Medvedeva leaves Orser for Tutberidze

[LoopCombo]

You are assuming she will lose what tech advantage she has, not improve anything else, and that Bell and Tennell won't lose anything as they get older, which definitely happens as well.

Yes, I am assuming that. Based on how she was jumping last year, it didn’t look very sustainable to me. But she is still young enough that a coaching change might get her a better technique and kill my argument. Also, I agree with you that Bell and Tennell could certainly get worse as they age. I understand why the US fed is investing in Liu for the future, I just think that as it stands today, she’s no medal threat internationally. But neither is Bell or Tennell. And the Olympics are not today, so there is that.

 

[Skibean]

Alyssa isn’t even age eligible for seniors yet, so of course she’s not a threat.

 

[LoopCombo]

Hey, Anna Shcherbakova can still do most of her jumps so far this year, and I thought it looked like she might lose them as she grew. So anything is possible for these skaters. They are fighters.

 

[muffinplus]

Hey, Anna Shcherbakova can still do most of her jumps so far this year, and I thought it looked like she might lose them as she grew. So anything is possible for these skaters. They are fighters.

Many people were (and are still) hoping she would lose her jumps so that they can have proof that "Eteri technique" is unsustainable.

 

[Coco]

But- is it true she was talking to other coaches about a transfer before test skates? If so, I feel bad for Orser. He may have truly been in the dark

Not necessarily discussing dropping Order, but moving to different facilities and perhaps adding local coaches.

 

[Natanielle825]

Eteri and Team has NOTHING to do with Alina not skating.

This is obviously not true they were her coaches. She told them that she didn't want to skate and they either tried to encourage her or didn't bother.

Several people mentioned that she has a beautiful new SP which she is practicing. She chose to do Ice Age for now, and that is smart, it is a lot of money, and in-line with her education in Media/Journalism. She is doing things that she had no time to do before, like walk around Moscow at night, and look around (she's been in Moscow for years and never done this).

I hope Alina will be happy and successful. I'm talking about the way her last performance might negatively cloud her opinion of her own extremely successful career. I was very moved when Carolina Kostner skated at 2018 Worlds in Italy. The support and appreciation of the audience, and the dignity with which she skated and bowed despite many mistakes. I truly believe Alina could have had that moment at Russian Nationals had her coaches given her the right perspective.

 

[Ka3sha]

Daniil Gleikhengauz commented Evgenia's return in his recent interview:

- How did Zhenya Medvedeva's return to your group happened? What were your first impressions?
- How did it happen? After the test skates, Eteri said that she would have a conversation, a meeting with Zhenya. Then Zhenya came to our group. Or returned, let's say. We have three and a half weeks to prepare for the first stage of the Russian Cup, we will try to improve the form that she has now, but of course we will not make any big changes during this time. I hope that our progress will be more visible by the Russian Championship.

- Will there be any changes in the programs of Evgenia Medvedeva that were choreographed by other people?
- We will not change her music or programs. Another question is that inside these programs we will look at both entires and exit from the jumps. Somewhere we will add something, somewhere we take it away. But we do this throughout the year with all of our athletes, so there is nothing special about it.

- Do you have the opportunity to contact Shae-Lynn Bourne or Brian Orser's team for some advice on these programs, how best to show them?
- I think that we definitely do not need any advice on how to choreograph a waltz. We can handle it ourselves - and we have done it more than once. As for the free one, the topic is also well-known. There are all sorts of interesting nuances, findings - we will not touch them, but only add our own. So I believe this collaboration will only lead to the best.

- Did Zhenya initiate this coaching change?
- I can't answer exactly. I said as I was told.

- Did you take this news with surprise?
- Of course, in terms of how abruptly it happened. From the point of view that for Zhenya now this is probably the best thing she could do ... I hope we will prove it with the results.

- How has Medvedeva changed during the time with another coach?
- To be honest, I cannot yet say that she has somehow changed a lot. Will see later. You still see the same person. Yes, she became older, but in the training process she is as demanding of herself as she always was. Another question is that her form is still not enough for good performances, and it is necessary to gain it.
- You said that in about three weeks Medvedeva will have her first Russian Cup event. Has it been decided which of the events will be her second one?
- Honestly, I can't say about the second one. Probably, they will not change, Moscow was announced. It's just that she was expected to compete here (in Syzran), but her back aches, after the test skates she was given some injections. In such a state, it was simply impossible for her to come here.

 

[Wyliefan]

Another question is that inside these programs we will look at both entires and exit from the jumps. Somewhere we will add something, somewhere we take it away.

Random leg kicks, here we come!

 

[rustymuffins]

Hey, Anna Shcherbakova can still do most of her jumps so far this year, and I thought it looked like she might lose them as she grew. So anything is possible for these skaters. They are fighters.

Has Shcherbakova kept her quads? I haven't really seen her yet.

 

[muffinplus]

Has Shcherbakova kept her quads? I haven't really seen her yet.

She just did one in the free skate at the Russian Cup though it was a bjt short on rotation . (Though marked clean). Though she had been falling on them in practice

 

[muffinplus]

Daniil Gleikhengauz commented Evgenia's return in his recent interview:

Skating twitter is losing their marbles over his comments as usual.

This one was my personal favorite : "@Gleich, if you change anything in Zhenya's programs, then I will change your lungs and spleen in places"

 

[Tinami Amori]

This is obviously not true they were her coaches. She told them that she didn't want to skate and they either tried to encourage her or didn't bother.

They encouraged her a lot, and gave her 2 new programmes for this season. To not derail this topic to "Zagitova", here is an interview with Gleikh (in Russian, google-translates ok) where he talks about the issue, and says that they are ready for Alina anytime she wants to return full time, for now she still comes to practice and they work together as usual, although not as intense as they did during the Olympic season. (this is part of of the larger interview)

ÐлейÑенгаÑз ÑÑиÑаеÑ, ÑÑо ÐагиÑова Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð²ÐµÑнÑÑÑÑÑ Ð² ÑпоÑÑ

Даниил Глейхенгауз, хореограф группы Этери Тутберидзе, считает, что олимпийская чемпионка Алина Загитова еще может вернуться в спорт.

www.sports.ru

 

[Tinami Amori]

Daniil Gleikhengauz commented Evgenia's return in his recent interview:
- Did Zhenya initiate this coaching change?
- I can't answer exactly. I said as I was told.

Tarasova did

 

[starrynight]

Random leg kicks, here we come!

Or the random awkwardly lift your leg with one hand for no reason move.

Hey, Anna Shcherbakova can still do most of her jumps so far this year, and I thought it looked like she might lose them as she grew. So anything is possible for these skaters. They are fighters.

Interested to see how Shcherbakova goes. I found her jumping last season so incredibly distracting but I think that’s because I was always afraid her landing leg would snap in two every time she landed.

 

[barbarafan]

Or the random awkwardly lift your leg with one hand for no reason move.

Do you mean like a puppy just learning to lift his leg to pe*?

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

I will always believe, even with total lack of evidence, that the only reason she let Eteri in the first place was a knee jerk reaction to losing he Olympics to a fellow training mate. She could lose to Kaetlyn, Carolina, the Japanese, or anyone else and while she would be hurt and upset she wouldn't have left Eteri. She dominated the sport for two years and then briefly had to leave competition due to injury only to come back and realize she had been dumped by the judges for the girl she trained side by side with. She came back and handily beat everyone like usual EXCEPT her fellow training mate. That seriously had to hurt like hell and I would have felt exactly the same.

She felt betrayed because she felt Eteri (not on purpose mind you) played a major role in the failure of her biggest dream and Eteri felt betrayed because the girl she treated like a second daughter left her. I'm sure even at the lowest point of the last two years both of them deep down still loved each other and regardless of the reason why this reunion occurred both are quietly very pleased it happened. Maybe I'm being totally naive but I do believe that, or at least like to.

100% and I really can't fault her for feeling that way. But it's over 2 1/2 years later now and hopefully she can see the bigger picture. That Eteri isn't psychic and could not foresee Zhenya's injury that precipitated the avalanche ending with Zagitova as the Olympic champion.

yes, the fan wars are ridiculous. There is no real bad guy. The girls skate to win. They’re trained to win at any cost. And the coach wants to coach a winner. It’s just the way it is.

I've mellowed a bit in my old age (I cringe at some of the things I used to write about young women whose only fault was beating my favorites), but for whatever reason, fans really get personally invested in these athletes/teams to the point where you'd fight for them like you would any family member or loved one.

While Med lost the 2018 OG in the SP, (she technically won the FS tiebreaker), I do wonder if some of her feelings of betrayal had to do with strategic decisions they made regarding the FS. If she had swapped her 3f3t with her 3f, that would have earned her 0.43. Another small but totally possible change if it had been made early enough, perhaps at Euros, would have been to use her flying camel from the SP as her spin in one position in the FS and put her layback variations in a flying combination spin. This would have added another 0.5. So that's 0.93, which doesn't entirely make up for the 1.31 margin, but puts quite a dent in it.

I wonder if she was told she had a chance with her program as it was, therefore, don't take these additional risks. Because if she was, that wouldn't sit well. As it was, she skated better in the FS than Zagitova. Zagitova herself skated better in the team final, but magically had virtually the same PCS despite the ladies final being a more competitive field than the team final.

This is definitely a huge part of the picture. Zhenya originally had a FS for the 17-18 season to The Leftovers (IIRC) that, like Zagitova's, was nearly completely backloaded (all but a 2A).

Evgenia MEDVEDEVA - Ondrej Nepela Trophy 2017

Evgenia MEDVEDEVA Евгения Медведев in Ondrej Nepela Trophy 2017. Exceptional proof

youtu.be

Zhenya is an exceptionally strong-willed and competitive athlete and could literally see what she was up against every day in Alina. She surely wanted to give herself the best possible chance to win. Eteri probably felt (correctly) that the winning layout and formula Zhenya had been using for years would be enough for Zhenya to win the Olympics due to her PCS advantage (as the two-time and reigning World Champion) over a first-year senior with a recycled program. Keep in mind how important reputation is in skating, and at this point Zhenya had not lost in TWO YEARS. I'm not sure if the decision to keep Zhenya's content the same was decided before or after her injury, but either way it seemed like a pretty sound strategy.

The problem, of course, is that Zhenya had to take a few months off due to her stress fracture (?), and miss the GPF (where she also was the two-time and reigning champion). So suddenly Zagitova is the top Russian skater and got a PCS boost she never would have received if Zhenya hadn't had to sit out the competition. By the time the Olympics rolled around, Zagitova was considered basically on par with Medvedeva PCS-wise. Which was not the case, was never the case, and never should have been the case. But the judges had let the horse out of the barn, and there was no going back to marking Zagitova's PCS accurately and relatively after they'd been inflated for months.

It also didn't help that Zhenya's SP for the Olympic season was a shadow of the masterpiece she had the prior season.

In celebration of this joyous reunion, I went back and re-watched Zhenya's LP at the Olympics, to see if I had overlooked something (as it's been too traumatizing to re-watch before this). But it was actually BETTER than I remembered. (I think watching it in real time was so stressful that I just wanted to make sure she hit all her jumps.) I remembered a scratchy landing or two, but there weren't any, really. She sold that program more than it was worth (tbh), making Daniil G look like Peak David Wilson. She was giving me ALL the Anna Karenina Realness to the point I was waiting for a train to barge into the arena. Medvedeva's expression is simply PHENOMENAL. (This can never be stated enough; it's always been one of her strengths, even as a junior.) To me, it was BY FAR the winning performance, and rises above trivial things like flutzes or backloading or hand-me-down tutus.

Zagitova's program was brilliantly conceived to hide her weaknesses (plus fantastic & exciting music that makes you smile and fondly remember the legendary John Curry). And it was executed really well (minus the glaring mistake of her missing the first lutz combo). But objectively, her PCS overall were nowhere near Medvedeva's (skating skills and transitions roughly equal, although you could argue Alina's SS and/or transitions were better.. but the other ones were hugely in Zhenya's favor).

So this is a slightly long-winded way of saying that if Zhenya hadn't gotten injured to the point of missing competitions (and all other things remaining equal), she would have won the OGM. Just as God and Eteri intended. But poor Zhenya had no control over her body breaking down or Zagitova's inflated PCS, so her first instinct is to lash out at Eteri for 1. Not letting her do the hardest content she was capable of, and 2. The conflict of interest in Eteri coaching her biggest rival and the girl who she had literally just lost to at the most important competition of her life. But I honestly believe Eteri had a rooting interest in Zhenya winning and thought that would be the case. Of course, at the same time, it certainly didn't hurt to have a back-up plan in Zagitova as well. Eteri is nothing if not resourceful.

It was just a horrible series of mis-timed and unfortunate events and at the end of the day, Lady Luck favored Alina in the end. That's sports, really. A lot of it can come down to luck. So I can understand why Zagitova won, still not agree with it, but ultimately not blame her or Eteri. As a Zhenya Stan, it's sometimes easy to forget that this was Alina's dream to win the Olympics as well. She also worked really hard, and was able to battle her nerves and skate mostly clean when it mattered the most (something she hasn't always been able to do).

So it's taken a long time, but I've finally come to peace with the result. And I hope Zhenya has too.

 

[kwanatic]

But it was actually BETTER than I remembered. (I think watching it in real time was so stressful that I just wanted to make sure she hit all her jumps.) I remembered a scratchy landing or two, but there weren't any, really. She sold that program more than it was worth (tbh), making Daniil G look like Peak David Wilson. She was giving me ALL the Anna Karenina Realness to the point I was waiting for a train to barge into the arena. Medvedeva's expression is simply PHENOMENAL. (This can never be stated enough; it's always been one of her strengths, even as a junior.) To me, it was BY FAR the winning performance, and rises above trivial things like flutzes or backloading or hand-me-down tutus.

Agreed. When I decided to go back and score the top 3, Evgenia's FS really stood out as the best complete program for me. She was locked into character in her FS from the second the music started. She squeezed out every ounce of emotion/feeling/character she could in that performance. She was always a performer but she dug as deep into the well as she could go for that performance and it was gorgeous. I remembered that from the first time I watched it which is why I really felt she should have won overall. Alina's FS was an admittedly impressive technical fireworks show at the end but also kinda boring for the first 2 minutes. Evgenia's program told a complete story, beginning to end. To date, I think it's the best performance she's ever had.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Evgenia's program told a complete story, beginning to end. To date, I think it's the best performance she's ever had.

For several years before and to the end of the Olympics i was a huge Medvedeva fan and enjoyed many of her programmes. At that time i wished her to win the Olympics. Unfortunately "Karenina" was my least favorite, for many reasons. I was excited when it was her show programmes and very disappointed when she decided to covert it to her FS. I very much like her original FS which is debuted earlier in the season, and the dress.

In the programme itself, no matter how much Medvedeva "acted", i did not see Karenina. Sure, a lot of her movements/gestures corresponded to "elements" in the plot and typical lady behavior at the time. But what i did not see are "mood transitions" so well expressed in the novel: routine life - being madly in love - despair. I did not see transitions and/or contrasts. She moved, the mimiqued, she bowed and threw up and sideways her hands ... but there was NO story.

I was also very concerned that she chose to portray a character who is choosing to die because she can't handle a lose of a lover. That is not a strong character, but an emotionally weak and silly woman. Not something one wants to portray as a prospective winner of the Olympics.

 

[hanca]

For several years before and to the end of the Olympics i was a huge Medvedeva fan and enjoyed many of her programmes.

Really? Are you sure about that? It sounds impossible now...

 

[barbarafan]

Really? Are you sure about that? It sounds impossible now...

Maybe Med didn't bring Tinami flowers either.

 

[kwanatic]

For several years before and to the end of the Olympics i was a huge Medvedeva fan and enjoyed many of her programmes. At that time i wished her to win the Olympics. Unfortunately "Karenina" was my least favorite, for many reasons. I was excited when it was her show programmes and very disappointed when she decided to covert it to her FS. I very much like her original FS which is debuted earlier in the season, and the dress.

In the programme itself, no matter how much Medvedeva "acted", i did not see Karenina. Sure, a lot of her movements/gestures corresponded to "elements" in the plot and typical lady behavior at the time. But what i did not see are "mood transitions" so well expressed in the novel: routine life - being madly in love - despair. I did not see transitions and/or contrasts. She moved, the mimiqued, she bowed and threw up and sideways her hands ... but there was NO story.

I was also very concerned that she chose to portray a character who is choosing to die because she can't handle a lose of a lover. That is not a strong character, but an emotionally weak and silly woman. Not something one wants to portray as a prospective winner of the Olympics.

I thought her initial program was too far removed from her established style of skating. Nothing wrong with stepping outside of your style and trying something new, but there's a reason she decided to ditch that program and go with the Karenina program. That first one just didn't suit her. It was obvious they took a stab at trying to give Evgenia an "Alina-like" program with the majority of the jumps backloaded. The problem with that was the same problem there was with Alina's program, minus the effectiveness of the upbeat music and landing jumps on the accent that Alina's Don Quixote program had. Evgenia's program fell flat which is why they changed it.

Everyone perceives things differently. In skating it is difficult to tell a full story (complete with all of the details) in 4 minutes using only your body. However, a story can be told effectively through expression, mood and movement, and I thought Evgenia's program did that beautifully. The beginning is happy and warm (the dancing, a nice airy and openness to her movements), then there's a clear mood shift after the 3L where that happiness is gone; lastly the mood changes completely and becomes heavier and sad at the end. Evgenia's interpretation shifted through each mood of the program to reflect those changes. If you didn't know the story of Anna K. you could still follow the "story" based solely on her expression of the music.

Evgenia's choice to portray a tragic character isn't concerning in the least to me. She doesn't seem like the kind of girl who would throw herself in front of a train because of a guy. It's a character--she's playing a character. If that's concerning then what about all of the Juliets who skate to Romeo & Juliet? Juliet, like Karenina, kills herself because she lost her boyfriend. Alena Kostornaia portrayed Bella from Twilight, who basically tried to kill herself for a whole book because her boyfriend left her (jumping off of cliffs, recklessly riding motorcycles, approaching seedy-looking men at dive bars...). Bella is by far the worst female character I have ever had the misfortune to read about, but I seriously doubt Alena is a one-dimensional weak-willed whiny pathetic excuse for a heroine who is absolutely ruled by the men in her life (can you tell I effin' hate Twilight?). Sometimes skaters pick music to reflect their feelings (Gracie Gold's FS from last year comes to mind), but generally I don't read too much into music choices as some reflection of a skater's inner feelings or thoughts, especially when it comes to often used or classical pieces.

 

[VGThuy]

All this talk about portraying weak/strong characters reminds me of this pre-SLC LP article I read that compared Sasha Cohen skating to Carmen, Irina Slutskaya skating to Tosca, and Michelle Kwan skating to Scheherazade and saying how only Scheherazade stays alive in the end. Of course, we know how the LPs turned out. That article didn't go into Sarah Hughes doing "Chloe" but that LP was such a mix of stuff and was heavily changed from Nationals to the Olympics.

 

[Sasha is DIVINE]

I'm also amazed at how well Gleikhengauz and Zhenya were able to integrate COP footwork into the story, and how seamless it was. It is certainly not easy to do, and many times COP footwork sequences seem very: "Now here's me doing my mandated footwork sequence." Daniil should feel very proud of that program; it's easily the best one of his I've seen, although much of that is due to Zhenya and her amazing expressive and emotive qualities.

 

[Natanielle825]

Since we're talking about Evgenia...
The only skating I remember watching as a kid is 2010 Olympics ladies and men cuz it's so difficult to watch. Then I happened across Evgenia's 2017 World SP and I was immediately obsessed again. I felt like I had never seen anyone use their face in a program like that, or care about the moves in between the jumps and paid attention to every beat of the music. And the way she smiled before, during, and after the program made me believe that she LOVED to perform. Her quality in that regard was far above almost any skater at the time and that I've seen since. I find ladies skating especially to be hard to watch rn for many reasons. One of which is that I feel like I'm watching a parade of miserable, stone-faced children just jumping to feed their families.

 

[Lemonade20]

Since we're talking about Evgenia...
The only skating I remember watching as a kid is 2010 Olympics ladies and men cuz it's so difficult to watch. Then I happened across Evgenia's 2017 World SP and I was immediately obsessed again. I felt like I had never seen anyone use their face in a program like that, or care about the moves in between the jumps and paid attention to every beat of the music. And the way she smiled before, during, and after the program made me believe that she LOVED to perform. Her quality in that regard was far above almost any skater at the time and that I've seen since. I find ladies skating especially to be hard to watch rn for many reasons. One of which is that I feel like I'm watching a parade of miserable, stone-faced children just jumping to feed their families.

So true, there is too much emphasis on the technical side and not so much on the artistic side. A skater should be able to tell a story on ice, not worry about having to have a quad to do it. I don’t know, skating feels like it’s not going in the right direction. It shows in their faces, you can tell who loves it regardless of the scores and who is just there to do this for their country

 

[mjb52]

I'm still so fascinated by this. Is it still really that hard to get back into Canada? People seem to be moving all over the place under the radar. I know of at least two acquaintances who have moved to Canada in the past few months, one for a job, and not sure about the other one.

 

[marbri]

I'm still so fascinated by this. Is it still really that hard to get back into Canada? People seem to be moving all over the place under the radar. I know of at least two acquaintances who have moved to Canada in the past few months, one for a job, and not sure about the other one.

You can move for a job. There are exemptions. I would imagine in her case the mother was probably an issue as she isn't going there for any other reason then to live with her daughter and the daughter isn't a minor.
And if Med is required to compete at Russian cup and Nationals then that is just too much flying back and forth and a risk every trip if she is just there on a tourist visa. So I think it's the whole package that led to the decision to stay in Russia and find coaching there.

 

[dinakt]

I'm still so fascinated by this. Is it still really that hard to get back into Canada? People seem to be moving all over the place under the radar. I know of at least two acquaintances who have moved to Canada in the past few months, one for a job, and not sure about the other one.

As @marbri says- I do not think it is so much a matter of going back to Canada once, but that all qualifying events for the Nationals are happening in Russia. Flying back and forth might not be always possible, and is always risky. As Evgenia withdrew from the last Russian Nationals and did not participate in Europeans, she might not get an automatic invitation.

 

[Ananas Astra]

All this talk about portraying weak/strong characters reminds me of this pre-SLC LP article I read that compared Sasha Cohen skating to Carmen, Irina Slutskaya skating to Tosca, and Michelle Kwan skating to Scheherazade and saying how only Scheherazade stays alive in the end. Of course, we know how the LPs turned out. That article didn't go into Sarah Hughes doing "Chloe" but that LP was such a mix of stuff and was heavily changed from Nationals to the Olympics.

Well, the ballet "Scheherazade" isn't about Scheherazade herself, but rather about Zobéide, the Sultan Shariar's first and favorite wife and how she had an orgy while he was on a hunting trip with her slaves. She also dies in the end after her husband came back and furiously had everyone involved in the party killed except for his wife who then chooses suicide. It is this story that causes good ol'Shariar to marry a new virgin every day and have her executed immediately which finally leads him to Scheherazade who tells him all those stories and survives.