Shooting in Las Vegas

misskarne said:
How about you shove your gun up yours since you love it so damn much?

Your supposed "right" to own a lethal weapon should not infringe on people's right to be alive. To go around without fear that some random asshole will start shooting. For children to go to school in safety and peace and not have to fear that someone will walk through the door and start murdering them.

And since you refuse to answer the question (presumably because you know what the answer is and it doesn't fit your narrative), the answer? Zero. Zero mass shootings in 20 years. Because what happened 21 years ago? Port Arthur, and a country sufficiently horrified that we actually did something about it.
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You're acting very irrational. Don't smash something by accident.
 
misskarne said:
Thing is, Tinami, if I was that irrational to smash something, only person I'd hurt would be myself. I couldn't just randomly start shooting. Why? Because I don't have a gun. Funny, that.
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Well, just case, lock up the kitchen knives too for now.
 
I had to laugh at the first response. Shoot someone who broke into my house in the middle of the night? What was I thinking?
Maybe he was just there to Rob me. I should have been polite and helped him pack. And whilst the criminal is there I should not worry about him having a gun in his pocket...he just wanted my stuff. An guns are never used in the commission of a robbery. So glad we got me set straight.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Maybe he was just there to Rob me. I should have been polite and helped him pack.
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Believe me, i've talked to the people (left leaning) who believe that people like you and i have "too much" and should let those "less fortunate" take our stuff. The conversation is not about "gun safety, not running around with guns on the streets, etc"... it's about home owners not having any guns, because it may endanger the safety and lives, during robberies, of "those poor hoodlums who are forced by circumstances to rob those fat cats."
 
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AxelAnnie said:
I had to laugh at the first response. Shoot someone who broke into my house in the middle of the night? What was I thinking?
Maybe he was just there to Rob me. I should have been polite and helped him pack. And whilst the criminal is there I should not worry about him having a gun in his pocket...he just wanted my stuff. An guns are never used in the commission of a robbery. So glad we got me set straight.
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An alternative to cooperating with a robber or shooting one (especially one who comes armed) would be to have a burglar alarm system, one that makes a great deal of noise upon an attempted break-in and automatically informs the police.

Since most burglaries happen in the daytime when the homeowner is away, that seems like a more practical solution anyway.
 
missing said:
An alternative to cooperating with a robber or shooting one (especially one who comes armed) would be to have a burglar alarm system, one that makes a great deal of noise upon an attempted break-in and automatically informs the police.

Since most burglaries happen in the daytime when the homeowner is away, that seems like a more practical solution anyway.
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Actually, my story started with me downstairs, and my burglar alarm (which is hooked up to the police and makes a whole bunch of noise) going off. I was then faced with: Going upstairs, and doing what? Hiding in my room?
 
missing said:
An alternative to cooperating with a robber or shooting one (especially one who comes armed) would be to have a burglar alarm system, one that makes a great deal of noise upon an attempted break-in and automatically informs the police.

Since most burglaries happen in the daytime when the homeowner is away, that seems like a more practical solution anyway.
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Burglar alarm can be disconnected. Also in earlier posts the issue is police response time. In remote areas police may not arrive in time.
 
I AM DONE WITH PERSONAL DISCUSSIONS WHY OWNERS NEED GUNS AT HOME FOR PROTECTION (vs. running around town shooting like mad men).

We're missing interesting news on the Las Vegas situation. Here are some.

The Good...
http://news3lv.com/news/local/jason...week-after-mass-shooting-10-09-2017-174159658
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/las-vegas-opens-healing-park-after-concert-shooting-1759809
http://news3lv.com/news/local/polic...into-las-vegas-shooting-fbi-launches-tip-line

The Bad...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/1...bags-as-resort-cops-differ-over-timeline.html
A Las Vegas bellhop may have unwittingly helped Stephen Paddock carry his arsenal of weapons and ammunition up a freight elevator Paddock accessed through a special hotel perk and into the out-of-view 32nd-floor suite Paddock used to rain down mayhem on a country music concert crowd.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ay-bay-las-vegas-shooting-20171011-story.html
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...s-police-timeline-for-las-vegas-shooting.html
However, Lombardo said on Monday, “Campos was encountered by the suspect prior to his shooting to the outside world.” Now it’s unclear what role Campos played in helping police locate Paddock’s room, and why Paddock stopped shooting. The revelation sparked speculation about whether police and hotel security could have responded more quickly.

and The Ugly...
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...ed-stephen-paddocks-house-in-reno-police-say/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-scams-to-exploit-victims/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-repeat-threatened-new-york-city-man/
 
Tinami Amori said:
I AM DONE WITH PERSONAL DISCUSSIONS WHY OWNERS NEED GUNS AT HOME FOR PROTECTION
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It is not a need, it's a want.

How nice, a healing park. I hope the victims and their families, and all future victims and their families find that helpful in their time of grief. I hope people can sit and reflect and leave nice messages...and then walk away and do something practical and longer term, so there don't have to be healing parks to commemorate people killed in mass shooting in every city of the US. Healing parks and commemorations are just a few steps above "thoughts and prayers" - a way to look like something is being done. They'd be so much better in conjunction of actual steps to change things.

@MacMadame, you should forward your list to your local politicians. Seems like they need some ideas.
 
I saw one report that said they arrested a Mandalay Bay security guard as an accomplice but no mentions of that in any other news source.
 
Like most people, I am wondering about the shooter’s motives.

I’ll risk and post my current theory why he might have done it.

I checked on his approx. net-worth - it is not much more than $3-4M. ~$500,000 in several properties, including his own house, and 1.5M-2M in savings/checking on the account; 2 single engine planes, but “used” they don’t cost much. He is labeled as “multi-millionaire”, but today 3-4M is good, but not that much, at least not enough to be called “multi-millionaire”.

He was a gambler, a high stakes gambler and obviously obsessed with thrill and money of the game…. which often means “any game for high stakes”… a challenge for money, does not matter what kind.

ISIS claims responsibility. ISIS (or any other similar group) has large sums at their disposal. Gamblers and people in general, who like to live on the edge or dangerously, are of interest to various unorthodox entities, as possible recruits.

My theory is that Paddock was lured into a very high-stake bet, 10M+, which is not a large amount to ISIS or a similar group. The bet was “take out a large crowd of people, we bet you can’t do it. If you can, then the stake is $XX-millions.”

That is why Paddock was researching other venues/concerts, regardless of “crowd composition”. And that’s why he aimed at the fuel tank (blow up, if shooting is not effective), and had explosives in his car “blow up hotel from the garage if shooting does not work out”.

That’s why ISIS can hypothetically “take credit” without any trace of “radicalizing him”. Paddock may not even know who the real betting side is, he may think it’s a wealthy man, arab or not not..

The “if” for me is “taking his own life” vs. “expecting to get away”. But if Paddock was on Quaaludes, he could have been given, in one form or another, “jihad pills” Captagon, which can pass for a valiume or other relaxer. Captagon gives people courage and reduces pain.

If anyone has any theories or ideas, it would be interesting to know.
 
Tinami Amori said:
I checked on his approx. net-worth - it is not much more than $3-4M. ~$500,000 in several properties, including his own house, and 1.5M-2M in savings/checking on the account; 2 single engine planes, but “used” they don’t cost much. He is labeled as “multi-millionaire”, but today 3-4M is good, but not that much, at least not enough to be called “multi-millionaire”.
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Tell that to poor people who are just getting by living paycheck to paycheck. My life would be radically transformed if I had 3-4M, and that is true for a lot of people.

And multi means multiple, in this case multiples of 1. So Paddock is a multi-millionaire.
 
Japanfan said:
Tell that to poor people who are just getting by living paycheck to paycheck. My life would be radically transformed if I had 3-4M, and that is true for a lot of people.

And multi means multiple, in this case multiples of 1. So Paddock is a multi-millionaire.
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Thank you for sharing.... i guess. I am not sure how your comparison of your and other people's net worth relates to "any theory about the cause", but now that you said it, what IS YOUR theory?

I'll sum up mine, would love objections and fault-finding. Paddock was a high-stakes gambler, played along side of very rich people, who are real multi-millionaires. He was an addict-gambler and liked money. He took a high-stake bet (my est $10+M) which required a mass murder.
 
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I do think his motive related to his gambling. But I think he owed someone big money and rather than get his thumbs cut off or whatever, he decided to go out in a (to him) blaze of glory.
 
set Tinami Amori said:
Thank you for sharing.... i guess. I am not sure how your comparison of your and other people's net worth relates to "any theory about the cause", but now that you said it, what IS YOUR theory?

I'll sum up mine, would love objections and fault-finding. Paddock was a high-stakes gambler, played along side very rich people, who are real multi-millionaires. He was an addict-gambler and liked money. He took a high-stake bet (my est $10+M) which required a mass murder.
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Well, first off, I don't think there is such a thing as a gambling addict. It is voluntary.
It does not look like (to me anyway) that there was something that "set him off". He had been stockpiling weapons for a while. And it appears that his attack was planned and calculated.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Well, first off, I don't think there is such a thing as a gambling addict. It is voluntary.
It does not look like (to me anyway) that there was something that "set him off". He had been stockpiling weapons for a while. And it appears that his attack was planned and calculated.
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Oh, i agree that it was planned and calculated and he had time to prepare. The supposed "bet" was supposed to give him time to prepare. He did NOT have so many weapons in the beginning. He started buying them in quantity closer to the day of shooting.
 
Artistic Skaters said:
What amazes me in people who say "you don't need a gun even at home", they
- a) don't give you an acceptable solution,
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Two fifty pound dogs & a baseball bat leaning against the hall wall. Over thirty successful years.[/QUOTE]

Well, that works ok if the intruder doesn't have a gun, and is small and slow. My Havanese is not going to do the trick. A German Shepherd would, if trained to attack on command.
 
Tinami Amori said:
Thank you for sharing.... i guess. I am not sure how your comparison of your and other people's net worth relates to "any theory about the cause", but now that you said it, what IS YOUR theory?
Click to expand...

It doesn't. I was commenting on one specific point.

Paddock was a high-stakes gambler, played along side very rich people, who are real multi-millionaires. He was an addict-gambler and liked money.
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AxelAnnie said:
Well, first off, I don't think there is such a thing as a gambling addict. It is voluntary.
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Gambling can definitely be an addictive behavior, and there is (or used to be) a Gambler's Anonymous.

Gambling can be addictive because it is exciting and can give people a high, especially when they are winning.

It's a behavioral addiction, other examples being shopping and exercise. There are some people who really can't stop doing either of those activities or gambling, which is one of the characteristics of addiction.
 
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snoopy said:
I do think his motive related to his gambling. But I think he owed someone big money and rather than get his thumbs cut off or whatever, he decided to go out in a (to him) blaze of glory.
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We're playing "theories", right? nothing personal, not trying to argue, just the "issues"...
If he owed money, but was able to transfer 100K to girlfriend to an overseas bank, and as we know (after police checked) had still few mills (1-2) on his account, which was NOT yet blocked, then he could: fly to another country, open an account, transfer his money and disappear from USA. He was 64, lets say he would live to 94, well 30 more years. 1.5 mills/30 years = $ 50,000 per year, which is not too bad, if he lived in a 3rd world country. But at least he would be alive, and his girlfriend with him.... He could have married her, and received Australian residence... but then yes, 50K a year would be a sad amount, but alive is better than dead? And also, why such detailed search of a venue to shoot at? Plus, the police alleges he was planning to escape, based on some evidence they have....
 
I'm sorry but your theory makes no sense. He had to know that what he was doing was a suicide mission. What's the point of taking a bet you know you'll be too dead to collect on? Not to mention ISIS takes credit for *everything*. So them taking credit is just par for the course and means nothing.

The theory that he owed money and wants to go out in a blaze of glory makes more sense. It would explain why there was no note explaining why he did it. If he was mad at something (a person, a group, an institution), he would want to make sure the target of his rage knew about it.
 
MacMadame said:
I'm sorry but your theory makes no sense. He had to know that what he was doing was a suicide mission. What's the point of taking a bet you know you'll be too dead to collect on? Not to mention ISIS takes credit for *everything*. So them taking credit is just par for the course and means nothing.

The theory that he owed money and wants to go out in a blaze of glory makes more sense. It would explain why there was no note explaining why he did it. If he was mad at something (a person, a group, an institution), he would want to make sure the target of his rage knew about it.
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At first i also thought he is on suicide mission, until the police alleged that the killer might have been planning to escape and had some evidence to support this theory. That changed my thinking as to "what would make him want to escape and live in hiding, and on what means". So money could be a reason.

ISIS only recently started taking credit for events they did not create. But more often than not, they are "the cause" directly or indirectly. If ISIS operatives decided that Paddock is a "useful idiot", they could have played on his weakness for gambling and aspiration to be "mighty and powerful like real big-boy millionaires". They did not disclose to him who they are, just enticed him into a bet for "crime of the century"... for the same sentiment as "Thomas Crown affair"... see if you can do it and make millions.

"Owed money" is still a probable, valid theory. But certain aspects of behavior do not make sense to me, especially police's info that he might have been planning to stay alive and escape.

We'll see.
 
A suggested bumper sticker for the Democratic Party.

" If You Like Your Second Ammendment, You Can Keep It"
 
Tinami Amori said:
Thank you for sharing.... i guess. I am not sure how your comparison of your and other people's net worth relates to "any theory about the cause", but now that you said it, what IS YOUR theory?

I'll sum up mine, would love objections and fault-finding. Paddock was a high-stakes gambler, played along side of very rich people, who are real multi-millionaires. He was an addict-gambler and liked money. He took a high-stake bet (my est $10+M) which required a mass murder.
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I don't think your theory is out of the question. He gambled between $25k and $1M in a single night, night after night. $3-4M wouldn't last long on a losing streak. But how would did he find out about this betting opportunity and how would he collect - was he going to leave the country?

I think this is more likely --
http://people.com/crime/las-vegas-shooting-criminal-profiler-motive-killer/
 
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