they have no excuse for that. They don't interact like a senior team: she is over-the-top in expression :revenge: and he has minimal to no expression. That will stand out unfavorably at the senior level where teams are supposed to connect with each other. They're miles behind compatriots Weaver/Poje and Gilles/Poirier. Fournier-Beaudry/Sorenson are also more of a complete package and Soucisse/Firus are pretty good, too. It's going to be a fight for them in Canada, let alone against the rest of the world. They will need to make a lot of improvements if they're going to have instant success.
P&C didn`t exactly look like world beaters at the junior level they were gifted the bronze their final year even though they had a huge mistake and stopped mid program, nobody in the top ten at the moment with the exception of P&C Are unbeatable, L&L technical base is already stronger at their age than teams like P&C or H&D who had to move to montreal to gain it.
 

Peepsquick

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292
P&C didn`t exactly look like world beaters at the junior level they were gifted the bronze their final year even though they had a huge mistake and stopped mid program, nobody in the top ten at the moment with the exception of P&C Are unbeatable, L&L technical base is already stronger at their age than teams like P&C or H&D who had to move to montreal to gain it.
Totally different situation for P/C. What they lacked before they came to Montreal was time and space to concentrate on their skating. Once they were able to train, they could unleash their potential. What L/L is lacking for me is the connection between them and it is trickier to work on this but not impossible. If they can fix that, they will be a force to reckon with in the future imo.
 

sharsk8s

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434
I think L/L had the strongest SS of any of the junior teams last season, but they tend to make small technical mistakes throughout which cost them a lot of points. During the JGPF they didn't make the podium because of levels in their RD. Also, we can't compare teams with such different backgrounds. P/C were around the same age as L/L currently are when they won their first senior worlds. Plus who knows what they would have looked like as juniors if they had better training conditions and weren't injured at their final junior worlds. I agree that L/L along with many of the teams making senior debuts have so much potential and I am looking forward watching them next season. I am not sure if any of them will be huge podium threats this quad, but these new teams are the ones who I think will be in the fight for 2026.
 

Lara111

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367
P&C didn`t exactly look like world beaters at the junior level they were gifted the bronze their final year even though they had a huge mistake and stopped mid program, nobody in the top ten at the moment with the exception of P&C Are unbeatable, L&L technical base is already stronger at their age than teams like P&C or H&D who had to move to montreal to gain it.
I would disagree that P&C did not look strong when they were Juniors. I think they were very strong and I personally noticed them in their first Senior year when they were outside of the top ten and thought that they were great.
 

yurokis40

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509
Totally different situation for P/C. What they lacked before they came to Montreal was time and space to concentrate on their skating. Once they were able to train, they could unleash their potential. What L/L is lacking for me is the connection between them and it is trickier to work on this but not impossible. If they can fix that, they will be a force to reckon with in the future imo.
Connection is overrated Sinitsina and Katsalapov have little connection when they skate didn`t stop them from getting great results what is valued more now it looks is technique speed and movement with L&L have in spades if the french didn`t have great skating or technique their connection would not mean anything look at Gilles and Poirier their connection together improved trememdously but their lack of speed and technique hampered despite having one of the best programs this year.
 

yurokis40

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509
I think L/L had the strongest SS of any of the junior teams last season, but they tend to make small technical mistakes throughout which cost them a lot of points. During the JGPF they didn't make the podium because of levels in their RD. Also, we can't compare teams with such different backgrounds. P/C were around the same age as L/L currently are when they won their first senior worlds. Plus who knows what they would have looked like as juniors if they had better training conditions and weren't injured at their final junior worlds. I agree that L/L along with many of the teams making senior debuts have so much potential and I am looking forward watching them next season. I am not sure if any of them will be huge podium threats this quad, but these new teams are the ones who I think will be in the fight for 2026.
Levels is always at the discretion of the caller wasn`t Judy Blumberg on the Panel i seem to recall Carol Lane saying that Lajoie and Lagha were not judged fairly at the jpf despite skating 2 great programs.
 

sharsk8s

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434
Levels is always at the discretion of the caller wasn`t Judy Blumberg on the Panel i seem to recall Carol Lane saying that Lajoie and Lagha were not judged fairly at the jpf despite skating 2 great programs.
I think they have nice edges in general but they didn't hit key points or full levels on their step sequences really until jworlds. Consistency is an issue they have constantly struggled with in the last two seasons. Again, I think they are wonderful and have huge amounts of potential. I can totally see them as medal contenders in the next quad and possibly even one of the top 3 in Canada this quad. Transitions from junior to senior are very difficult. Looking at results one would've assumed S/B would have done well in seniors from the start (significantly better than P/C who they beat all throughout their junior career), but they didn't look as mature and struggled a lot more. They weren't really able to completely break through until this year (6 years after they won junior worlds). There are so many factors that go into account when a team moves up and I don't think we can predict what will happen with all these teams and how they will adjust.
 

Peepsquick

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292
Connection is overrated Sinitsina and Katsalapov have little connection when they skate didn`t stop them from getting great results what is valued more now it looks is technique speed and movement with L&L have in spades if the french didn`t have great skating or technique their connection would not mean anything look at Gilles and Poirier their connection together improved trememdously but their lack of speed and technique hampered despite having one of the best programs this year.
Not when it is borderline antagonistic ... might be a bit exaggerated but at times, I had the distinct impression that they didn't like each other much ...
 

yurokis40

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509
I think they have nice edges in general but they didn't hit key points or full levels on their step sequences really until jworlds. Consistency is an issue they have constantly struggled with in the last two seasons. Again, I think they are wonderful and have huge amounts of potential. I can totally see them as medal contenders in the next quad and possibly even one of the top 3 in Canada this quad. Transitions from junior to senior are very difficult. Looking at results one would've assumed S/B would have done well in seniors from the start (significantly better than P/C who they beat all throughout their junior career), but they didn't look as mature and struggled a lot more. They weren't really able to completely break through until this year (6 years after they won junior worlds). There are so many factors that go into account when a team moves up and I don't think we can predict what will happen with all these teams and how they will adjust.
I went and rewatched S&B final programs at junior and felt they were vastly overrated and their programs barely noticeable them being Russian and from a big federation not to mention name recognition from him have a lot to do with their results.
 

Lara111

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Connection is overrated Sinitsina and Katsalapov have little connection when they skate didn`t stop them from getting great results what is valued more now it looks is technique speed and movement with L&L have in spades if the french didn`t have great skating or technique their connection would not mean anything look at Gilles and Poirier their connection together improved trememdously but their lack of speed and technique hampered despite having one of the best programs this year.
Maybe the connection is overrated but not charisma which Katsalapov and Cizeron have but I do not see it yet in L
 

chameleonster

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To each their own. Lajoie/Lagha aren't my personal cup of tea for a number of reasons, but they have a number of strong qualities and plenty of other people find them appealing and charismatic.

I do think people who think they're going to break immediately into the top ranks are getting a little ahead of themselves, but hey, I've been wrong before.
 

her grace

standing with Mariah
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Any thoughts on who will get the 3rd host pick at SA? I would expect only 2 of the top 4 US teams to be there. Maybe C/P gets the third spot because the pickings are pretty slim below them in seniors with Manta/Johnson’s retirement and the junior teams who would have aged out have split. Or USFS might want to give someone new a chance?
 

Dobre

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Off the top of my head, currently competing teams below the top ten that have defeated or split results with Hawayek & Baker and/or Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen over the past two seasons: Zagorski & Guerreiro, McNamara & Carpenter, Hurtado & Khaliavin, Kaliszek & Spodyriev, Smart & Diaz, Lauriault & Le Gac, Soucisse & Firus.


Note: I included two seasons because often teams in this particular zone don't go head-to-head with everyone at a proximate level every season as a certain number of these teams are quite competitive but don't make it out of the more tightly-fought national championships and also because F-B&S sat out so much of this season. Fear & Gibson also got H&B on TES in the free at NHK.
 

Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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I'd expect L&L to do about as well as H&B or C&P did when they came to the senior scene these last years.

I do think L&L are surprisingly talented. Their JW FD was really something else, but right now, they're all potential. Criticisms of their chemistry are painfully valid - they already have a partnership breakup under them, and don't look like they have much rapport. They move together beautifully despite that.
 

Dobre

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I'd expect L&L to do about as well as H&B or C&P did when they came to the senior scene these last years.
Both teams moved up during post-Olympic seasons in which other teams were out and the depth of the GP fields were uneven. Provided Chock & Bates, Weaver & Poje, and Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen are all skating the GP this year, I would expect the GP fields to be deeper and for it to be more difficult to reap a medal on the GP this year. (For everybody).

As far as where L&L will fall in the dance hierarchy next season, oh who knows? We don't even know where they will fall relative to Shevchenko & Eremenko (as they lost to them twice and defeated them once this year). Probably we won't even know where L&L are by the end of the season. C&P, for example, never went up against Lauriault & Le Gac, Smart & Diaz, Soucisse & Firus, or Wang & Liu this season, much less Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen or Zagorski & Guerreiro so this coming season will still be full of new head-to-head competitions for them.

It's pretty impossible to predict how a junior team will do. (It can come down to the depth of the GP fields and how many lower-level host teams are there at your particular events. Challengers can often give you a better perspective). I mean Skoptcova & Aleshin and the Parsons both finished dead last in one of their debut-season GPs. And, you know, they finished those seasons with top 24 SBs. You start where you start. You learn, and you grow from there. (Unless you split and--often--go nowhere).
 

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