Medvedeva leaves Orser for Tutberidze

Ruby999

Well-Known Member
Messages
118
I absolutely fail to see what Tutberidze was supposed to do differently with regard to Zagitova or Medvedeva during the Olympic games. She didn't score either skater. Zagitova outskated her. She scored higher. Was the coach supposed to run across the ice to the judges and scream no :drama: The fans were ridiculous and stupid. Was Zagitova supposed to throw her skates and fall so Med could win???? She wanted to win as much as Medvedeva did and skated to win. Fan wars are stupid. There is a lot at stake for these skaters and they all want to win, but only one can. It was Zagitova sitting alone when she realized she won. I'm so tired of this argument. It's Sotnikova vs Kim again and it's tiring and boring. Only three skaters will medal in 2022 and only one will skate away with gold. There will be 3 Russians all trying for that medal. Maybe one will win. Maybe none of them will win. Deal with it.

I think it’s more of a perceived betrayal by Eteri from Medvedeva’s perspective, especially since she was 17 or 18 at the time and she’d just lost the Olympic gold so she had trouble seeing the bigger picture. That might be what people mean by a betrayal. I don’t see how Eteri could have done anything different either, given her commitment to give everyone their best chance. That was her job. Also, I agree Zagitova won fair and square — with her superior tech content and good programs, I don’t really know how the judges could have given the win to a skater with a flutz and without a loop combo over a skater with a solid triple lutz-loop, plus the backloading, which was really exciting and difficult. At the time, I was cheering for Medvedeva, but I understood why Zagitova won.
 

Weve3

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,301
I absolutely fail to see what Tutberidze was supposed to do differently with regard to Zagitova or Medvedeva during the Olympic games. She didn't score either skater. Zagitova outskated her. She scored higher. Was the coach supposed to run across the ice to the judges and scream no :drama: The fans were ridiculous and stupid. Was Zagitova supposed to throw her skates and fall so Med could win???? She wanted to win as much as Medvedeva did and skated to win. Fan wars are stupid. There is a lot at stake for these skaters and they all want to win, but only one can. It was Zagitova sitting alone when she realized she won. I'm so tired of this argument. It's Sotnikova vs Kim again and it's tiring and boring. Only three skaters will medal in 2022 and only one will skate away with gold. There will be 3 Russians all trying for that medal. Maybe one will win. Maybe none of them will win. Deal with it.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 This post wins the gold. Well said! Thank you! 👍× 💯.
 

Brenda_Bottems

Well-Known Member
Messages
535
No offense, but I find Alysa Liu and her underrotated jumps to be extremely lacking. The US may put her on their Olympic team, but I don’t even think she’s their best hope for a ladies medal. They have two superior skaters in Bell and Tennell, but they prioritize Liu because of her “quads.” She seems like a sweet girl, but the only real difference between her and the average Eteri girl with dodgy technique, besides her nationality, is that there is only one of her, thus: true she’s not as interchangeable.

I suspect the new coaching team will fix these minor flaws in Alysa's skating. At least she feels the music,unlike other skaters,who shall remain nameless. I will not disclose their names here, as that is not ladylike.

-BB
 

Japanfan

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I don’t believe in putting people on ignore. It is not healthy to ignore opinions that we don’t like. Maybe that’s why the society is so divided, because people lost the ability to accept that someone else may have a different opinion. So eventually people end up listening only to those who have the same opinion. That’s a bit sad in my view.

But there are a few people (e.g. trolls) who definitely merit being put on ignore because they contribute nothing to conversations, including offering a reasonably argued different opinion.

FTR I don't have anyone on ignore, but there a few posters whose posts I just skim or skip over.
 

Ruby999

Well-Known Member
Messages
118
I suspect the new coaching team will fix these minor flaws in Alysa's skating. At least she feels the music,unlike other skaters,who shall remain nameless. I will not disclose their names here, as that is not ladylike.

-BB

Yes, I think great move by Alysa changing coaches, and I would be excited to see her with a better jumping technique! There are a lot of possibilities that could happen between now and the Olympics.
 

feraina

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Messages
2,312
Yes, I think great move by Alysa changing coaches, and I would be excited to see her with a better jumping technique! There are a lot of possibilities that could happen between now and the Olympics.
If Medvedeva can’t maintain her technique with distance coaching, I don’t see how Alysa can acquire a new one. :( I really want her to succeed. But I just don’t see how things could possibly be working out for her right now. Who knows what’s happened to her existing jumps when she has nobody but a dance coach nearby. Medvedeva was very practical to acquire a local coach due to c19. Alysa managed to dump one somehow. Someone wasn’t thinking straight with that one!
 

Ruby999

Well-Known Member
Messages
118
If Medvedeva can’t maintain her technique with distance coaching, I don’t see how Alysa can acquire a new one. :( I really want her to succeed. But I just don’t see how things could possibly be working out for her right now. Who knows what’s happened to her existing jumps when she has nobody but a dance coach nearby. Medvedeva was very practical to acquire a local coach due to c19. Alysa managed to dump one somehow. Someone wasn’t thinking straight with that one!

I know this is a Medvedeva thread, but let me just say I had no idea that Alysa was doing distance coaching! That doesn’t sound great. I hope she can get to wherever her coach is soon.
 

AxelAnnie

Like a small boat on the ocean...
Messages
12,939
No offense, but I find Alysa Liu and her underrotated jumps to be extremely lacking. The US may put her on their Olympic team, but I don’t even think she’s their best hope for a ladies medal. They have two superior skaters in Bell and Tennell, but they prioritize Liu because of her “quads.” She seems like a sweet girl, but the only real difference between her and the average Eteri girl with dodgy technique, besides her nationality, is that there is only one of her, thus: true she’s not as interchangeable.
Bell? Superstar? I want some of what you are drinking.
 

Ruby999

Well-Known Member
Messages
118
Bell? Superstar? I want some of what you are drinking.

Not a superstar. Just a better skater than Liu. For me, the rising superstars in the ladies are Kihira, Young You, and Trusova. I saw all three of them live at Skate Canada, and I was impressed.
 

Natanielle825

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Messages
211
This move was shocking to me. But time heals and people forgive. I don't know how this is going to work out, but I wish her the best as always. As for the US ladies, Mariah is a nice watch but probably maxed out on jump potential. Bradie needs better programs, and I think this long delay in training might mean we don't see her successfully up her content by the Olympics either. Alyssa needs time to physically grow. She looks like a little girl on the ice because she is, just unlucky to be coming up with tall Kamila and Daria (who do also have better skating skills). There's a risk she'll lose her jumps but I hope they'll get stronger. I generally expect a 2022 podium to be all Russian(who knows who tho), but agree that Rika and Young have more potential to be challengers than Alyssa.
 

feraina

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2,312
I know this is a Medvedeva thread, but let me just say I had no idea that Alysa was doing distance coaching! That doesn’t sound great. I hope she can get to wherever her coach is soon.
Even worse. They never had any plans for her to be physically near a technical coach. His dad said she will still be based in the Bay Area (unrelatedly to c19). Her new main coach is supposedly lee barkell. Its the greatest self sabotage, one year before her senior debut and the Olympics.
 

Ruby999

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Messages
118
Even worse. They never had any plans for her to be physically near a technical coach. His dad said she will still be based in the Bay Area (unrelatedly to c19). Her new main coach is supposedly lee barkell. Its the greatest self sabotage, one year before her senior debut and the Olympics.

Maybe their goal is the Olympics after the upcoming games. I guess in a way, that might be better in terms of not rushing and pressuring her.
 

kwanatic

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,740
No offense, but I find Alysa Liu and her underrotated jumps to be extremely lacking. The US may put her on their Olympic team, but I don’t even think she’s their best hope for a ladies medal. They have two superior skaters in Bell and Tennell, but they prioritize Liu because of her “quads.” She seems like a sweet girl, but the only real difference between her and the average Eteri girl with dodgy technique, besides her nationality, is that there is only one of her, thus: true she’s not as interchangeable.

I don't think she's extremely lacking...just lacking a bit. Her good points are her presentation, musical connection, spins, content (she has the combos and the 3A), and that sparkly "it" factor. Most importantly that girl is consistent and a real competitor--she goes for it and doesn't back down. Those are great qualities. Where she's lacking is in her impact on the ice. She's tiny and doesn't fill the rink when she skates. The hope is she'll grow and look more like a young woman instead of a little girl, and that her skating skills will improve. She has a ways to go internationally but, due to her content, she's not going to be easy to beat in the US.

Also, I agree Zagitova won fair and square — with her superior tech content and good programs, I don’t really know how the judges could have given the win to a skater with a flutz and without a loop combo over a skater with a solid triple lutz-loop, plus the backloading, which was really exciting and difficult. At the time, I was cheering for Medvedeva, but I understood why Zagitova won.

Interestingly enough, I didn't agree with Alina's win--until yesterday. Literally, yesterday. I was working (or rather not working) from home and was browsing YouTube and Alina's Olympic FS popped up as a suggested video. For some reason I got the urge to finally go back and see what would have happened had I scored the event. Originally when I watched the Olympics I felt like the judges boosted Alina to a win and that Evgenia should have won. So I did my usual thing: grabbed a piece of paper and a pen, queued up the videos and scored the top 3 skaters. I debated whether I should do a blog post about what I came up with but decided I didn't quite feel like it...but I'll quickly summarize:

SP: Kaetlyn - Alina - Evgenia
FS: Evgenia - Alina - Kaetlyn
Final: Alina - Kaetlyn - Evgenia

As I figured it should have been, it was a much closer race between the top 3 than what played out in Pyeongchang, but Alina came out on top. She place 2nd in both segments but her superior BV/TES gave her the edge. Total score was 229 something. The real question was who would place second...and it ended up being Kaetlyn by the tiniest margin. Her score was very close to Alina's though (228). Overall Kaetlyn's PCS and great GOE on her elements made up for what she lost in BV and closed that gap. Evgenia, who I originally thought should have won, placed a close 3rd (227). Evgenia won the FS but Kaetlyn's SP lead helped her edge out Evgenia for silver.

So, for me at least, I'm officially in agreement that Alina won fair and square; however, having scored it, I think there's a good possibility that had the scoring been a little less bias, Kaetlyn could have had a case for silver. If I get bored I might go back and re-score it using+/- 5 GOE. Judging Evgenia's jumps, I really wanted to use that scale. I felt like most of her jumps were between a 2-3, while Kaetlyn and Alina's were in the 3-5 range; and Evgenia and Kaetlyn's spins would be in the 2-3 range, with Alina's in the 4-5. When used properly, the bigger range makes more sense. Maybe I'll do a blog post some day with my scores and a more in-depth analysis of my scoring.
 

attyfan

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8,712
I'm thinking Evgenia and Eteri may well have simply wanted to patch things up and restore a relationship. I'm sure that immediately after Olys, Evgenia felt betrayed -- she was a teenager, in a highly emotional time ... and probably wasn't thinking too clearly. Eteri may now have a better understanding of Evgenia's emotional state than she did at the time ... and Evgenia a better grasp of what was really going on.
 

Ruby999

Well-Known Member
Messages
118
Interestingly enough, I didn't agree with Alina's win--until yesterday. Literally, yesterday. I was working (or rather not working) from home and was browsing YouTube and Alina's Olympic FS popped up as a suggested video. For some reason I got the urge to finally go back and see what would have happened had I scored the event. Originally when I watched the Olympics I felt like the judges boosted Alina to a win and that Evgenia should have won. So I did my usual thing: grabbed a piece of paper and a pen, queued up the videos and scored the top 3 skaters. I debated whether I should do a blog post about what I came up with but decided I didn't quite feel like it...but I'll quickly summarize:

SP: Kaetlyn - Alina - Evgenia
FS: Evgenia - Alina - Kaetlyn
Final: Alina - Kaetlyn - Evgenia

As I figured it should have been, it was a much closer race between the top 3 than what played out in Pyeongchang, but Alina came out on top. She place 2nd in both segments but her superior BV/TES gave her the edge. Total score was 229 something. The real question was who would place second...and it ended up being Kaetlyn by the tiniest margin. Her score was very close to Alina's though (228). Overall Kaetlyn's PCS and great GOE on her elements made up for what she lost in BV and closed that gap. Evgenia, who I originally thought should have won, placed a close 3rd (227). Evgenia won the FS but Kaetlyn's SP lead helped her edge out Evgenia for silver.

So, for me at least, I'm officially in agreement that Alina won fair and square; however, having scored it, I think there's a good possibility that had the scoring been a little less bias, Kaetlyn could have had a case for silver. If I get bored I might go back and re-score it using+/- 5 GOE. Judging Evgenia's jumps, I really wanted to use that scale. I felt like most of her jumps were between a 2-3, while Kaetlyn and Alina's were in the 3-5 range; and Evgenia and Kaetlyn's spins would be in the 2-3 range, with Alina's in the 4-5. When used properly, the bigger range makes more sense. Maybe I'll do a blog post some day with my scores and a more in-depth analysis of my scoring.

I think your re-scoring would make an interesting blog post. The case for Kaetlyn winning the silver is compelling. I rewatched Kaetlyn’s Olympic routines again after she retired and wondered why she was scored substantially lower than Medvedeva and Zagitova. I am partial to big jumps. She did have a flutz, though. I can’t remember if either hers or Medvedeva’s were called at the Olympics.
 

kwanatic

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2,740
I think your re-scoring would make an interesting blog post. The case for Kaetlyn winning the silver is compelling. I rewatched Kaetlyn’s Olympic routines again after she retired and wondered why she was scored substantially lower than Medvedeva and Zagitova. I am partial to big jumps. She did have a flutz, though. I can’t remember if either hers or Medvedeva’s were called at the Olympics.

Thanks! I have all of the info--just have to see if I have the time to put it together.:)

Kaetlyn didn't get called for her flutz in the SP but received a "!" in the FS. She also stepped out of the jump in the FS which I think might have contributed to it. Evgenia didn't get called for hers in the FS. Whenever I do my little scoring projects I go by the protocols 99% of the time. So whatever they called a jump or level, I stick with it.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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30,609
I'm thinking Evgenia and Eteri may well have simply wanted to patch things up and restore a relationship. I'm sure that immediately after Olys, Evgenia felt betrayed -- she was a teenager, in a highly emotional time ... and probably wasn't thinking too clearly. Eteri may now have a better understanding of Evgenia's emotional state than she did at the time ... and Evgenia a better grasp of what was really going on.

That's all very well, but none of it changes the fact that -- by her own account and by the accounts of several of her skaters -- Eteri uses methods that are bad for her skaters' physical and mental health. That's all that concerns me here. I don't care about who won what at the Olympics and who felt which way about it and who brought who flowers and who snarked at who last and which commentator feels what way about which coach -- I care about the well-being of the skaters, period. My one hope here is that Evgenia will be strong enough to hang on to what she learned with Brian and Tracy and the rest of their team (including and especially her nutritionist) and that Eteri's methods don't end up damaging her. Again.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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16,024
While Med lost the 2018 OG in the SP, (she technically won the FS tiebreaker), I do wonder if some of her feelings of betrayal had to do with strategic decisions they made regarding the FS. If she had swapped her 3f3t with her 3f, that would have earned her 0.43. Another small but totally possible change if it had been made early enough, perhaps at Euros, would have been to use her flying camel from the SP as her spin in one position in the FS and put her layback variations in a flying combination spin. This would have added another 0.5. So that's 0.93, which doesn't entirely make up for the 1.31 margin, but puts quite a dent in it.

I wonder if she was told she had a chance with her program as it was, therefore, don't take these additional risks. Because if she was, that wouldn't sit well. As it was, she skated better in the FS than Zagitova. Zagitova herself skated better in the team final, but magically had virtually the same PCS despite the ladies final being a more competitive field than the team final.
 

VGThuy

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I feel like the team competitions scores all-around were lower by some way than the individual competition for similar performances. At least they were in ice dance.
 

barbarafan

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While Med lost the 2018 OG in the SP, (she technically won the FS tiebreaker), I do wonder if some of her feelings of betrayal had to do with strategic decisions they made regarding the FS. If she had swapped her 3f3t with her 3f, that would have earned her 0.43. Another small but totally possible change if it had been made early enough, perhaps at Euros, would have been to use her flying camel from the SP as her spin in one position in the FS and put her layback variations in a flying combination spin. This would have added another 0.5. So that's 0.93, which doesn't entirely make up for the 1.31 margin, but puts quite a dent in it.

I wonder if she was told she had a chance with her program as it was, therefore, don't take these additional risks. Because if she was, that wouldn't sit well. As it was, she skated better in the FS than Zagitova. Zagitova herself skated better in the team final, but magically had virtually the same PCS despite the ladies final being a more competitive field than the team final.
I think the betrayal part came as Med wanted to up her technique for the Olympics and Eteri said no, she did not need it to win. And Eteri may have really felt that way at the time. Alina's half empty program in the free was overmarked in PCS at least in choreography as she skated around doing nothing for half the program. So either Eteri was also surprised at Alina's PCS in the Free or she felt Alina would win but kept telling Med she was going to win so nothing rocked her goal of taking gold and silver in the Olympics. Then as she had so many injuries to heal and then to get back in shape and Eteri felt she should just stay home and make babies......wow. Anyways I hope Med sticks to what she has learned (and never goes back to not eating,,,,just having a choc.bar in the morning for energy) If Eteri insists she weigh herself she should make Eteri eat the scale. It might be Eteri wants to prove she can train an adult skater. I just hope she doesn't sabotage her.
 

Scott512

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Messages
322
I'm thinking Evgenia and Eteri may well have simply wanted to patch things up and restore a relationship. I'm sure that immediately after Olys, Evgenia felt betrayed -- she was a teenager, in a highly emotional time ... and probably wasn't thinking too clearly. Eteri may now have a better understanding of Evgenia's emotional state than she did at the time ... and Evgenia a better grasp of what was really going on.
Exacticly! Patching things up has happened billion and billions as The Rock would say times in human history! :cool:

The return of Zhenya to TT and EG is a new beginning! Zhenya will be more in control. Eteri will become more flexible. Losing Super Sasha and Princess Aliona this offeseason is beyond mind blowing and cut deep for the great coach. It was a huge piece of humble pie for her. EG knows she has to change. Having Zhenya back will be a real test for her as a coach and human being. I expect good things. But thats only if Russia doesnt get a second wave of C19.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,157
Scherbakova support group doesn't seem too happy with how things are unfolding. It seems Eteri is not going to the first Russian Cup event with her to stay and work with Medvedeva instead :) All of this is going to be so much fun :biggrinbo
If i recall correctly, last year Eteri did not accompany her 3 top skater to many Grand Prix events, and not to any of the Challengers. Anna, being of the them, went to several events with Dudakov and Gleikh, and so did Kostornaya and Trusova.

Tutberidze is not staying just for Medvedeva, since she has her star Valieva to work with, several Junior Boys and Girls, Morris and few others. She is also managing/supervising her new coach Polina Tsurskaya in her first months of working with younger groups.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,157
I absolutely fail to see what Tutberidze was supposed to do differently with regard to Zagitova or Medvedeva during the Olympic games.
Well that's the thing... Starting late Fall 2017 into erly 2018, Medvedeva's family first started to hint to Eteri that maybe Zagitova should be held in Juniors 1 more year. When Tutberidze obviously refused, Medvedeva's mother attempted to influence Tutberidze by speaking with various skating and athletic authorities, asking them to "talk to Eteri", and that did not work.

At the Olympics, in Kiss-n-Cry, a conversation was recorded (that never made TV), during which Medvedeva is saying to Eteri (among other things): (bitterly and sarcastically) "Congratulations... now you do have an Olympic Champion". Then shortly after she says "you gave Alina every trick/everything to beat me". I've posted this video several times in 2018, but can find it again, on request.

Medvedeva believed that all Eteri's loyalty should go to her, placing all others 2nd. That if Medvedeva's maximum was, let's say 8, then Zagitova should have been given the content to score only 7. Eteri felt that both ladies deserve equal chances, and Medvedeva was angry about it.

The return of Zhenya to TT and EG is a new beginning! Zhenya will be more in control. Eteri will become more flexible.

Russian Channel one already filmed and showed their first practice and few short interviews. Well, Eteri is yelling as always and waiving hands. And if she does not yell or get excited, means she is not interested... :)
 
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VGThuy

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This is why it's been common practice for top coaches to only have one top skater in each discipline (or whatever discipline they specialize in as most singles coaches wouldn't coach pairs or ice dance). To be honest, I don't blame Eteri at all for giving both Zagitova and Med the tools that they could handle at that moment in time that they needed to be OGM since they were both her students. It's just Zagitova simply had just enough to beat Med. Eteri couldn't control the PCS the judges gave to make Zagitova close enough there for her TES advantage to beat Med. I don't think it was Eteri's fault that Med got injured. Injuries tend to happen. I would only blame Eteri if she knew she was forcing Med to push past a known injury thus exacerbating it, and I don't know if that was the case.
 

Scott512

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322
Not a superstar. Just a better skater than Liu. For me, the rising superstars in the ladies are Kihira, Young You, and Trusova. I saw all three of them live at Skate Canada, and I was impressed.
Alysa also has one the best 3A's. So you expect a skater with multiple triple axels and multiple quads not to smoke Bell and Tennell? It will be 3 nats in a row for Alysa and I predict for Anna as well. :) The pressure on Sasha and Aliona will be huge and Anna never bothered by anythng will 3 peat at Russian nationals!
 

Tinami Amori

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20,157
Another news bit in this saga. President of St. Petersburg Figure Skating Federation gives an interviews. It's in Russian. He said that there was deal already made between St. Pete FSF and Medvedeva to start the training (sounded like with Mishin). Everything was agreed upon, Medvedeva and her agent, said "Everything looks great, i accept". The next step was a video conference to finalize some details, and then.... the president hears that Medvedeva asked Eteri to train her.

 

MacMadame

Staying at home
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40,638
Not a superstar. Just a better skater than Liu.
Not according to the judging criteria. And that's what counts when it comes to winning.

as she skated around doing nothing for half the program
OMG, I am so tired of people saying this. She didn't do NOTHING. She did spins and footwork. Spins and footwork are part of figure skating, not just jumps!
 

Ka3sha

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“We were ready to provide her the best working conditions” - noted Sergei Chopozov.

He explained that it happened exactly a week ago, right after the test skates in Moscow.
“I was returning to St. Petersburg, called her” - we talked. I said that I have a good offer and she replied: "It suits me, I'm ready (to talk)!" I contacted her agent, waited for our videoconference with them. We wanted to talk together on Zoom.
Not a word about Mishin or even that they have already discussed potential names or anything.
I highly doubt Mishin was considered as a possibility - he already has Liza and Sofia + newcomer Kolyada who also needs a lot of attention right now.

Also, here’s another interview with Chopozov for MatchTV where he said:
After the skates, I called Evgenia Medvedeva and told her snout my desire to cooperate and my readiness to make her an offer, said that we had a good project for her. I meant an invitation to move to St. Petersburg for training, but decided to voice it when we met. She said: "When you will be in Moscow, let's see each other and talk about everything." It turns out that I did not have time to bring her (Medvedeva) to our region. I had thoughts that in the future she would represent St. Petersburg as an athlete. Naturally, we would have created the best possible conditions for Evgenia. Now I can only wish good luck to the great skater.
 

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