The Dance Hall 7: Tripping the Light Fantastic 2019-2020

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,692
Saw this news on Twitter just now... "Finland has a new ice dance team :) Juho Pirinen who used to skate with Viveca's sister Monica Lindfors has teamed up with Yuka Orihara from Japan. Yuka used to skate with Lee Royer [5th in Junior Dance at 2019 Canadian Nationals] and Kanata Mori."
Link to Pirinen's IG post announcing the new team: https://www.instagram.com/p/BxIG6Z7lwVf/

Orihara will turn 19 this year (IIRC); Pirinen is 23.

Lindfors/Pirinen did not compete at all last season according to their ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00101990.htm
 
Last edited:

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,962
I was thinking about it, and the RD showtunes rhythm would probably be best served if they got rid of either one of the partial step or SBS step (like in the 2015-2016 season where they just had the partial step) and instead making teams do a choreographed step since it would really help the ice dance teams choreograph more character step sequences fitting the music and characters of the shows they're dancing to. Also, anyone notice Torvill/Dean did a lot of Broadway/showtunes free dances before Bolero? I think they did three in a row prior to Bolero and even their Rock n Roll OSP was from Andrew Lloyd Weber's variations on a theme from Paganini that was used in the dance half of the West End/Broadway musical Song and Dance. Heck, Chris Dean misdirected the Duchesnays during their 1992 Olympic season by giving them two Broadway pieces (for the OD and FD) that didn't match their style.
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,585
I was thinking about it, and the RD showtunes rhythm would probably be best served if they got rid of either one of the partial step or SBS step (like in the 2015-2016 season where they just had the partial step) and instead making teams do a choreographed step since it would really help the ice dance teams choreograph more character step sequences fitting the music and characters of the shows they're dancing to. Also, anyone notice Torvill/Dean did a lot of Broadway/showtunes free dances before Bolero? I think they did three in a row prior to Bolero and even their Rock n Roll OSP was from Andrew Lloyd Weber's variations on a theme from Paganini that was used in the dance half of the West End/Broadway musical Song and Dance. Heck, Chris Dean misdirected the Duchesnays during their 1992 Olympic season by giving them two Broadway pieces (for the OD and FD) that didn't match their style.
You mean a choreo element with no levels? I think that reducing the technical content of the RD would be a real shame.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,962
You mean a choreo element with no levels? I think that reducing the technical content of the RD would be a real shame.
I think RDs are overstuffed as they are as they added more elements than before. Reducing the number of required elements doesn't mean technical content is reduced as I don't believe technical content should only be defined by leveled required elements. Even in the past, the old ODs didn't have as many tech requirements as they do now and they already got rid of the dance spin years ago so decreasing required elements is not unheard of. I recommend to make up for that, increase the value of the pattern and which ever one of the SBS/Partial Step they decide to keep and making the values between levels much wider since this past season showed that it's not like levels matter as much now thanks to the expanded GOE ranges. I remember in the 2007-2008 season where V/M made their big splash to the podium where the ISU only required a non-leveled lift and a lot of teams were able to choreograph real character-filled lifts, like Pechelat/Bourzat's lift with the fan.

In other words, I think RDs and FDs should be a bit more differentiated than they are now because they, like the SPs and LPs in the other disciplines, are becoming redundant. I also think pairs skating and ice dance is becoming a bit redundant with pairs adopting much more ice dance language in their choreography but with jumps and lifts and twists. So whatever makes ice dance look more distinct is fine by me.
 

Ka3sha

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,792
Looks like she deleted the post? The link is no longer working for me
Yes, looks like she deleted that post.
It was reposted on this account though

Re her caption:
“No matter what the future holds, I will be forever grateful. I will remember your hard work and OUR victory. But it became impossible, and it’s not my fault. You know that it was hard for me. If you think that all of this is window dressing , then no, it isn’t. We do not even say “hello” to each other nowadays, hope things are like this only for now.
Good luck to both of us, maybe it is supposed to be like this?”

Drama-drama :drama:
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,321
Nah the only junior team that will amount to anything is Lajoie and Lagha in seniors with that super montreal coaching team.
There are plenty of junior dance teams with good coaching teams. Which of them go the distance is very hard to say at such an early stage.

Realistically these are teams who will start to take centre stage after 2022, which will be a really epic mass-retirement of teams/dancers that came of age circa the Vancouver Olympics.
 

Lara111

Well-Known Member
Messages
417
I hope for S/E good senior debut next year and U/N to win JGP. I do not really see a lot of interesting US ice dance juniors next year.
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,632
I do not really see a lot of interesting US ice dance juniors next year.
Nguyen/Kolesnik? I'm assuming they are staying Junior, and I would expect them to be medal contenders at JGP/JGPF and JW. (Skategods, you did not hear that!)
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,321
I hope for S/E good senior debut next year and U/N to win JGP. I do not really see a lot of interesting US ice dance juniors next year.
Nguyen/Kolesnik would be co-favourites for JGPF and JW gold, at least based on last season.

I’m looking forward to the free-for-all on the Canadian junior dance scene. Marjorie and Zach were untouchable domestically for three years straight, now we’ll see who claims top honours when they’re gone.
 

Lara111

Well-Known Member
Messages
417
Nguyen/Kolesnik? I'm assuming they are staying Junior, and I would expect them to be medal contenders at JGP/JGPF and JW. (Skategods, you did not hear that!)
I did not forget about them. Just not very interested in this team.
I like Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer but is he aging out of Junior?
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
59,692
I did not forget about them. Just not very interested in this team.
As you have made abundantly clear. ;) I really enjoy Nguyen/Kolesnik and am looking forward to seeing them develop further. Ditto for Oona & Gage Brown.

Yes, Ayer has aged out of ISU Junior (turned 21 last month).

ETA that I believe these are the Canadian teams (not counting Lajoie/Lagha) that competed in at least one JGP last year and are still ISU junior age-eligible in 2019-20:

Natalie D'Alessandro / Bruce Waddell
Emmy Bronsard / Aissa Bouaraguia
Irina Galiyanova / Grayson Lochhead
Olivia McIsaac / Corey Circelli
Miku Makita / Tyler Gunara
Nadiia Bashynska / Peter Beaumont
 
Last edited:

sharsk8s

Well-Known Member
Messages
434
I excpect it to be D'A/W as the top canadian team with B/B and M/C being the other two to go to JW
 

Lara111

Well-Known Member
Messages
417
As you have made abundantly clear. ;) I really enjoy Nguyen/Kolesnik and am looking forward to seeing them develop further. Ditto for Oona & Gage Brown.

Yes, Ayer has aged out of ISU Junior (turned 21 last month).

ETA that I believe these are the Canadian teams (not counting Lajoie/Lagha) that competed in at least one JGP last year and are still ISU junior age-eligible in 2019-20:

Natalie D'Alessandro / Bruce Waddell
Emmy Bronsard / Aissa Bouaraguia
Irina Galiyanova / Grayson Lochhead
Olivia McIsaac / Corey Circelli
Miku Makita / Tyler Gunara
Nadiia Bashynska / Peter Beaumont
Caleb Wein with his new partner would be better off competing for Canada.
 

sharsk8s

Well-Known Member
Messages
434
yes I believe so. April 6 1998...he would of just turned 21 in April....
So weird to think many of these teams who I think of as very junior are only 3 years younger than the top world teams who seem like they have been around forever. I feel like we have been watching p/c and s/b compete senior for ages, but Gabi only turned 24 a few days ago.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,093
There are plenty of junior dance teams with good coaching teams. Which of them go the distance is very hard to say at such an early stage.
Agreed.

Realistically these are teams who will start to take centre stage after 2022, which will be a really epic mass-retirement of teams/dancers that came of age circa the Vancouver Olympics.
Difficult to know. After all, a lot of people anticipated that Weaver & Poje, Chock & Bates, and Guignard & Fabbri might not continue past 2018. It is far from impossible that several of the current top four could keep going another Olympiad. I doubt it's in most of their plans now, but it is not uncommon to go to three Olympics in dance. (None of the current top 4 from Worlds will have done this in 2022). When you are standing a step or two away from Olympic gold, the desire to continue sometimes emerges.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,440
So weird to think many of these teams who I think of as very junior are only 3 years younger than the top world teams who seem like they have been around forever. I feel like we have been watching p/c and s/b compete senior for ages, but Gabi only turned 24 a few days ago.
Alicia has been on the JGP for 3 yrs I believe since she was 13. She just turned 16 in Feb.
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,321
Difficult to know. After all, a lot of people anticipated that Weaver & Poje, Chock & Bates, and Guignard & Fabbri might not continue past 2018. It is far from impossible that several of the current top four could keep going another Olympiad. I doubt it's in most of their plans now, but it is not uncommon to go to three Olympics in dance. (None of the current top 4 from Worlds will have done this in 2022). When you are standing a step or two away from Olympic gold, the desire to continue sometimes emerges.
I wasn’t suggesting that everybody up top would immediately retire (P/C, especially, could easily do another quad, though I think that might get dicey on the political side of dance), but there’d be a lot of vacancies at the World team level, particularly for the North American teams.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,093
So weird to think many of these teams who I think of as very junior are only 3 years younger than the top world teams who seem like they have been around forever. I feel like we have been watching p/c and s/b compete senior for ages, but Gabi only turned 24 a few days ago.
And she aged up out of juniors, did she not? Or perhaps they moved up one season early? Just like @95% of the teams that have moved up off the JGP. Keep that in mind. That P&C, in their first season, did not make their own Olympic team and finished 13th at Worlds. (Behind Zlobina & Sitnikov during a post-Olympic Worlds when various major players sat out--I'm just saying this probably wasn't viewed as a future World Champion debut in seniors by the average fan). And then moved up during a post-Olympic season in which their own National Champions retired, the Olympic gold medalists had effectively retired, the Olympic silver medalists sat out, the Olympic bronze medalists split, and the Russian National Champions sat out with major injury. (Essentially the entire Russian team from the year before was gone, which does not happen prior to every dance team's breakthrough at the European Championships).

Now, climbing the ranks that year was a tremendous achievement. But there's a lot of irony in the fact that I'm seeing fan-posts complaining that other teams shouldn't be able to challenge P&C for a title. Things change. The landscape changes. Scoring systems change. Teams get better. Athletes with strong skills and good work ethic but few credentials start gaining those credentials and begin bringing in the more subjective marks they didn't get previously. Athletes get injured. Teams split and make coaching changes. Really wonky & bizarre things happen (like Meldonium bans). Dance can be deceptive. Because movement is often predictable (especially when looking backward), people often forget that it is not.
 
Last edited:

MarieM

Grumpy Cynical Ice Dance Lover
Messages
9,430
The thing you ignore in your post is that P&C were grossly underscrored and overlooked because of french ice dance politiks.
 

sharsk8s

Well-Known Member
Messages
434
And she aged up out of juniors, did she not? Or perhaps they moved up one season early? Just like @95% of the teams that have moved up off the JGP. Keep that in mind. That P&C, in their first season, did not make their own Olympic team and finished 13th at Worlds. (Behind Zlobina & Sitnikov during a post-Olympic Worlds when various major players sat out--I'm just saying this probably wasn't viewed as a future World Champion debut in seniors by the average fan). And then moved up during a post-Olympic season in which their own National Champions retired, the Olympic gold medalists had effectively retired, the Olympic silver medalists sat out, the Olympic bronze medalists split, and the Russian National Champions sat out with major injury. (Essentially the entire Russian team from the year before was gone, which does not happen prior to every dance team's breakthrough at the European Championships).

Now, climbing the ranks that year was a tremendous achievement. But there's a lot of irony in the fact that I'm seeing fan-posts complaining that other teams shouldn't be able to challenge P&C for a title. Things change. The landscape changes. Scoring systems change. Teams get better. Athletes with strong skills and good work ethic but few credentials start gaining those credentials and begin bringing in the more subjective marks they didn't get previously. Athletes get injured. Teams split and make coaching changes. Really wonky & bizarre things happen (like Meldonium bans). Dance can be deceptive. Because movement is often predictable (especially when looking backward), people often forget that it is not.
I wasn't really referring to the reason for their climb. Just in my eyes many of the junior teams seem so young (Eremenko too) but then I look at their ages and realize that P/C, S/B, even Sinitsina aren't that much older. A lot of these teams have 21 year old men (which is why they are aging out). It was of course a very different situations (p/c moved to senior a year or two before they aged out, plus the man and women were the same age) but just a little mind boggling when I realize that these men are the same age as Cizeron during 2016 worlds. Maybe it is because in a lot of the pairs with older guys the girl is significantly younger so it makes the team seem younger as a whole. Just an observation
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 15)

  • Top