Russian figure skating news in 2023

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olympic

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So you're saying Russians live rent free in your mind.

The question that will linger in my mind is will western countries in figure skating actually organize themselves in ways that actually let them scout and develop talent or will console themselves with thoughts that the only reason Russians are good is because they're dopers while they get complete shut out by Russians, Japanese, and Koreans.
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olympic

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So you're saying Russians live rent free in your mind.

The question that will linger in my mind is will western countries in figure skating actually organize themselves in ways that actually let them scout and develop talent or will console themselves with thoughts that the only reason Russians are good is because they're dopers while they get complete shut out by Russians, Japanese, and Koreans.
Well, there is hard evidence of doping in Camp Eteri, so there is that. The doping of Valieva and the tactics by the Russian Fed thereafter are by the way delaying the delivery of Olympic medals to teams from the whiny West like the US and possibly Canada.

Malinin and Chock/Bates would beat anyone in their respective disciplines that Russia could throw at them, so the USA has its own great skaters. Germany seems to have a great pair that is starting to blossom. And Adam Siao Him Fa on a good day I am confident would also beat any Russian man right now.

I miss Russian pairs. That was purely beautiful skating, but I am not a fan of spindly girls contorting their bodies with jerky take-offs and mediocre, disconnected choreography, regardless of the points they can accumulate. The men have very good technique and would have provided good final group tension at Worlds (still don't think any of them would medal), but all in all, I don't think there is a lot to be 'jealous' of ...
 

caseyedwards

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Well, there is hard evidence of doping in Camp Eteri, so there is that. The doping of Valieva and the tactics by the Russian Fed thereafter are by the way delaying the delivery of Olympic medals to teams from the whiny West like the US and possibly Canada.

Malinin and Chock/Bates would beat anyone in their respective disciplines that Russia could throw at them, so the USA has its own great skaters. Germany seems to have a great pair that is starting to blossom. And Adam Siao Him Fa on a good day I am confident would also beat any Russian man right now.

I miss Russian pairs. That was purely beautiful skating, but I am not a fan of spindly girls contorting their bodies with jerky take-offs and mediocre, disconnected choreography, regardless of the points they can accumulate. The men have very good technique and would have provided good final group tension at Worlds (still don't think any of them would medal), but all in all, I don't think there is a lot to be 'jealous' of ...
False. There is one positive test
 

Maximillian

RIP TA
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Trivial Pursuit - It's not a common name and there was a premier Soviet Gymnast named Tatiana Frolova who made the non-competing Soviet team in 1984.
And there was another prominent Soviet gymnast in the following quad, Natalia Frolova, who competed on the Soviet team at three dual meets with the U.S in the 1985-88 quad which were televised on ABC sports and also finished 3rd AA at the 1984 Junior European Championships.
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
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And there was another prominent Soviet gymnast in the following quad, Natalia Frolova, who competed on the Soviet team at three dual meets with the U.S in the 1985-88 quad which were televised on ABC sports and also finished 3rd AA at the 1984 Junior European Championships.
Figure skater Frolova is a lovely, mature skater who is coached by Rukavitsin which means she's doomed for quality programs. :lol: She should switch to Panova who coaches Sinitsina and always has nice programs for her skater. Rukavitsin doesn't focus on stamina for any of his skaters (see Makar Ignatov). Sadly, she's doomed to the 6th or lower spot in Russian women as her BV is just too low compared to the rest of the field.
 

DreamSkates

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So you're saying Russians live rent free in your mind.

The question that will linger in my mind is will western countries in figure skating actually organize themselves in ways that actually let them scout and develop talent or will console themselves with thoughts that the only reason Russians are good is because they're dopers while they get complete shut out by Russians, Japanese, and Koreans.
Some Russians are good, yes, because of doping. That’s been proven over the years.
 

Ananas Astra

Get woke, go broke!
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Some Russians are good, yes, because of doping. That’s been proven over the years.
Yes, because Russians are well-known for their complete lack of talent and the only reason they actually have a culture is because of doping.
No way Tchaikovsky could have composed "Swan Lake" without grandpa's heart medicine or Pushkin could have written "Evgeni Onegin" without using Meldonium.
 

PRlady

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You know, when a country has a record of doping that is so bad that their medalists are disqualified, they can’t compete internationally in 2 dozen sports and they are not even permitted to do their own drug testing, dragging in artists in non-athletic pursuits who didn’t drug themselves is pretty pathetic.
 

caseyedwards

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Some Russians are good, yes, because of doping. That’s been proven over the years.
Nonsense. This forum is so hateful

Russia is not compliant not because people are failing tests but because of some piece of legislation that wasn’t worded exactly the way wada wants it to be worded!!!

“The non-compliance in this case was a result of a non-conformity relating to national legislation that was identified during a virtual audit in September 2022 and not addressed to date.”

I can’t find this is layman’s terms.
 
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Primorskaya

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Sorry to derail the thread again, but just to redress the balance: doping in Russia is rife, it's impossible to trust them to have fair competitions, but saying Russian skaters were ever only good because of doping is just daft...
 

Hedwig

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, but saying Russian skaters were ever only good because of doping is just daft...
I don't think that anyone ever did.

But we just don't know how much doping is playing a part and we do know that the kind of doping that they are accused of does help with getting more training in every day so that is a huge advantage.

But I think that even without doping they would be very good and normally a treat to watch which makes the doping ever sadder IMO. I do not watch at the moment and am happy that they are banned for the two obvious reasons but I loved Russian skating before the doping accusations became too much to really enjoy them and of course before the war.
Now I just don't want to watch anything that can be used as propaganda even as minor as it can be. That is just because I would not be able to enjoy any of it while having a huge lump in my throat.
 

Miezekatze

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I really loved Russian women's skating back in the 1990s and 2000s.

But back then the Russian women (Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Leonova, Soldatova, ...) never had exceptional technical content or better or more difficult jumps than skaters from other countries. Quite honestly many of them were mediocre to "pretty good" (just like Russian men still are btw) and not the by far best in the world, like the propaganda machine currently claims.

Since Eteri's girls don't land quads due to good jumping technique or exceptional skating skills, it's impossible to appreciate what they are/were doing IMO, because in the best case their jumps are "only" due to bad technique, starving pre-pubgirls and harming training, at worst due to additional doping. IMO they've ruined their reputation all by themselves.

For me the last Russian female skaters who is comparable to the skaters I liked is Tuktamysheva, who obviously always managed to think and act for herself.
 

olympic

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I really loved Russian women's skating back in the 1990s and 2000s.

But back then the Russian women (Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Leonova, Soldatova, ...) never had exceptional technical content or better or more difficult jumps than skaters from other countries. Quite honestly many of them were mediocre to "pretty good" (just like Russian men still are btw) and not the by far best in the world, like the propaganda machine currently claims.

Since Eteri's girls don't land quads due to good jumping technique or exceptional skating skills, it's impossible to appreciate what they are/were doing IMO, because in the best case their jumps are "only" due to bad technique, starving pre-pubgirls and harming training, at worst due to additional doping. IMO they've ruined their reputation all by themselves.

For me the last Russian female skaters who is comparable to the skaters I liked is Tuktamysheva, who obviously always managed to think and act for herself.
^THIS
 

Willin

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I really loved Russian women's skating back in the 1990s and 2000s.

But back then the Russian women (Slutskaya, Butyrskaya, Leonova, Soldatova, ...) never had exceptional technical content or better or more difficult jumps than skaters from other countries. Quite honestly many of them were mediocre to "pretty good" (just like Russian men still are btw) and not the by far best in the world, like the propaganda machine currently claims.

Since Eteri's girls don't land quads due to good jumping technique or exceptional skating skills, it's impossible to appreciate what they are/were doing IMO, because in the best case their jumps are "only" due to bad technique, starving pre-pubgirls and harming training, at worst due to additional doping. IMO they've ruined their reputation all by themselves.

For me the last Russian female skaters who is comparable to the skaters I liked is Tuktamysheva, who obviously always managed to think and act for herself.

Even in the mid-2010s before the quad revolution you could say this: Liza, Pogorilaya, Julia, Evgenia - they were merely on par with the rest of the world and their wins more due to their consistency (and probably some minor home cooking with the judges) than anything else. They could be beat by others on a good day.
 

PRlady

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Even in the mid-2010s before the quad revolution you could say this: Liza, Pogorilaya, Julia, Evgenia - they were merely on par with the rest of the world and their wins more due to their consistency (and probably some minor home cooking with the judges) than anything else. They could be beat by others on a good day.
Med was supernaturally consistent until her injury. She had a great head for competition, Scherbakova as well. Certainly doping doesn’t create that; it is possible that by being able to train harder and longer, some drugs could contribute to physical consistency.
 

Evgeniafan

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Med was supernaturally consistent until her injury. She had a great head for competition, Scherbakova as well. Certainly doping doesn’t create that; it is possible that by being able to train harder and longer, some drugs could contribute to physical consistency.
I think Evgenia and Anna have an internal mental toughness. I don't think that can be taught. You either have it or you don't.
 

Primorskaya

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I don't think that anyone ever did.

But we just don't know how much doping is playing a part and we do know that the kind of doping that they are accused of does help with getting more training in every day so that is a huge advantage.

But I think that even without doping they would be very good and normally a treat to watch which makes the doping ever sadder IMO. I do not watch at the moment and am happy that they are banned for the two obvious reasons but I loved Russian skating before the doping accusations became too much to really enjoy them and of course before the war.
Now I just don't want to watch anything that can be used as propaganda even as minor as it can be. That is just because I would not be able to enjoy any of it while having a huge lump in my throat.
I was reacting to DreamSkates's post #937 "Some Russians are good, yes, because of doping. That’s been proven over the years." which I should have quoted, for more clarity.
Aside from that, I agree with the above.
 
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