Sport24: Aleksandra Trusova leaving Tutberidze for Plushenko

I suspect some of that disloyal rhetoric is directed at coaches who want to be stars and aren't rising quickly enough to suit themselves. Not that I can blame them. Everybody has to do what they think is best for their own career.
 
rfisher said:
I suspect some of that disloyal rhetoric is directed at coaches who want to be stars and aren't rising quickly enough to suit themselves. Not that I can blame them. Everybody has to do what they think is best for their own career.
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Many Russian coaches do the disloyal rhetoric. Zhulin was complaining about Ilynikh/Katsalapov being disloyal even three years after they left him. And it is not as if he was a new coach who really needed to prove himself and therefore by leaving I/K would mess up his career.

Tutberidze’s tantrums about lack of flowers, and Pluschenko’s bad mouthing his past students is another example.

And then there is Mishin. He doesn’t complain, he acts. He destroyed Lozko’s and Nugumanova’s careers.
 
hanca said:
Many Russian coaches do the disloyal rhetoric. Zhulin was complaining about Ilynikh/Katsalapov being disloyal even three years after they left him. And it is not as if he was a new coach who really needed to prove himself and therefore by leaving I/K would mess up his career.

Tutberidze’s tantrums about lack of flowers, and Pluschenko’s bad mouthing his past students is another example.

And then there is Mishin. He doesn’t complain, he acts. He destroyed Lozko’s and Nugumanova’s careers.
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Wow. It's a savage culture.
 
NAOTMAA said:
To say that Eteri doesn't pay attention to chorography is ridiculous. I don't always like what she does but it's clear they make total attempts at creating a full program. All her students have programs that have what one might called her team's "trademark style/movements " and Aleksandra's programs were full of them too.

Difference between Aleksanda and the other Eteri students is she made next to no attempt (at least after the GPF) to perform. Whatever body movements there were she did half-hearted like she was rushing and going the motions until the next jump came. She showed very little expression on the face as well. It looks like she decided "I'm not good at components so I won't even try anymore but I'm good at jumps so I'll only focus on that." That's not on Eteri, that's on Aleksanda because she's the one on ice.
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I read somewhere (perhaps an interview with Eteri, or one about her) I read that she takes each skater's: Sherbokova is a soft skater, a lyrical skater. Trusova is a strong power skater who's main strength is her jumps.

It made so much sense at the time. I wish I could find it.
And none of it meant that they should not be expanding all the elements in their programs. Of course, that is what all choreographers try to do, I suppose. But she seemed to know that one size doesn't fit all.

I wish Tursova well. I suspect she won't be around very long. Her jumps will leave her as she grows, and she will be inordinately disappointed and look for someone to blame.
 
AxelAnnie said:
I wish Tursova well. I suspect she won't be around very long. Her jumps will leave her as she grows, and she will be inordinately disappointed and look for someone to blame.
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Tuktamysheva didn’t lose her 3A after puberty. And then there are skaters who learned new jumps after puberty. Mirai Nagasu 3A....
 
Has Trusova ever expressed a desire to have a long career? I’m following the coaching switches, but honesty haven’t read many of her interviews. I have read that she likes to set world records, and her goal was to crush the competition this season. I don’t know that she has any plans to stay after one Olympic cycle. (?). As far as the coaching change, she was unhappy with the results, so she made a change. It was stated earlier that she started off strong and then seemed to go through the motions—maybe she wasn’t happy in her her current environment and ended a change. It doesn’t sound like she was poached by anyone if she made it clear she wanted a new coach twice before making this move.
 
Bigbird said:
Wow. It's a savage culture.
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I think it's the sport. Tom Z. has mentioned "officials" who lobbied him to get him to NOT work with Mirai Nagasu, making comments about her personality and work ethic. Coaches don't want to risk a skater doing better with a different coach. :(
 
Shakespeare is trembling in his grave with regret that he will never get to tell the story of the Angels of Plushchenko/Tutberidze saga. Maybe he will be re-incarnated into some new infant that will grow to write some beautiful monologues on this topic in 30-40 years, or if particularly prodigious, we can hope that we only have to wait twenty or so.
 
Skibean said:
It was stated earlier that she started off strong and then seemed to go through the motions
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I've read that but I found it confusing. One post said, "all her competitions after the GPF". So.. Euros? And maybe Russian Nationals, assuming the poster saw it. Worlds was canceled.

Also, I saw her performance at Euros and I wouldn't characterize it that way.
 
Bigbird said:
Wow. It's a savage culture.
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I don’t think it is culture. It is about the moral qualities of individuals. I am sure there have been examples of bad behaviour from coaches all over the world. In Lucinda Ruh’s book, she writes about several coaches and some of them were also pretty shocking. If I recall correctly, one of them was Nobuo Sato. Or there is also Frank Carroll, who was telling the media how Gracie threw her US team jacket to the bin...
 
Coco said:
I think it's the sport. Tom Z. has mentioned "officials" who lobbied him to get him to NOT work with Mirai Nagasu, making comments about her personality and work ethic. Coaches don't want to risk a skater doing better with a different coach. :(
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I would take that with a big grain of salt coming from Tom Z. IMHO this sounds more like him building up his own reputation and ego: "look how important I am that officials try to persuade me to do things".

I don't deny that he and Nagasu did some great work together, but I don't think she was exactly a hot commodity at the time he took her on.
 
overedge said:
I don't deny that he and Nagasu did some great work together, but I don't think she was exactly a hot commodity at the time he took her on.
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I wouldn't be surprised if other people told him taking her on was a mistake though. Or just wanted to warn him about her downsides.
 
AxelAnnie said:
True. But not the norm.
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I think it wasn’t the norm because ladies did not attempt to get 3A or quads that often. Until recently it was enough to have triple-triple combo in the SP, seven triples in the FS and skate clean, so why bother practising anything harder. Besides, it was believed that one doesn’t have a chance to get it post puberty, so why waste time on it. Same as the idea that ladies won’t be able to do quads. And suddenly we see that ladies actually can do quads.
 
hanca said:
Tuktamysheva didn’t lose her 3A after puberty. And then there are skaters who learned new jumps after puberty. Mirai Nagasu 3A....
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Well, Marai did land her triple Axel after puberty. How many times? 2 maybe. I would not consider landing a jump a few times the same as "having" the jump. And Tuktamysheva did not lose her 3A after puberty.....but did we ever see her land one pre-puberty?

The Quads.....probably too early to tell what will happen.
From NBC Sports
"Last season, according to skatingscores.com, three women – Trusova, compatriot Anna Shcherbakova and Kazakh Elizabet Tursynbaeva went clean on eight of an aggregate 19 quad attempts. "

That is less than 50%. And all three of those ladies seem to have retained their pre-pubescent figures.

Eteri is great at teaching those tiny things to jump, rotate, and land.

It will be a while until we see ho can hold on to what with boobs and hips.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Well, Marai did land her triple Axel after puberty. How many times? 2 maybe. I would not consider landing a jump a few times the same as "having" the jump. And Tuktamysheva did not lose her 3A after puberty.....but did we ever see her land one pre-puberty?

The Quads.....probably too early to tell what will happen.
From NBC Sports
"Last season, according to skatingscores.com, three women – Trusova, compatriot Anna Shcherbakova and Kazakh Elizabet Tursynbaeva went clean on eight of an aggregate 19 quad attempts. "

That is less than 50%. And all three of those ladies seem to have retained their pre-pubescent figures.

Eteri is great at teaching those tiny things to jump, rotate, and land.

It will be a while until we see ho can hold on to what with boobs and hips.
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Regarding Mirai’s 3A, considering she landed it in competitions, she must have had certain success rate. Which means she had the jump. Jumps that the skater doesn’t have a chance to land usually don’t get included in their competitive programs, they are only posted as a YouTube clip.

And about the quads, you conveniently count only Scherbakova, Trusova and Tursynbaeva. Well, there are now other ladies who have 3A and/or quads. Liu, I believe some of the Japanese ladies (don’t remember which ones they were), some Koren lady had 3A, Kostornaya 3A, and from Russian ladies Valieva, Akatieva, Zhilina... of course at this moment it is only about ten ladies who are doing those jumps in competitions, but this development in ladies skating has been around only for three years, so it will be increasing every year. There is a huge pressure in Russian ladies and that will push the sport further. Having 3-3 in the SP is suddenly not enough - one needs 3-3 and 3A. In the FS having seven triples is not enough, one needs some quads or 3A. If it was just one off from any other country, it might go away, but in Russian ladies it is like in a shark tank - each of them wants to be the one who ends up on top and the only way to do it is with 3A and quads.
 
hanca said:
I don’t think it is culture. It is about the moral qualities of individuals. I am sure there have been examples of bad behaviour from coaches all over the world. In Lucinda Ruh’s book, she writes about several coaches and some of them were also pretty shocking. If I recall correctly, one of them was Nobuo Sato. Or there is also Frank Carroll, who was telling the media how Gracie threw her US team jacket to the bin...
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Yikes.
 
zebraswan said:
These are business relationships, at the end of the day. That goes for all coach/student relationships. Life is too short to stay somewhere if you are unhappy.
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You know... I'm not very old, but I was born in the USSR - and the words "this is just business" still sound ugly for me. We were taught, that many things are more important than money. As for relations... Russians even say: "Die, but save your comrade".

"Business"? Many heads in Russia still don't work this way.
This is what TAT tells about her father:
"For the sake of this work he hadn't left the country. He was invited to be a coach of the New York Rangers, of the Swedish team - they were ready to give him all the teams and all the kids who had learned to skate. He didn't leave the country. He couldn't think he would tell the Motherland's secrets. It was not an empty phrase for him. Not his secrets. He believed they belonged to the Motherland. All the Canada used his books to study, but in the contract - when he was expected to write how much money he asks - he wrote: "as much as I deserve by results of my labour". Only a soviet man - a communist - could give such an answer! He really thought so."

TAT does understand that many heads work another way, but she is still proud, that her father answered only: "as much as I deserve". It is... like being a real jentleman. When I hear this story about her dad, I really feel respect.

You say: "These are business relationships". I understand you. Partly you are right. Yet these words sound ugly. I was born in the USSR. :)
 
overedge said:
I would take that with a big grain of salt coming from Tom Z. IMHO this sounds more like him building up his own reputation and ego: "look how important I am that officials try to persuade me to do things".

I don't deny that he and Nagasu did some great work together, but I don't think she was exactly a hot commodity at the time he took her on.
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MacMadame said:
I wouldn't be surprised if other people told him taking her on was a mistake though. Or just wanted to warn him about her downsides.
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No one talks themselves up better (or worse) than Tom Z.

But at the same time I don't think this situation is comparable. The stuff Eteri and co is saying about Trusove is petty and in some cases a complete 180 from her previous statements. With Mirai, she herself was willing to admit that pre-Tom Z she had gotten somewhat distracted from skating in a way that made her seem lazy (cutting back training hours, being less committed to her training). So the warnings Tom Z got were probably legit warnings, even if they were given in a gossipy way.
 
For anyone curious, here is a baby Tuktamysheva landing a triple axel at 13:

youtu.be

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Triple Axel

Liza Tuktamysheva, 13 years old (17.12.1996), successfully landing 3A in practice at the MIshin's Camp in Pinzolo, Italy in June 2010. The oriental music in ...
youtu.be youtu.be

And she did lose it - twice actually - but she got it back both times. It just took a lot of patience and hard work.
 
Egor Rukhin is no longer moving to Pluschenko/"Angels". It was either a sincere mistake in media, or an intentional mis-info to intensify "leaving TeamTut treand" or he changed his mind.

He is now going to CSKA to train with Selitskaya, and Buyanova chief-coaching. I don't have all the finer details, but hopefully there will be an official statement soon from CSKA or Federation. But RAI sports news already picked it up and Egor is confirming it personaly.

Here is Egor's message to the Eteri and Team and fans and all who supported him.

Instagram

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- 3rd segment in the IG "stories section" - Egor confirms that RAI is posting about CSKA

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  • "There is so much mis-information in media, i want to clarify - i am moving to CSKA, Buyanova/Selitskaya.
  • I would like to express a huge gratitude to TeamTutberidze headed by T. Tutberidze and S. Dudakov.
  • Thank you to my friends, fans, and of course my family, for support and belief in me in this difficult period of time.
  • I also would like to wish endurance and health to skaters and coaches during these trying times affecting the whole world."
 
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