Russian figure skating news in 2023

[Moto Guzzi]

wrong thread

 

[Frau Muller]

I was reacting to DreamSkates's post #937 "Some Russians are good, yes, because of doping. That’s been proven over the years." which I should have quoted, for more clarity.
Aside from that, I agree with the above.

Utterly absurd. So Pavlova, Nijinska, Karsavina and their colleagues in the ballet world in the early 20th C were doping? Diaghilev chose the dopers to populate the Ballet Russe? And today’s ballet stars are dopers too (Zakharova, Vishneva, Osipova, Schklyarov, Kimin Kim)? ROTFL

 

[Kasey]

Utterly absurd. So Pavlova, Nijinska, Karsavina and their colleagues in the ballet world in the early 20th C were doping? Diaghilev chose the dopers to populate the Ballet Russe? And today’s ballet stars are dopers too (Zakharova, Vishneva, Osipova, Schklyarov, Kimin Kim)? ROTFL

He/She was saying that SOME Russians are good because of doping. Some Russians are good anyway. And you have no idea if any of these stars are doping until someone comes out with truth about it. So it's possible that it's even in the ballet world. Same goes for the U.S. ballet world. Any sport or athletic endeavor that works towards excellence has a possibility of being involved in doping. Whether it is the systemic doping we've seen in the past with the Russians or not, it's still possibly in there.

 

[Mell]

Utterly absurd. So Pavlova, Nijinska, Karsavina and their colleagues in the ballet world in the early 20th C were doping? Diaghilev chose the dopers to populate the Ballet Russe? And today’s ballet stars are dopers too (Zakharova, Vishneva, Osipova, Schklyarov, Kimin Kim)? ROTFL

Every athlete or dancer is taking something. They all deal with injuries, pain, overworking themselves and being under pressure, especially when they know they can be replaced with a younger person at any time. I think there´s even more of all this in the ballet world than in olympic sports. Like, do they test ballet dancers for doping and party drugs?

 

[On My Own]

This is a next level argument.

 

[emason]

Read Swan Dive by Georgina Pazcoguin, a former soloist at NYCB; she talks about her drug use and that of others at the company.

 

[Frau Muller]

Read Swan Dive by Georgina Pazcoguin, a former soloist at NYCB; she talks about her drug use and that of others at the company.

She’s not Russian. I mention only Russians in my argument. Title of this subforum: “Russian figure skating news…”

 

[Willin]

My sprog didn’t do doping - maybe that explains her results!

Well, she and her partner also weren't raised in the Russian system, so they certainly weren't as naive to the rest of the world as most russian skaters seem to be.

They're some of the recent Russian skaters I think I could safely assume wouldn't dope. They know the consequences of it on many levels.

He/She was saying that SOME Russians are good because of doping. Some Russians are good anyway. And you have no idea if any of these stars are doping until someone comes out with truth about it. So it's possible that it's even in the ballet world. Same goes for the U.S. ballet world. Any sport or athletic endeavor that works towards excellence has a possibility of being involved in doping. Whether it is the systemic doping we've seen in the past with the Russians or not, it's still possibly in there.

Even without doping doping there's other things the Russian system does for "athletic performance" that are unacceptable to the rest of us: weight/diet control (as shown in both ballet and skating documentaries), working kids extremely hard at their endeavor of choice from a very young age, choosing their endeavor over academics, separating them from their families to train, encouraging enough kids to do this that they have a huge talent pool to choose from, etc.

I guess one reason I doubted the doping until there was evidence was because they use all of those methods quite commonly - and while they certainly do work at least short term, there's diminishing returns in the longer term as we've seen with the Russian ladies.

 

[Lara111]

Well, she and her partner also weren't raised in the Russian system, so they certainly weren't as naive to the rest of the world as most russian skaters seem to be.

They're some of the recent Russian skaters I think I could safely assume wouldn't dope. They know the consequences of it on many levels.


Even without doping doping there's other things the Russian system does for "athletic performance" that are unacceptable to the rest of us: weight/diet control (as shown in both ballet and skating documentaries), working kids extremely hard at their endeavor of choice from a very young age, choosing their endeavor over academics, separating them from their families to train, encouraging enough kids to do this that they have a huge talent pool to choose from, etc.

I guess one reason I doubted the doping until there was evidence was because they use all of those methods quite commonly - and while they certainly do work at least short term, there's diminishing returns in the longer term as we've seen with the Russian ladies.

Figure skating is very popular in Russia and talent is supported that is the reason many kids are doing it. It is a different picture in the US

 

[emason]

She’s not Russian. I mention only Russians in my argument. Title of this subforum: “Russian figure skating news…”

You got all high and mighty about no drugs in ballet; this book makes it clear there are. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[puglover]

I recall well the 1988 olympics where Ben Johnson won the gold medal in the 100 meter, such a proud moment for Canada after a 60 year wait. Then two days later, when he was stripped of it for using anabolic steroids, it felt like such a national stain. I remember the headlines - "Hero to Zero", although there were strong suggestions he was not alone. Two big time winners for the U.S., Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones, never tested positive and as far as I know it was internal investigations within their own country and US Doping that caused their worldwide exposure. I certainly don't think a young skater should be shamed but I question why the blame appears to be assigned to outside forces unfairly targeting Russia rather than there are problems within their country that need to be identified and addressed.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

You got all high and mighty about no drugs in ballet; this book makes it clear there are. Sorry, not sorry.

There are drugs everywhere. Recreational and performance enhancing (both legal and illegal). I think the previous poster was saying that no amount of drugs will create an Anna Pavlova or a Maia Plisetskaya. Not that there are no drugs in ballet.

 

[Rubies]

There are drugs everywhere. Recreational and performance enhancing (both legal and illegal). I think the previous poster was saying that no amount of drugs will create an Anna Pavlova or a Maia Plisetskaya. Not that there are no drugs in ballet.

Maybe not, but there's Gelsey Kirkland and Rudolf Nureyev...

 

[kwanfan1818]

For Kirkland it didn't start with recreational drugs. In her memoir, Dancing on My Grave, Kirkland wrote that during the Soviet tour (in the '70's), she was "emaciated and seriously ill" when they got to Moscow. Other dancers told Balanchine, but she wrote that, since she had no understudy, if she didn't dance, the program would have to change, so she planned to suck it up. Balanchine, concerned about the performance, told her to go out and do anything, and the audience would love her, so she went into her dressing room, tried to rest and put on her make-up, when Balanchine knocked on her door and called for her. "With a face full of concern, he asked me, 'Dear, how do you feel?' I whispered, 'Not too good.' He put something in my hand saying, 'Take this, is vitamin. Take now. You feel much better.' I followed his instructions.

"To my surprise, I did feel better. I felt terrific. I danced Scherzo Fantastique and actually enjoyed myself, twirling through the steps...I did not recognize my feet. They seemed to be pointing in the wrong direction. They were attached to my body. They had to be mine. I ignored the strange sensations passing through me. When the performance ended, my feet continued to dance--they had a life of their own."

Predictably, he came by, asked how she felt, and when she said great, he told her to let him know, and he would give her some more "vitamins," leaving one with her. Predictably, she collapsed the following day, even more seriously ill.

"One of Mr. B's assistants approached me at the theatre and took me aside. He seemed to be worried, inquiring about my health. Then he offered a piece of friendly advice, 'Gelsey, it's really not such a good idea to take more of those pills that Mr. B. gave you. I mean, as long as you can dance without them, don't push your luck.’" (p96)

So, no drugs in ballet ever.

 

[Hedwig]

People often do not understand that it is not eigher or. Valieva was incredibly talented and insanely hard working. And she likely would have been a very good skater without doping as well. But we do not know how much of an edge the drugs gave her. But knowing the effects of doping it likely wasn’t minuscule either.

 

[olympic]

People often do not understand that it is not eigher or. Valieva was incredibly talented and insanely hard working. And she likely would have been a very good skater without doping as well. But we do not know how much of an edge the drugs gave her. But knowing the effects of doping it likely wasn’t minuscule either.

I wonder if one could draw a conclusion that she would have not been able to perform quads w/o the effect of doping.

 

[Ananas Astra]

Mama Kostyleva seems to be a skating mom from hell.
Russian sports media is overflowing with her interviews and statements about how Eteri kicked her and her daughter out twice and that even at "Moskvich" no one wants to work with her kid anymore.

IIRC Tinami warned us about her years ago already.

 

[coppertop1]

Twelve years old and doing extreme quad combinations. She won't be eligible for the JGP until 2025, and even if the age limit hadn't changed, she wouldn't be eligible for the senior ranks for a while. It's not exciting or interesting anymore to see these girls do quads. Russia, why don't you produce more athlete like Liza?

 

[Willin]

She has to be really bad if Eteri of all people kicked her out...

 

[rfisher]

On the contrary, Tutberidze's group is very selective and really doesn't deal with problem skaters. Andrei Mozalev has just switched to their group to work with Dudakov on his jumps and spins.

 

[Wyliefan]

There's only so much to go around, gotta save it for the really promising cases.

 

[caseyedwards]

Twelve years old and doing extreme quad combinations. She won't be eligible for the JGP until 2025, and even if the age limit hadn't changed, she wouldn't be eligible for the senior ranks for a while. It's not exciting or interesting anymore to see these girls do quads. Russia, why don't you produce more athlete like Liza?

The same thing was said of triples and doubles even. It’s not like anyone’s meant to do triples either

 

[Ka3sha]

Ilia Yablokov switched to ice dance. Rumor says that he is trying out with Arina Ushakova and Linichuk is to coach them

 

[Ananas Astra]

Ilia Yablokov switched to ice dance. Rumor says that he is trying out with Arina Ushakova and Linichuk is to coach them

At Plushenko's rink with Angelopol around? That will be FUN.

 

[Ananas Astra]

A new interview with Mishin: https://youtu.be/xzskbW2cAwM?si=o4QLsMhCwpKm4j2Z
He is just being his adorable self and saying many many wise things.
A true Russian coaching legend next to Moskvina. TAT, Eteri and the others can only line up behind these two.

 

[Ka3sha]

Yasmina Kadyrova/Valery Kolesov split, he retired dur to back injury and will focus on his studies, she is looking for a new partner

 

[caseyedwards]

Spectacular junior champ women

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

m.youtube.com

Margarita Bazylyuk

 

[Bigbird]

Should we ever waste time watching a Russian Ice Dance competition? I've never seen a pair with such a visibly poor female lead, Step/Bukin, score so high...is it that no other pair can be ranked higher than a Zhulin pair. I saw Sin/Kats skate recently and I gots to say is Zhulin a one trick pony or is it that that is the limit of their abilities? Speaking of Zhulin pairs, Shanaeva doesn't have an ounce of core strength in her rail thinning body...how do they plan to keep up these ridiculously high scores? On a positive note Narizny and partner are lovely...if only they could skate elsewhere....some really solid skills and artistry.

 

[Bigbird]

Yasmina Kadyrova/Valery Kolesov split, he retired dur to back injury and will focus on his studies, she is looking for a new partner

They were charming..all the best to both...Valery is a smart cookie.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Should we ever waste time watching a Russian Ice Dance competition? I've never seen a pair with such a visibly poor female lead, Step/Bukin, score so high...is it that no other pair can be ranked higher than a Zhulin pair. I saw Sin/Kats skate recently and I gots to say is Zhulin a one trick pony or is it that that is the limit of their abilities? Speaking of Zhulin pairs, Shanaeva doesn't have an ounce of core strength in her rail thinning body...how do they plan to keep up these ridiculously high scores? On a positive note Narizny and partner are lovely...if only they could skate elsewhere....some really solid skills and artistry.

Laughed when I saw the scores of the leaders RD. Looks seem to reign over good technique. Russian coaches and judges have completely failed with the ijs system especially in dance. They still are stuck with the 6.0 style.