Royalty Thread #11: Putting the "Fun" in Dysfunctional

[eusebius]

Satire alert:
Toronto’s expensive housing market forces Harry and Meghan to consider living in Barrie

 

[overedge]

WOW! Glad I am not living in your head.

What a stupid and insensitive thing to say, when someone is describing actual examples of racist things that have been said to their faces.

 

[starrynight]

I think everyone thought that as Meghan was a much older bride, she would be much more cautious about what she got herself into.

But she’s made the same misjudgment that a 19 year old Diana did. So age and experience hasn’t helped at all.

 

[becca]

While you're criticizing her for not trying hard enough to learn the ropes, or for jumping ahead with things before she fully understands how royals are supposed to behave.

You're also completely missing the point that she may never be able to adapt, and not for lack of trying.

I am more criticizing the whole if it is true I want to go and change everything and things like Progressive new role. If I am joining an institution that is that old I learn about it first.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what rubbed people the wrong way.

 

[overedge]

I am more criticizing the whole if it is true I want to go and change everything and things like Progressive new role. If I am joining an institution that is that old I learn about it first.

And you are still completely missing the point that it may never be possible to learn enough about it to successfully fit into it.

 

[Japanfan]

I am at the uproar around Megan and the view that her and Harry's decision to relocate to Canada reflects some terrible failure on their part. The woman can't win for losing.

All people make mistakes or decisions that will be questioned by some. All people will be seen to have erred if their lives are held up to the level of scrutiny that Megan's is.

 

[canbelto]

Another thing about “fitting in”: I really think Meghan maybe needed Doria to stay a bit and help her out. It isnt talked about much but Kate still takes breaks and goes home to her parents. They discreetly go on vacations. Even Diana had her sisters. Plus from all accounts William sensed the tension between his parents quickly and grew to be Diana’s support system. I think if you marry into the BRF you need a support system for when things get too overwhelming. Archie is still an infant. Meghan needed somebody.

I could be wrong but I don’t think Harry is the best person to unwind with either. He seems very intense and has a temper.

 

[Judy]

Since I was working as a substitute the last thing I cared about was dread Locks sneakers hoodies. I just wanted the kids to not act out so that the entire class could learn.

Plus a lot of those kids were poor and didn’t have much so the last thing I would ever do is criticize their clothes or hair

I always thought Meghan had gorgeous hair.

For the record I am not saying Meghan should become someone she is not. But if you are going to chose to represent a country as part of their royal family their should be some level of learning the culture and at very least refraining from things like I want to be a disrupter.

Oh the kids in Canada can wear their hair the way they like. I’m in Ottawa so it’s very multi-cultural which I am so used to.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

The irony is that the person who was born to it is the one who couldn't fit in anymore. Meghan has been lovely and gracious and worked very hard, while Harry has appeared far more uncomfortable than she has. He has hated the press forever and I think he did little to nothing to help her deal with the scrutiny because he can not deal with it rationally himself.

 

[canbelto]

This is getting OT but I can't tell you the fury I've had towards admins who punish kids for small dress code infractions. I've even said to them before "Do you want them to learn or do you want them to have black socks instead of blue socks?" I work in schools where many kids are living in homeless shelters. It's mind-boggling how insensitive some admin can be about them literally not being able to follow the dress code because, you know, clothes got stolen at the shelter last night.

 

[becca]

Oh the kids in Canada can wear their hair the way they like. I’m in Ottawa so it’s very multi-cultural which I am so used to.

Yeah most of those kids in the school were African American and had African American teachers no one was critizing hair. Plus it seemed like a lot of the parents liked uniforms. If your poor and you don’t have a lot of money for fancy clothes uniforms are an equalizer.

I will never forget one moment when I helped a kid tie his shoes and noticed his pants were way to big. The kid gave me a look of it is what it is. Don’t judge me. I just smiled at him and helped him tie his shoes. It was clear to me that was what he could afford can’t imagine critizing a kid like that.

My biggest thing about everyone is racist is we all have our prejudices. But it’s problematic if we don’t attempt to cast them aside and attempt to get to know people for who they are no one picks skin color.

If we assume no good will.... Well we end up making things worse. I specifically said bad behavior and yet you have people automatically assuming it has to do with things like hair.

 

[Judy]

Yeah most of those kids in the school were African American and had African American teachers no one was critizing hair. Plus it seemed like a lot of the parents liked uniforms. If your poor and you don’t have a lot of money for fancy clothes uniforms are an equalizer.
I will never forget one moment when I helped a kid tie his shoes and noticed his pants were way to big. The kid gave me a look of it is what it is. Don’t judge me. I just smiled at him and helped him tie his shoes. It was clear to me that was what he could afford can’t imagine critizing a kid like that.

Absolutely. Our public schools run breakfasts so kids can eat. It’s available to all the kids though so nobody feels singled out.

 

[becca]

Absolutely. Our public schools run breakfasts so kids can eat. It’s available to all the kids though so nobody feels singled out.

Yes many kids school lunches and breakfasts are only meals they get.

 

[mag]

The UK have school uniforms.

School uniforms are also designed to fit certain body types. The world is made up of a vast array of varied and different people. I don’t understand why we feel the need to try to make people conform. I am a believer in learn the rules so you can successfully break them, and I don’t think Meghan spent quite enough time on the first part. That said, I think Harry did her a disservice. IMHO they should have lived together with Meghan doing nothing official (she could spend Christmas with him but not go to church) for another 6 months and marry in the fall. That would have given her time to settle in and decompress. To get the lay of the land and decide for herself if this was the life she wanted. Love often isn’t enough. I have no idea if they would have ended up married or not, but I do think it would have been fairer to Meghan. I realize that is not what they wanted, but cooler heads should have prevailed. Instead of telling Harry he was moving too fast, William could have spoken to the Charles and had Eugenie’s wedding be the excuse.

@Japanfan I don’t think Harry and Meghan moving is sign of failure. I think the way they have gone about it is not great. The fact that they appear to be moving because they are unhappy is unfortunate. I know there are a lot of people who say family isn’t everything, and they are right, it isn’t. It is a bit like breast feeding. Formula is fine and you do what you have to do to survive, but breast milk is still better. It doesn’t make you a bad mother if you can’t or choose not to, but nutritionally and environmentally it is better. Same with family. Sometimes circumstances are such that you will not have a family around to support you. $hit happens and you make the best of it. That said, a lovely supportive family can make a huge difference. Kate being a great example of that. Meghan didn’t have that same support. Again, it is not a judgement it is just the hand life deals you.

 

[AxelAnnie]

The video of Harry pressing Bob Iger to give Megan a Disney voice-over job is so awkward it is cringeworthy. Iger looks like he can't wait to get out of there.

That is just a thousand times wrong, demeaning and classless.

The Royal Family is beloved and admired. They hold themselves and are held to a higher standard. They are a tradition of iconic proportions. I can understand Harry wanting to step back from the limelight. I can understand Meghan wanting freedom. I do not understanding Harry pitching his wife to do voice overs.............that is certainly not out of the limelight, which Harry claims to want, and degrading to the very ideals of his heritage.

Someone up thread asked why the address by Queen Elizabeth (when she so eloquently spoke about her duty) was part of this discussion. It IS this discussion. What the Queen said in that address is what being Royal is about. Not about self, but about duty to ones country.

The entire matter makes no sense to me. Each step they have taken (for example not taking the picture on the steps of the hospital) has garnered more attention and sensation than if they had just taken the damn picture.

Words have consequences, and so do actions. For the life of me I cannot figure out why or how Harry rationalizes his behavior and the impact it has and will have on his Gran and Prince Phillip. It did NOT have to be this way. Have a little compassion and respect for your elders, you family and your country.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I am at the uproar around Megan and the view that her and Harry's decision to relocate to Canada reflects some terrible failure on their part. The woman can't win for losing.

All people make mistakes or decisions that will be questions for some (not saying this is the case for Megan). All people will be seen to have erred if their lives are held up to the level of scrutiny that Megan's is.

A mistake is "I bought the wrong kind of butter". Meghan is not young (not a blushing Diana). She has been married before. She has the knowledge and life experience to be responsible for her decision to marry into the Royal family.

If some people hold her in low regard, maybe she should look in the mirror and see what she could do to correct her image. Maybe not flying off to sit center court to watch her friend play tennis. The life of a royal is not supposed to be a Disney Movie (pun intended). It is a life of service. For that service there are tons of rewards. But it is not a life of I, I, I.

I just hope Harry survives all this. I think he has a very tender and bruised heart.

 

[overedge]

@AxelAnnie Harry didn't choose to be born into the royal family. Your judgemental attitude would be more justifiable if he was in a job that he had taken of his own free will.

 

[MacMadame]

I am a believer in learn the rules so you can successfully break them, and I don’t think Meghan spent quite enough time on the first part.

How much time would be enough? It's been over two years since they announced their engagement. They've been married for almost two years.

 

[caseyedwards]

Britain’s too racist!! Better move to a country where the prime minister wears blackface and won in a landslide!!

 

[mella]

Firstly apologies this turned into such a long post.

I reiterate so much of what @canbelto and @overdue have said about snobbery and covert and casual racism in the UK.

I have been told I should put a photo on my CV so that people are not "surprised" when I walk into the interview. Omg a black woman in a predominantly white male profession however shall we deal with this... probably by not giving an interview to someone if you know "what" they are at the paper sift phase because of a photo! I grew up being told if I worked hard and excelled (granted with the old adage of having to be twice as good to be considered half as good) that the world was my oyster. That day I began to be introduced to the reality of racism in the UK.

There is no right answer to the question where are you from. If I say London quite often there is that awkward shuffling of feet and movement of the eyes followed by... Oh I mean where are you from originally. If I were to say the place that my family are from originally to the original question (when it's clear as day from my accent that I've never lived anywhere other than London) I'm wrong for not owning being British. A good public example of how that attitude works is the French Ambassador's reaction to Trevor Noah's joke following France winning the football world cup.

Critisms of black peeople's hair in professional and academic environments is rife...

My section of the industry isn't (thankfully) particularly classist but unknown middle aged white men who say they have struggled due to class barriers in other parts of the industry. Other industries and parts of British society are much worse than my little part of the world!

I say all of this for context because given that this is how british society still functions in many places "on the ground" it's ridiculous to think that it doesn't exist in the royal family and other core institutions. You don't have to have someone calling you by the "N" word to understand there is an issue.

Examples there is an issue in the Royal family:

- Andrew recently reported to have used racist language is one gauge.

- Prince Phillip has made openly, casually racist comments in public on more than occasion - the british media and public pay lip service to it being inappropriate then promptly awkwardly laugh it off.

But the broach worn by one of the minor royals a couple of years ago says it all really. She knew she could wear it to lunch at the palace because she is amongst friends there - a subtle(ish) but pointed statement. I think if there was a clear anti rascist sentiment/value in that family that sort of thing would not happen (at that sort of event) because everyone would know it was frowned on/not accepted. I expect she also assumed Meghan would not (immediately) understand the implications of said broach - therefore she and her friends can snigger at her black, American ignorance in addition to delivering the racist slight. So deliciously covert and passive aggressive... So very very "British".

That is just a thousand times wrong, demeaning and classless.

The Royal Family is beloved and admired. They hold themselves and are held to a higher standard.

oh puh-lease! Prince Andrew, Sarah Fergason, Prince Charles, Princess Diana, Prince Edward, Sophie Wessex have all found themselves embroiled in scandals worse than doing a voiceover and donating the fee to an animal charity. Or even Harry speaking about his wife's interest in such an endeavour.

In the case of Edward, Andrew and Sophie they have been involved in scandals that revolved around earning money off the back of their status.

I leave SF off that first list as she was no longer technically a Royal when caught literally selling access to Andrew!

What Meghan has reportedly done with this Disney thing is no worse or different and it appears that in this instance at least there is no attempt at personal financial gain. And it gets nowhere close in terms classlessness to the personal (not financial) scandals of Andrew, Sarah, Charles, Diana and Camilla!

There is no "higher standard" for the BRF and I don't understand why anyone continues to promote or buy into the idea that there is. With the exception (as far as I have observed) of the Queen herself, they do what they like when they like for the most part and then try to hide what they know is wrong or (in the case of the younger Harry) blatantly flaunt it.

They are our best export because they are the best and longest running soap opera on the planet. Not because they strive toward, achieve or are held to some mythical higher standard.

 

[Lorac]

Princes William and Harry have issued a joint statement regarding what they claim is a false and inflammatory report in The Times:

Harry and William brand 'false' story about their relationship 'offensive'

Really some of these 'sources' who seek to speak on Harry and Meghan's behave aren't doing Harry and Meghan any favours and I am glad that Harry has issued this joint statement with William denying this.

 

[MsZem]

Princes William and Harry have issued a joint statement regarding what they claim is a false and inflammatory report in The Times:

Harry and William brand 'false' story about their relationship 'offensive'

Good for them.

I had a somewhat unconventional childhood, and the only person who can really get what it was like is my brother. Obviously William and Harry's upbringing was much more unusual than mine, and I'm sure that there are some things that only the two of them can understand and relate to. I hope that no matter the circumstances or how challenging this transition might be, their bond as brothers will stay strong.

 

[skategal]

I think everyone thought that as Meghan was a much older bride, she would be much more cautious about what she got herself into.

But she’s made the same misjudgment that a 19 year old Diana did. So age and experience hasn’t helped at all.

They do say that “Love is blind.”

 

[Oreo]

Exhibit A: whenever I show people my cat or dog I can't tell you how many times people have said "but I thought Chinese people eat cats and dogs."

Let’s expand here... my white stepson is happily married to a Japanese woman and they live in Japan. He also speaks fluent Japanese. He constantly overhears racist remarks behind his back. For example, a couple of outwardly sweet looking women were going off on how he looked like a monkey because he’s got some body hair (very little, actually), and that’s not the worst of it. It’s been going on for years. Sometimes he calls them up short in Japanese to shame them. Even the government doesn’t recognize his last name as the last name of his kids. They have to use their mom’s maiden name. There was terrible racism from the extended inlaws at their wedding. But you know what? He gets on with it. He loves living in Japan and the Japanese, and has the wisdom to realize that most people don’t think like this.

But back to Meghan... I really, really liked her when she first came on the scene and thought Harry was definitely marrying up. I started having my doubts at the time of the wedding and now think this marriage was a terrible mistake. I soured on it because of the hypocrisy, the ghosting of past friends/family, the incessant whining, the entitlement, and the treatment of people behind the scenes—much of which has never hit the tabloid media. None of this has anything to do with racism.

 

[canbelto]

But back to Meghan... I really, really liked her when she first came on the scene and thought Harry was definitely marrying up. I started having my doubts at the time of the wedding and now think this marriage was a terrible mistake. I soured on it because of the hypocrisy, the ghosting of past friends/family, the incessant whining, the entitlement, and the treatment of people behind the scenes—much of which has never hit the tabloid media. None of this has anything to do with racism.

@Oreo that is such a false equivalency. White people can never "understand" the experience of racism. They can understand prejudice, but not racism, because the white race is the race to which all others are compared (and inevitably considered inferior). I'll never remember how in 7th grade history the teacher said "Eastern culture is inferior. Western culture is superior."

So if the Japanese are hostile to white people it's after many brutal years of oppression by white people. That's prejudice, not racism.

I also don't believe people will ever become less racist. I think laws can be passed to make racism more difficult for people, and there can be policies within companies that fire people for egregious cases of racism (like the radio personality who called Archie a chimpanzee), but the racism will always be there and it will never get better.

Also I hate to say it but "entitlement" and "hypocrisy" are two of the words most lobbed at women of color. It's like Michelle Obama being called a gorilla and also "hypocritical" and "entitled" even though she was none of those things.

 

[becca]

@Oreo that is such a false equivalency. White people can never "understand" the experience of racism. They can understand prejudice, but not racism, because the white race is the race to which all others are compared (and inevitably considered inferior). I'll never remember how in 7th grade history the teacher said "Eastern culture is inferior. Western culture is superior."

So if the Japanese are hostile to white people it's after many brutal years of oppression by white people. That's prejudice, not racism.

I also don't believe people will ever become less racist. I think laws can be passed to make racism more difficult for people, and there can be policies within companies that fire people for egregious cases of racism (like the radio personality who called Archie a chimpanzee), but the racism will always be there and it will never get better.

Also I hate to say it but "entitlement" and "hypocrisy" are two of the words most lobbed at women of color. It's like Michelle Obama being called a gorilla and also "hypocritical" and "entitled" even though she was none of those things.

Japan has a history of racial discrimination against other races not just whites. I am sorry racial discrimination is not just a white person thing. Look at Rwanda and yes racism has gotten better. Look at Jim Crow and where are now do you think 100 years from now Meghan would have married into the royal family.

 

[canbelto]

@becca Jim Crow were LAWS that were changed. Laws changed. But I fully believe that had they not change, many people would still be 100% in favor of segregation.

So as I said, laws against racism change. But I don't believe people become less racist. It just becomes HARDER to be overtly racist.

For instance, I believe that if it was LAW that Royals could not marry non-whites, a large majority would be in favor of it.

 

[becca]

@becca Jim Crow were LAWS that were changed. Laws changed. But I fully believe that had they not change, many people would still be 100% in favor of segregation.

So as I said, laws against racism change. But I don't believe people become less racist. It just becomes HARDER to be overtly racist.

For instance, I believe that if it was LAW that Royals could not marry non-whites, a large majority would be in favor of it.

I am white. I don’t know any white person who wants segregation. I would be careful about assuming what people who you don’t know think.

Most people understand racism is wrong.

 

[taf2002]

For the record I am not saying Meghan should become someone she is not. But if you are going to chose to represent a country as part of their royal family their should be some level of learning the culture and at very least refraining from things like I want to be a disrupter.

Meghan did not choose to represent a country. She chose a man to get married to. Big difference. And IMO she made a huge effort but @mag is right that whatever she did would not be enough. There's been plenty of reports that Camilla was not in favor of Kate because her background wasn't upper-crust enough. What do you think she felt about Meghan? The offensive brooch thing makes it clear that Camilla isn't the only family member with that attitude.

 

[becca]

Meghan did not choose to represent a country. She chose a man to get married to. Big difference. And IMO she made a huge effort but @mag is right that whatever she did would not be enough. There's been plenty of reports that Camilla was not in favor of Kate because her background wasn't upper-crust enough. What do you think she felt about Meghan? The offensive brooch thing makes it clear that Camilla isn't the only family member with that attitude.

She knew marrying him meant representing a country. Other girls like Chelsy broke up with him because they didn’t want that.